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[QuicheFontaine]

What country? I've not seen the SNP looking to destroy England, and they don't want to destroy Scotland...

I mean they want to remove their country from the state that is the UK but they've never expressed any desire or pushed any legislation to harm England.

The UK is a country. Even Nicola Sturgeon referred to "this country / the country" in the sense of the UK during the seven way leaders debate.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Whoever wins is going to be crushed by the big Boris juggernaut next election. At age 36, Umunna would be better off sitting this round out.

If Cameron successfully closes the door on the Europe Question, he could easily get a third term - will be interesting to see if he goes for it or leaves as he planned when he thought he was going to be in coalition with some arcane mix of liberals, dup & ukip

The UK is a country. Even Nicola Sturgeon referred to "this country" in the sense of the UK during the seven way leaders debate.

Frags would just rather the uk be federalised into individual houses thats all

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Frags would just rather the uk be federalised into individual houses thats all

I'd prefer a federal UK too. It'd certainly be preferable to an independent Scotland and rUK to me. Claiming that the UK as it stands isn't a country is daft though.

 

[kmag]

Behold Westminster.

At Scottish Questions in the next Parliament, the Scottish Secretary (the sole Tory MP) will take 6 questions from the Shadow Scottish Secretary (the sole Labour MP) whilst the other opposition (56 SNP MPs) will be allowed to ask 1 question between them.

 

[twobear]

Worth noting that both business owners and workers are absolutely required elements of any successful economy, though. The "workers" might create the product (though in small businesses - like, by the sounds of it Phisheeps - the owners can also be "workers" in that sense) but there's a huge, enormous amount of risk that needs to be taken by the owners. Most people massively prefer the predictability and ability to plan afforded to them by a routine pay packet, and this is something that people who start businesses have to forgo. At the risk of sounding like some Atlas Shrugged madman, I can't emphasise enough how much respect I have for people willing to give up that familiarity and security to start their own business - and it's only by doing this can jobs actually be created. So yeah, the work gets done by the employees but the spoils go to those willing to take the risks, because they need to be willing to do it.

Incidentally, this all works - for both the employers and employees - not because of some mutual sense of community or due to love of ze mozerland, but rather out of mutual self interest. Ain't it beautiful?

I don't disagree; I've had friends who've started their own businesses, I have some idea what the stress is like, the amount of work that you have to put in just to have a chance at success.

Nevertheless, the idea that only the people at the top of a business are 'wealth creators' really is straight from the pages of Atlas Shrugged. The people at the top couldn't 'create wealth' without the people at the bottom.

Has everyone seen this? Ipsos MORI says that 'Lazy Labour' lost the election, not 'Shy Tories':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...t-Ed-Miliband-the-election-says-pollster.html

Quite an interesting analysis to be honest. I'm quite tempted to read it as 'lurching rightwards would be a disaster for Labour', but that's just the mood I'm in right now.

 

[Polari]

If Cameron successfully closes the door on the Europe Question, he could easily get a third term - will be interesting to see if he goes for it or leaves as he planned when he thought he was going to be in coalition with some arcane mix of liberals, dup & ukip

Obviously early days, but I think he'll be gone next election. Approval ratings will have well and truly collapsed by then, and the party will see Boris as their best chance of staying in power. I wouldn't even be surprised if Cameron doesn't even last the term, as unlikely as it seems now.

 

[FlammableD]

Behold Westminster.

At Scottish Questions in the next Parliament, the Scottish Secretary (the sole Tory MP) will take 6 questions from the Shadow Scottish Secretary (the sole Labour MP) whilst the other opposition (56 SNP MPs) will be allowed to ask 1 question between them.

Are you shitting me?

 

[Walshicus]

I'd prefer a federal UK too. It'd certainly be preferable to an independent Scotland and rUK to me. Claiming that the UK as it stands isn't a country is daft though.

I just think the idea that the UK is a country is laughable. For better or mostly worse, it's a union of countries. A state, not a country or a nation.

 

[War Peaceman]

I just think the idea that the UK is a country is laughable. For better or mostly worse, it's a union of countries. A state, not a country or a nation.

One of the most bizarre bit of semantics I've seen in a while

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Obviously early days, but I think he'll be gone next election. Approval ratings will have well and truly collapsed by then, and the party will see Boris as their best chance of staying in power. I wouldn't even be surprised if Cameron doesn't even last the term, as unlikely as it seems now.

Well, the main consideration as far as I see it is that Cameron has said he's not going to be leading the party at the next election. That pretty much rules out a third term.

I just think the idea that the UK is a country is laughable. For better or mostly worse, it's a union of countries. A state, not a country or a nation.

Laugh away, it's a country. Even the leader of the SNP accepts that. I don't know what your personal criteria are.

 

[kmag]

Are you shitting me?

Actually I've got that wrong it should be

At Scottish Questions in the next Parliament, the Scottish Secretary (the sole Tory MP) will take 6 questions from the Shadow Scottish Secretary (the sole Labour MP) whilst the other opposition (56 SNP MPs + 1 Lib Dem) will be allowed to ask 1 question between them. Other MP's from various parties can also attend but since most of them don't turn up to debates which actually concern their constituents that's unlikely.

But yes, Westminster isn't set up for multi party politics. It's an adversarial chamber where the Government and the opposition are meant to go head to head.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Behold Westminster.

At Scottish Questions in the next Parliament, the Scottish Secretary (the sole Tory MP) will take 6 questions from the Shadow Scottish Secretary (the sole Labour MP) whilst the other opposition (56 SNP MPs) will be allowed to ask 1 question between them.

It'd be funny if it wasn't true...

 

[Hasney]

Actually I've got that wrong it should be

At Scottish Questions in the next Parliament, the Scottish Secretary (the sole Tory MP) will take 6 questions from the Shadow Scottish Secretary (the sole Labour MP) whilst the other opposition (56 SNP MPs + 1 Lib Dem) will be allowed to ask 1 question between them. Other MP's from various parties can also attend but since most of them don't turn up to debates which actually concern their constituents that's unlikely.

But yes, Westminster isn't set up for multi party politics. It's an adversarial chamber where the Government and the opposition are meant to go head to head.

Pahahaha. Hopefully that's obviously changed, but if it's not before the next Scottish Questions, I hope all the questions from the Labour MP are just personal ones like "How are you today?". I mean, they're both pretty irrelevant regardless.

Then take the 1 question from the Lib Dem.

 

[FlammableD]

Actually I've got that wrong it should be

At Scottish Questions in the next Parliament, the Scottish Secretary (the sole Tory MP) will take 6 questions from the Shadow Scottish Secretary (the sole Labour MP) whilst the other opposition (56 SNP MPs + 1 Lib Dem) will be allowed to ask 1 question between them. Other MP's from various parties can also attend but since most of them don't turn up to debates which actually concern their constituents that's unlikely.

But yes, Westminster isn't set up for multi party politics. It's an adversarial chamber where the Government and the opposition are meant to go head to head.

That is awful.

 

[PJV3]

Westminster is a relic.
Use it for state opening and the rest of the year use a modern building with modern procedures.

The Scotland debates are going to be rather silly, it looks like some old imperial attitude because the place isn't able to react to change.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I hope so. Which is also why I hope Tim Farron is the next Lib leader and not Norman Lamb

*crosses fingers*

*crosses toes*

The WLDP and SLDP are already backing Farron. Lamb standing is good, because it means we get to have a proper debate about the party, but unless something really stupid happens, Farron is the next leader.

EDIT: BBC reporting that Umunna is running makes me laugh. New Labour were discredited in 2010. If the party wants to carry on farting around on the right then all they are going to do is futher take for granted their core vote and go nowhere else.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

it looks like some old imperial attitude because the place isn't able to react to change.

If that were the case it would have gone the way of the dinosaur long ago..

 

[PJV3]

If that were the case it would have gone the way of the dinosaur long ago..

Up until the late 80s they had to wear a top hat to raise a point of order, it does change but it takes forever.

Sorry. 1998 is when the top hats were retired.
Some Labour MP's had enough and started putting anything on their head.

 

[Ravensmash]

This RMT strike could cause a lot of anger.

 

[kmag]

Up until the late 80s they had to wear a top hat to raise a point of order, it does change but it takes forever.

Sorry. 1998 is when the top hats were retired.
Some Labour MP's had enough and started putting anything on their head.

Now, now you didn't have to bring your own top hat. Two collapsible top hats were kept in the Chamber especially for the purpose of being passed to a hatless MP who wished to raise a point of order. Of course, said MP would have to get the attention of the hat holder or a deputy speaker to get the hat passed to them.

but it really is a caring sharing place.

"Two Doorkeepers (one behind the Speaker’s chair and one in Members’ lobby) simultaneously shout "Who goes home?" when the House rises. This is often explained as an invitation to Members to join together in bands to cross what in the past were the dangerous unlit fields between Westminster and the City of London, or to hire boats homeward on the Thames as a party in order to save the individual fares."

This amuses me as well. What is the hard on for hats?

Before each sitting of the House, the Speaker leads a formal procession from his or her office to the door of the Chamber. This passes alongside the House’s Library, through to Central Lobby; it then turns right towards Members’ Lobby. Police along the route call out ‘Speaker’, to signify that any people present should stand aside for the Speaker’s procession. In Central Lobby, where there may be members of the public, the police inspector on duty shouts 'Hats off, Strangers', and the police remove their helmets."

 

[Mr. Sam]

Got an e-mail from the Green Party today asking me if I can campaign on their behalf for the upcoming general election.

Really, guys? The words "piss-up" and "brewery" come to mind.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Got an e-mail from the Green Party today asking me if I can campaign on their behalf for the upcoming general election.

Really, guys? The words "piss-up" and "brewery" come to mind.

What's wrong, they are starting their mobilisation early!

Spoiler

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Got an e-mail from the Green Party today asking me if I can campaign on their behalf for the upcoming general election.

Really, guys? The words "piss-up" and "brewery" come to mind.

Well, pretty much everyone in this thread was predicting a second election this year. They must have queued up the emails in advance and forgot to cancel them!

 

[Maledict]

EDIT: BBC reporting that Umunna is running makes me laugh. New Labour were discredited in 2010. If the party wants to carry on farting around on the right then all they are going to do is futher take for granted their core vote and go nowhere else.

Um, New Labour weren't discredited in 2010. Gordon Brown wasn't running under New Labour, I think by that point he'd rather be a conservative MP than run under the new labour banner.

And I think that a lot of left wing folks are misreading this election, and misreading what happened with Blair. Blair and the "new labour" brand is absolutely toxic - but the ideas behind it? The principles? That's how Labour gets elected in this country, and pretending that it was just the SNP and Ed being a poor leader that lost the election isn't true.

Labour need a message for the whole of the country, not just hate the rich and help the poor. It's sad but unfortunately how the world works.

 

[Tak3n]

afraid to say, Conservative John Redwood on lasts nights panorama

"there was a referendum on political reform, which was rejected, and there was no reform anywhere on their manifesto, and they were voted to power with a majority, so there will be no reform at all"

 

[anonymous_abc]

afraid to say, Conservative John Redwood on lasts nights panorama

"there was a referendum on political reform, which was rejected, and there was no reform anywhere on their manifesto, and they were voted to power with a majority, so there will be no reform at all"

Shocking....

 

[jimbobsmells]

Labour needs to hire better spin doctors.

 

[PJV3]

Now, now you didn't have to bring your own top hat. Two collapsible top hats were kept in the Chamber especially for the purpose of being passed to a hatless MP who wished to raise a point of order. Of course, said MP would have to get the attention of the hat holder or a deputy speaker to get the hat passed to them.

but it really is a caring sharing place.



This amuses me as well. What is the hard on for hats?

That's the modern chamber, imagine what they do in the lords.

Um, New Labour weren't discredited in 2010. Gordon Brown wasn't running under New Labour, I think by that point he'd rather be a conservative MP than run under the new labour banner.

And I think that a lot of left wing folks are misreading this election, and misreading what happened with Blair. Blair and the "new labour" brand is absolutely toxic - but the ideas behind it? The principles? That's how Labour gets elected in this country, and pretending that it was just the SNP and Ed being a poor leader that lost the election isn't true.

Labour need a message for the whole of the country, not just hate the rich and help the poor. It's sad but unfortunately how the world works.

New Labour was at its best when it rode the Smith legacy, give me that and I will stop voting for people like Ed.

 

[twobear]

I've always thought that one of the dumbest rules about Parliament is that you're not allowed to call someone a liar, even when they're lying through their teeth. Could you imagine how much more entertaining the last five years would have been if Gideon couldn't' get through one of his speeches about how good a job they were doing with the economy without two or three people calling him out? Amazing.

 

[PJV3]

I've always thought that one of the dumbest rules about Parliament is that you're not allowed to call someone a liar, even when they're lying through their teeth. Could you imagine how much more entertaining the last five years would have been if Gideon couldn't' get through one of his speeches about how good a job they were doing with the economy without two or three people calling him out? Amazing.

I'd rather ban the arse licking at PMQs.
Ooh PM you are amazing, do you agree?

Fine them a months pay for being a waste of time.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I remember reading about how the Habeas Corpus Act was passed, as it's fucking hilarious. I'll let wiki explain:

The Bill went back and forth between the two Houses, and then the Lords voted on whether to set up a conference on the Bill. If this motion was defeated the Bill would stay in the Commons and therefore have no chance of being passed. Each side—those voting for and against—appointed a teller who stood on each side of the door through which those Lords who had voted "aye" re-entered the House (the "nays" remained seated). One teller would count them aloud whilst the other teller listened and kept watch in order to know if the other teller was telling the truth. Shaftesbury's faction had voted for the motion, so they went out and re-entered the House. Gilbert Burnet, one of Shaftesbury's friends, recorded what then happened:

Lord Grey and Lord Norris were named to be the tellers: Lord Norris, being a man subject to vapours, was not at all times attentive to what he was doing: so, a very fat lord coming in, Lord Grey counted him as ten, as a jest at first: but seeing Lord Norris had not observed it, he went on with this misreckoning of ten: so it was reported that they that were for the Bill were in the majority, though indeed it went for the other side: and by this means the Bill passed.[7]

The clerk recorded in the minutes of the Lords that the "ayes" had fifty-seven and the "nays" had fifty-five, a total of 112, but the same minutes also state that only 107 Lords had attended that sitting.[8]

The King arrived shortly thereafter and gave Royal Assent before proroguing Parliament. The Act is now stored in the Parliamentary Archives.

Basically some fat-boy banter ended up being the reason it passed.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I'd rather ban the arse licking at PMQs.
Ooh PM you are amazing, do you agree?

Fine them a months pay for being a waste of time.

without that we'd have never got howard's help me rhonda line

 

[MrChom]

Westminster is a relic.
Use it for state opening and the rest of the year use a modern building with modern procedures.

Nope, shouldn't even be used for that. Turn the place into a museum and get everything moved. No ridiculous robes, no super ornate stuff, just a functional parliament building built for the 21st century, maybe not even in London!

 

[PJV3]

Nope, shouldn't even be used for that. Turn the place into a museum and get everything moved. No ridiculous robes, no super ornate stuff, just a functional parliament building built for the 21st century, maybe not even in London!

How's the queen going to park her horse and cart, then she will need a special room to put her sparkly hat on etc. Keep that stuff in Westminster.

 

[suedester]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating and keeping our traditions. Of course procedures should be updated in keeping with modern times but in no way should we abandon Westminster for some dull new modern building. Some of you are such a bunch of lefty misery guts.

 

[PJV3]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating and keeping our traditions. Of course procedures should be updated in keeping with modern times but in no way should we abandon Westminster for some dull new modern building. Some of you are such a bunch of lefty misery guts.

If I was being a lefty, I would demolish it and build a giant fuck off statue of Bob Crow.

It isn't a left/right thing. There are people on the right who agree.

 

[Tak3n]

Nicola Sturgeon says the Scottish government will resist any attempt by the UK government to scrap the Human Rights Act north of the border. New Scottish Secretary David Mundell told BBC Scotland this morning any such move would apply to the whole of the UK. But speaking on a visit to Edinburgh Royal Infirmary, Ms Sturgeon said:



I oppose the repeal of the Human Rights Act, I think it's an appalling thing to be doing. Human rights are there to protect all of us, for example it was the Human Rights Act that enabled people to go to court to object against the bedroom tax. The idea that we take away human rights, I think, is just an awful suggestion, so the Scottish government will oppose that and work hard to make sure that in Scotland people still get vital human rights protection."

 

[suedester]

If I was being a lefty, I would demolish it and build a giant fuck off statue of Bob Crowe.

It isn't a left/right thing. There are people on the right who agree.

It is a left/right thing. Deny it if you want.

I oppose the repeal of the Human Rights Act, I think it's an appalling thing to be doing.

Whenever this is brought up it is always framed as though it isn't being replaced by another Human Rights Act.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I oppose the repeal of the Human Rights Act, I think it's an appalling thing to be doing

Yeah, well, Cameron won a majority and it was in the Tory manifesto.

Also, the way people go on about it you wouldn't think we only got it in 1998 would you?

 

[FeenieVonKarma]

Behold Westminster.

At Scottish Questions in the next Parliament, the Scottish Secretary (the sole Tory MP) will take 6 questions from the Shadow Scottish Secretary (the sole Labour MP) whilst the other opposition (56 SNP MPs) will be allowed to ask 1 question between them.

Well if that isn't material for the next episode of the News Quiz, I don't know what is!

 

[MrChom]

Also, the way people go on about it you wouldn't think we only got it in 1998 would you?

And it was a damn shame it took that long to come in after we signed up to the ECHR

 

[PJV3]

It is a left/right thing. Deny it if you want.

I don't think it's healthy for our politicians to spend all day in a Victorian medieval fantasy.

Stick them in a warehouse in Croydon, they might start improving the area. Then move them to a disused factory in Bradford.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating and keeping our traditions. Of course procedures should be updated in keeping with modern times but in no way should we abandon Westminster for some dull new modern building. Some of you are such a bunch of lefty misery guts.

Considering the repair bill for the Houses of Parliament is currently at a predicted £3 billion (not including government incompetence which will see that figure double). I am all for tearing that festering shit hole down and building a proper parliament for a 21st Century country.

As for the labour leadership race, no way in HELL can I see Middle England voting for a mixed race Prime Minister. If Chuka Umunna is the leader of the Labour party in 2020 then the Tories could run an election with "baby eating and gas chambers for the poor" in their manifesto and they would still beat Labour.

 

[Maledict]

Considering the repair bill for the Houses of Parliament is currently at a predicted £3 billion (not including government incompetence which will see that figure double). I am all for tearing that festering shit hole down and building a proper parliament for a 21st Century country.

As for the labour leadership race, no way in HELL can I see Middle England voting for a mixed race Prime Minister. If Chuka Umunna is the leader of the Labour party in 2020 then the Tories could run an election with "baby eating and gas chambers for the poor" in their manifesto and they would still beat Labour.

I actually don't agree.

Firstly, I really don't think that race relations in this country are so far behind the rest of the world, and the States in particular.

Secondly, my parents are both Tories, my father stood as a councillor last week, and they rave endlessly about their local asian MP. They are the living embodiment of working class tories done good in the north.

Yes, some people will be against it, but I don't think that would stop him being PM.

 

[tomtom94]

I actually don't agree.

Firstly, I really don't think that race relations in this country are so far behind the rest of the world, and the States in particular.

Secondly, my parents are both Tories, my father stood as a councillor last week, and they rave endlessly about their local asian MP. They are the living embodiment of working class tories done good in the north.

Yes, some people will be against it, but I don't think that would stop him being PM.

If I were to pull something out of my arse I would say the Labour support is traditionally more socially conservative than the current Conservative party (which, at least outwardly, is attempting to be slightly more liberal - hence gay marriage etc). That's why there might be a problem with a mixed race leader (although I would hope not).

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Considering the repair bill for the Houses of Parliament is currently at a predicted £3 billion (not including government incompetence which will see that figure double). I am all for tearing that festering shit hole down and building a proper parliament for a 21st Century country.

As for the labour leadership race, no way in HELL can I see Middle England voting for a mixed race Prime Minister. If Chuka Umunna is the leader of the Labour party in 2020 then the Tories could run an election with "baby eating and gas chambers for the poor" in their manifesto and they would still beat Labour.

Haha, what? So Middle England is racist?

 

[Moze]

Haha, what? So Middle England is racist?

Absolutely.

White British people in general are pretty racist imo.

 

[JonathanEx]

Let the UKIP infighting begin.

http://order-order.com/2015/05/12/carswell-fighting-ukip-hq-over-650000-short-money/

 

[Tak3n]

I don't see why they don't privatise the Houses of Parliament to raise the funds to repair...

The coca cola Houses of Parliament sounds ok to me

 

[War Peaceman]

People won't vote for Chuka because he's an opportunistic Blairite robot not because he's mixed race.

If they have the right message the majority of people will willingly support a mixed/non-white candidate.