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[Captain Smoker]

Going back and getting the Media Create threads isn't a big deal, but all the non-standard threads with great data (e.g. Jonnyram's recent 360 software update thread) get lost to the sea...

No problem, I'm here. 8) xD

 

[Liabe Brave]

Even without Monster Hunter the PSP level is amazingly close to NDS. (It depends on how many SKUs Captain Smoker's counting, but I conservatively subtracted 3.)

3rd Party NDS:
Titles: 612
Units: 45.814.893
Average: 74.861

3rd Party PSP:
Titles: 229
Units: 15.632.516
Average: 68.264

I wonder how much of the difference is attributable to larger amounts of shovelware.

 

[Spiegel]

I don't see the point of counting third party sales without Monster Hunter games. Capcom releases MH games on other consoles.

That would be like removing the sales of DQ games on Ds (biggest third party games on the handled). The average shrinks to ~67k and should shrink more (in comparison) with the release of DQIX

 

[Stumpokapow]

I don't see the point of counting third party sales without Monster Hunter games. Capcom releases MH games on other consoles.

That would be like removing the sales of DQ games on Ds (biggest third party games on the handled). The average shrinks to ~67k and should shrink more with the release of DQIX

or it'd be like treating first party and third party games separately

 

[Laguna]

I don't see the point of counting third party sales without Monster Hunter games. Capcom can release MH games on ds.

That would be like removing the sales of DQ games on Ds (biggest third party games on the handled). The average shrinks to ~67k and should shrink more with the release of DQIX

And I don´t see the point excluding 1st and 2nd party sales. Because it gives you a wrong impression about the software sales situation.

 

[Spiegel]

or it'd be like treating first party and third party games separately

There is a difference, Capcom can release Monster Hunter on all the consoles.

 

[Laguna]

There is a difference, Capcom can release Monster Hunter on all the consoles.

That´s a dumb reason, honestly, couldn´t you come up with a better excuse?

 

[Spiegel]

That´s a dumb reason, honestly, couldn´t you come up with a better excuse?

I'm tired of arguing about this. I didn't want to start anything so I'll stop now.

 

[Stumpokapow]

There is a difference, Capcom can release Monster Hunter on all the consoles.

Nintendo can release games on other consoles, but they don't. It's not about what Capcom does with Monster Hunter or what Nintendo does with their games. If you thought that was the point, you got it exactly 100% wrong.

Anyone releasing a game on the PSP is in competition with Monster Hunter directly. Anyone releasing a game on the DS is in competition with Nintendo's games directly. That's the point. If, hypothetically, there was a system where just football games sold well, it might be useful to break out football games when discussing software sales.

Breaking out games is a way of showing whether or not the software ecosystem is robust or narrow. You can also break them out by genre, or by median sales rather than mean, or by showing a distribution of software sales.

If you genuinely believe that it's unfair to break out Monster Hunter games even though the mean-median tilt on the PSP is almost entirely due to them and Crisis Core, then it ought to be doubly unfair and only half as useful to break out Nintendo consoles software sales by first-party/third-party. The fact that you do makes me wonder why mathematically (or even holistically) you feel one is valid and the other is not.

 

[Spiegel]

(...)

I only exclude 1st/2nd party games in the context of "How are third parties doing on X console" and "the future third party support on X console based on the sales of their games" not in the context of "how much software has X console sold"

 

[jarrod]

I only exclude 1st/2nd party games in the context of "How are third parties doing on X console" and "the future third party support on X console based on the sales of their games" not in the context of "how much software has X console sold"

It's a useless comparison, as it's not really representative of any meaningful trend itself. What would be best is comparing like with like (ie: Capcom to Capcom, SEGA to SEGA, Square Enix to Square Enix, etc), and even that doesn't usually take key issues into account (budget, promotion, franchise strength, genre competition, etc).

 

[Stumpokapow]

I only exclude 1st/2nd party games in the context of "How are third parties doing on X console" and "the future third party support on X console based on the sales of their games" not in the context of "how much software has X console sold"

So would you exclude Monster Hunter in the context of "How are non-Monster Hunter games doing on X console" and "the future non-Monster Hunter support on X console based on the sales of their games" not in the context of "how much software has X console sold"?

 

[Spiegel]

I never said it was perfect. But it's better than comparing total software sales between, for example, psp and ds because psp has a lackluster first party support compared with the ds.

So yes, if we are talking about the future third party support on X console I think counting total sales is more misleading than counting third party sales.

 

[Laguna]

I never said it was perfect. But it's better than comparing total software sales between, for example, psp and ds because psp has a lackluster first party support compared with the ds.

So yes, I think counting total sales when talking about the future third party support is more misleading than counting third party sales.

So we should exclude Nintendo published games because Sony can´t deliver? Sounds like a fanboy argument and actually it´s obviously the real reason for all this "but Nintendo software doesn´t count".

 

[Liabe Brave]

So we should exclude Nintendo published games because Sony can´t deliver? Sounds like a fanboy argument and actually it´s obviously the real reason for all this "but Nintendo software doesn´t count".

Actually, there's a perfectly valid reason to exclude Nintendo games on a Nintendo system: they're basically bimodal. Regardless of quality, third-party games have less chance of hitting maximum sales potential on Nintendo systems. If I'm a third-party publisher, excluding first-party sales when trying to develop sales targets makes total sense. (It actually makes a lot less sense on PSP, where the second mode isn't platform owner or even publisher but Monster Hunter; a PSP list that was all-games-but-MH compared to a DS list all-third-party would be more similar for this function.)

When talking about total sales, all publishers and games need to be included. Other questions require other manipulations of the data.

 

[jarrod]

I never said it was perfect. But it's better than comparing total software sales between, for example, psp and ds because psp has a lackluster first party support compared with the ds.

Wii has (so far) had lackluster 3rd party support compared to PSP, and yet strangly I've noticed you relish using the comparison there at any and every opportunity.

Funny, huh?

 

[Link]

Regardless of quality, third-party games have less chance of hitting maximum sales potential on Nintendo systems.

I really don't think this is true at all. You make a great game, it'll sell. The problem is the lack of effort so far.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Hey guys, what's going on in..



........




oh God.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Regardless of quality, third-party games have less chance of hitting maximum sales potential on Nintendo systems.

Why? Do you believe that the success of Nintendo games on Nintendo platforms hinders the sales of third-party titles to that degree, even in genres where Nintendo doesn't have much (if any) presence? If so, do you believe that competition from Nintendo games on Nintendo platforms is more damaging to the "maximum sales potential" of a game than Mega Third Party Game X is to the sales potential of other third-party games on, say, the PSP or 360?

 

[schuelma]

Hey guys, what's going on in..



........




oh God.

It's like a loop.

 

[Spiegel]

Wii has (so far) had lackluster 3rd party support compared to PSP, and yet strangly I've noticed you relish using the comparison there at any and every opportunity.

Funny, huh?

Because usually the important part in the topic of the third party support is how well or bad are third parties generally doing on X console

If third parties have usually good sales on X console it doesn't matter how well or bad are first party games doing. They'll continue supporting the console.

EXAMPLE (by garaph):

Gamecube total first party sales: 15 million Nintendo/Pokemon games (~60 games)
Ps2 total first party sales : 16 million SCEJ games (111 games)

 

[ccbfan]

Wii has (so far) had lackluster 3rd party support compared to PSP, and yet strangly I've noticed you relish using the comparison there at any and every opportunity.

Funny, huh?

You would have a much better point if not for the fact that comparable third party games sell a lot better on the PSP than Wii.

 

[schuelma]

You would a much better point if not for the fact that comparable third party games sell a lot better on the PSP than Wii.

I'm being sucked in here....but what examples do you have? The only clear examples coming to mind are sports titles.

 

[Boulayman]

I'm being sucked in here....but what examples do you have? The only clear examples coming to mind are sports titles.

Jrpgs seem to sell better too ? Though I am not 100% sure about that, just an impression I am having.

 

[schuelma]

So WE 2009 Wii is now coming out April 9 :lol :lol

Konami might as well just skip the release altogether..

 

[schuelma]

Jrpgs seem to sell better too ? Though I am not 100% sure about that, just an impression I am having.

I don't know if I would say that.

 

[Spiegel]

I'm being sucked in here....but what examples do you have? The only clear examples coming to mind are sports titles.

gundam/baseball/musou/football/anime games

Almost every comparable genre.

 

[ccbfan]

Jrpgs seem to sell better too ? Though I am not 100% sure about that, just an impression I am having.

There's also anime games (and of course sports that schuelma mentioned)

and how about comparing the Fate Unlimted fighting game versus TVC. Or the guilty gear comparisons.

heck lets just compare this week Fragile and Zill'0. They both pretty much sold the same if your average out Famitsu and Media Create. Fragile should have destroyed some unknown port in sales.

Then you have the fact that have any Wii third party game over performed like P*P. A game that tripled the sales of its PS2 version.

How much you want bet Tenchu PSP is going to kill the Wii one?

I mean I just went through like quite a few genres here.

 

[schuelma]

gundam/baseball/musou/football/anime games

Almost every comparable genre.

So sports and anime stuff.

Very comprehensive

 

[schuelma]

There's also anime games (and of course sports that schuelma mentioned)

and how about comparing the Fate Unlimted fighting game versus TVC. Or the guilty gear comparisons.

heck lets just compare this week Fragile and Zill'0. They both pretty much sold the same if your average out Famitsu and Media Create. Fragile should have destroyed some unknown port in sales.

Then you have the fact that have any Wii third party game over performed like P*P. A game that tripled the sales of its PS2 version.

How much you want bet Tenchu PSP is going to kill the Wii one?

I mean I just went through like quite a few genres here.

You can't just compare random games that might share a genre. Ridiculous.

I fully admit that for certain types of games/genres PSP is a safer bet. But let's not get carried away. There are certainly 3rd party Wii efforts that would sell less on PSP.

 

[Oldschool]

You can't just compare random games that might share a genre. Ridiculous.

I fully admit that for certain types of games/genres PSP is a safer bet. But let's not get carried away. There are certainly 3rd party Wii efforts that would sell less on PSP.

Like what?

 

[Spiegel]

There are certainly 3rd party Wii efforts that would sell less on PSP.

Like "Expanded audience", music and party games?

I agree. Wii can get those.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I like how its compared to count out all 1st party titles on all consoles with counting out just MH just on PSP. Pretty fair I'd say.



Also, wow at WE Wii, they may as well update the rosters or something (like those Final Evolution / Liveware Evolution did on PS2) given the delayed release.

 

[jarrod]

Because usually the important part in the topic of the third party support is how well or bad are third parties generally doing on X console

If third parties have usually good sales on X console it doesn't matter how well or bad are first party games doing. They'll continue supporting the console.

EXAMPLE (by garaph):

Gamecube total first party sales: 15 million Nintendo/Pokemon games (~60 games)
Ps2 total first party sales : 16 million SCEJ games (111 games)

"How 3rd parties are doing" isn't really revealed by looking at lump 3rd party sales though. And disregarding 1st party performance entirely gives a skewed view of overall software potential. These are inherently meaningless figures without context.

Should Enix look strictly at the top 3rd party performers on each machine to determine how well Dragon Quest could do where? Would Hudson be better off looking purely at bulk 3rd party sales on each machine and spreading support accordingly? What you're suggesting (ie; using just overall 3rd party sales to determine 3rd party potential and support) is hugely shortsighted.

 

[jarrod]

gundam/baseball/musou/football/anime games

Almost every comparable genre.

That's "almost every comparable genre".

Wii hasn't even gotten a real Musou game yet. :lol

 

[Cipherr]

Because usually ....

Because because because..... dude stop. How can you not see what your doing. Stop making exception when and where you want to try and make things fit in your self defined bubble. It doesnt work like that, and never will.

 

[schuelma]

Like "Expanded audience", music and party games?

I agree. Wii can get those.

Do you think Resident Evil games would do as well on PSP?


What about Dragon Quest?

 

[Spiegel]

"..."

We're going in circles. You have asked me that here and I responded you here

Of course third parties have to do a more "in depth" analysis. but for us comenting the state of third parties on x console and the future support I prefer my take.

That's "almost every comparable genre".

Wii hasn't even gotten a real Musou game yet.

Sengoku Basara vs Musou Orochi. Both ports, both comparable games. Oh wait, the psp game was a late port, the wii game was a day one release

Because because because..... dude stop. How can you not see what your doing. Stop making exception when and where you want to try and make things fit in your self defined bubble. It doesnt work like that, and never will.

Okay

Do you think Resident Evil games would do as well on PSP?


What about Dragon Quest?

Yes, those games have sold from acceptable to great. Big name games do fine on psp

 

[jarrod]

Sengoku Basara vs Musou Orochi. Both ports, both comparable games. Oh wait, the psp game was a late port, the wii game was a day one release

lol

Okay, now how does the average Musou game compare to the average Basara game in general?

 

[Spiegel]

lol

Okay, now how does the average Musou game compare to the average Basara game in general?

I have something better, I know you love ratios.

Same day release:
PS2 Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes 176,562
WII Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes 21,296

Ps2 = 8.4xWii

8 months delay:
PS2 Musou Orochi: Maou Sairin 411k
PSP Musou Orochi: Maou Sairin 150k (and counting, it's surely going to do close to 180k)

Ps2 = 2.8xPsp (it's going to end at ~2.3)

 

[Pachael]

Thanks Smoker. I found these bombs* interesting:

Disgaea > Touching

NDS - Disgaea: Prince of the Demon World and the Red Moon 19.637
NDS - Dokidoki Majo Shinpan! 2 19.574

Don't try this again, Capcom:
NDS - Viewtiful Joe Scratch! 5.661

Not casual enough?
NDS - The Sims 2 3.700

Oh dear:
NDS - Metal Slug 7 3.200

SEGAAAA
NDS - English of the Dead 1.500

* In before someone says 'b-b-but it's fulfilled its shipment, or made profit etc'. <20k can't be a hit, right?

 

[jarrod]

I have something better, I know you love ratios.

Same day release:
PS2 Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes 176,562
WII Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes 21,296

Ps2 = 8.4xWii

8 months delay:
PS2 Musou Orochi: Maou Sairin 411k
PSP Musou Orochi: Maou Sairin 150k (and counting, it's surely going to do close to 180k)

Ps2 = 2.8xPsp (it's going to end at ~2.3)

Can i get content comparisons, release dates and pricepoints?

 

[jman2050]

It's almost reassuring that despite how boring and predictable JPN sales threads get, you can always count on crazies coming out of the woodwork every once and a while.

 

[t3nmilez]

Went to Tsutaya yesterday. Had copies of RM2 in. Top three Wii games were Mario Tennis, Taiko, and Fragile. Maybe Fragile has potential to stay alive.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

It's almost reassuring that despite how boring and predictable JPN sales threads get, you can always count on crazies coming out of the woodwork every once and a while.

The thing is though, it is because of this that these threads have become boring and predictable.

 

[markatisu]

Went to Tsutaya yesterday. Had copies of RM2 in. Top three Wii games were Mario Tennis, Taiko, and Fragile. Maybe Fragile has potential to stay alive.

Thats interesting, what are we looking for outside of sales info in regards to Fragile's success?

2nd shipment and lack of price collapse would be good signs I think

 

[schuelma]

Yes, those games have sold from acceptable to great. Big name games do fine on psp

I wasn't asking you about big names in general, I was asking you about RE and Dragon Quest. Do you think those games would sell as well as Wii games? Do you, for instance, think a RE4 port would sell as well on PSP as it did on Wii?

 

[Stumpokapow]

NDS - Disgaea: Prince of the Demon World and the Red Moon 19.637

Hard to tell how bomba this is. The original sold 125k, the PSP rerelease sold 40k, the PSP budget version sold around 40k. I'm not sure what Disgaea DS shipped but it's not the sort of catastrophic bomba you might think based solely on the number.

NDS - Dokidoki Majo Shinpan! 2 19.574

This is a major bomba.

Sells for 2000 yen as of last October and rapidly dropping.

Don't try this again, Capcom:
NDS - Viewtiful Joe Scratch! 5.661

Bomba + early DS title = Megabomba.

Did around 12 times that much in the US, still bomba.

 

[donny2112]

Not casual enough?
NDS - The Sims 2 3.700

The Sims is a huge seller on DS. Just not in Japan.

So WE 2009 Wii is now coming out April 9 :lol :lol

Maybe they have a really neat feature they wanted to add in, and this'll be the last year that it isn't a same-day release with the PS360 versions in Japan.

 

[jarrod]

The Sims is a huge seller on DS. Just not in Japan.

Sim City did pretty well though.