Support NeoGAF

[Odysseus]

I think games like No More Heroes, SSX, DQ Swords, and FF:CC count as 3rd-party games.

Of course the 360 needs 3rd parties a lot more than the Wii does.

On the flip side, Nintendo's strategy of relying first and foremost on first party didn't quite work out so well on Nintendo 64 or GameCube. Nintendo's lack of compelling third party support is a real eye opener if you just aren't into Nintendo games. I'd say Nintendo needs third parties to the same degree as anyone else, unless they're satisfied with that same niche they've served the past two generations (which they very well may be, since they are profitable).

 

[cank stoochie]

to be perfectly honest looking at the wii's pathetic 2007 lineup compared the awesome ps3 and 360 line up, i'll be extrememly surprised if it can keep up with these numbers.

 

[soundwave05]

Wait, what did they got from square enix, another crystal cronicles and a DQ spin-off? More than MS got, but not impressive to say the least.

And, uh, what are Capcom's ambitious plans for the Wii? Nothing compared to their GC plans, considering how the "Capcom 5" turned out.

And please with the EA/Ubisoft support, red steele was crap, and EA isn't known for quality.

Bottom line is you can't name 5 games which will sell Wii to their intended audience in 07, or beyond for that matter.

So how many 3rd party games did it take for Nintendo to sell the DS?

Come to think of it, how many Pokemon, Mario, Donkey Kong, games did it take for Nintendo to sell the DS?

 

[soundwave05]

On the flip side, Nintendo's strategy of relying first and foremost on first party didn't quite work out so well on Nintendo 64 or GameCube. Nintendo's lack of compelling third party support is a real eye opener if you just aren't into Nintendo games. I'd say Nintendo needs third parties to the same degree as anyone else, unless they're satisfied with that same niche they've served the past two generations (which they very well may be, since they are profitable).

If Nintendo had the same level 3rd party support it wouldn't be a console race, it would be a blow out.

And as much as I like Nintendo, I don't really relish that particular scenario because one company should not have that much total power. As far as Nintendo rebooting their image, bringing in some new gamers, and expanding their userbase to get some solid 3rd party support -- hey I'm all for that.

 

[Branduil]

On the flip side, Nintendo's strategy of relying first and foremost on first party didn't quite work out so well on Nintendo 64 or GameCube. Nintendo's lack of compelling third party support is a real eye opener if you just aren't into Nintendo games. I'd say Nintendo needs third parties to the same degree as anyone else, unless they're satisfied with that same niche they've served the past two generations (which they very well may be, since they are profitable).

Was it 3rd party software which made the DS successful?

 

[AniHawk]

On the flip side, Nintendo's strategy of relying first and foremost on first party didn't quite work out so well on Nintendo 64 or GameCube.

Workin' good so far for Wii.

Just sayin' is all.

 

[smallsoft]

So how many 3rd party games did it take for Nintendo to sell the DS?

Come to think of it, how many Pokemon, Mario, Donkey Kong, games did it take for Nintendo to sell the DS?

Ahh...running back to the DS point again, eh?

I will say this again, two different Markets. Nintendo is not the incumbent here, but the challenger for its 2nd straight round.

 

[Odysseus]

If Nintendo had the same level 3rd party support it wouldn't be a console race, it would be a blow out.

Uh huh. Right.

 

[Odysseus]

Was it 3rd party software which made the DS successful?

Was it 3rd party software that made the GBA successful? Wait, I know, DS isn't like GBA, but it dang sure is like the Wii.

 

[capslock]

:lol Boys boys!

 

[soundwave05]

Ahh...running back to the DS point again, eh?

I will say this again, two different Markets. Nintendo is not the incumbent here, but the challenger for its 2nd straight round.

It's two different markets, but similar approaches.

The DS was actually being outsold by the PSP before it started to tap into the "Touch Generations". NSMB and Pokemon only came out after that fact.

And clearly the Wii is not suffering the same identity crisis the GameCube was. People just sort of saw the GameCube as a 'middle child' ... it always got lost in the mix between the PS2 and XBox.

Brand awareness for the Wii is amazing considering Nintendo's marketing past (which has been dismal to say the least). The turnaround is pretty much night and day. The DS is successful because of its unique, easy-to-access interface and the non traditional software they designed for that.

To say the Wii is GameCube 2 is a gross over simplification. And that's my issue with Odysseuss. Talks a big game, but when you flip the tables on him ... just another shrinking violet with the same auto-pilot excuses (novelty this, and gimmickry that).

 

[apujanata]

Jan-March NPD, If Wii > 360 cumulative for those months, I'm out until the April NPD data comes up. 360 > Wii, bye bye soundwave.

Or

Considering 360 has a 3 million unit lead (roughly) on Wii right now, if at any point during calendar year 2007 NPD data Wii is within 2 million units, bye bye Odysseus until the following month's NPD data is reported. However, if during the same timeframe the 360 lead grows to 4 million units, see you later.

Option A, quicker result, guaranteed winner/loser. Option B, longer term, perhaps no one is sent packing. Or Option C, just continue talking hyperbole. That's fine, too.

Hmm. Interesting. IF I am a betting type, I would choose the following :
April - June NPD, Wii vs 360. Why April - June, not Jan to March ? Jan to March, Wii might have supply constrain (sold out), just like X360 did in 2006. April to June, there shouldn't be any supply constraint for Wii (if there is, Nintendo will be very, very happy).

If you wanted to, I can bet against you, but not using ban. I do not like ban bet that I am not confident to win .

 

[909er]

Truth is this never happens. I see these stupid list wars all the time with the PSP/DS as well ... it's whether or not you have the real big guns. Not a bunch of pretty good games.

Dreamcast had a lot of pretty good games too. Not even system sellers or games to expand its audience though.

I'd call both Lost Oddyssey and Blue Dragon big games. And you're also going on assumptions that they WON'T be big games, and the titles for Wii WILL be big games. I didn't think Dead Risinbg would sell well, but didn't it put Capcom in the black? And the fact that 360 has a rather high attach rate shows that the userbase is more than just Gears of War/Halo 3. Hell, what evidence is there that the Wii experiment has succeeded? Outside of Zelda, what game on Wii has really taken off and made every one say "Wow"? So far, it seems that it's not the gimmick selling the system, it's Zelda.

Again, I think Wii will do good, but you're making alot of assumptions that are one sided and don't take the whole picture into account. For example, the original Xbox did beat the GC, in almost every PAL region. And that was after the GC started off kicking the Xboxs ass badly. Whose to say that 6 monthes from now European gamers will still be all about Nintendo?

 

[jimbo]

Nintendo has had announcements from Square-Enix, Capcom, EA, Ubi Soft and others. They may not be games that you're specifically interested in, but that's a moot point. There's a reason why Nintendo sold Silicon Knights btw. How that's Rare deal working out for MS again? Yeah, thought so.

Nintendo needs supplimentary support, they don't need 3rd parties to carry their console like Sony and MS do. If they get a good userbase going early on, they will get support to fill in the periods between their big releases. That was the main problem with the N64 and GCN. If they take Japan ... this dynamic changes. I don't care if the 3rd party support is from Mars, Nintendo just needs someone else to fill in the blanks and suppliment what they bring to the table.

So you've nevered heard of Halo box? You know Halo...the biggest console first party franchise of last generation? Or what about GoW? The, so far, best selling game of this generation also published by MS?

If Halo didn't carry the Xbox than I don't know how else you would define what that was.



PS: What you are saying about fill-ins......already happened. On both N64 and GC. Both of those HAD third party support. When people say they didn't have third party support they're not saying they really had NO third party support. They're saying all they had is exactly what you believe is all Nintendo needs: fill-ins no one cares about.

That worked out fabulous for them didn't it?

 

[Odysseus]

To say the Wii is GameCube 2 is a gross over simplification. And that's my issue with Odysseuss. Talks a big game, but when you flip the tables on him ... just another shrinking violet with the same auto-pilot excuses (novelty this, and gimmickry that).

:lol

Just say when Wii will take over, that's all. Good grief, I talk a big game, unwilling to back it up, are you in the same thread I am? Just wondering.

 

[soundwave05]

I'd call both Lost Oddyssey and Blue Dragon big games. And you're also going on assumptions that they WON'T be big games, and the titles for Wii WILL be big games. I didn't think Dead Risinbg would sell well, but didn't it put Capcom in the black? And the fact that 360 has a rather high attach rate shows that the userbase is more than just Gears of War/Halo 3. Hell, what evidence is there that the Wii experiment has succeeded? Outside of Zelda, what game on Wii has really taken off and made every one say "Wow"? So far, it seems that it's not the gimmick selling the system, it's Zelda.

Again, I think Wii will do good, but you're making alot of assumptions that are one sided and don't take the whole picture into account. For example, the original Xbox did beat the GC, in almost every PAL region. And that was after the GC started off kicking the Xboxs ass badly. Whose to say that 6 monthes from now European gamers will still be all about Nintendo?

Exactly. I just used Odysessy's logic, but flipped it around. Now you have a better idea of how asinine it is.

 

[Scalemail Ted]

I'd call both Lost Oddyssey and Blue Dragon big games. And you're also going on assumptions that they WON'T be big games, and the titles for Wii WILL be big games. I didn't think Dead Risinbg would sell well, but didn't it put Capcom in the black? And the fact that 360 has a rather high attach rate shows that the userbase is more than just Gears of War/Halo 3. Hell, what evidence is there that the Wii experiment has succeeded? Outside of Zelda, what game on Wii has really taken off and made every one say "Wow"? So far, it seems that it's not the gimmick selling the system, it's Zelda.

Again, I think Wii will do good, but you're making alot of assumptions that are one sided and don't take the whole picture into account. For example, the original Xbox did beat the GC, in almost every PAL region. And that was after the GC started off kicking the Xboxs ass badly. Whose to say that 6 monthes from now European gamers will still be all about Nintendo?

Well since youre posting in a media create thread I would point out that Wii sports and Wii play have both outsold Zelda by healthy margins.

 

[soundwave05]

:lol

Just say when Wii will take over, that's all. Good grief, I talk a big game, unwilling to back it up, are you in the same thread I am? Just wondering.

Wii will overtake 360 worldwide in 2008 if Nintendo can successfully create more games for non-gamers on the system. Happy? Infact I think the 360 will be no.3 worldwide when it's all said and done.

 

[smallsoft]

It's two different markets, but similar approaches.

The DS was actually being outsold by the PSP before it started to tap into the "Touch Generations". NSMB and Pokemon only came out after that fact.

And clearly the Wii is not suffering the same identity crisis the GameCube was. People just sort of saw the GameCube as a 'middle child' ... it always got lost in the mix between the PS2 and XBox.

Brand awareness for the Wii is amazing considering Nintendo's marketing past (which has been dismal to say the least). The turnaround is pretty much night and day. The DS is successful because of its unique, easy-to-access interface and the non traditional software they designed for that.

To say the Wii is GameCube 2 is a gross over simplification. And that's my issue with Odysseuss. Talks a big game, but when you flip the tables on him ... just another shrinking violet with the same auto-pilot excuses (novelty this, and gimmickry that).

Yeah, but what is keeping the DS so successful is its huge library of games. Everyone in the industry has been dumping their popular low end 2d brands onto this baby, its practically the GBA 2.

Sony from the get go said it didnt want that low end sprite crap on its sexy psp, and that could have been their downfall. Forcing developers to cough up PS2 like development costs for an unproven handheld.

 

[Odysseus]

Wii will overtake 360 worldwide in 2008 if Nintendo can successfully create more games for non-gamers on the system. Happy?

if?

You've been talking like it's a done deal the entire time the last few pages. Talking a big game and backing it up, indeed. :lol

 

[edwardslane]

to be perfectly honest looking at the wii's pathetic 2007 lineup compared the awesome ps3 and 360 line up, i'll be extrememly surprised if it can keep up with these numbers.

I do beleive Wii has the following major titles already for 2007

Metroid prime 3
super smash brothers Brawl
mario galaxy
Dragon quest game

These 4 titles alone are going to be big. I didn't even list any other games that have the potential to do well.. or new games that will be unvieled at E3 and ready for 3rd and 4th Q 2007

nintendo's wi-fi online games for wii will be out in 2007 as well.. games like mario party should be a blast.. a well established franchise that should be fresh with the new controller and all the new types of mini games as a result of the new controller.

games such as animal crossing or new original games and 3rd party surprize hits.. Also the hundreds of virtual console games to be released..

secret of mana 3 player co-op multiplayer.. Going to be so much fun!

I'm sure Wii will have a great 2007 already and we stilldon't know half the titles that willbe released in 2007.

Also with the wii performing so well out of the gate and it's cheaper and faster development times then the ps3 and xbox360 i'm betting we're going to hear alot of new software annoucements in the comming months from 3rd parties.

 

[AniHawk]

Wait, I know, DS isn't like GBA, but it dang sure is like the Wii.

Now you're making sense.

 

[Odysseus]

Now you're making sense.

Only because you're here.

 

[soundwave05]

Yeah, but what is keeping the DS so successful is its huge library of games. Everyone in the industry has been dumping their popular low end 2d brands onto this baby, its practically the GBA 2.

Sony from the get go said it didnt want that low end sprite crap on its sexy psp, and that could have been their downfall. Forcing developers to cough up PS2 like development costs for an unproven handheld.

The PSP has a huge library of games as well. Consumers don't know or don't care what the development costs are.

The person who wants Nintendogs doesn't give a shit about the PSP most likely. That's just Nintendo willing to take a risk on something different and being rewarded by an under-utilized audience.

Which is exactly what they're doing with the Wii. The 360/PS3 can have all the fancy graphics in the world. It doesn't doesn't mean anything to the person who just wants something simple to pick up and play with their family and friends. All the Halos and GTAs in the world aren't going to stop the Wii from selling if Nintendo can continue to make hits for this audience.

 

[jimbo]

Wii will overtake 360 worldwide in 2008 if Nintendo can successfully create more games for non-gamers on the system. Happy? Infact I think the 360 will be no.3 worldwide when it's all said and done.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Branduil]

I really do feel like I'm in a time warp here. These arguments seem so familiar.

 

[soundwave05]

:lol :lol :lol

It's a fair assessment. You can't win worldwide just off North America. Sony and Nintendo both will still get solid sized userbases in North America, MS does not "own" North America.

Until they turn things around in Europe and Japan, I think it's more than fair to be skeptical of them selling more worldwide than Sony or Nintendo. 3 markets > 1 last time I checked.

 

[Odysseus]

I really do feel like I'm in a time warp here. These arguments seem so familiar.

It won't be long now. Somebody's going to be eating some crow soon enough. Might be me, who knows.

 

[MrSardonic]

what a surprise, this thread is a fanboy shit-storm

so when are the hardware numbers out?

 

[DefectiveReject]

Or what about GoW? The, so far, best selling game of this generation also published by MS?

How many units has Gears sold?
I believe Wii sports is up around 2m units sold so far.

 

[smallsoft]

The PSP has a huge library of games as well. Consumers don't know or don't care what the development costs are.

The person who wants Nintendogs doesn't give a shit about the PSP most likely. That's just Nintendo willing to take a risk on something different and being rewarded by an under-utilized audience.

Which is exactly what they're doing with the Wii. The 360/PS3 can have all the fancy graphics in the world. It doesn't doesn't mean anything to the person who just wants something simple to pick up and play with their family and friends. All the Halos and GTAs in the world aren't going to stop the Wii from selling if Nintendo can continue to make hits for this audience.

No way near as many as the DS, and with serious droughts between quality games.

More importantly, I could argue that these traditional 2d games, and all the old school ports is whats really selling the DS, especially in Europe and NA, and NOT the innovative use of the touch pad. Honestly, that feature seems so tacked on for a majority of titles.

Look for DS's consistent top sellers, and the majority will probably be traditional 2d games with huge brand awareness....

Nintendogs and Brain Age seem to be the anomaly, not the norm.

 

[Branduil]

It won't be long now. Somebody's going to be eating some crow soon enough. Might be me, who knows.

Actually it will probably be over a year before we have any idea what's going to happen.

 

[apujanata]

70 more post to go to reach 700. Quick guys, do it before we get the H/W. This thread is really "Holy ****king crap" edition.

 

[Odysseus]

How many units has Gears sold?
I believe Wii sports is up around 2m units sold so far.

If we're going to use pack-ins, I guess Hexic HD is the most popular thing on the planet right now.

Actually it will probably be over a year before we have any idea what's going to happen.

I have a feeling it will be pretty evident in the first half of 2007, not the second. You'll see lasting trends.

 

[jimbo]

How many units has Gears sold?
I believe Wii sports is up around 2m units sold so far.

:lol :lol

Holy crap you guys are on a roll!

 

[apujanata]

How many units has Gears sold?
I believe Wii sports is up around 2m units sold so far.

Wii sports does not count, since it is bundled in US (and Europe, IIRC).

 

[Striek]

Errr....yeah. Despite the fact its not near that (and if it was, Gears won't be far off that mark either), thats laughable.

Until they turn things around in Europe and Japan, I think it's more than fair to be skeptical of them selling more worldwide than Sony or Nintendo. 3 markets > 1 last time I checked.

Nintendo still has to turn things around in EU and JPN, and Sony has to prove it can hold steady. Whats your point.

 

[DefectiveReject]

If we're going to use pack-ins, I guess Hexic HD is the most popular thing on the planet right now.

No i'm talking games counted as units sold.
Wii sports is counted as a sold game as was Duck hunt and Mario Bros

Hexic HD isn't.

MS fanboys bringing the shit down in a Japanese sales thread!! those extra sales gave you a bit of an uplift didn't it!!

 

[soundwave05]

No way near as many as the DS, and with serious droughts between quality games.

More importantly, I could argue that these traditional 2d games, and all the old school ports is whats really selling the DS, especially in Europe and NA, and NOT the innovative use of the touch pad. Honestly, that feature seems so tacked on for a majority of titles.

Look for DS's consistent top sellers, and the majority will probably be traditional 2d games with huge brand awareness....

Nintendogs and Brain Age seem to be the anomaly, not the norm.

Nintendogs and Brain Age are anomalys alright ... just like Grand Theft Auto and Super Mario 64 and Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy.

C'mon this is a cop out of an arguement. They're "non-games" so when they do well it must be an "anomaly", some type of fluke. Lets not give Nintendo any credit for making a non-traditional type of system and then backing up their PR talk with actual games for it and those games turning into killer apps.

The DS has shown huge sales increases in all three major territories following the release of Nintendogs. Infact, prior to Nintendogs, the DS was actually losing to the PSP in all those markets (even Japan).

That's not an anamoly. That's what we call a killer app. I would agree with you if the DS took off only with the staple old GBA franchises -- Pokemon and Mario and what not. But this is not what happened.

 

[Branduil]

I have a feeling it will be pretty evident in the first half of 2007, not the second. You'll see lasting trends.

Just like with PSP/DS.

Oh wait.

 

[Odysseus]

No i'm talking games counted as units sold.
Wii sports is counted as a sold game as was Duck hunt and Mario Bros

Hexic HD isn't.

MS fanboys bringing the shit down in a Japanese sales thread!! those extra sales gave you a bit of an uplift didn't it!!

Do me a favor. Next time the more Xbox friendly among us shred me to pieces for ripping into Microsoft on many a topic, remind them that I am on their side, thanks?

 

[imastalker co.]

soundwave is only talking about what's actually happening. the industry is definitely in the middle of a shift. changes in japan are almost complete it seems, and things are really heating up in the west.

sure, maybe only DS can walk the walk, but everything points to Wii barely putting its shoes on.

 

[icecream]

No, I don't think any of those will be system sellers in the U.S. Write it down and take a picture if you want. Even a lot of 360 fanatics would look at that list and tell you straight up that's not a very mainstream-looking list of hit titles.

They wouldn't be major system sellers on any other console either. So what? It seems that you like to say such games can't become hits because clearly the 360/Xbox has a past history of big-name J-RPGs doing poorly in all territories.

Oh wait...

 

[DefectiveReject]

Errr....yeah. Despite the fact its not near that (and if it was, Gears won't be far off that mark either), thats laughable.


Nintendo still has to turn things around in EU and JPN, and Sony has to prove it can hold steady. Whats your point.

HA HA you guys are hilarious, trying to laugh of my argument, why because you don’t like it??

Gears is no where near 2m.
It was 1m in US and probably less than half that in Europe.

Wii Sports is counted, the unit price of Wii Sports is included in the price of a purchased Wii. Check the Japanese price without it.
And as I said previously I believe the biggest selling games of all time are pack ins Mario, Duckhunt and Tetris!!


I love your point about Japan and Europe for Nintendo though. that especially bought a tear to my eye.

 

[MrSardonic]

Nintendo still has to turn things around in EU and JPN

:lol :lol :lol

 

[jimbo]

It's a fair assessment. You can't win worldwide just off North America. Sony and Nintendo both will still get solid sized userbases in North America, MS does not "own" North America.

Until they turn things around in Europe and Japan, I think it's more than fair to be skeptical of them selling more worldwide than Sony or Nintendo. 3 markets > 1 last time I checked.

Call me crazy but I for one do NOT believe any of this European 360 bombing that's running rampant on GAF. I've seen enough articles that are putting the 360 somewhere close to 2 million by the year end in Europe. It was at 700k in the UK ALONE at the end of Nov.

I'm sorry but 2 milion is significant for a $400 console. Sure it's not a runaway success, but to put it in perspective, it's the equivalent of what the 360 is doing in NA, with it selling 500k a month in Nov. Simply getting the job done.

I think Europe as well as NA is one price drop away from skyrocketing 360 sales to levels Wii simply will never match.

 

[Branduil]

What the heck happened to this thread anyways? Why are we talking about NPD sales in a MediaCreate thread?

 

[apujanata]

I wish that all of this Europe, US and other territory talk STOP.

We are in M-create thread, so please talk about Japan sales ONLY.

 

[AniHawk]

What the heck happened to this thread anyways? Why are we talking about NPD sales in a MediaCreate thread?

Blue Dragon sparked some false hope it looks like.

 

[smallsoft]

Nintendogs and Brain Age are anomalys alright ... just like Grand Theft Auto and Super Mario 64 and Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy.

C'mon this is a cop out of an arguement. They're "non-games" so when they do well it must be an "anomaly", some type of fluke. Lets not give Nintendo any credit for making a non-traditional type of system and then backing up their PR talk with actual games for it and those games turning into killer apps.

The DS has shown huge sales increases in all three major territories following the release of Nintendogs. Infact, prior to Nintendogs, the DS was actually losing to the PSP in all those markets (even Japan).

That's not an anamoly. That's what we call a killer app.

No but its very evident that most publishers are just using established brands, and creating a bunch of little spin-off or "gaiden" titles, and then tacking-on the use of the touchpad.

Brain age and the Nintendogs are an anomaly in the sense that they actually were developed with the sense of revolving design around the touchpad, instead of just tacking it on as an afterthought like so many other publishers have.

I am not saying that Nintendo doesn't deserve credit for these games, they most certainly do. But they obviously haven't convinced developers to follow suit in developing games designed aroudn the touchpad, and not just slapping on another cheaply made port for huge $$$$