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[kharma45]

Well I was talking about Ed but it was basically a made up scenario to demonstrate the confusing nature of the system.

Ah right grand, mis-read you! My mistake.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

We should start doing our best guesses for seats, deals, and government now we're past our last election weekend. Prize of bragging rights for the winner.

 

[Yen]

It's weird, historically the Lib Dems have been a leftist party, left of Labour even. But in order to ensure this little coalition of theirs remains a cozy potential, they are pretending to be some sort of centre party. Embarrassing.

If they are moving away from the left, you would at least like them to ramp up the social liberalism a bit, but there's been none of that in the past 5 years. "It would've been worse without the LibDems" is literally all they have (though what do I know about historically - I don't remember anything before the late stages of Kennedy's reign)

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Lib Dems have never been that left wing of Labour when it comes to economics. But they have been anti war and for civil rights. I'm not really sure how anyone could get the impression that Lib Dems were to the left of the Labour party.

 

[Jackpot]

Lib Dems have never been that left wing of Labour when it comes to economics. But they have been anti war and for civil rights. I'm not really sure how anyone could get the impression that Lib Dems were to the left of the Labour party.

Pretty sure mainstream impression has been they are left of Labour.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Pretty sure mainstream impression has been they are left of Labour.

It appears that crack cocaine is more mainstream than I thought.

 

[Jezbollah]

We should start doing our best guesses for seats, deals, and government now we're past our last election weekend. Prize of bragging rights for the winner.

I wont make a guess on actual Con/Lab/LD seats, but I think SNP gets around 45, and UKIP 2 (Reckless/Carswell) - I dont think Nige may get in. Caroline Lucas should win for the Greens.

It's going to be very interesting come election night!

 

[Ding-Ding]

I don't know, I just remember on question time a while back, one of the panel said it would be £8 by 2020 anyway so the labour policy was merely smoke and mirrors

It was the lib dems. Going by the average rate of growth of the minimal wage since 1999, it will stand to be just over £8.20 by 2020.

So they said it will be a real term cut. Of course neither take into account the state of the economy at the time, so both would be bullshit if we hit another recession (we would be due one before 2020 as we will be towards the end of a normal economic cycle)

Personally, I would be looking more at personal allowances as thats the safer bet

 

[AGoodODST]

.

Lol perfect.

 

[Maledict]

It appears that crack cocaine is more mainstream than I thought.

That's what I said earlier - I think a large number of people voted for the Lib Dems without actually reading their manifesto or the party. The Lib Dems joining up with the conservatives should not have been a surprise - they would join with either party depending on the circumstances and agreements,

 

[Marc]

Curious whether PR may be a big issue of this formation of government, if SNP want it as well, then that be be the LibDems, UKIP, Greens and SNP all vying for it. Not sure on NI/Welsh parties, but in any case that is a significant enough amount to start demanding it.

I wonder whether Tories are starting to come around to the idea as well, it would have given them a majority last time and potentially this time too. Probably not as they don't think like that.

Has Ed said anything about PR before?

I have to applaud you for coming up with a form of PR that manages to be worse than our current FPTP system, I genuinely don't think I've ever seen anyone manage that before.

As I said after the bit you quoted, I wouldn't want that. That is the system FPTP is supposed to provide assuming it all goes well, the majority voted gets the most seats and can basically pass through anything they want in government. That just ensures it would happen every time and there were no possibilities for hung parliaments like now.

Again, not something I want, I hate FPTP and want the whole thing torn down personally.

It's in a big post on the previous page, directly quoted from ukip. And don't refer to Blairs labour as my "beloved", I've pointed out to you before that I only started voting Labour after Blair left.

Ok, so your post admits it isn't in their manifesto. So some within the party may want it (lewes), but it wasn't the decided upon direction. Are you going to hold Miliband to account for policies others want within his party, or previously made manifesto's? I wouldn't, and actually believe Ed wants to carry out his pledges. Also the wording is poor, but the bolded bits such as holidays is just saying they would end the current legislation which is EU governed, so no duh on that front, they would have to. Employee laws are numerous though which is ok for big companies but smaller ones have struggled with it. They talk about simplifying it. Not that much of this matters, no one is voting UKIP for those policies whether fair or not. It wouldn't be a red line issue for them and would have no relevance, and with past policies/attitudes will get phased out as they become more popular and centrist.

I was talking about Labour more than anything although as Farage pointed out, no one was against it at the time so Tories can't hide away or use it either. I don't think there are many Blairites left at this stage luckily.

 

[CyclopsRock]

guys I'm so sorry

 

[King_Moc]

Ok, so your post admits it isn't in their manifesto. So some within the party may want it (lewes), but it wasn't the decided upon direction. Are you going to hold Miliband to account for policies others want within his party, or previously made manifesto's? I wouldn't, and actually believe Ed wants to carry out his pledges. Also the wording is poor, but the bolded bits such as holidays is just saying they would end the current legislation which is EU governed, so no duh on that front, they would have to. Employee laws are numerous though which is ok for big companies but smaller ones have struggled with it. They talk about simplifying it. Not that much of this matters, no one is voting UKIP for those policies whether fair or not. It wouldn't be a red line issue for them and would have no relevance, and with past policies/attitudes will get phased out as they become more popular and centrist.

I was talking about Labour more than anything although as Farage pointed out, no one was against it at the time so Tories can't hide away or use it either. I don't think there are many Blairites left at this stage luckily.

That wasn't just from the Lewes page, It was party wide and on all of them. Lewes just hadn't deleted theirs. And it seems they talk of leaving stuff up to businesses to offer what they want, with businesses having to offer the best deals to best the best employees. Of course, collusion would never happen in this situation, and America shows us just how well this would really work. Great for business, awful for everyone else.

guys I'm so sorry

Damn, I've never been on one of these before.

 

[RedShift]

guys I'm so sorry

I don't think I've ever been on a wall of shame before. Woo top 10.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Kmag we have the numbers to vote down cyclops' Queens speech. Want to do the dirty?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Kmag we have the numbers to vote down cyclops' Queens speech. Want to do the dirty?

Illegitimate.

 

[Maledict]

Woot, numbers 20! First time on a wall of shame for me as well... ;-)

 

[Tak3n]

The games have started

Senior Labour figures are considering the option of forming a minority coalition with the Liberal Democrats, the BBC has learned.
The move is to counter claims a Labour government would lack legitimacy if it won fewer seats than the Conservatives.
Senior Labour sources say such a coalition would have collectively more seats than the Conservatives.
They hope this might give an Ed Miliband-led administration greater legitimacy in the eyes of voters.
Labour could form the next government even if it has fewer MPs than the Tories and both parties have no majority.
Legitimacy questions
What matters constitutionally is not which party comes first or second, but which can command the confidence of the House of Commons with the support of other parties.
Some Tory ministers have begun to argue that it would be illegitimate for Labour to form a government if it "came second" behind the Conservatives - in an attempt to shape the agenda for the day after the election if no party wins outright, the Tories win most seats and David Cameron tries to stay on in Downing Street.
But Labour sources say that a coalition with the Lib Dems would not only give an Ed Miliband minority government greater legitimacy, it would also give it greater stability.
They say that while coalition would not give Labour a majority in the House of Commons, it would give the government the ability to out-vote the Conservatives regularly whenever the SNP abstain.
They also say that coalition with the Lib Dems would make it much easier for a Labour-led government to get its business through the House of Lords where no party has a majority and where 102 Lib Dem peers are a key swing vote.
The inability to overturn defeats in the House of Lords has been one of the biggest difficulties faced by minority governments in the past.
'Coalition of losers'
There would be many hurdles to be overcome before any Labour-Lib Dem minority government could be formed.
It would be accused by opponents of being a "coalition of the losers".
Many Lib Dems would be opposed to minority coalition: not only would the party have to compromise yet again on its policies in return for power, but it would also have even less chance of getting its own policies implemented.
A Labour spokesman said: "This is post-election speculation. Every hour until polls close we are going to spend on winning a Labour majority.
"We are focused only on winning a Labour majority."
A Lib Dem spokesman said: "If there is a hung parliament we will do what we did last time: seek to work in the national interest to provide stable government and deliver the policies we believe will help to build a stronger economy and a fairer society.
"As last time, it is right that the party with the biggest mandate from the British people - the most votes and the most seats - should be given the first opportunity to reach out to other parties.
"It is clear that no party will win the election outright.
"Voting for Liberal Democrat MPs will keep Britain on track and not allow the Tories or Labour lurch off to the extremes of left or right."

 

[Jackpot]

Ballot Monkeys is so on point. Best satire of the year.

 

[Jezbollah]

I don't think I've ever been on a wall of shame before. Woo top 10.

Me neither!

I dare say we may hit four figures for some of us this time next week!

 

[JonathanEx]

Ballot Monkeys is so on point. Best satire of the year.

Absolutely love it. So many good lines.

 

[iMax]

Ballot Monkeys is so on point. Best satire of the year.

The most amazing part is that episodes are filmed the day they're broadcast.

Seriously. Blew my mind when I found out.

 

[JonathanEx]

The most amazing part is that episodes are filmed the day they're broadcast.

Seriously. Blew my mind when I found out.

If you haven't seen Drop The Dead Donkey, you have to. You'll see the roots of Ballot Monkeys, and it's a stupidly funny sitcom that although is full of references of the time, isn't dated to watch.

 

[iMax]

If you haven't seen Drop The Dead Donkey, you have to. You'll see the roots of Ballot Monkeys, and it's a stupidly funny sitcom that although is full of references of the time, isn't dated to watch.

Yeah, I need to. Heard tons of good stuff about it.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Are you from the US? Has there been much coverage of the election over there? I assume there isn't usually, but it must be pretty hard explaining wtf is going on. It's hard enough here because both our electoral system and method of government formation is so arcane, so I can't imagine how well it translates into other countries which much more modern systems.

I can confirm that there's been very little coverage of the election here in the US. There was a blurb this morning on public radio that said (paraphrasing) "The UK is holding an election this week that will determine the next Prime Minister. The Conservative PM David Cameron is being challenged by Labour's Ed Miliband. The polls have them neck-and-neck so a smaller party may be able to act as kingmaker." That's the most comprehensive coverage I can think of from anything that could be considered mainstream media. To follow the election from the US one needs to read political blogs, UK media, etc.

It's interesting that you mention how arcane the UK system is, because I honestly find the system we have in the US to be incredibly convoluted. I think we tend to accept it as normal over here because (1) it's what we're used to, (2) most people honestly have only a rudimentary understanding of how it works and (3) the incredibly dominant position of the two major parties tends to mask some of the quirks of the system.

Just to give an example, even if you're OK with a system where one need not win a majority or even a plurality of votes to become president (which of course has parallels in the UK system), the Electoral College is absolutely nuts. Consider:

-States with larger populations have more electoral votes, but not in direct proportion to population. As of the last census, California had over 66 times the population of Wyoming. California has 55 electoral votes to Wyoming's 3 (a little over 18 times as many).

-Although most states award all of their electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most votes, there are two exceptions (Maine and Nebraska) who instead split their votes by Congressional district (equivalent to constituency). And this is just the tip of the iceberg for how the rules governing elections vary from state to state.

-If you think a hung parliament is chaotic, things get really crazy if no candidate receives a majority of electoral votes, then the president is chosen by the House of Representatives. But each Representative isn't just given a vote because that would be entirely too simple. Each state's delegation has to vote as a bloc (I can just imagine the fun in states where the delegation is evenly split between Republicans and Democrats).

I haven't even gotten into aspects of the US system outside of electing the president. Not saying the UK system is straightforward by any means of course.

Anyways, I'm watching this election with interest, partly because I'm fascinated by the differences between our systems, but I'm certainly in the minority here.

 

[Faddy]

Minority coalition with the Lib Dems isn't credible. They admit they won't have enough seats to pass everything. Seems to me like a play against the SNP or at the least diminshing the damage done when Ed reneges on his promise not to work with them

 

[mclem]

Yeah, I need to. Heard tons of good stuff about it.

Much as I love iPlayer, one thing C4 are so much better at streaming is archive content.

Drop The Dead Donkey

That's all of it, I believe.

Edit: (Oh my, they've got Mr Don and Mr George)

 

[pulsemyne]

New yougov poll shows.....33/33. Nothing between them.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Anyways, I'm watching this election with interest, partly because I'm fascinated by the differences between our systems, but I'm certainly in the minority here.

Very interesting, thanks!

 

[kmag]

It was the lib dems. Going by the average rate of growth of the minimal wage since 1999, it will stand to be just over £8.20 by 2020.

So they said it will be a real term cut. Of course neither take into account the state of the economy at the time, so both would be bullshit if we hit another recession (we would be due one before 2020 as we will be towards the end of a normal economic cycle)

Personally, I would be looking more at personal allowances as thats the safer bet

NI would be the best thing to raise the allowance for, but that's difficult politically due to the 'link' with NHS and Pension funding which obviously doesn't actually exist but people continue to think that it does.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Kmag we have the numbers to vote down cyclops' Queens speech. Want to do the dirty?

Wait, does that make me UKIP? I don't want to play if I have to be UKIP ;_;

 

[Maledict]

Minority coalition with the Lib Dems isn't credible. They admit they won't have enough seats to pass everything. Seems to me like a play against the SNP or at the least diminshing the damage done when Ed reneges on his promise not to work with them

I disagree. The odds are the only coalition that would have a majority of seats would be an SNP / Labour coalition, which isnt going to happen. I think the Lib Dems joining with Labour this time around would be a good move for them and give Labour room to breathe when it came to the SNP. It does also allow them to present themselves as a government of unity.

With Clegg retaining his seat I don't see it happening though. Not because he's so in love with the Tories, but because I think Labour would rather go to second election that work with him after the last 5 years.

 

[Hanmik]

Spelling mistakes like this:

has to be a joke right ?? righ t??

 

[hepburn3d]

Does anyone else really struggle to read any news that isn't the BBC when elections come up? The scare mongering, spin and over dramatized headlines make my stomach hurt.

If we do get a Tory government for the next 5 years I really do wish all UK Gaffers the best of health in the next 5 years. My wife has worked in 3 hospitals in the last 5 years and it's like theirs a media black out from what's happening in them to what's written in the papers.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Does anyone else really struggle to read any news that isn't the BBC when elections come up? The scare mongering, spin and over dramatized headlines make my stomach hurt.

If we do get a Tory government for the next 5 years I really do wish all UK Gaffers the best of health in the next 5 years. My wife has worked in 3 hospitals in the last 5 years and it's like theirs a media black out from what's happening in them to what's written in the papers.

The BBC have given the Tories a very easy ride.

Charter renewal time.

 

[Hasney]

Spelling mistakes like this:

has to be a joke right ?? righ t??

I have to admit, their scenario does make me feel erect.

 

[Tak3n]

I think it shows just how power corrupts when Nick clegg won't red line on a vote on Europe..... Clearly desperate to get back into power..... This guy will happily go TV debates about staying in Europe but in the next breath would join a coalition where a referendum on leaving Europe is happening.....

That makes no sense

 

[Maledict]

I think it shows just how power corrupts when Nick clegg won't red line on a vote on Europe..... Clearly desperate to get back into power..... This guy will happily go TV debates about staying in Europe but in the next breath would join a coalition where a referendum on leaving Europe is happening.....

That makes no sense

Um, holding a referendum on Europe has been a Lib Dem policy for some time to be fair. There was a big huha last time around about it, but the general Lib Dems view is that a referendum would help purge some of the irrational poison around Europe and remove the uncertainty of a Brexit. Whilst holding a straight in and out referendum isn't what they want to do, they are not opposed to a referendum in principle, more the timing of it.

(Lib Dem policy is that if there is substantial treaty change, we should hold a referendum on overall Europe membership rather than the specific treaty change proposed).

It's definitely not something that I think most party activists would consider a red line - they won't like it, but I suspect they would be far more outraged by the prospect of a coalition with the DUP than a referendum on Europe.

 

[Hasney]

I think it shows just how power corrupts when Nick clegg won't red line on a vote on Europe..... Clearly desperate to get back into power..... This guy will happily go TV debates about staying in Europe but in the next breath would join a coalition where a referendum on leaving Europe is happening.....

That makes no sense

No, that actually makes perfect sense since it would go to a public vote, they'll just campaign on the side of staying in Europe. They're the minority party in any coalition so it makes sense to be flexible on that issue.

Don't get me wrong, old Cleggy hasn't stood up for a lot of things he should have in this very government, but I don't believe that will be one of them. Will be interesting if he gets "flexible" on the public sector pay thing that he has assured everyone is a red line issue.

 

[King_Moc]

The Independent backing a Tory government. Very surprising move, totally unaffected by the owner being a non-domicile, I'm sure.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Fucking lol

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/polit...leaving-roy-chubby-browns-house-2015050598002

DAVID Cameron has been spotted leaving the home of popular ribald comic Roy ‘Chubby’ Brown in the early hours of the morning.

After Russell Brand pledged support for Labour, the prime minister immediately booked a meeting with the successful goggle-wearing stand-up.

A Conservative source said: “Brand is only popular with effete students who are too lazy to vote, whereas Chubs is the voice of the thick-necked ordinary man who rises early, works hard and drinks a terrifying amount of Stella.

“Chubs talks about relatable things like farting, women’s spending habits and being forced to masturbate because his wife stubbornly refuses to administer oral sex.

“Also he takes positive ownership of his weight by getting the entirety of Wolverhampton Civic Hall to chant ‘you fat bastard’. That’s very inspiring to the plump 50 per cent of the electorate.”

David Cameron said: “Chubs and I enjoyed two hours of talks during which we ate working class ‘selection box’ biscuits and found much common ground, especially on the subject of Nicola Sturgeon, who we agree is a right old boiler with a face like a smacked arse.”

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Ooh, two days to go, and my local MP finally replied to my letter about this.

Don't think it's swayed me to vote for him, and the letter actually looks fairly pre-fabricated, but I still appreciate that he's probably hella busy right now so he's gone up slightly in my opinion.

Edit:

Like popular R&B singer Lemar, right about now Elections Etc is 50 / 50.

 

[Jezbollah]

Spelling mistakes like this:

has to be a joke right ?? righ t??

THATS MY CONSTITUENCY!!

(Rochford & Southend East)

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Littlejohn in the Mail has gone full retard.

 

[King_Moc]

THATS MY CONSTITUENCY!!

(Rochford & Southend East)

Will you be rising to the occasion?

Edit: Littlejohn really is an utter, utter shit. There are no positives about him at all. Disgusting headline.

 

[Hasney]

Trust Littlejohn? I'd rather trust GAF with a medical issue.

 

[Lego Boss]

Littlejohn in the Mail has gone full retard.

Does his surname refer to the size of his genitals?

 

[JosephManderley]

Just been chatting with someone I know about the election. Told me he was probably going to vote UKIP. (My partner is Polish) I replied that if UKIP has their way, she wouldn't be here - to which he replied...

"She'd be OK, she's Polish, its only the Europeans UKIP don't want coming over..."

His vote counts the same as mine. Democracy in action. SMH.

 

[Hasney]

Just been chatting with someone I know about the election. Told me he was probably going to vote UKIP. (My partner is Polish) I replied that if UKIP has their way, she wouldn't be here - to which he replied...

"She'd be OK, she's Polish, its only the Europeans UKIP don't want coming over..."

His vote counts the same as mine. Democracy in action. SMH.

Yeah, I try not to engage people who I know are going to make me weep that they have an equal vote.

Who does he not want coming over then? The French?

 

[hepburn3d]

It's ridiculous. Promote the positives of your party of choice, not stupid scare mongering titles of another party. The papers might as well scream "You will die if you vote labour".