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[ColonelSkills]

Hey Robowarriors GAF.

We should try to schedule a playdate or something. Tonight has taught me that the average IQ of these randoms we get stuck with is about -72.

I would love to play with people are aren't LRM Atlases. It would be oh so nice. Almost...peaceful. Serene. Calming.

Instead of desiring to put my foot through the internet and crush some noodlehead's skull with it on the other side. Either or.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Bah games gotten me into a battletech binge yet pretty much all the books are oop and Catalyst started putting out ebook versions of the classic stuff, some rights issue came up apparently and they have stopped selling them with no idea if and when they will continue to publish the reprints

 

[Woorloog]

New video, Hunchback. http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/08/393-new-video-hunchback

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APGK1Cw80JY

Tonight has taught me that the average IQ of these randoms we get stuck with is about -72.

Welcome to online multiplayer games. This is your standard random team regardless of the game, COD, Halo, Battlefield, World of Warcraft, ARMA, whatever.
Makes me wonder why i keep playing Halo and other games...

 

[Lime]

Man, I haven't had the time to play MW:O in over a week now. Multiplayer always stresses me much more than Singleplayer, as I often have the feeling of competing and winning over others, instead of relaxing and enjoying the experience. So I've just felt like I didn't have the energy to get back into the cockpit.

Tonight has taught me that the average IQ of these randoms we get stuck with is about -72.

I would love to play with people are aren't LRM Atlases. It would be oh so nice. Almost...peaceful. Serene. Calming.

Instead of desiring to put my foot through the internet and crush some noodlehead's skull with it on the other side. Either or.

Just wait until the beta becomes open, then it'll probably get worse. But Piranha has said they are working on the matchmaking in order to filter rookie and veteran players.

 

[Woorloog]

After watching the Hunchback video, i started wondering about ACs...
Why would i use AC/10 at all? UAC/5 deals as much damage (assuming you hit with both projectiles), weights less and takes less space.
AC/5 is also meh, weighting only one ton less than UAC/5... And a medium laser deals as much damage, while weighting only one ton, and heat generation is no issue since you can always add heat sinks with the leftover tonnage...
AC/20 is a good close range weapon. Gauss Rifle is a good long range weapon.
LB-X AC/10 is also a okay weapon, assuming you don't mind it being a shotgun.

 

[ColonelSkills]

Welcome to online multiplayer games.

Just wait until the beta becomes open

Oh yeah, trust me, I definitely know. I'm just lamenting it a bit since the beta community pre-last week was relatively intelligent. I was just hoping to continue that for a little while longer.

But Piranha has said they are working on the matchmaking in order to filter rookie and veteran players.

Yeah, however they choose to implement this, I'm definitely looking forward to it. I played another round last night and was actually put on the other side of the equation. Running with a squad of 5 hunchies who were grouped together and all had similar speed builds. One sided victory isn't that much fun either.

I wonder if it'll be a TrueSkill analog or if it'll be something closer to how Tribes Ascend does it.

Either way, playing with a GAF group should mitigate it a little for the time being, if anyone wants to rock and roll.

 

[Orayn]

After watching the Hunchback video, i started wondering about ACs...
Why would i use AC/10 at all? UAC/5 deals as much damage (assuming you hit with both projectiles), weights less and takes less space.
AC/5 is also meh, weighting only one ton less than UAC/5... And a medium laser deals as much damage, while weighting only one ton, and heat generation is no issue since you can always add heat sinks with the leftover tonnage...
AC/20 is a good close range weapon. Gauss Rifle is a good long range weapon.
LB-X AC/10 is also a okay weapon, assuming you don't mind it being a shotgun.

The AC/10 isn't terribly popular, but the answer to the bolded is impulse. Getting hit with an AC shakes a player's cockpit much more than a laser, making them very nice on close quarters maps.

 

[Woorloog]

The AC/10 isn't terribly popular, but the answer to the bolded is impulse. Getting hit with an AC shakes a player's cockpit much more than a laser, making them very nice on close quarters maps.

That sounds useful but i could have 8 medium lasers and 4 double heatsinks instead of one AC/10 Sure, one AC/10 can shake an enemy but 8 medium lasers will blow him up. Probably shouldn't fire 8 medium lasers at once though...

I'd imagine AC/5 is completly unused, unless people are using default configs for some reason. EDIT, but i'd imaginge Ultra AC/5 being used, is it?

OK, this is not Piranha's fault, Battletech boardgame is incredibly badly balanced, that's FASA fault. It seems that new stuff Catalyst is introducing is relatively balanced but they haven't tweaked the old stuff (compatibility and rules conversion issues).

 

[teepo]

Hey Robowarriors GAF.

We should try to schedule a playdate or something. Tonight has taught me that the average IQ of these randoms we get stuck with is about -72.

I would love to play with people are aren't LRM Atlases. It would be oh so nice. Almost...peaceful. Serene. Calming.

Instead of desiring to put my foot through the internet and crush some noodlehead's skull with it on the other side. Either or.

i'm down. i imagined the mechwarrior fanbase to be a bit more intelligent than the average pc gamer, but i guess not.

4 small pulse laser, 300xl jenner here.

add TEEPO

 

[BattleMonkey]

That sounds useful but i could have 8 medium lasers and 4 double heatsinks instead of one AC/10 Sure, one AC/10 can shake an enemy but 8 medium lasers will blow him up. Probably shouldn't fire 8 medium lasers at once though...

I'd imagine AC/5 is completly unused, unless people are using default configs for some reason. EDIT, but i'd imaginge Ultra AC/5 being used, is it?

OK, this is not Piranha's fault, Battletech boardgame is incredibly badly balanced, that's FASA fault. It seems that new stuff Catalyst is introducing is relatively balanced but they haven't tweaked the old stuff (compatibility and rules conversion issues).

Heatsinks really don't work as well as they do in the boardgame.

 

[Woorloog]

Heatsinks really don't work as well as they do in the boardgame.

So it seemed based on some gameplay footage. Of course the doubles are not available yet, are they?

Oh, and can Ultra ACs jam like in the boardgame? I really hope not...

 

[BattleMonkey]

So it seemed based on some gameplay footage. Of course the doubles are not available yet, are they?

Oh, and can Ultra ACs jam like in the boardgame? I really hope not...

Not yet. And since it's a video game and real time unlike board game, you also have other factors involved besides the new impact of weapons, but fire rates/times. They have lot of little tweaks they can do to change things compared to the tabletop game.

 

[Noisepurge]

Welcome to online multiplayer games. This is your standard random team regardless of the game, COD, Halo, Battlefield, World of Warcraft, ARMA, whatever.
Makes me wonder why i keep playing Halo and other games...

because in Halo, COD and Battlefield retarded team members dont ruin it too much and respawning is quick.

in Operation Flashpoint/Arma and MWO its many many times more painful due to the slower nature of the games and waiting periods.

 

[Woorloog]

Not yet. And since it's a video game and real time unlike board game, you also have other factors involved besides the new impact of weapons, but fire rates/times. They have lot of little tweaks they can do to change things compared to the tabletop game.

Yeah, i know that. And definetly hoping even AC/5 or AC/2 are actually useful weapons in MWO, via fast rate of fire or something at least.
Hmm. Ammo is going to be an issue...

because in Halo, COD and Battlefield retarded team members dont ruin it too much and respawning is quick.

in Operation Flashpoint/Arma and MWO its many many times more painful due to the slower nature of the games and waiting periods.

Moronic team members ruin Halo, COD, BF just as much as they ruin any other game, no matter how fast respawn is. It just means they can get themselves killed again, usually right away...

 

[Shakala]

Most memorable moment in this game so far:

On caustic valley in my dragon walking up to the top of the hill waiting for the other team. Teammate in other dragon walks up behind me, runs into me and we both fall over..... AS AN ENEMY ATLAS IS WALKING UP. GG.

 

[Divvy]

Goddamn I love that Catapult K2 with the twin gauss. The best is when you one shot stupid jenners in the face with it.

 

[Nickiepoo]

Goddamn I love that Catapult K2 with the twin gauss. The best is when you one shot stupid jenners in the face with it.

Enjoy it while it still exists!

 

[Mupod]

Enjoy it while it still exists!

What do you mean? I haven't been keeping up with news lately but if they actually do make it impossible somehow that'd be pretty stupid. And ballistic K2 users will likely just switch to the Jagermech later anyways, which has 2x gauss as a canon variant.

 

[Lime]

What do you mean? I haven't been keeping up with news lately but if they actually do make it impossible somehow that'd be pretty stupid. And ballistic K2 users will likely just switch to the Jagermech later anyways, which has 2x gauss as a canon variant.

Yeah, but Jagermechs are in no way as cool as Catapult K2s. Aesthetics > Functionality

 

[Mupod]

Yeah, but Jagermechs are in no way as cool as Catapult K2s. Aesthetics > Functionality

Can't argue there, considering I picked my Founder mech purely because the Catapult version looked the coolest.

 

[Forkball]

Do you have to complete your profile in order to have a chance to get invited to the beta? Just let me in bro.

 

[Divvy]

Enjoy it while it still exists!

I don't see any reason for them to remove it. It's not like it's massively unbalanced. If anything they're nature's way of dealing with the "too many atlases" problem.

 

[Woorloog]

I don't see any reason for them to remove it. It's not like it's massively unbalanced. If anything they're nature's way of dealing with the "too many atlases" problem.

K2 should be an energy weapons platform, not a Gauss platform.
That said, K2 must have ballistic hardpoints because canonically it carries machine guns. I think.

 

[Mupod]

K2 should be an energy weapons platform, not a Gauss platform.
That said, K2 must have ballistic hardpoints because canonically it carries machine guns. I think.

The funnier thing is the C1 is better for PPCs than the K2. Unless you really, really need to aim straight up or down (??) you're better off having them protected in the torso, plus you get jumpjets for Mechwarrior 4 style sniping. Although PPCs are pretty awful right now.

 

[Woorloog]

The funnier thing is the C1 is better for PPCs than the K2. Unless you really, really need to aim straight up or down (??) you're better off having them protected in the torso, plus you get jumpjets for Mechwarrior 4 style sniping. Although PPCs are pretty awful right now.

And C1 should be a missile boat...

Do all weapons take just one hardpoint?
Because if, say, gauss rifles would take 3 HPs, and K2 would have only 2HPs per side torso, the variant would still work as it is canonically and still allow customization.
Essentially Mechwarrior 4's system, but with critical slots from the tabletop game still existing.

I reckon PPCs are awful because a)they have projectile speed, reload time etc issues, and b)no double heat sinks, am i right?

 

[Noisepurge]

Moronic team members ruin Halo, COD, BF just as much as they ruin any other game, no matter how fast respawn is. It just means they can get themselves killed again, usually right away...

true, but no respawn means you are instantly up against the enemy team alone!

 

[Woorloog]

true, but no respawn means you are instantly up against the enemy team alone!

At least the round ends faster then. I don't have to deal with seeing idiots killing themselves again and again and again...
Besides, once there are no idiots ruining everything, maybe i can take out the whole enemy team alone, guerrilla style.

I'd bet against myself...

 

[Mupod]

And C1 should be a missile boat...

Do all weapons take just one hardpoint?
Because if, say, gauss rifles would take 3 HPs, and K2 would have only 2HPs per side torso, the variant would still work as it is canonically and still allow customization.
Essentially Mechwarrior 4's system, but with critical slots from the tabletop game still existing.

I reckon PPCs are awful because a)they have projectile speed, reload time etc issues, and b)no double heat sinks, am i right?

I like the current system. I don't think freedom is a bad thing and limiting it won't make the game more fun even if it ends up slightly more balanced...it's not like MW4 was and it was far more restrictive. IMO a good compromise would be to change the mech upgrade trees from the general stuff we have now to something specific to the variant. Like the prime Awesome or the Catapult K2 could get some heat dissipation bonuses whereas a C4 catapult could get missile reload time bonuses. Just as a little bonus for sticking to the intended role but nothing that would completely dissuade you from experimenting.

PPCs have the same problems that ballistic weapons have, meaning that they are very vulnerable to lag issues due to their travel time. But on top of that it just seems like they do awful damage. Plus there's the minimum range, and ERPPCs have utterly insane amounts of heat buildup. Not that you can't kill people with them, but after seeing my shot pass harmlessly through a moving mech's torso or watching a double PPC impact do no real damage at 450m it just makes me want to go back to gauss rifles.

 

[Woorloog]

I like the current system. I don't think freedom is a bad thing and limiting it won't make the game more fun even if it ends up slightly more balanced...it's not like MW4 was and it was far more restrictive. IMO a good compromise would be to change the mech upgrade trees from the general stuff we have now to something specific to the variant. Like the prime Awesome or the Catapult K2 could get some heat dissipation bonuses whereas a C4 catapult could get missile reload time bonuses. Just as a little bonus for sticking to the intended role but nothing that would completely dissuade you from experimenting.

PPCs have the same problems that ballistic weapons have, meaning that they are very vulnerable to lag issues due to their travel time. But on top of that it just seems like they do awful damage. Plus there's the minimum range, and ERPPCs have utterly insane amounts of heat buildup. Not that you can't kill people with them, but after seeing my shot pass harmlessly through a moving mech's torso or watching a double PPC impact do no real damage at 450m it just makes me want to go back to gauss rifles.

Hmm, interesting idea. I'd say better than my idea, because my idea kinda artificially restricts things without a real reason.
(I had no issues with MW4 system, it did make mechs rather unique. Until Mektek came and made everything practically an omni and made omnis normal mechs...)

I heard that netcode has some issues at the moment but Piranha is working on that.
ERPPCs are not viable weapons without double heat sinks.
Also, PPC minimum range should be just 90 meters (3 hexes, one hex is 30 meters)... how does that work in MWO? Reduced damage in minimum range or what?

 

[Mupod]

Hmm, interesting idea. I'd say better than my idea, because my idea kinda artificially restricts things without a real reason.
(I had no issues with MW4 system, it did make mechs rather unique. Until Mektek came and made everything practically an omni and made omnis normal mechs...)

I heard that netcode has some issues at the moment but Piranha is working on that.
ERPPCs are not viable weapons without double heat sinks.
Also, PPC minimum range should be just 90 meters (3 hexes, one hex is 30 meters)... how does that work in MWO? Reduced damage in minimum range or what?

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but yes they do reduced damage inside the minimum range. I think it's just like the dropoff when you go past the weapon's effective range, only backwards and much more severe. I HAVE finished people off inside the 90m range with them.

ERPPCs have no minimum range. If you're careful you can keep mechs at 90m anyways, it's not like you're gonna be firing PPCs nonstop so you have time to set up the shot.

 

[Lime]

Although I'm biased since I'm also using a dual gauss cat, the option of replacing machine guns with gauss rifles is completely fine from a gameplay standpoint. I *love* piloting my dual gauss cat against Assault-heavy opposing teams, because it is such a good counter to especially the many new players only piloting Atlas'es (sp?). I think 70 % of my kills in my K2 is against Awesome and Atlas mechs, so I think the dual gauss cats serve their purpose in balancing the game.

Meanwhile, whenever an engine-modified Hunchback or simply a light mech gets close to me, I'm in a much more dire situation than what I would have been against 1 or 2 Assaults.

From a lore-standpoint I can see why Gauss rifles in a K2 doesn't make sense and I would understand if Piranha chose to rely on the rules of the fictional universe rather than game balance.

 

[Woorloog]

ERPPCs have no minimum range. If you're careful you can keep mechs at 90m anyways, it's not like you're gonna be firing PPCs nonstop so you have time to set up the shot.

TT rules man, ERPPC had no minimum range there for some reason. Guess it was to balance the extra heat along...

 

[sp3000]

The balance in this game is pretty bad at the moment, especially due to the reliance on tabletop for damage and heat.

PPCs are totally worthless. AC/20 is worthless compared to gauss rifle. Large lasers produce way too much heat for their damage.

 

[BattleMonkey]

The balance in this game is pretty bad at the moment, especially due to the reliance on tabletop for damage and heat.

PPCs are totally worthless. AC/20 is worthless compared to gauss rifle. Large lasers produce way too much heat for their damage.

But they are not sticking to the tabletop rules so far. Things are just off in general about many things.

Balance issues are to be expected this early on, so much still left to do

 

[Divvy]

Regardless, I am so freaking hooked to this game right now.

 

[Woorloog]

But they are not sticking to the tabletop rules so far. Things are just off in general about many things.

Balance issues are to be expected this early on, so much still left to do

They said they would follow TT rules. So, damage, weapon weight, ammo, heat, range should be the same as in the boardgame. Piranha tweaks rates of fire, loading times, projectile speeds... what else that is not tied to tabletop rules?

 

[BattleMonkey]

They said they would follow TT rules. So, damage, weapon weight, ammo, heat, range should be the same as in the boardgame. Piranha tweaks rates of fire, loading times, projectile speeds... what else that is not tied to tabletop rules?

They said that, but they haven't delivered that and for a real time video game they are going to have to change many things too. Lot of things right now are not yet matching up to what folks expect. Lot of tweaking will still need to be done and lot of functionality is still not in.

 

[Woorloog]

They said that, but they haven't delivered that and for a real time video game they are going to have to change many things too. Lot of things right now are not yet matching up to what folks expect. Lot of tweaking will still need to be done and lot of functionality is still not in.

Are you saying some weapons don't match their TT counterparts?

If it were up to me, i wouldn't follow the TT rules really, rebalance all the weapons across the board.
Doesn't help that certain weapons have more use vs specific enemy types... types that won't appear in MWO. Machine guns for example, pretty useless in a mech vs mech fight but add some light vehicles and infantry and suddenly they're very good.

 

[Giolon]

Are you saying some weapons don't match their TT counterparts?

If it were up to me, i wouldn't follow the TT rules really, rebalance all the weapons across the board.
Doesn't help that certain weapons have more use vs specific enemy types... types that won't appear in MWO. Machine guns for example, pretty useless in a mech vs mech fight but add some light vehicles and infantry and suddenly they're very good.

Machine guns actually rattle the target's cockpit pretty decently that it'll throw many pilot's aim off. (BTW does GAF not care about NDA breakers?)

 

[Llyranor]

 

[sp3000]

Which is really not a good idea, because tabletop is one of the worst balanced games around

 

[BattleMonkey]

Which is really not a good idea, because tabletop is one of the worst balanced games around

Mainly because of just too much content for a game that lets you generally do whatever you want. Theres too many mechs, too many weapons, and gear. They have only so much they can do but constantly add on to the various settings which in such a limited scope makes lots of mechs redundant, and configurations to break. You have such a small range of numbers to work with and then you toss in a bunch of variations of the same thing. Giving players basically absolute freedom to do as they like just lets the players break the game as they see fit, which the video game needs to stay away from.

Are you saying some weapons don't match their TT counterparts?

If it were up to me, i wouldn't follow the TT rules really, rebalance all the weapons across the board.
Doesn't help that certain weapons have more use vs specific enemy types... types that won't appear in MWO. Machine guns for example, pretty useless in a mech vs mech fight but add some light vehicles and infantry and suddenly they're very good.

Pretty much impossible to balance the table top game, they would need to toss out so much and streamline it to be more in line with modern miniature table top games. Much of Battletech is very archaic in design but it's fans won't let them change it too heavily. And as the time periods moved forward it all just gets worse with each new era and it's new variations of the same old weapons.

 

[Noisepurge]

Machine guns actually rattle the target's cockpit pretty decently that it'll throw many pilot's aim off. (BTW does GAF not care about NDA breakers?)

don't think it breaks any Gaf posting rules, but you can get banned from the game if you break it out here and you can be traced to an account ;D

 

[Sethos]

The Atlas is so ridiculous, everyone is using it and if you aren't equipped with a nuclear arsenal your best bet is running in smaller mechs.

 

[Mupod]

The Atlas is so ridiculous, everyone is using it and if you aren't equipped with a nuclear arsenal your best bet is running in smaller mechs.

They're common for a few reasons. The main one is that it's the most expensive mech so it ended up being an extremely popular choice for Elite Founders, likewise new players might think that more expensive = better. Another misconception is that since it's the heaviest armored that it's the most survivable, but just 'taking a lot of hits' won't keep you alive until the end of the match as consistently as being able to avoid bad situations. It's nice to be able to take damage when matches with randoms devolve into a massive close range brawl but against an organized team you are a big fat target.

Lately I've seen a lot of LRM boat atlases, but it's not like that configuration is unbeatable. Just really dangerous if left alone.

As for hard counters, Jenners will absolutely destroy a novice Atlas pilot and hit-and-run tactics work well on even a good one. Gaussapults were made to kill Assault mechs, if one has its back to you it's dead in seconds if it doesn't immediately turn around. And players who think they're invincible just because they are 100 tons tend to wait a little bit too long to do that.

 

[Woorloog]

How many usable critical slots do arms have?
In the boardgame, IIRC, all locations except head have 12 slots, head has 6.
But both legs and arms have only 8 usable slots due to actuators taking up total of slots per limb...
How then is it possible for Centurion variant to mount an AC/20 in the arm? AC/20 takes, according to TT rules, 10 slots. Are certain actuators removable from arms?

EDIT oh, wait, can certain weapons occupy multiple locations as in the boardgame? IIRC those weapons are AC/20, Heavy Gauss Rifle, Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle... what else?

EDIT apparently the lower arm and hand actuators don't exist in some desings... http://static.mwomercs.com/img/gallery/3DAC33051F417A171A34BD0F9D330372.jpg
That would leave 10 slots in the arm.

 

[Nickiepoo]

What do you mean? I haven't been keeping up with news lately but if they actually do make it impossible somehow that'd be pretty stupid. And ballistic K2 users will likely just switch to the Jagermech later anyways, which has 2x gauss as a canon variant.

I'm sure the cataphract will do it too, and I want to see that mech released to see if it effects the number of guass kitties. As you said about the C1 though, two guass in the torso is better than two in the arms and the kitties have the extra advantage of being hard to side-torso to take advantage of the XLs they normally carry.

I'd be all for MGs being their own type of hardpoint for most mechs that have them by canon but I guess we'll see.

 

[LordCanti]

I just got the beta (for free, so no bonuses to use), and I'm running into an issue. Basically, my (default kit) Atlas AS7-K overheats in three shots. I can't afford any heatsinks, so is my only option to remove weapons, or do I fire fewer of them at a time?

"I just got the beta (for free, so no bonuses to use), and I'm running into an issue. Basically, my (default kit) Atlas AS7-K overheats in three shots. I can't afford any heatsinks, so is my only option to remove weapons, or do I fire fewer of them at a time?"


You're not supposed to be spamming alpha strikes (Alpha strikes are firing all of your weapons at the same time). It's a game about armor and heat management, so yes, you should fire significantly fewer of them at a time. Setup weapon groups and utilize those.

Do I group them while in the game? I don't see anywhere in the mechlab that will let me group weapons. If there is a wiki or a forum guide out there somewhere, I'd be more than happy to read it (and avoid asking noob questions that a hundred people have already probably asked).

I'd like to avoid ruining matches for my teammates until I have some idea of what I'm doing.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I just got the beta (for free, so no bonuses to use), and I'm running into an issue. Basically, my (default kit) Atlas AS7-K overheats in three shots. I can't afford any heatsinks, so is my only option to remove weapons, or do I fire fewer of them at a time?"


You're not supposed to be spamming alpha strikes (Alpha strikes are firing all of your weapons at the same time). It's a game about armor and heat management, so yes, you should fire significantly fewer of them at a time. Setup weapon groups and utilize those.

 

[sp3000]

The Atlas pretty much breaks the game in it's current state since a good team of pilots will beat out other mechs of equivalent skill in almost any situation. Only light mechs stand a real chance