Kssio_Aug
Member
Or maybe just because BC doesnt give them money. It again, doesnt mean consumers dont care, or don't use it!
MCV: PlayStation on Xbox backwards compatibility
- Thread starter TGO
- Start date
Or maybe just because BC doesnt give them money. It again, doesnt mean consumers dont care, or don't use it!
Pathfinder
Member
So now you're invalidating an official Microsoft poll from users who are interested in backwards compatibility?
There's just no winning with you.
KillerSloth
Banned
Re-releases comes with improved features, graphics and even content....not the same. If they just shipped the same game it would be comparable.
Dragon Puncher
Member
It's what you would expect him to say. PSNOW is what Sony can do in regards to a semi solution to BC. Emulating the Cell in software would probably be impossible.
Having "native" BC in Xbone is definitely better though, as long as most games work. Not really a lot else to say here, but I'm impressed that Microsoft's enginers actually pulled it off.
Having "native" BC in Xbone is definitely better though, as long as most games work. Not really a lot else to say here, but I'm impressed that Microsoft's enginers actually pulled it off.
{insert code here}
Member
It's half-baked in the sense that we are completely reliant on publishers unlocking games in order for them to be playable. I just don't see, Rockstar for example, unlocking something like RDR when they could remaster it and sell it for $40.
What else other than PS2 hardware in a PS3 could Sony have dropped from the PS3? The disc drive? No. The HDD? No. Tell me, what else could they have dropped?
And yet it started out just like this one started out, with commitment and lots of pr speak. They got the hurdle of publishers and going on a game by game situation. So when we come back to this at the end of the generation and see how much they actually did, then you can say that it was different than the xbox > 360
Hypereides
Member
I think it's a neat option to have. However, imo, the most frequent usage of the feature is, likely, mostly, existing among a minor demographic of core gamers. Unfortunately, if that is true, it doesn't justify the necessity and demand. The appeal isn't as strong as it was a decade ago.
As pointed out by others, it isn't exactly a low cost product. Certain gamers like to romanticize it being a simple question of flicking a switch. It goes beyond that.
Besides, where do you build this assumption from that it is the primary pull from?
Consumer purchase tendencies, behaviourism, and, electronics/technology have changed rapidly in the last decade. This isn't exactly the main selling point anymore.
KillerSloth
Banned
That Poll is for people already interested in BC...does nothing to prove BC is going to be widely used..it's not rocked science.
It's like putting a poll on a sports team site about the best player on the team, and arguing the #1 player is the best in the whole league..
How many people voted?
Wired only,, bluray less ps3 with a dvd player instead. Yet dropping BC had zero effect.
Exactly, scary people believe PR hook line and sinker still, we will see.
KillerSloth
Banned
EDIT: Please delete duplicate.
This is cool I guess, but to be honest it's almost two years into this generation cycle and I have extremely little interest in playing launch games from last generation on my system.
I know its not just launch games that are BC and more will be added eventually but still i'm not a retro gamer or collector or anything. I want the new hotness. If this was introduced within the first year it along with a "hey trade in your xbox 360 console and get $X off a xbox one bundle" deal somewhere this would've got a lot of peoples attention. But to do it now is a little confusing.
They are remastering titles left and right (not a bad thing in my opinion), and it gets confusing with "hey buy this awesome remaster" to the left and "Hey you can now just play the 360 version which you can pickup for under $3" on the right.
I know its not just launch games that are BC and more will be added eventually but still i'm not a retro gamer or collector or anything. I want the new hotness. If this was introduced within the first year it along with a "hey trade in your xbox 360 console and get $X off a xbox one bundle" deal somewhere this would've got a lot of peoples attention. But to do it now is a little confusing.
They are remastering titles left and right (not a bad thing in my opinion), and it gets confusing with "hey buy this awesome remaster" to the left and "Hey you can now just play the 360 version which you can pickup for under $3" on the right.
TharpDaddy
Member
BC is good for everyone. Microsoft has more incentive for people to buy their console, consumers get access to their digital libraries from 360 and can use their physical copies of games, publishers can give the go-ahead and will make some money from the games now being purchasable on XBO. There's a lot of weird bitterness and console warrior stuff happening in this thread when backwards compatibility is only a good thing. I'm really looking forward to playing stuff like Shadow Complex, Rez HD, and a lot of my other XBLA games that I can't play anymore.
Then half-baked is not the word you should have used. You should have used "limited list", or something similar. Using half-baked implies Microsoft went and half-assed it, which is false.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
People complained that God of War 3 was $40, and that it should have been more than one game, comparing it to MCC for $60.
Gears is one game, not the trilogy for the same price, compared to $60 for MCC.
Things that make you go hmmm (and online has nothing to do with it since Gears is only online with no single player from what I gather now), and those are subjective arguments as to what someone likes better to play.
The same pricing armaments were not as aggressive, or rather, they died down when we found out Gears was not going to be a trilogy, let alone single player at all.
Agreed. Make sure the disk is in the drive and we are good.
{insert code here}
Member
All your 360 games do this? Or just the "select titles" out of your library?
Kssio_Aug
Member
But still people pays 40~60 dollars to them. If they did not offer ANY kind of improvement in a re-release, it would be hard to justify paying for it that much.
Lots of people moved from PS3 to PS4, or X360 to XB1, without finishing some interesting titles they had interest, BC helps with that. Lots moved to the next platform but still did not sell their previous system because there are titles they still play, BC helps with that. Lots changed from X360 to PS4 or PS3 to XB1 and have not tried many games the other platform offered previous gen, BC helps with that!
That said, I'm pretty sure that are lots of people interested in BC, even 2 years into the newest generation.
Pathfinder
Member
AmuroChan
Member
To be used not for BC purposes, but target those who don't own any PlayStations but have a PS Now compatible TV or tablet.
Are you saying PS3 could have dropped the blu-ray drive and include a DVD one instead? Are you saying this?
Led_Zeppelin
Member
I think he make sense. I barely ever used the BC option on my first PS3 and would rather just play on my PS2. BC is a nice feature to have, but the true of the matter is that the core segment of the market is the only sector that would ever care about such a feature and that even among the core members a lot of them will just keep their old consoles and keep using their old consoles. It is a great way for MS to win consumer confidence among core members but I doubt it is going to be a game changer feature.
I think people who disregard BC don't seem to realize what we would be missing out on. The last generation went on for a long time, and we have hundreds of great games as a result. There are still games that I haven't gotten around to playing, like Bayonetta.
Like others have said, Cell is probably what makes BC difficult on the PS4. I would run out and buy one if I knew I could play Demon Souls and MGS4 on it.
Like others have said, Cell is probably what makes BC difficult on the PS4. I would run out and buy one if I knew I could play Demon Souls and MGS4 on it.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
This thread has some real agendas on shown.
Not being backwards compatible was real sore point for both PS4 and Xbox One. Sony started PSNOW and one of the main efforts of that service is that it allows some semblance of backwards compatibility. Now we have posters saying "oh it's actual more for rentals" yeah right. It's about expanding the playstation library by adding PS3 titles no matter which way you spin it. The catch with PSNOW is you have to pay to do it.
Then Xbox reveal that have what is essentially flawless backwards compatibility and you have Sony and GAF users throwing around agenda fueled FUD for no reason.
I played 3 games last night using the Xbox One BC and they all worked flawlessly. The 2 caveats now are microsoft need the publishers permision and multi disc games are still being worked on. Beyond that it's been said multiple times that any game will work (no kinect because the kinect 2 doesn't follow the same input method)
Every game works without needing code alterations and without recompiling.
It just works.
There isn't a need to have an agenda the PS4 is a really good console but in the BC depart Xbox beats it hands down by actually offering it.
Not being backwards compatible was real sore point for both PS4 and Xbox One. Sony started PSNOW and one of the main efforts of that service is that it allows some semblance of backwards compatibility. Now we have posters saying "oh it's actual more for rentals" yeah right. It's about expanding the playstation library by adding PS3 titles no matter which way you spin it. The catch with PSNOW is you have to pay to do it.
Then Xbox reveal that have what is essentially flawless backwards compatibility and you have Sony and GAF users throwing around agenda fueled FUD for no reason.
I played 3 games last night using the Xbox One BC and they all worked flawlessly. The 2 caveats now are microsoft need the publishers permision and multi disc games are still being worked on. Beyond that it's been said multiple times that any game will work (no kinect because the kinect 2 doesn't follow the same input method)
Every game works without needing code alterations and without recompiling.
It just works.
There isn't a need to have an agenda the PS4 is a really good console but in the BC depart Xbox beats it hands down by actually offering it.
And 20+ times they've been wrong. PS Now is Sony's attempt at BC. A lame attempt that charges people to play games they already own, but this time around always online, at really bad prices, and with really bad input lag.
You said. ..
they know it and already answered. Plus have data from ps3 era that despite being requested, it wasn't really a widely used feature. And the costs are obviisly high : include dedicated hw or trying to emulate ab super complex console. Or two of you add ps2.
They listen to their users, as also MS and others do. If they didn't ps4 would not have a dlna media player released just 2 days ago. They just do what makes sense for them and is reasonably viable
{insert code here}
Member
Well kudos to MS for getting the entire 360 library up and running with new features to boot! Wait...
TharpDaddy
Member
Regardless of intent if PSNow is the only option for BC on the PS4 then it will be seen as the bc solution and thus compared to other solutions. It doesn't matter if backwards compatibility was the intent or not if that's the only option to play older games on ps4.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Start over if you trash, broke, or sold your PS3/PSP/Vita. You can never expect a digital console game to work on the next console or another manufacturer's console in the future. That's one thing that makes buying PC games digitally a easier pill to swallow. Window 7 - 8 - 10 it should work or someone will make it work. Nvidia, AMD, Intel, LG, Skynet, drivers will make it work. Heck Apple computer owners can even emulate windows and run games on it.
The good thing is it might be a bit easier for future consoles (haha) to have BC if they stick to AMD perhaps, at the least they are on a familiar architecture.
KillerSloth
Banned
Umm Ps now is a heck of a lot more then BC period, you saying it's not doesn;t change the facts....... If you already own them you would still be able to play them on you r ps3...... Ps now works really well, maybe try it before saying falsehoods. Can MS BC play xbox games on a TV, tablet without a console? Nope.
It's not just the 360 OS you need to emulate. They'd need to map out 360 instructions into XB1 instructions and with different architectures that is not smooth. I suspect when people dissects this thing it wont' turn out to be pure SW EMU.
Fortinbras
Member
PS Now is more limited.
It's not available in my region.
Meanwhile I can play some of my 360 games on Xbox One.
Microsoft got the system of BC to work. They do not have all the titles because they need permission from the publisher, which makes sense because of licenses. Once they have permission, they just apply the wrapper, and in very few cases they have to tinker with the wrapper (multi disc games). Everything works without additional work. How is this half-assed or a half-baked implementation?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Removing Blu-ray? You do realise games that had shipped on BD wouldn't have worked and all future games would have to ship on DVD lol
I don't think much thought is going into your posts.
Ports and PS2 hardware was the only thing they could cut without effecting the platform, if BC wasn't important they wouldn't have made PS2 classics available.
quickwhips
Member
Is the Xbox One BC a streaming service? Why would it be expected to work on TV's and tablets?
No it can't but it can play some of the games that people already own. Maybe more going forward. People still have digital rights to games tied to their accounts but may have sold the console. Now they can play some of those games. Is that not a good thing? And before you ask me yes, I've used PSNow and thought it worked pretty good.
Kssio_Aug
Member
PS Now is indeed interesting, but extremely limited. Where I live I can't even access it because how far we are from the gaikai servers... it also recquires constant internet connection, and for the best it may work I really doubt the input lag won't affect games that recquire more control such as hack'n slash or shooters.
Yeah, you still need a XB1 to play X360 games, but at least wherever you are, connected or not (and that was one of the main resons why MS was criticised at E3 2013), you can play the compatible games just like you did on X360, without any kind of lag or limitation.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I feel the issue is one is how a remake/remaster should be handled with most assets redone whereas the other is seemingly done on the cheap with minimal effort put in and still put out for a ridiculous price.
Pretty sure you gather wrong, Gears comes with the campaign and multiplayer.
Given the limited roll out, and the limited short term roster I'm pretty sure they're doing something like taking 360 code, recompiling into a XB1 environment, bug fixing it and repackaging them for the end user. I could believe they were strict enough in 360 Q&A to keep the bug fixing to min or that their first batch was the ones that worked on the first pass.
A comprehensive EMU it would work on larger portions of the library and I'd expect more bugs because the hardware is distinct. It also wouldn't need to re grab anything. Like the fat PS3 just worked if you popped in a PS2 disk and the less fat one that only had the VMU's worked on 80%.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
It's low level. The Xbox One thinks its playing a game called Xbox 360. That "game" in turn is emulating the 360 hardware layer and redirecting the PPC instructions to the correct calls on Xbox one X86 architecture.
It's vastly different from Xbox > 360 emulation which had specific profile for every game.
It also allows all the cool X1 features like screenshots and game dvr and snap because it's just playing a really "smart" architecture translation program instead of brute forcing them on a system level to the hardware.
Are you being paid for this?
I'm confused, are you saying a poll used to demonstrate there are people out there who want BC in their console doesnt count because.......it was voted for by people that want BC?
At this point you should probably start spelling MS with an $, at least be comfortable with who you really are.
You aren't in the preview program are you? I played Mass Effect and Perfect Dark last night without any issues.
True. First place MS would probably have charged us $5 to re-download our old 360 games.
It's funny this is the exact game my friend played.
Back to the point - they are making their console more attractive with stuff that I mentioned. Plus their console is more attractive by default because many of the games look better on it. They have a lot of cross buy games, etc. And there's no real answer for this, right?
I may be the minority in here, but I really appreciate native 1080p games so I had the last of us and sold it at a loss to get the remaster. If Sony would release Ico remastered/reimagined at 1080p with new textures and visual improvements - I would probably buy it and I have it for free with plus. Am I crazy, maybe but with games that I love (IF I was willing to play them again) I'd choose to buy them as superior versions (discounted of course).
BC is a nice bulletpoint without a doubt - but please keep in mind of what is CURRENTLY BC not making assumptions of what can/will be (it's up to publishers). We should also keep in my mind how many games the average 360 player has. Then how many the folks who buy the console at $200 have. And is that a strong enough reason to upgrade due to BC.
Do I upgrade to the console because I can play my old games on it (maybe I have 4 games) or do I upgrade because the games that are out for it look better on it and more people play on it?
Talking about the preview program. Launch with 100 titles, which ones? Get my point.
The one i want will be ( ME3 which will be available soon). Publishers decision has got nothing to do with this implementation though, which is pretty spectacular. X360 OS emulated so the game has no idea and the X1 sees the OS as a game. The breadth of the library is up to us to badger the publishers though, MS have done what they can. They just need to opt in, theres little investment and a huge amount of goodwill to gain.
{insert code here}
Member
It's not full BC. I'm not arguing about features. My point is content. They settled for what, 100 titles being compatible with this new feature? How big is the 360 library? 1000 games? 2000? They settled for 100. That's pretty half-assed.
You didn't notice I said "probably"
but it's a no briner if almost anyone you ask or see posting say that PSNOW sucks
Wait, what?
They haven't settled for 100, they're beginning with over 100. Lots more to come.
MrGreencastle
Member
That's exactly what it's doing... What about this don't people understand? You can do it right now. Small list since it's in limited preview, but they promised all first party titles will be there bar Kinect titles - with at least 100 titles when the feature is released to public out of preview. EA is on board, Ubisoft is on board, and Bethesda is on board - so far. This is backwards compatibility through and through and it works perfectly. Limited list is due to each title going through QA and repackaging for download (to get game manifest functioning in Xbox One OS - that is full integration with features, titlebars, tiles, splash screens, Live integration, etc.) as well as legal "thumbs up" from publishers to do that, but other than that the games are untouched and running native on the One (edit: in the 360 emulator). As far as the game is concerned it is running on a 360 straight up. Full stop. I've used the feature all yesterday and today and it works as advertised and free.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
It's a safe bet all first party titles will make the cut along big requests like Mass Effect 2 and 3, Bioshock, Call of Duty and Fallout 3 (which is certain) If bethesda are giving Fallout 3 permission then you can bet Oblivion and Skyrim and New Vegas (the entire bethesda line up)