Support NeoGAF

[Mindwipe]

My head will probably explode if the next few days continue to have English voters trying to blame Scotland for the torries winning.

It was in your hands England. Maybe Milliband should have had some balls and accepted to lock the Torries out with the SNP.

Yeah, I can't quite get that mentality.

Even if Labour had won every single Scottish seat, the Tories still win the election with a majority. The SNP is, frankly, irrelevant.

The South of England and the fact that the Lib Dems collapsing vote didn't go to Labour is where things went wrong for the left.

 

[Masquerader]

Scotland should become the Canada to England's USA.

 

[driver116]

If I was the human embodiment of Scotland I'd sober up after last night's success, ignore the shooting pains in my left arm and cut off England like the infected, possessed hand that it is.

Possessed in the sense they gave Scotland the opportunity to become independent.

 

[industrian]

David Steel says Clegg has put liberalism back decades, and the party needs to shift left on the bbc

One guy here felt sorry for Clegg, but I feel bad for David Steel.

Steel has been forced to watch both the party he built and the constituency he made an impenetrable fortress get torn to fucking shreds.

 

[Audioboxer]

I blame the media. It is the media's fault. Fuck the media.

lol.

But hey, they certainly do not help. Especially up here in Scotland. We constantly get bombarded with scare tactics about how badly we would fail, how our voice just supports ourselves (we were trying to lock out torries for you guys!) and even the torries opposition, Labour, flat out refusing to work with us.

With some of the things Milliband said, can you be surprised Scottish Labour got decimated?

 

[electroshockwave]

My head will probably explode if the next few days continue to have English voters trying to blame Scotland for the torries winning.

It was in your hands England. Maybe Milliband should have had some balls and accepted to lock the Torries out with the SNP.

Well, that was never an option. And the reason they said they wouldn't do a deal with the SNP was to secure the English vote/counter the SNP scaremongering from the media and fat lot of good that did them.

 

[PrivateRyan]

It needs to dump the orange book, but stay centrist. UKIP and the Tories have the centre right sown up.

This would be the best outcome post-Clegg.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Same. England needs waking up, and I can't think of anything else that'll do it. #YesScotland

Waking up to what exactly? That they should vote Labour or Scotland will throw a hissy fit and try to leave the Union again? Scotland didn't vote Labour either.

If I was the human embodiment of Scotland I'd sober up after last night's success, ignore the shooting pains in my left arm and cut off England like the infected, possessed hand that it is.

I'd wager most Scottish people don't hate Cameron enough to allow the Scottish economy to sink over it.

Hence Scotland, in their one and only chance to do so, rejected independence during Cameron's tenure.

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

well we had a decade of Labour before, you were just born at the wrong time to enjoy the start and hope, and then the dawning realisation that they were normal idiots just like the other side.

Yup, Both the conservatives and labour had 3 terms each from 1979-2005. It's been a constant back and forth between the two parties for a long-ass time now. Been that way ever since the 1920's judging by the table of election results and it doesn't look set to change anytime soon.

 

[CyclopsRock]

While I think this result has made it one of the better possibilities for a good result staying in the EU, the increase in the vote for UKIP and the disaster of the polls going into this election are factors that are very hard to ignore.

I'm not sure I'd trust the polls as much on this one. Referendums can be tricky and they tend to be a bit swingy-er than Elections. We have quite a few over here. Our next one is Gay Marriage, it looks like it will comfortably pass in the polls, but I bet there will be a little closer than predicted.

I do think staying in the EU is the smart choice for the UK, and I've faith that apart from the odd anomaly electorates tend to make the smart choice.

Swingier, sure, but also binary choices are much easier to poll insomuch as it becomes almost entirely about the sample size. As for the chances of us staying, sure, UKIP saw their vote share grow but I don't think we should assume that everyone who voted for them would want us to leave the EU either. For some, it's just the fact that they're (Depending on the weather) a more "conservative" party, which is brought into focus when you have a Tory government diluted by coalition with the Lib Dems (I don't think it's a coincidence that UKIPs rise began a few years into this last government - they capture disenfranchised working class labour voters AND disenfranchised small-c conservative voters).

 

[Maledict]

Oddly enough, in terms of Europe and the UK staying in Europe this is probably the best result. Which sounds insane, but the nightmare scenario that Brussels was worrying over was Miliband getting in with a weak government, and the conservatives then tacking hard right and ditching Cameron as a result. Miliband doesn't last the full 5 years with a minority government, and then the Tories get back in with an anti-EU PM. That would have led to a referendum in the next few years in which the conservatives would have campaigned to leave the EU.

This way, the referendum happens and all parties will be campaigning to stay in, including Cameron. So paradoxically, it probably makes our EU membership safer in the long run.

 

[Black Republican]

still not used to hearing the word fag end on tv, lol

 

[Audioboxer]

Waking up to what exactly? That they should vote Labour or Scotland will throw a hissy fit and try to leave the Union again? Scotland didn't vote Labour either.



I'd wager most Scottish people don't hate Cameron enough to allow the Scottish economy to sink over it.

Hence Scotland, in their one and only chance to do so, rejected independence during Cameron's tenure.

Yeah... I'd bet some rejected it on that vow promise. How is that coming along?

 

[SlickShoes]

As someone who is not from Britain: it's absolutely ridiculous that the SNP gets 56 seats and UKIP 0 seats, while UKIP has 2.6X (!) as many votes.

Not that I want the UK to leave the EU. Not at all. But I find the British system is very unfair in this regard.


EDIT And something else that I find ridiculous is that big media outlets are 'happy' or 'sad'. You'd assume most media outlets would try to remain objective and not pick a side.

Do some research and it will make sense, UKIP got that many votes over 600 contested constituencies and won 1 of them, the SNP only contested 59 and won 56 of them.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

My head will probably explode if the next few days continue to have English voters trying to blame Scotland for the torries winning.

It was in your hands England. Maybe Milliband should have had some balls and accepted to lock the Torries out with the SNP.

Trust me I'm already sick of it for the shit I've gotten before when I've been down south as people recognise my accent. And I voted bloody no!

 

[Hasney]

Trust me I'm already sick of it for the shit I've gotten before when I've been down south as people recognise my accent. And I voted bloody no!

Well you should have voted yes! Then the Tories couldn't have gotten this majority somehow, possibly due to to the butterfly effect or fucking wizards!!

 

[Audioboxer]

Trust me I'm already sick of it for the shit I've gotten before when I've been down south as people recognise my accent. And I voted bloody no!

Labour, and Milliband, really had a chance to ease that perception. Instead we got Millibands statement of flat out refusing to work with the SNP whereas the SNP kept offering a hand and saying they'd work with Labour to lock out the torries.

That stunt from Milliband has completely backfired. It certainly hasn't helped Labour in Scotland either.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

the fact that as a young left-leaning person i will now probably have absolutely no voice in my country's politics for the next decade or more is completely terrifying

the right have won. they've beaten the left into submission and now they're going to feast on the corpse of our achievements.

Welcome to my world. I'm a left-leaning English voter living in a conservative constituency (and country). In every election my vote has been worthless.

 

[twobear]

well we had a decade of Labour before, you were just born at the wrong time to enjoy the start and hope, and then the dawning realisation that they were normal idiots just like the other side.

And a decade? You don't think labour can come back next time? I'd not expected them to do anything this time as they had nothing of substance to offer and didn't seem very active in identifying what they stood for after the 2010 defeat. Ed Miliband just seemed to be on cruise control.

This time they have to take action. Whether they go more centralist or more left wing, there is bound to be signifcant reform internally - maybe not to the degree that John Smith oversaw, but hopefully labour will be better off for it, and come back in 5 years with a strong message.

labour could come back, but they'll undeniably go more centrist. why wouldn't they? the country just voted tory en masse after 5 years of total tory failure across the board. there's clearly no appetite for left wing politics in the UK among any serious percentage of the population.

the right won by ignoring us. we took to the streets in our tens of thousands to protest their cuts and they just ignored us. and then labour abandoned us in favour of appealing to the tories.

speaking to my friends this morning, the general attitude seems to be the same. resignation and defeat. the left wing of british politics died over the last five years and last night was its funeral. my only plans for the next five years are getting through it. i could well be one of the last people to get my department's AHRC grant, and the arts centre that i go for my one weekly course at might not exist in five years time. almost everything valuable about britain to me will evaporate over the coming years, and there's nothing i can do to stop it now.

 

[Protome]

Trust me I'm already sick of it for the shit I've gotten before when I've been down south as people recognise my accent. And I voted bloody no!

Oh god, tell me about it. I went down to London for EGX shortly after the referendum. My friends and I were trying to play a card game to pass the time on the train down and everytime one of us spoke, some random English passenger would be like "OH, YOU'RE SCOTTISH?! HOW DID YOU VOTE? WHY DO YOU HATE US? WHY DO YOU WANT TO LEEEAAVVVEEE!?"

Spoiler

To be fair, I did vote Yes. But I did it because I support Devolution and didn't expect Devolution to actually happen unless the Yes vote was really close to winning. It's a dumb reason, I know.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

As someone who is not from Britain: it's absolutely ridiculous that the SNP gets 56 seats and UKIP 0 seats, while UKIP has 2.6X (!) as many votes.

Not that I want the UK to leave the EU. Not at all. But I find the British system is very unfair in this regard.


EDIT And something else that I find ridiculous is that big media outlets are 'happy' or 'sad'. You'd assume most media outlets would try to remain objective and not pick a side.

The system is designed to vote in stable majority governments without and need for coalitions not to make every vote count. Obviously it's not working that well for either and probably nobody feels that more than Scottish conservatives.

 

[Spookie]

Labour, and Milliband, really had a chance to ease that perception. Instead we got Millibands statement of flat out refusing to work with the SNP whereas the SNP kept offering a hand and saying they'd work with Labour to lock out the torries.

You don't understand how middle England think.

 

[driver116]

Labour, and Milliband, really had a chance to ease that perception. Instead we got Millibands statement of flat out refusing to work with the SNP whereas the SNP kept offering a hand and saying they'd work with Labour to lock out the torries.

That stunt from Milliband has completely backfired. It certainly hasn't helped Labour in Scotland either.

I think the result would have been much worse if Ed announced they'd work with the SNP.

 

[Roxas]

Yeah, do you tink Plaid will do better in the National Assembly?

I think they will pretty much keep the same seats they have now. Plaid have their supporters and never really seem to grow or decline too much with each election. Will be interesting though to see how Lib Dems absolute collapse effects the votes.

 

[ghst]

EDIT And something else that I find ridiculous is that big media outlets are 'happy' or 'sad'. You'd assume most media outlets would try to remain objective and not pick a side.

sadly we lack america's rational, logical population and measured, sensitive press.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Hence Scotland, in their one and only chance to do so, rejected independence during Cameron's tenure.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'd expect another one sooner rather than later. I imagine the SNP will be waiting for the oil price to rise again though.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Oddly enough, in terms of Europe and the UK staying in Europe this is probably the best result. Which sounds insane, but the nightmare scenario that Brussels was worrying over was Miliband getting in with a weak government, and the conservatives then tacking hard right and ditching Cameron as a result. Miliband doesn't last the full 5 years with a minority government, and then the Tories get back in with an anti-EU PM. That would have led to a referendum in the next few years in which the conservatives would have campaigned to leave the EU.

This way, the referendum happens and all parties will be campaigning to stay in, including Cameron. So paradoxically, it probably makes our EU membership safer in the long run.

I agree. For all the toys being ejected from prams, we've just elected the most liberal Conservative government the country's ever seen, and one that doesn't really want to leave the EU. All the things that could have gone wrong along the way - David Davis becoming leader in 2005, the Tories requiring UKIP or the DUP or whoever to form a coalition this time and, as you say, ejecting Cameron for a David David-esque figure etc. All that, and they can reasonably expect his successor to be BoJo who is significantly more pro EU than the rest of his party (and he'll likely be in a senior cabinet position during the referendum). I just don't think the EU will be a problem.

Edit: This is not to mention that Scotland can be reliably expected to vote overwhlemingly to stay in.

 

[S¡mon]

Do some research and it will make sense, UKIP got that many votes over 600 contested constituencies and won 1 of them, the SNP only contested 59 and won 56 of them.

Yes, I understand how it works. And surely there will be enough people who consider the current system (with districts) to be the correct system. But I feel like the system shouldn't work like that. In my opinion, it should work like this

(number of votes for your political party) / (combined number of votes of all political parties) * 100 = (percentage of seats the political party get)

In no way I find it fair that 3.8 million people are not represented at all (0 seats), while 1.5 million people are represented with 56 seats.

Am I that crazy to think that's not fair?

sadly we lack america's rational, logical population and measured, sensitive press.

I'm not from the United States.

The system is designed to vote in stable majority governments without and need for coalitions not to make every vote count. Obviously it's not working that well for either and probably nobody feels that more than Scottish conservatives.

I get the idea behind the system, and I can see why people would be in favor of such a system. But 3.8 million people will not be represented at all, while 1.5 million people will be quite heavily represented with 56 seats.

 

[twobear]

the most liberal Conservative government the country's ever seen

lmao

we've just elected a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[edit] sorry, you've just elected a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[Audioboxer]

You don't understand how middle England think.

I'll play the ignorance card there as I don't.

But follow it up with the common sense card. To defeat your enemies sometimes basic team work with a smaller enemy can lead to overall victory. The SNPs PR was friendship and working together with any anti-torry party. Labours was we'll do it alone and Milliband just didn't seem tough enough to convince many of the English he had the ability to.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'd expect another one sooner rather than later. I imagine the SNP will be waiting for the oil price to rise again though.

I'm sure they'll hold referendums until they get the decision they want.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Did you listen to Cameron's pledges? Read the Conservative manifesto? Consider the reasoning behind their economic plan? It's a long-term, sustainable strategy.

You act like these things are cast iron contracts that can they can held accountable too.

You're being extremely naive if you think they'll stick to the absolutely everything they've pledged and not change swathes of their manifesto as they did after the last election.

 

[SuperSah]

So Clegg and Farage are resigned, and Miliband to follow.

Jeeze, bloodshed.

 

[Hasney]

Yes, I understand how it works. And surely there will be enough people who consider the current system (with districts) to be the correct system. But I feel like the system shouldn't work like that. In my opinion, it should work like this

(number of votes for your political party) / (combined number of votes of all political parties) * 100 = (percentage of seats the political party get)

In no way I find it fair that 3.8 million people are not represented at all (0 seats), while 1.5 million people are represented with 56 seats.

Am I that crazy to think that's not fair?

I agree and I don't. The local representation is also important to me, so what happens there? Do we have a new house for locally elected MPs?

Because most people see it as voting for a party and a leader rather than someone to represent them and their community, the voting system does need a change to represent that, but that first part of my post is rarely answered.

 

[industrian]

Oh god, tell me about it. I went down to London for EGX shortly after the referendum. My friends and I were trying to play a card game to pass the time on the train down and everytime one of us spoke, some random English passenger would be like "OH, YOU'RE SCOTTISH?! HOW DID YOU VOTE? WHY DO YOU HATE US? WHY DO YOU WANT TO LEEEAAVVVEEE!?"

Two months after the election I asked the barman in a Manchester pub if he accepted Scottish banknotes.

He said he did and made my beer without any hesitation.

Spoiler

Manchester > London

 

[Audioboxer]

I think the result would have been much worse if Ed announced they'd work with the SNP.

If so then England can only reflect on its perception of progressive politics. If a feeling that Scotland can't help shake up the political front exists in "no ones" mind, then it doesn't matter what we voted or how things went, England simply wanted the conservatives back in.

 

[ghst]

I'll play the ignorance card there as I don't.

But follow it up with the common sense card. To defeat your enemies sometimes basic team work with a smaller enemy can lead to overall victory. The SNPs PR was friendship and working together with any anti-torry party. Labours was we'll do it alone and Milliband just didn't seem tough enough to convince many of the English he had the ability to.

only thing that would've done is tank labour further in london, the one place they did alright.

 

[PJV3]

So Clegg and Farage are resigned, and Miliband to follow.

Jeeze, bloodshed.

Cameron has a majority and leaderless parties facing him. He should go for it Thatcher style.

 

[Charles Brandon]

I'm sure they'll hold referendums until they get the decision they want.

Fortunately they don;t get to choose. But the pressure for one more may be too strong.

 

[Carl2291]

Anyone know when we get results of the local elections?

 

[Jonnax]

Yes, I understand how it works. And surely there will be enough people who consider the current system (with districts) to be the correct system. But I feel like the system shouldn't work like that. In my opinion, it should work like this

(number of votes for your political party) / (combined number of votes of all political parties) * 100 = (percentage of seats the political party get)

In no way I find it fair that 3.8 million people are not represented at all (0 seats), while 1.5 million people are represented with 56 seats.

Am I that crazy to think that's not fair?

Well the MPs are meant to represent areas in this voting system so the SNP wins are because they managed to convince the majority in each section to vote for them.

A solution I guess would be to split local MPs and government MP's into two different elections.

 

[Spookie]

Here goes Ed.

 

[ANuclearError]

I'm surprised Murphy's staying on as SLab leader, I wonder if Ed's potential replacement would try and change that.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Here goes Ed.

There goes Ed

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The pollster Lord Ashcroft has also pointed out UKIP came second in 118 seats.

Mr Farage said: "There was an earthquake in this election. It happened in Scotland, and I think what you saw were a lot of voters so scared of that Labour-SNP coalition that they shifted towards the Conservatives.

"But I saw another shift in this election and I saw UKIP, the party apparently for the retired old colonels, suddenly the party for people under 30, particularly young working women.

"There is a big change going on in politics, and what is really interesting, we've always believed that Britain needs to get back its democracy.

"We shouldn't be governed from Brussels, but what is interesting is what is happening within our democracy in this country.

"We have a party in Britain who have got 50% of the vote in one of the regions and almost 100% of the seats.

"And we have another party that scored almost as many votes, four million, as well as the European elections last year, that has finished up with one seat in parliament.

"I think the time has come from real, genuine, radical political reform, and it is UKIP who will be the party that leads it."

He added: "On a professional level, I express today a degree of disappointment.

"On a personal level I feel an enormous weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I've never felt happier."

Huh, that's pretty surprising.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/farage-loses-ukip-westminster-bid-fails-094441951.html#DKxz3mm

So with Farage now gone, seems Cameron can breathe a little easier about any referendum and use an out of having out causing instability to the economy'recovery' to not have one in 2017.

 

[TM94]

Can't believe the result

Unprecedented cuts in the next government and they still get a majority?

NHS will be gone, local councils ravaged, inequality to widen even further, poverty, foodbanks, education system decimated and the demonization of the welfare state.

Appalling.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

If so then England can only reflect on its perception of progressive politics. If a feeling that Scotland can't help shake up the political front exists in "no ones" mind, then it doesn't matter what we voted or how things went, England simply wanted the conservatives back in.

We weren't desperate for them (I voted Labour) it's just that unlike Scotland we don't really have a progressive political party that offers any hope of genuine change or reform. So really it came down to: Miliband looks weak and Cameron, well... I guess he's doing okay...

 

[Spookie]

well-there-it-is.gif

 

[Audioboxer]

only thing that would've done is tank labour further in london, the one place they did alright.

As I said above you then, just goes to show IMO that many English don't care about Scotland's voice being heard and would vote tactically to keep the SNP out, instead of the torries. Hence me saying England wanted the torries back in. If Labour flat out denied any working with the SNP, and this is how the vote went, that's what I walk away feeling.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Can't believe the result

Unprecedented cuts in the next government and they still get a majority?

NHS will be gone, local councils ravaged, inequality to widen even further, poverty, foodbanks, education system decimated and the demonization of the welfare state.

Appalling.

The fuck you, I got mine mentality is strong in the UK at the moment it seems.