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[Phantast2k]

Defense Secretary Mattis issues new ultimatum to NATO allies on defense spending - The Washington Post

BRUSSELS — Defense Secretary Jim Mattis issued an ultimatum Wednesday to allies in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), warning that if they do not boost their defense spending to goals set by the alliance, the United States may alter its relationship with them.

“I owe it to you all to give you clarity on the political reality in the United States, and to state the fair demand from my country’s people in concrete terms,” Mattis said. “America will meet its responsibilities, but if your nations do not want to see America moderate its commitment to the alliance, each of your capitals needs to show its support for our common defense.”

The statements came during a closed-doors meeting with defense ministers from other NATO countries, and provided to media traveling with the defense secretary to Brussels.

(...)

That impatience, Mattis added, is now a “governmental reality.”

“No longer can the American taxpayer carry a disproportionate share of the defense of western values,” Mattis said. “Americans cannot care more for your children’s security than you do. Disregard for military readiness demonstrates a lack of respect for ourselves, for the alliance, and for the freedoms we inherited, which are now clearly threatened.”

Currently, just five of NATO’s 28 countries spend at least 2 percent on defense: the United Kingdom, Estonia, Poland, Greece and the United States. Major members that do not include France (1.78 percent), Turkey (1.56), Germany (1.19), Italy (1.11) and Canada (.99), according to NATO figures.

(...)

Mattis’s ultimatum could have wide-ranging implications in Europe, but the biggest might be for Germany. If it were to meet the 2 percent bar, it would boost its defense spending to about $75 billion per year, resulting in a military larger Britain’s. That would amount to a profound shift for a country that has long had a pacifist tradition the held it back from embracing a global defense presence as big as its economic might.

Mattis’s demands were echoed by British Defense Secretary Michael Fallon, who met head-to-head with the U.S. defense chief before the main NATO conclave. Fallon said that Britain – which spends the second-largest amount on defense in the alliance – is proposing that countries that spend less than NATO guidelines commit to an annual defense budget increase.

“An annual increase would at least demonstrate good faith,” Fallon told a small group of reporters in Brussels. Fallon said that Mattis had underlined a “100 percent commitment” to NATO.​

An ultimatum is drastic, but then the statement was also made behind close doors. Overall I think it's a fair demand.
Remember: Mattis is the sane defense person in Trump's cabinet. Even after Trump is gone (and I think he will be impeached soon), the demand will stay. Not to forget that this mentality was already adopted during the Obama years.

Some related news / op-eds:
This Is How NATO Ends | Foreign Policy (an outlook at how NATO could devolve under Trump)
Ursula von der Leyen calls for more defense spending ahead of NATO summit | News | DW.COM | 15.02.2017
Germany to deepen military ties with France, others: sources | Reuters

Bonus: Norway's (first) female tank commander - NATO | YouTube

 

[Jarmel]

Americans cannot care more for your children’s security than you do.

Can't argue with that.

 

[mdubs]

I think it's fair that the countries involved should have to meet the spending requirements they agreed to

 

[WedgeX]

Remember that time that Trump's potential ambassador to the EU came out against a European Union Army?

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

I mean it was agreed upon. So i think its a fair to say that.

 

[YuriLowell]

I can't argue against this.

 

[sprinkles]

Mattis’s ultimatum could have wide-ranging implications in Europe, but the biggest might be for Germany. If it were to meet the 2 percent bar, it would boost its defense spending to about $75 billion per year, resulting in a military larger Britain’s. That would amount to a profound shift for a country that has long had a pacifist tradition the held it back from embracing a global defense presence as big as its economic might.

I somehow doubt our European friends want Germany to have the biggest military on the continent again.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Yup Im with Mattis on this one and nice reference OP to how Obama wanted the same thing

We need more bipartisan issues at the forefront

 

[Beartruck]

Can't argue with that.

I agree. If they really believe the Us can't be trusted currently then they need to pull their own weight in self defense.

 

[Geist-]

No lies detected. The US spends an obscene amount of money and manpower defending the entire Western world, it's only fair the other countries in the Alliance pull their own weight.

 

[SliceSabre]

”Americans cannot care more for your children's security than you do.

I don't agree with much of what Trump's people say or do but I actually do agree with this point.

There is no real argument I can think of that justifies them not holding up the defense spending end of the agreement.

 

[Fritz]

German public will hate this but I too think it is necessary and overdue.

 

[Flai]

Less dependence on the US would also be a great thing.

 

[BriGuy]

Putting the world back in World War 3.

 

[Kite]

No issue with this, the problem is that I don't see how many of the NATO countries can afford it. But they agreed to it so.. find a way so the US tax payer isn't always getting stiffed with the bill.

 

[xenist]

If only one of the major aims of US diplomacy post WW2 wasn't ensuring they are the ones that carry the big stick when it comes to NATO.

Other than that I agree.

 

[GrantDaNasty]

I got no issue with the US asking for everyone to put up what's being asked.

I'm just scared cause my country (Estonia) pays their 2% and likely other countries have less reason to give a fuck cause they got hundreds, if not thousands of kilometers of distance from Russia's mainland.

The only ones who will suffer are the ones who need a union like NATO the most in case the shit ever does hit the fan.

 

[jfkgoblue]

No lies detected. The US spends an obscene amount of money and manpower defending the entire Western world, it's only fair the other countries in the Alliance pull their own weight.

Yeah, and the US gets criticized for being the "world police". Well no shit we are when are really the only country that has a real commitment to global defense.

 

[Maxim726X]

Putting the world back in World War 3.

By asking other countries to equally contribute and do their part?

Don't see how. NATO is largely seen as a toothless organization, and US ends up doing most of the heavy lifting anyway.

I agree with him.

 

[Earthstrike]

Can't argue with that.

The reason the rest of Nato isn't spending the 2% is because the spending goal is too high. Not in terms of feasibility, but rather achievement of the desired goal, deterrence from war. America and every Nato nation could spend around 1% of GDP and the deterrence from war effect would still be just as strong. The demand for military spending is an oft repeated one from the party that is bought out by the military industrial complex (it affects the dems as well though, eisenhower warded against this). It consumes way too much GDP and we can't keep fucking throwing away money retardedly.

Edit: And it's not a requirement, it's a guideline.

 

[Frozenprince]

This has been a fair demand for a long time.

People want US military spending and projection down, this is the only way you get it.

Mattis remains the lone voice of sanity and reason.

 

[Apathy]

No lies detected. The US spends an obscene amount of money and manpower defending the entire Western world, it's only fair the other countries in the Alliance pull their own weight.

You understand the influence that the US has in some places because of how some countries don't spend what they think is enough right? You also get that most nations in NATO have their own army that are sufficient for their needs.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Remember: Mattis is the sane defense person in Trump's cabinet.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, either, but I'm not so sure Mattis is all that sane anymore either, if the rumors are true that he goaded Trump into that blotched Yemen raid.

 

[BobTheFork]

This has been a fair demand for a long time.

People want US military spending and projection down, this is the only way you get it.

The administration is trying to increase domestic military spending. If they were going to have our allies increase while we decrease I would get that. that is not what's happening.

 

[gutter_trash]

the arbitrary 2% is a strange number not taking into account the expertise and differences from each country

 

[Iksenpets]

Worth noting here that this isn't really any different from what the past several Defense Secretaries have told NATO. Only difference is the implication that Trump would actually pull out over underpayments.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, either, but I'm not so sure Mattis is all that sane anymore either, if the rumors are true that he goaded Trump into that blotched Yemen raid.

Also, reports that he was planning to try to board an Iranian ship in international waters to try and get proof they were smuggling weapons to Yemen, and only called it off when the plans leaked to the press. Straight up act of war, that could have ended up finding nothing.

 

[Hari Seldon]

This has been a fair demand for a long time.

People want US military spending and projection down, this is the only way you get it.

Mattis remains the lone voice of sanity and reason.

Maybe the US can finally get some of those sweet social programs that the Euros have if we aren't subsidizing their military. Same with the UK really.

 

[jelly]

I don't disagree but the US and UK do stir the world pot something awful and want to dominate the global scene with military power. Nobody asks them to.

If Brexit happens in full, the EU should get the EU army going properly and that increase can cross over into NATO by default.

 

[George Washington]

It's fair that they pay their share, however, these are the only real deterrents.

 

[capslock]

Hate Trump but it's reasonable to ask for this.

 

[SDCowboy]

I honestly don't disagree. It's not fair for the US to essentially be counted on to be the military for the entire western world.

 

[shintoki]

You understand the influence that the US has in some places because of how some countries don't spend what they think is enough right? You also get that most nations in NATO have their own army that are sufficient for their needs.

Most of those countries get by with being an ally to the US. They have a standing army, but no one wants to mess with big brother with the biggest stick.

He's not wrong. Either lower the requirement, hencing lowering the US contribution or pay more... hence lowering the US contribution. Less dependance on the US is good for all. I think it's far to put in more or for the US to start to withdraw some of their own funds.

 

[Acinixys]

2% from Germany equaling 75 billion blows my mind

 

[VendettaRed07]

This is the right approach from Mattis and it is fair.

But Trump will destroy any negotiation on this and no NATO allies are going to be willing to change terms or anything because they will just be suspect he is trying to somehow aid Putin. He's gone after NATO in such a ridiculous, bombastic way I don't see anything changing under Trump.

 

[Valhelm]

Ideally, America would dissemble its vertical empire in favor of a more equitable and multilateral approach to the defense of liberal democracies. A grand European army protecting a stronger EU is more sustainable than dependency on America. It's also a lot more fair. We don't have to pay for them, and they aren't living under our thumb.

But this won't lead to anything too fruitful, because Trump wants to increase military spending and has chastised Europe for attempts at self-defense.

 

[jfkgoblue]

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, either, but I'm not so sure Mattis is all that sane anymore either, if the rumors are true that he goaded Trump into that blotched Yemen raid.

You can't really fault him for that. That is how War goes sometimes and while any loss of human life is terrible, it happens in the military and you can't as a leader or commander dwell on it.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Maybe the US can finally get some of those sweet social programs that the Euros have if we aren't subsidizing their military. Same with the UK really.

With a GOP lead Congress? Lol, what dreams in a fairly tale night.

 

[SerTapTap]

No argument here. I hope Trump doesn't do anything idiotic and try to dismantle NATO but yeah, pay your shit.

 

[mnz]

I think it's fair that the countries involved should have to meet the spending requirements they agreed to

I mean it was agreed upon. So i think its a fair to say that.

As far as I know the 2% goal isn't anything they signed up on, it's just an arbitrary goal they should aim for.

When it comes to Germany that goal is kind of insane. You have to understand that Germany doesn't have any nuclear weapons, aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and many other things that other countries spend large amounts of their budget on. It would have to become a gigantic landbased army, much bigger than Britain's or France's who do have those things.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

I'd venture to say that Mattis is probably the most important person in the country right now. While Trump's ineptness is going on, we rely on him the most I feel.

 

[Lord Frieza]

You can't really fault him for that. That is how War goes sometimes and while any loss of human life is terrible, it happens in the military and you can't as a leader or commander dwell on it.

You need to really read up on the Yemen raid, and the rumors of how Mattis manipulated Trump into doing it supposedly. Seriously, it's pretty bad.

 

[nature boy]

So is it in America's interest to have less military bases in Europe?

 

[Boney]

I don't understand how the US millitary budget is justified to the population at large. And now they want other countries to spend more on the millitary? Fuck off Mattis

 

[Jarmel]

As far as I know the 2% goal isn't anything they signed up on, it's just an arbitrary goal they should aim for.

When it comes to Germany that goal is kind of insane. You have to understand that Germany doesn't have any nuclear weapons, aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and many other things that other countries spend large amounts of their budget on. It would have to become a gigantic landbased army, much bigger than Britain's or France's who do have those things.

Couldn't you dump that into military research and weapons development?

 

[VendettaRed07]

But sadly, even if we do stop subsidizing NATO allies like this, the difference won't be that we'll have more money to spend

It will just be we'll be giving Israel 100billion dollars over the next decade instead of 40.

 

[Frozenprince]

Maybe the US can finally get some of those sweet social programs that the Euros have if we aren't subsidizing their military. Same with the UK really.

God that would be nice.

 

[Abounder]

Currently, just five of NATO's 28 countries spend at least 2 percent on defense

And the worse thing about is that 2% isn't anywhere near enough for defense, much less scenarios with Russian false flag ops or intervening NK. Look at the shitshow that was Libya

So then who wants a few F-35s?

Maybe the US can finally get some of those sweet social programs that the Euros have if we aren't subsidizing their military. Same with the UK really.

Hey now to get those freedoms all you have to do is serve 20+ years in the military for free healthcare and a college education for your kids

 

[kmag]

No lies detected. The US spends an obscene amount of money and manpower defending the entire Western world, it's only fair the other countries in the Alliance pull their own weight.

That's not why the US spends so much on defense.

 

[jfkgoblue]

You need to really read up on the Yemen raid, and the rumors of how Mattis manipulated Trump into doing it supposedly. Seriously, it's pretty bad.

Yeah, I haven't read about it in detail other than they did it too soon and a lot of people were killed. You're probably right.

 

[Zophar]

Maybe we can bring our spending down closer to 2% of GDP too.