Segata Sanshiro
Member
While not on the Dewey or Opoona level of being able to count off the number of sales one-by-one inside of an hour and a half, it's still ...hmmm, optimistically, it's still an utter disaster.Grecco said:
Media Create Sales 10/22 - 10/28 2007
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Segata Sanshiro said:
your analogies are like a choral of angels singing the star spangled banner while god rocks out on an electric guitar.
ethelred said:
How can this be corrected?
If we assume that Nintendo has chosen the Wii Fit/casual path and up to now hasn't seriously courted 3rd parties..then there won't be any relief anytime soon right?
Yes, it's good for a 360 game in Japan but that doesn't change the fact that it was still worse then the previous installment. The 360 can only hide behind the "It did good for a 360 game" crap for so long, in the end sales are sales and if they are below then that's just it, the platform is not important.twinturbo2 said:
When this game sits next to the others in the series, the sales will still look bad and saying "Good for a 360 game" won't change that.
You're right. Overall, PSP is still poor for sw sales. I mean, having a few big sellers from a few major titles isn't much incentive for most developers when you have DS, a much more popular, much cheaper to develop for system, with a much better track record for 3rd party sales.ksamedi said:
At the moment, DS is the only reasonable alternative for 3rd parties in Japan. It's where all major efforts should go for the immediate future, like DQ9.
If it's going to happen, it's going to take a while for Wii to grow a big enough installed base to have DS level healthy 3rd party sales, but I think most 3rd parties have only recently realised what's going to happen in the home console market with the dominance of Wii, so the timing should work well.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I'd rather roleplay as a bitter Nintendo who's pleased at the success they've made on their own.Segata Sanshiro said:
Ignoring those that are, yes, this is true. I'd also note our most successful game is something new. Taking Samurai Warriors and making a limited waggle spinoff isn't exactly attempting either path very well.
Mario Party created a sub-genre of its own, became the de facto standard, and a decade later we're reaping the benefits. Why don't you do that? Trying to beat Mario Party at its own game is a recipe for sloppy second place at best.
Hey, if you want to come back to Wii later when we've once again marked our territory with a dominating presence and there's more Square Enix on the side, be my guest. I don't anticipate it will work out much better than your Mario Party clone, but hey, by that time even sloppy thirds should make you a handful of yen. Good luck with that whole PSP software thing, though.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Start opening the wallet/vault and spend some money for once to secure major third party games. Monster Rancher 3 is a good start.schuelma said:
Of course, this is a bit risky, so Nintendo isn't terribly prone to do it.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Segata Sanshiro said:
Monster Hunter 3. Monster Rancher was awful.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
SEGA is doing better than ever financially, and they're producing some excellent games of late too. They're doing a fine job as a third party.
D.Lo
Member
So many comparisons, so many predictions, so many conclusions. If the Japanese market has taught me anything over the last three years, it's that nothing can be predicted.
The Wii is not the PS2, nor is it the DS, nor is it the GameCube. Everything is so different (in both context and content) most of the comparisons are meaningless.
I thought they hated Nintendo because their games' sales would be dwarfed? But if Galaxy has no legs (or the same-ish legs as Sunshine had), then Dragon Quest Swords, the closest thing to a high profile, traditional, decent quality original 3rd party Wii game, will end up outselling it. That should sound like opportunity for 3rd parties.
The Wii is not the PS2, nor is it the DS, nor is it the GameCube. Everything is so different (in both context and content) most of the comparisons are meaningless.
So now third parties will avoid the Wii because first party games don't sell?Segata Sanshiro said:
I thought they hated Nintendo because their games' sales would be dwarfed? But if Galaxy has no legs (or the same-ish legs as Sunshine had), then Dragon Quest Swords, the closest thing to a high profile, traditional, decent quality original 3rd party Wii game, will end up outselling it. That should sound like opportunity for 3rd parties.
PSP, seriously? The platform with a lower attach rate then the Wii, even though it's been out three times as long?Segata Sanshiro said:
Graphics Horse
Member
ethelred said:
???
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126894
6. (PSP, Bandai Namco) ACE COMBAT X Skies of Deception - 60,584
Segata Sanshiro
Member
It takes more than one to make a trend.avatar299 said:
charlequin
Banned
JoshuaJSlone said:
I'm saying that the DS never had this perception. By virtue of being the successor to a success instead of a failure, it started with the perception that it would receive decent games. Wii's success didn't change the perception that it would receive GCN-level software support, which means an equivalent effort from Nintendo (we can argue now about whether it even got an equivalent effort) produced a shittier result.
It's a sad world we live in.plagiarize
Banned
i have a crazy idea... lets not judge 3rd party success on any individual title be it a bomb or a hit.schuelma said:
Moor-Angol
Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:
Wii Fit
Wii Music
SSBB
Mario Kart
Final Fantasy Crystal Bearers (maybe)
Animal Crossing
Monster Hunter 3
a new DQ title (if S-E will do that)
there are 8 titles, and just based about games which will be released around 2008 (except for DQ game, but considering DQ:S probably did better than SMG first week and it's going to 500k, it's normal to think S-E will make another game based on DQ universe on Wii).
about SMG sales, i don't think first week is so relevant, but the important thing is if the game will have long legs or not, and considering there are 8 weeks of strong sales, before talking about "bomba" or "not bomba" we should wait till middle January
Segata Sanshiro
Member
The problem here is that both sides can "Yes, but..." until the cows come home. While I've purposefully ventured out onto a limb in this discussion, I don't think it's anywhere near as unlikely as I once considered it that the Wii will not catch with hardcores at all and the home console market will hand off to the portable market for that audience nearly entirely.
Interestingly, Zack and Wiki highlights the incompetence of many 3rd parties with the casual audience on Wii.schuelma said:
Z&W has nothing to do with a casual game and has never had any chance of appealing to a casual market. This should be obvious to anyone who's played it, it's 100% hardcore, to the extent the graphics really do the game a disservice. Capcom really was off their head if they wanted this to appeal to Wii's main audience, and judging by those Japanese, everybody's having a great time, videos, they really hoped it would do well in this market when it clearly never had a chance.
It also highlights how most 3rd parties don't get, and can't create, what Nintendo does with Wii Sports, Brain Training etc. It's just not what they do.
Eteric Rice
Member
Hopefully if the Wii gets a few more hardcore gamers, it can up that part of the player base.
Right now it's kind of empty.
Right now it's kind of empty.
charlequin
Banned
schuelma said:
It's not quite too late. Nintendo has a huge warchest and there are third-parties that, I think, are interested in giving Wii a chance if the risk isn't there.
What Nintendo needs is three more core-gamer titles in 2008. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that the Matsunoton is true, and they have a seriously hardcore S/RPG coming for next year. In that case: they should pay flat-out for a full-fledged (but non-numbered) RE using the RE4wii engine, and... I dunno. A sim racer? Ace Combat Wii? The PS3 is still weak enough that a good 2008 lineup can start a DS-like transition to the Wii, but if Nintendo is anything like some of the people in this thread they're going to overconfidently miss their chance and either the PS3 will slowly crawl up to meet them or console gaming will die in Japan.
Eteric Rice said:
I agree that short term this is Nintendo's best hope- there are a decent amount of "traditional" games coming the next 2 months or so, and maybe the combination of these titles will change the perception.
While I appreciate your venturing, Hasn't this been the case for the past year? It's not like Nintendo needs the Wii to start outselling the DS. These numbers are only bad when compared to the DS. In every way with the other consoles sans PS2/PSP in terms of hardware sold Wii is killing everything. It's controlling a significant, albeit smaller and maybe less important console market.Segata Sanshiro said:
plagiarize
Banned
when we have enough data to say for sure that we're looking at a trend, rather than a succession of games that didn't catch public interest. i guess we'll look at historical trends to work out whether or not we have enough data, but i imagine that should it continue, there will be less people arguing about it in time, until everyone agrees.schuelma said:
we have some 3rd party games that exceeded expectations, and some which bombed... frankly expectedly. zack and wiki didn't bomb because it was 3rd party and 'nintendo users only buy nintendo games' because if that was indeed the people that owned a Wii, they'd have all bought Mario too.
why did RE4 surpass expectations? did Ghost Squad surpass expectations?
i'm not providing answers, just posing questions. do most 3rd party games on any system make a profit?
i'm not saying i have a great system for this, just that evaluating 3rd party performance on a small sample of data is a bad system. not pretending i'm smart enough to come up with a good one, but i'll know it when i see it.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I'm not seeing a lot of evidence for the existence of the hardcores in any significant numbers on any of the new home consoles. This could change, but I'm not very optimistic about it anymore.