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[Par Score]

Of course not. If it turns out that a) the contents are false and b) they knew that it was false when they printed it, then by all means punish them post hoc. But any sort of "preventative" regulation would be impractical in any way.

OFCOM seems to work quite well to keep the broadcasters in line, it would seem quite simple to hold the major publishers to the same standards via the same body.

The idea that the printed press is somehow unregulatable is BS peddled by, unsurprisingly, the shitter parts of the printed press..

You get that feeling already up here. Would be interesting to see the results for an independent vote right now. Might not go in favour still, but I'd wittle it down to a win of a few % tops, instead of 10%.

The most recent polling on Independence from last month still had No winning, but only by 51% to 49%

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Wondering the same thing too, seems like an open goal, would probably drown out any concerns about the SNP which the Tories are stirring up. Maybe saving it for closer to polling day?

Let's hope so. No party should even entertain the idea of going into coalition with this hate group.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Holy shit, it's essentially the Republican party...

1. They want to legalise discrimination against LGBT people
2. Homophobia is deep-rooted within the party
3. They don't exactly champion women's rights
4. They think schools should teach creationism
5. They oppose gay marriage
6. They want to ban begging
7. They hate the BBC
8. They support the death penalty

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/dup-conservative-coalition-gay-rights-5563837

 

[jelly]

Boris is so terrible on the spot. His brain just doesn't have time to boot up. Its not even funny at this point, he is wholly incapable of saying something that wasn't already prepared for him.

..and did he call Milliband a..."creature' on live TV?

Don't fall for it, he is very smart and knows exactly what he is doing. He plays the bumbling fool because it works out well for him in the media and among voters.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Didn't say he wasn't smart, but the bumbling is no act. He is incable of expressing what's going on in his mind without prep time.
A Boris speech is an interesting thing to listen to, while Boris on the spot is cringe worthy.

 

[Kathian]

Don't fall for it, he is very smart and knows exactly what he is doing. He plays the bumbling fool because it works out well for him in the media and among voters.

Yep. Boris is one of the more intelligent within the party. His bumbling means hes a political chameleon - if your never sure what his view is you can't pin him down!

 

[Yen]

Holy shit, I had no idea it was that bad in NI.



Jesus Christ...this is the group that the Tories might consider a coalition with?

"Every time the DUP stood up for the Gays"

1977 – MP Rev Ian Paisley launches the ‘Save Ulster from Sodomy’ campaign in an effort to retain the ban on homosexuality in Northern Ireland.

1982 – DUP submits a response to the NI Office in respect of the proposed decriminalisation of homosexuality, claiming that The effect of the law as a restraint on bestiality, incest and rape will be further reduced.” and goes on to say the change will lead to “inevitable demands for a further lowering”, giving “impetus to the paedophile movement which is rampant within the homosexual movement today”.

22nd June 1998 – DUP MPs vote against the Government to lower the age of consent for gay sex from 18 to 16.

10th Feb 2000 – DUP MPs vote again to reject the Sexual Offences Bill to lower the age of consent for gay sex.

24th Oct 2001 – DUP MPs vote against a motion to bring forward a gender neutral Civil Registration Bill.

4th Nov 2002 – DUP MPs vote against an amendment to the Adoption & Children Bill to allow unmarried straight and gay couples to adopt children.

23rd Feb 2004 – DUP MPs vote against the second reading of the Gender Recognition Bill.

25th May 2004 – DUP MPs vote against the third reading of the Gender Recognition Bill.

12th Oct 2004 – DUP MPs vote against the second reading of the Civil Partnerships Bill

9th Nov 2004 – DUP MPs vote in favour of a wrecking motion to enable siblings to become Civil Partners under proposed legislation. They later vote against the third reading of the Civil Partnerships Bill.

18th Nov 2005 – Ballymena DUP Cllr Maurice Mills claims that gay people are to blame for Hurricane Katrina.

9th Jan 2007 – DUP’s Lord Morrow proposes a motion to defeat the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations (Northern Ireland).

21st March 2007 – DUP MPs vote against a Government Bill to prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

21st Jan 2008 – DUP Peers vote to prevent a clause demanding the need for a ‘father’ from being removed in the Human Fertilisation & Embryology Bill. If this clause had remained then lesbian couples would have been unable to access IVF treatment.

20th Feb 2008 – DUP Culture Minister Edwin Poots MLA calls the establishment of a gay rugby team in Belfast a form of ‘apartheid’.

20th May 2008 – DUP MPs vote against Government proposals to allow single mothers and lesbian couples access to IVF treatment – twice.

June 2008 – DUP MP & MLA Iris Robinson claims that homosexuality can be ‘cured’.

21st July 2008 – DUP MP & MLA Iris Robinson claims that homosexuality is ‘viler’ than child abuse in a speech to Parliament.

26th July 2011 – DUP MLA Jim Wells calls Belfast Pride ‘repugnant’.

2nd August 2012 – Lord Mayor of Belfast, the DUP Cllr Gavin Robinson, stands by his party’s opposition to gay rights at a panel debate during the Belfast Pride festival.

25th August 2012 – Magherafelt District DUP Cllr Paul McClean calls for homosexuality to be made illegal in Northern Ireland.

1st October 2012 – DUP MLAs block a motion brought forward to facilitate marriage equality in Northern Ireland.

25th October 2013 – DUP MLA Tom Buchanan tells school children attending a public event that homosexuality is an ‘abomination’.

October 2012 – DUP Health Minister Edwin Poots MLA lodges an appeal against the NI High Court Ruling overturning the ban on gay couples being allowed to adopt.

5th Feb 2013 – DUP MPs vote against the second reading of the Marriage (Same-Sex Couples) Bill and all technical motions to facilitate the passing of the Bill.

29th April 2013 – DUP MLAs block a second motion brought forward to facilitate marriage equality in Northern Ireland.

2st May 2013 – DUP MPs vote against the third reading of the Marriage (Same-Sex Couples) Bill.

11th Oct 2013 – Despite an NI High Court ruling, DUP Health Minister Edwin Poots MLA refuses to lift the lifetime ban on gay and bisexual men donating blood.

13th Nov 2013 – DUP Health Minister Edwin Poots MLA claims in the NI Assembly that the ‘natural order’ is for a child to be raised by a mother and father.

5th March 2014 (Busy day for the DUP)  – DUP MPs vote against Government proposals to allow same-sex marriages to be annulled or for same-sex spouses to divorce. They also vote against plans to allow consenting places of worship being able to register and de-register their property as venues in which to conduct same-sex weddings. On the same day they vote against plans to allow the registration of Armed Forces chapels as venues in which to conduct same-sex weddings. That same day they vote against plans to allow same-sex weddings for British citizens to be conducted in UK Consulates in foreign nations, to allow same-sex marriages from England and Wales be recognised as Civil Partnerships in Scotland and against the right of UK Armed Forces personnel entering into a same-sex marriage whilst serving overseas. On a bit of a roll that day, weren’t they?

29th April 2014 – DUP MLAs block a third motion brought forward to facilitate marriage equality in Northern Ireland.

8th December 2014 – DUP MLA Paul Givan publishes a Bill (nicknamed the Conscience Clause) designed to allow religious people an opt out from equality legislation when providing goods and services to gay couples.

21st Jan 2015 – Health Minister Jim Wells MLA of the DUP announces that he will maintain the present ban on blood donations from gay and bisexual men.

Last week, Jim Wells, NI Health Minister and standing for this election, said at a debate that "studies have shown children with gay parents are far more likely to be abused" He initially denied saying out and when video appeared he admitted he said it, but he was stressed at the time and has narcolepsy, and that's why he said that. He is supported by his party even though the rest of the executive want him to resign.

Amusingly, "equality" is one of the DUP's 5 election slogans.

 

[Masquerader]

Holy shit, I had no idea it was that bad in NI.



Jesus Christ...this is the group that the Tories might consider a coalition with?

Yup~ While Davycam has expressed some concern over their views on LGBT people, I doubt it would affect him joining up with them in the end.

"Every time the DUP stood up for the Gays"

Last week, Jim Wells, NI Health Minister and standing for this election, said at a debate that "studies have shown children with gay parents are far more likely to be abused" He initially denied saying out and when video appeared he admitted he said it, but he was stressed at the time and has narcolepsy, and that's why he said that. He is supported by his party even though the rest of the executive want him to resign.

I saw that earlier~ And people will still indeed vote for them. Nothing will change their minds.

Holy shit, it's essentially the Republican party...



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/dup-conservative-coalition-gay-rights-5563837

I was genuinely terrified at that Conscience Clause business. I legitimately thought that I was going to be legally discriminated against.

... Although they haven't exactly earned my vote, I am thankful that Sinn Fein (among others) directly opposed it. Say what you will about them, but they are actually reasonable towards minorities. I just don't get why they get shit on for what they have done in the past (deservedly), while the DUP don't get criticised for what they are doing right now, at this moment in time.

 

[kharma45]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDd1lRRWYAAoZvr.jpg[IMG]
-

This woman is standing in West Tyrone, along with the Cannabis Party and a Tory from Camden who had only been to Tyrone for the first time last week. I would have to expect the Cannabis' to poll highest out of those three.[/QUOTE]

Deplorable cunt.

[quote="Miles Quaritch, post: 161625577"]Holy shit, I had no idea it was that bad in NI.



Jesus Christ...this is the group that the Tories might consider a coalition with?[/QUOTE]

I don't see the conservatives aligning themselves with the DUP. Much too toxic. It's a pity they weren't included in the leaders debate solely for the reason to expose their deplorable social views.

 

[Salvadora]

The DUP are a black hole of awfulness.

Not even somewhat comical, a-la the American Republican party, just downright despicable.

 

[kharma45]

The DUP are a black hole of awfulness.

Not even somewhat comical, a-la the American Republican party, just downright despicable.

Allegedly one of their MPs (might be an MLA, can't remember which) has a gay son. Must be fun.

 

[munroe]

I've been referring to this place as a 'safe' Lib Dem seat for a while now, since our current MP got 48% of the vote. That Lib Dem collapse is fierce, much worse than I thought.

Anyway, encouraging that Greens are looking like Green cond. They're getting my vote.

Think they're getting my vote also.(Sheffield) I actually like the sound of a lot of their policies. Much more than any of the other parties I know that there's pretty much an impossible chance of any sort of majority but if they can at least win a few more MP's then it's a start.

 

[Lego Boss]

Anyone looking forward to the next general election in eighteen months?

Eighteen months? What about eighteen weeks?

 

[CyclopsRock]

Would you say the risk of post hoc punishments is adequate at the moment to act as a preventative measure? Why do we not see stories such as the MMR one on TV news broadcasts if preventative regulation is impractical?

We do see things like that on TV - like McAlpine. Like The Silver Fox showing a list of people he'd heard were paedophiles on TV. And newspapers still break a whole lot of stories, including some which I wouldn't like the publication of being in the hands of a body who are appointed in any meaningful way by the government.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I went into debenhams this morning and asked for a fried slice as part of my brekky
they said they don't do it anymore because gluten

I feel this outrage should be getting more play in the election cycle

 

[StealthGoblin]

I went into debenhams this morning and asked for a fried slice as part of my brekky
they said they don't do it anymore because gluten

I feel this outrage should be getting more play in the election cycle

That is nonsense. I had one yesterday at Debenhams. You've been done over there mate!

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

That is nonsense. I had one yesterday at Debenhams. You've been done over there mate!

Damn it.

Thanks for that, will try another Debenhams. At least it's not a chain wide thing

 

[War Peaceman]

who eats in debenhams I mean really come on

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I went to the BHS restaurant once.

Not much election news today, huh....

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

who eats in debenhams I mean really come on

eight item breakfast /w toast man

I went to the BHS restaurant once.

Not much election news today, huh....

I'm sure miliband will be blaming cameron for not doing enough to prevent the deaths of people with high cholesterol soon enough

 

[Walshicus]

who eats in debenhams I mean really come on

I eat breakfast in the Chichester House of Fraser sometimes, but that's only because the shop is such a labyrinth that I worry I'll starve finding the exit otherwise.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I think everyone's given up on the election. Nothing's moving the polls, let's just all stay home for the last two weeks.

Maybe Ashcroft was right - you can't change in 4 weeks what you've failed to change in 5 years.

 

[kmag]

I think everyone's given up on the election. Nothing's moving the polls, let's just all stay home for the last two weeks.

Maybe Ashcroft was right - you can't change in 4 weeks what you've failed to change in 5 years.

I read an academic article which suggests that the active campaigns in the UK rarely produce more than tiny movements, and most that we have in the bracket is simply due to limited polling. Campaigns like 1992 are few and far between. Campaigning is mostly about getting people who you know will vote for you to vote.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I read an academic article which suggests that the active campaigns in the UK rarely produce more than tiny movements, and most that we have in the bracket is simply due to limited polling. Campaigns like 1992 are few and far between. Campaigning is mostly about getting people who you know will vote for you to vote.

I wonder if this has more of an impact on a constituency-to-constituency basis, though? Across the country the numbers might not move, but I wonder if local campaigns - say Reds campaign loads, have tons of volunteers, flyers, lettering, door knocks, stalls in the high street etc - and the blues don't, will that make a difference locally? Then if the next seat along has the opposite, the over all won't budge. Who knows though - I guess that requires the level of polling that even Ashcroft can't afford (if it's even possible - with such a limited polling area, it just might not be possible to ask enough people frequently enough).

People always say that the Lib Dems have good local campaigns and presence, but I dunno if that's actually true given how they usually - they probably not this time - get some bummed by FPTP. Good local campaigns would, to me, suggest that they'd do well out of FPTP.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Saw Labour and Greens out campaigning yesterday. No sign of the Lib Dems, which surprised me.

Nationally, I can't say that I really feel like any of the parties are that keen on getting my vote. Which is a tad disappointing.

 

[Kotetsu534]

I wonder if this has more of an impact on a constituency-to-constituency basis, though? Across the country the numbers might not move, but I wonder if local campaigns - say Reds campaign loads, have tons of volunteers, flyers, lettering, door knocks, stalls in the high street etc - and the blues don't, will that make a difference locally? Then if the next seat along has the opposite, the over all won't budge. Who knows though - I guess that requires the level of polling that even Ashcroft can't afford (if it's even possible - with such a limited polling area, it just might not be possible to ask enough people frequently enough).

People always say that the Lib Dems have good local campaigns and presence, but I dunno if that's actually true given how they usually - they probably not this time - get some bummed by FPTP. Good local campaigns would, to me, suggest that they'd do well out of FPTP.

The Lib Dems do have a group of seats across the country where they've built up strong networks of activists and where they campaign vigorously. That's why they are traditionally resilient to drops in their national vote - their key constituencies reliably beat the national average by 10s of percentage points. The flipside is that spikes in the national vote don't do them as much good as the Tories or Labour, since where they have no presence they often start from an extremely low base.

 

[kmag]

Labour to announce they'd scrap stamp duty for first buyers*


* on houses up to a certain value you'd presume.

I wonder what'll be next on the grand Tory/Labour giveaway. It's getting like an auction where the last two bidders are locked in a battle but have ran out of money (although Labour's wooliness on how much deficit they'll carry allows them a bit of leeway) but are down to pawning watches and items of clothing to get the winning bid in.

I'm pretty sure the Tories already did this for a couple of years at the start of the last parliament.

 

[pulsemyne]

One theory is that both labour and the tories feel there will have to be another election sometime soon so they are saving their money. Might explain the way things are going.

 

[pulsemyne]

OMG at the torygraphs fuck up today. The following is tomorrows front page

Trouble is the forgot about the letters PDF properties.
https://twitter.com/andyjameshicks/status/592445020227141634
Turns out it was from CCHQ and it's been running for weeks on their website.

So lets get this straight, The telegraph makes a big headline about a letter which turns out to be from CCHQ which was comprised of names taken from the tories website. They really do have some shitty journos over there.

 

[nib95]

OMG at the torygraphs fuck up today. The following is tomorrows front page

Trouble is the forgot about the letters PDF properties.
https://twitter.com/andyjameshicks/status/592445020227141634
Turns out it was from CCHQ and it's been running for weeks on their website.

So lets get this straight, The telegraph makes a big headline about a letter which turns out to be from CCHQ which was comprised of names taken from the tories website. They really do have some shitty journos over there.

This is hilarious.

 

[pulsemyne]

Oh it gets funnier as apparently some of those businesses aren't even running anymore and at least one of the names is an ex employee of CCHQ! Hahahahaha!

 

[Acorn]

OMG at the torygraphs fuck up today. The following is tomorrows front page

Trouble is the forgot about the letters PDF properties.
https://twitter.com/andyjameshicks/status/592445020227141634
Turns out it was from CCHQ and it's been running for weeks on their website.

So lets get this straight, The telegraph makes a big headline about a letter which turns out to be from CCHQ which was comprised of names taken from the tories website. They really do have some shitty journos over there.

Oborne continues laughing.

 

[King_Moc]

Oh it gets funnier as apparently some of those businesses aren't even running anymore and at least one of the names is an ex employee of CCHQ! Hahahahaha!

Makes no difference really. It's not like the Torygraph will apologise, and I doubt any of their readers will read The Guardian to see the article taken to bits. This is the problem with the tory media, it's just a constant stream of made up bullshit with no one on hand to go "hang on. This is Bollocks".

 

[Spaghetti]

our print press truly is trash

 

[nib95]

our print press truly is trash

They really need to be put to some of the same standards as our TV media. It's a farce right now. We might not have Fox News, but we certainly have print equivalents.

 

[Jezbollah]

They really need to be put to some of the same standards as our TV media. It's a farce right now. We might not have Fox News, but we certainly have print equivalents.

The thing is, our TV media isnt much better.

 

[PJV3]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/26/conservative-party-is-losing-our-support-over-scotland-warns-dup

It's a strange old world.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

The Tory business letter is quite interesting. Or rather, the reaction to it, and the lack of reaction to the reaction.

All through the campaign the Tory press have been flinging mud and ignoring the considerable backlash toward almost everything they've printed.

When will they realise that ignoring the problem will not make the conversation go away? They're planting stories through social media for people who already agree with them, and the rest of the public are being more and more alienated by it all, calling them out on social media.

It's like they've transferred the principles of the one way conversation press from previous decades without realising the implications of doing it in a public forum.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The Tory business letter is quite interesting. Or rather, the reaction to it, and the lack of reaction to the reaction.

All through the campaign the Tory press have been flinging mud and ignoring the considerable backlash toward almost everything they've printed.

When will they realise that ignoring the problem will not make the conversation go away? They're planting stories through social media for people who already agree with them, and the rest of the public are being more and more alienated by it all, calling them out on social media.

It's like they've transferred the principles of the one way conversation press from previous decades without realising the implications of doing it in a public forum.

Isn't this a perfect example of a "Westminster" thing, though? This thread is 79 pages long and we've all banged on about how the campaigns are doing, whether targeting Ed then Scotland is a bad idea or not, where Labour's policies are populist, Grant Shapps's weird behaviour, newspaper headlines, UKIP gaffes etc.

And in that whole time, the polls have stayed exactly where they were at the start. If people were really turning against The Tory Press™, wouldn't it be manifesting itself somewhere other than Twitter?

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Isn't this a perfect example of a "Westminster" thing, though? This thread is 79 pages long and we've all banged on about how the campaigns are doing, whether targeting Ed then Scotland is a bad idea or not, where Labour's policies are populist, Grant Shapps's weird behaviour, newspaper headlines, UKIP gaffes etc.

And in that whole time, the polls have stayed exactly where they were at the start. If people were really turning against The Tory Press™, wouldn't it be manifesting itself somewhere other than Twitter?

It's manifesting itself in the Tories losing seats and failing to make gains. They're becoming exclusively a regional English party incapable of getting a majority, losing ground to a Labour party that they thought they would crush simply by showing up.

It's causing deepening divisions between England and Scotland and the Tories are already turning on each other.

They're causing heavy damage and are not seeing a single positive from it all.

 

[CyclopsRock]

It's manifesting itself in the Tories losing seats and failing to make gains. They're becoming exclusively a regional English party incapable of getting a majority, losing ground to a Labour party that they thought they would crush simply by showing up.

It's causing deepening divisions between England and Scotland and the Tories are already turning on each other.

They're causing heavy damage and are not seeing a single positive from it all.

But that's all different to it doing them harm. Assuming the polls are accurate, their campaign hasn't lost them any more seats than they'd have lost 4 weeks ago. I'd be the first to agree that it hasn't been a good campaign, but I'm starting to think it doesn't even matter.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I think this graph of the UK Polling Report average (from Jan '15 to present) illustrates all the difference the various campaigns have had:

Edit:

This thread is 79 pages long

Get on 100ppp m8

 

[Timbuktu]

Are there any recent figure to show how politically engaged the public is? Are more people registered to vote this time round? Scotland might still have a referendum hangover, but i just feel that the polls are showing people not really believing what the politician promises and aren't swayed much by the campaigns either way. I guess the turnout will tell us how apathetic people are.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

But that's all different to it doing them harm. Assuming the polls are accurate, their campaign hasn't lost them any more seats than they'd have lost 4 weeks ago. I'd be the first to agree that it hasn't been a good campaign, but I'm starting to think it doesn't even matter.

Tom Newton Dunn ✔@tnewtondunn
CCHQ high priests give a letter from 5,000 small businessmen to the paper of big company bosses and colonels. Sums up all their problems.

And now their papers are fighting amongst each other...

 

[CyclopsRock]

And now their papers are fighting amongst each other...

I think you're over-estimating the sway that CCHQ has on the newspapers. They should be fighting amongst each other. The Spectator, too, have proven that the people best able to criticise the failings of the Tory party are those that actually want them to succeed, rather than those who don't.

 

[kmag]

Has George let Dave into his stash? He's a bit manic atm.

 

[kmag]

In terms of expected late movement in the polls, it might be illustrative to look at the polling from this time (11/12 days out) in 2010

YouGov/SunTimes Con 35, Lab 27, Lib 28
ComRes/IoS Con 34, Lab 28, Lib 29
BPIX/MoS Con 34, Lab 26, Lib 31
IpsosMoril/NoW Con 36, Lab 30, Lib 23

Other than the overstating of the LibDems, the main parties values were relatively close.

IpsosMori got it almost bang on the nose.

 

[CyclopsRock]

In terms of expected late movement in the polls, it might be illustrative to look at the polling from this time (11/12 days out) in 2010

YouGov/SunTimes Con 35, Lab 27, Lib 28
ComRes/IoS Con 34, Lab 28, Lib 29
BPIX/MoS Con 34, Lab 26, Lib 31
IpsosMoril/NoW Con 36, Lab 30, Lib 23

Other than the overstating of the LibDems, the main parties values were relatively close.

IpsosMori got it almost bang on the nose.

Hehehehe, the heady days of the Lib Dems polling above Labour.

 

[kmag]

TNS Scottish VI

SNP 54% (+2),
Lab 22% (-2),
Con 13% (0),
LD 6% (0),
Green 2% (-1),
UKIP 2% (+1)

“The survey of 1003 adults in Scotland reveals that over two thirds (67%) say they are certain to vote. This is higher than the rest of the UK, where 62% said they would definitely vote in the most recent TNS UK-wide poll. Indeed, SNP supporters are most likely to say they are certain to vote (82%)."

 

[CyclopsRock]

I heard a suggestion that, thanks to the Lib Dem collapse and the fact that mostly all Tory marginals in Scotland are with the LD's that les bleus could end up actually picking up a seat in Scotland. That'd be pretty lolsome.