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Media Create Sales 11/12 - 11/18 2007

DS is not iPod, everyone already explained this to you. iPod's software works on every iPod, it doesn't require major retooling for Apple and all of its providers in order to keep supplying content, and a new iPod doesn't render the old software collection useless or old.

By your line of thought, the most obvious thing for Nintendo to do is to come out with a DS Slick and push DS2 off until 2011.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
AdmiralViscen said:
DS is not iPod, everyone already explained this to you. iPod's software works on every iPod, it doesn't require major retooling for Apple and all of its providers in order to keep supplying content, and a new iPod doesn't render the old software collection useless or old.

I know the DS is not the iPod, but I really don't know what to tell you if you don't think that Nintendo's post-Nintendogs/BT business strategy is modeled in a similar way to Apple's.

I do not think a DS2 will render the DS library useless or old. I think it will add on to it. In the same way that the iPod Video allows functionality that the oldschool iPods did not while still preserving all of the functionality of the oldschool iPods, I believe the DS2 will do the same.

Let me ask you this--when do YOU think Nintendo will launch its next handheld?
 
Stumpokapow said:
I know the DS is not the iPod, but I really don't know what to tell you if you don't think that Nintendo's post-Nintendogs/BT business strategy is modeled in a similar way to Apple's.

I do not think a DS2 will render the DS library useless or old. I think it will add on to it. In the same way that the iPod Video allows functionality that the oldschool iPods did not while still preserving all of the functionality of the oldschool iPods, I believe the DS2 will do the same.

Let me ask you this--when do YOU think Nintendo will launch its next handheld?

So you're assuming that the DS2 will have two screens and one touch screen, which is a rehash, which seems to be the total opposite of Nintendo's philosophy since 2004.

The best thing for Nintendo to do, especially if it's following apple, is to come out with DS Slim with downloadable GB/GBC games or some shit, and put off DS2 for as long as possible.

2010, unless Sony acts sooner, and I don't think they will for the same reasons Nintendo won't. There's no reason to disturb profitability.
 
And there's no reason why it would do that by 2008 (for a 2009 hardware launch).

Nintendo can surely ride out a $100+ DS through 2008, and if Nintendo is somehow seeing declines by the end of the year they can drop the price down to $99 through 2009 and release their next console in 2010.

A DS Slim with a Virtual Console on it will certainly enhance current and future profitability better than a rushed launch of a full on DS 2.

Good luck getting these blue ocean people accustomed to 4-5 year hardware lifespans. Look at NES.
 
Stumpokapow said:
They did not upgrade the iPod in response to the Zune or anything else. They upgraded the iPod in response to the iPod.

The iPod business is really different from a game system, though.

* A music player doesn't involve a brand new format every time a new version is released. Even the iPod (which does have some lock-in with the iTMS aac files) can play the same files with every revision.

* A music player is a hardware-oriented purchase. Any music can be played on any iPod; the differentiator is how much storage space, what UI the player has, whether it can play video, etc. A game system is generally differentiated on what software it can run.

* A music player is generally part of an entire product line of variants that provide the same core functionality (playing music) but have different secondary functionality (playing video, storage, appearance, etc.) so that people can pick the version that fits their price range best.

Now, it's true that Nintendo -- actually, the entire game hardware industry -- is looking to emulate elements of this model, by having consumers choose from different models, creating more new models, etc. But the way to do this is very specifically not to launch new models and new hardware generations. That's expensive and eliminates your investment in a software platform.

The thing to do is just to make more revisions of the hardware you already have, with new secondary features but the same basic software functionality. I could easily see Nintendo making new DSes with internal memory and VC support, or media capabilities, or built in TV tuners; different models with larger screens, or TV outs; and various other variations that don't change the software platform. But there's no real reason to actually release a "DS2" when remodels like this would be dramatically more profitable (and can fight off a sales plateau as existing owners upgrade to new, "improved" hardware -- as they did with the DS Lite.)

EDIT: I'm not sure why I wasted all this time being wordy when AdmiralViscen said it all in like three lines.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
AdmiralViscen said:
A DS Slim with a Virtual Console on it will certainly enhance current and future profitability better than a rushed launch of a full on DS 2.

I'm certainly open to the possibility of something between another new redesign and a new system. I'm not so sure that the Virtual Console is in and of itself compelling enough to draw folks in, given that the Wii VC has a <1.00 attach rate right now.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
charlequin said:
The iPod business is really different from a game system, though.

But the portable hardware business has done this as well. GBA was GB backwards compatible. DS was GBA backwards compatible. I can't imagine that DS2 wouldn't be DS backwards compatible with addition BC done at the software level.

The thing to do is just to make more revisions of the hardware you already have, with new secondary features but the same basic software functionality. I could easily see Nintendo making new DSes with internal memory and VC support, or media capabilities, or built in TV tuners; different models with larger screens, or TV outs; and various other variations that don't change the software platform. But there's no real reason to actually release a "DS2" when remodels like this would be dramatically more profitable (and can fight off a sales plateau as existing owners upgrade to new, "improved" hardware -- as they did with the DS Lite.)

I think there's a certain line between what constitutes a new model and what constitutes a new design. For example, while pretty much everyone would agree that the jump from iPod 5 to iPod 5.5 is incremental at best, there's honestly a world of difference between iPod 1 and iPod Classic... or even iPod 5 and iPhone/iPod Touch.
 
Stumpokapow said:
I'm certainly open to the possibility of something between another new redesign and a new system.

The thing is that they're completely, totally different things. A redesign (even one with a lot of new secondary functionality) supports the blue ocean model and can keep the success of the DS going for a long time -- potentially indefinitely. A new system cuts off all of the assets the DS has and forces Nintendo to start over. They would only rush into a new system if they had completely ignored the lessons of the iPod.

But the portable hardware business has done this as well. GBA was GB backwards compatible. DS was GBA backwards compatible. I can't imagine that DS2 wouldn't be DS backwards compatible with addition BC done at the software level.

That only eases transition, it doesn't eliminate the division. If you have an iPod 1.0, you can keep playing new iTMS downloads or ripped CDs forever; if you don't need more functionality, you can keep using it breaks. A new system forces old users to upgrade if they want to use the latest software titles.

It's this forced-upgrade of hardware that is antithetical to the casual market. People can be convinced to upgrade on their own if they see new features they want; but only gamers are accustomed to having no choice. There's no reason whatsoever to create a whole new software platform until and unless you can prove (usually by pointing to a new system from a competitor) that your consumers aren't interested in new software for the old platform anymore.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Oh knock it off. First you were comparing business strategies (tenuous at best), and now you're comparing hardware revisions. Nintendo is not Apple, Apple is not Nintendo, no matter how much mutual audiences enjoy their products or how much "aesthetics" that they mutually embrace. And all of this to suggest...what, that the DS2 is due in 2009? 2010?

Seriously?

To put it in perspective, the DS hasn't yet seen what could be the biggest selling title in handheld history (DQX). It's like predicting when the PS3 was going to be released before FFIX, FFX and DQVIII were released. Pointless and a bit premature.

Maybe we get an upgrade (DS->DSL->DSXL) as early the end of 2009, but a full hardware revision? No fuckin way.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
charlequin said:
The thing is that they're completely, totally different things. A redesign (even one with a lot of new secondary functionality) supports the blue ocean model and can keep the success of the DS going for a long time -- potentially indefinitely. A new system cuts off all of the assets the DS has and forces Nintendo to start over. They would only rush into a new system if they had completely ignored the lessons of the iPod.

Again, I don't think this is the case. I expect the successor to the DS, whenever it comes out, will have full DS BC as well as software BC for previous handhelds. I don't think a new product and continuing support for the old product are mutually exclusive.

PantherLotus said:
Oh knock it off. First you were comparing business strategies (tenuous at best), and now you're comparing hardware revisions.

No, I'm simply saying that everyone is proposing hardware revisions as an ALTERNATIVE for new products. What I said in the last post was that in many other sectors, including for Apple in the iPod, the line is blurred between the two.

Nintendo is not Apple, Apple is not Nintendo, no matter how much mutual audiences enjoy their products or how much "aesthetics" that they mutually embrace. And all of this to suggest...what, that the DS2 is due in 2009? 2010?

I know that Apple isn't Nintendo. That's not my stance. My stance is that Nintendo is operating on a business plan that's very different from the traditional industry attitude. To try to figure out what Nintendo will do in the future, it's probably best to look at how other companies who use similar business strategies have done. I know that the iPod isn't the DS. I think the ways in which they are similar are sufficient to help us figure out where Nintendo might take the DS or their portable gaming business in general in the future.

My core point is this: I expect Nintendo to fire off a new DS before they are commonly expected to, and before the DS begins to die out. I think this is consistent with the way they've proceeded over the last few years. I think Nintendo's operational strategy right now is to convince the customers that they need a new product rather than to respond directly to consumer demand. This is consistent with both their hardware strategy (in terms of the Wii but also the DS to a lesser extent) and their software strategy (in terms of both non-game/extended titles and core titles like SMG)

To put it in perspective, the DS hasn't yet seen what could be the biggest selling title in handheld history (DQX).

DQX hasn't even been announced. DQIX will be released for two years before the hypothetical late-2009 release of a followup unit. I'm also virtually positive that DQIX (or DQX) will not outsell Pokemon Blue/Red/Green. I'd say it'll do the 4-5 million that many expect, but I can't imagine it'll do >6 million.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
I meant IX, but I get your point. I generally object to the allusion of Nintendo/Apple similar strategy theory, though. But you make a good argument.
 
Stumpokapow said:
Again, I don't think this is the case. I expect the successor to the DS, whenever it comes out, will have full DS BC as well as software BC for previous handhelds. I don't think a new product and continuing support for the old product are mutually exclusive.

Right, well... that's what you're wrong about. You can't fully support two different software platforms at the same time; you can't let long-time hardware owners be able to keep buying software without new hardware if you create new hardware that plays its own unique new software. This isn't a fuzzy issue or something that's debatable; it's one of the most basic rules of the industry.

If you move your software target from platform A to platform B, sales of software are now reliant entirely on people who bought hardware that supports platform B. As long as your new hardware supports only software A, you can keep selling software to everyone who's ever bought your hardware. The only thing that's kept gaming from ever succeeding at this is the competition from obviously "better" new systems.

Anyway, you keep going on about "something different from the rest of the industry" and then being like "Nintendo will revolutionize the industry by having a 5-year product lifecycle! You know, like no one has ever done before!" All the while, what you're citing as your example is something that suggests exactly the approach I'm describing -- keeping your software platform the same while you diversify your hardware offerings -- which is something brand new to the industry. So... how thoroughly have you thought your position through to begin with?

EDIT: Seriously, I agree that selling new kinds of hardware is something Nintendo will keep doing, but... you seem to be completely glossing over the basic economics of software platform changeovers, when all the while "more DS Lite-style makeovers" are much closer to the source you're citing as an example anyway.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
CoolTrick said:
I can't believe how many of you fail to see how Nintendo's business strategy has been a lot like Apple's recently.

"A lot like" does not mean "DS2 IN 2009"

edit for clarity:
having a similar business model (disruption/mass market/etc) does not mean that their product lines should be compared.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
charlequin said:
Right, well... that's what you're wrong about. You can't fully support two different software platforms at the same time; you can't let long-time hardware owners be able to keep buying software without new hardware if you create new hardware that plays its own unique new software. This isn't a fuzzy issue or something that's debatable; it's one of the most basic rules of the industry.

It has pretty largely been done. The GBA continued for two full years with virtually no decline in the US after the release of the DS despite generally full backwards compatibility on the part of the DS. It's only in 2007 that the GBA has actually finally died.

The PSX also continued a good deal after the PS2 came out as well; racking up literally tens of millions of sales after it was supposedly replaced--again, despite full backwards compatibility.

The only other example of proper BC that's been done is the GBA being GBC/GB compatible. In this case, the original product was pretty much headshotted. The XBox also died very quickly after the 360 was launched despite a lack of full BC, but this is largely because Microsoft terminated the XBox by terminating all hardware production pretty much instantaneously.

The handover can be pretty smooth if you are smart about it. If anything, Nintendo was too conservative with the DS in the US because they did their best to overly protect the old product brand at the expense of the new one.

Anyway, you keep going on about "something different from the rest of the industry" and then being like "Nintendo will revolutionize the industry by having a 5-year product lifecycle! You know, like no one has ever done before!" All the while, what you're citing as your example is something that suggests exactly the approach I'm describing -- keeping your software platform the same while you diversify your hardware offerings -- which is something brand new to the industry. So... how thoroughly have you thought your position through to begin with?

There's no doubt that the industry has had short life cycles before. I'm not saying that the idea of launching early is new. It's not. What I'm saying is that, in direct contradiction with the post you made earlier when you expounded about how only the person in the losing position can gain an advantage from launching a new product and forcing a new generation, I believe that if Nintendo can significantly market and differentiate a new product, they can actually gain by going early--this is the respect in which I feel the situation can most directly be compared to the iPod.

Not necessarily the structural changes of the new product, but moreso the idea that despite the fact that Apple is selling iPods as fast as it can make them and despite the fact that it has virtually no competition of substance, it's still firing off generation after generation of new product to keep its brand popular, keep its products new and inventive, encourage double dipping, etc.

To summarize everything I've said over the last ten posts: When you're an unthreatened number one, you need to keep ahead of the curve rather than resting on your laurels or responding directly to supposed competitors. Nintendo's behavior during the Game Boy era is not something that will happen again, because they know that whether or not they're number 1, they can be a stronger number 1 by continuing to move forward.

I think Nintendo will do this by launching a DS2 before people expect them to, probably in late 2009. You seem to think Nintendo will do this by doing incremental upgrades to the DS leading eventually to a DS2 in 2010. Given the overall lack of disagreement between our positions here, I'm not sure why you're so sure that I'm completely off base. We're literally talking about a one year disagreement in timelines.

I don't think there's anything outrageously wrong with the idea that they'll do more incremental upgrades, but I do think that there are some unique advantages to the way I'm talking about and I think the best way they can harness those advantages is to go early.
 

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
Nintendo isn't going to release a true successor to the DS anytime soon, Iwata has already said that he's not concerned with hardware sales anymore and he wants to concentrate on increasing software sales.
 
Stumpokapow said:
It has pretty largely been done. The GBA continued for two full years with virtually no decline in the US after the release of the DS despite generally full backwards compatibility on the part of the DS. It's only in 2007 that the GBA has actually finally died.

No. The GBA hardware continued to sell in the US despite essentially no new software releases. This is the distinction I'm trying to make clear here. When Nintendo upgrades to the DS, they are putting out a new hardware iteration that isn't profitable to sell (or is much less so than the GBA) and simultaneously having to rebuild their software market from scratch -- something that is in no way guaranteed to happen, as the PS3 is busily demonstrating.

Hardware revisions that utilize the same software don't create this gap and therefore don't risk shifting the market to a competitor; they keep the same momentum and share install base with everything you've ever sold before. That's how the iPod works -- when you give your old iPod to your mom to upgrade to a bigger one, then three years later buy shuffles for your kids -- all of you can still play the same AACs, and that will never change. That sort of buy-in momentum isn't possible with what you're proposing -- a DS2 would create a situation where Brain Training 4 comes out and hypothetical-mom's DS doesn't play it.

A new hardware generation is completely different from a new model of the iPod. A DS Lite-style revision is strongly comparable to a different model of the iPod. That's the core of this argument and the basic reason why your position doesn't make sense.

I think Nintendo will do this by launching a DS2 before people expect them to, probably in late 2009. You seem to think Nintendo will do this by doing incremental upgrades to the DS leading eventually to a DS2 in 2010. Given the overall lack of disagreement between our positions here, I'm not sure why you're so sure that I'm completely off base. We're literally talking about a one year disagreement in timelines.

The first difference is that I think the earliest Nintendo could possibly release a successor is 2010, and if they did it would be because pressure from a competitor forced them to do so -- a situation I don't even necessarily expect to happen that soon, because I think that Sony might also freeze the PSP softwareplatform and rely on hardware sales with a variety of revisions for a while. The second difference is that, as far as I can tell, I have a solid grasp of the economics of this situation, while you're relying on an imperfectly applied analogy that ignores the key differences between the DS and the iPod and (therefore) mispredicts Nintendo's behavior.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
charlequin said:
No. The GBA hardware continued to sell in the US despite essentially no new software releases. This is the distinction I'm trying to make clear here. When Nintendo upgrades to the DS, they are putting out a new hardware iteration that isn't profitable to sell (or is much less so than the GBA) and simultaneously having to rebuild their software market from scratch -- something that is in no way guaranteed to happen, as the PS3 is busily demonstrating.

If you only include software n the comparison, the PSX continued to sell software quite well for several years after the PS2 launch and indeed for a while after major releases had moved to the PS2. The GBA has faired a little less well, but to be quite honest GBA software was never spectacular in the US.

A new hardware generation is completely different from a new model of the iPod. A DS Lite-style revision is strongly comparable to a different model of the iPod. That's the core of this argument and the basic reason why your position doesn't make sense.

Again, as I said in the last post and earlier in this one, I think it's entirely appropriate to make use of the iPod as an analogy for another disruptive product without mimicking it exactly. It's impossible to fully compare video games to other portable electronics--regardless of product similarity--a major issue is that catalog software does not sell and will not sell whereas catalog music and movies do and will continue to.

Your whole point is basically that the iPod is expanded on in feature set without forcing previous users to migrate to new models. While it is technically true that the iPod 1G is still useable with all of the iTunes music, in practice Apple's entire business model is centered around mobilizing its previous users to migrate towards new models. I think Nintendo can effectively launch a new product that continues to support legacy DS software during an interim period while effectively driving previous owners forward to buy the new product.

I think you've overestimated how problematic a console transition is. Certainly there have been troublesome console transitions, but by and large they go very smoothly and to massive economic benefit for the companies that do them. If it were true that launching a new product meant permanently giving up your previous audience in search of new consumers, it would also be true that Nintendo should not aim for a DS2. I believe, though, and here's the strength of the Apple analogy, that a new product that is released actively rather than reactively can spur users to buy again.

I do not believe there is a single iPod owner out there still using a 1g... 3g is about the earliest still there, and the numbers of 3g users are very very very very tiny. Part of this is due to the forced obsolesce of Li-ion batteries and the relatively short lifespan of the creaky old iPod hard drives, but in general the sort of people that bought into Apple's basic philosophy--doing music easily and in a different way than they originally thought possible--continued to buy into it as new models came out.

I think that most DS consumers, except those who have honestly been duped into buying a DS and now seriously regret their purchase, would be willing to migrate if Nintendo could aggressively continue to make them rethink their pre-conceived notions of gaming. I think Nintendo can do this and will try to whether they do so in 2009 or 2010.
 

Vic

Please help me with my bad english
charlequin said:
No. The GBA hardware continued to sell in the US despite essentially no new software releases. This is the distinction I'm trying to make clear here. When Nintendo upgrades to the DS, they are putting out a new hardware iteration that isn't profitable to sell (or is much less so than the GBA) and simultaneously having to rebuild their software market from scratch -- something that is in no way guaranteed to happen, as the PS3 is busily demonstrating.

Hardware revisions that utilize the same software don't create this gap and therefore don't risk shifting the market to a competitor; they keep the same momentum and share install base with everything you've ever sold before. That's how the iPod works -- when you give your old iPod to your mom to upgrade to a bigger one, then three years later buy shuffles for your kids -- all of you can still play the same AACs, and that will never change. That sort of buy-in momentum isn't possible with what you're proposing -- a DS2 would create a situation where Brain Training 4 comes out and hypothetical-mom's DS doesn't play it.

A new hardware generation is completely different from a new model of the iPod. A DS Lite-style revision is strongly comparable to a different model of the iPod. That's the core of this argument and the basic reason why your position doesn't make sense.
Spot on

and I truly wish that the next Nintendo handheld plaform won't be too powerful. Afterall, one of the key ingredient of the DS success is actually it's low end specs.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Vic said:
Spot on

and I truly wish that the next Nintendo handheld plaform won't be too powerful. Afterall, one of the key ingredient of the DS success is actually it's low end specs.

This might be a good time to interject my theory that the next set of Nintendo products will attempt to merge the hardware/markets/mindset of handheld and console. I would not be shocked to see some new Nintendo product that was fully intended to replace the Wii AND the DS at the same time.

(The main unit sits at home, the secondary unit is the controller for the main unit but is also a fully functioning DS-style handheld. Like a Wiimote that folds open and uses bluetooth/satellite/ds-sized cards for games, and the....)
 

Lobster

Banned
Sorry, im a bit late but Im just commenting on Vinks report.

I hope Umbrella Chronicles got a new shipment or something, if it did then its very good its sold out, I am very happy for the game and Capcom. Seriously I didn't think it would do so well. Im sure it will chart next week.

Ouch at Mario and Sonic..too bad Wii hasn't released in China yet. Im guessing it would have done great over there.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
As it relates to Mario and Sonic, it'll be interesting to see if during the Olympics there's a sales bump across all territories. Since it's the official Olympic game, presumably it will be advertised pretty heavily next summer. Not that I think any Olympics ads will make Sega's farcical 4mln any more realistic, but still worth keeping track of.
 
Stumpokapow said:
Again, as I said in the last post and earlier in this one, I think it's entirely appropriate to make use of the iPod as an analogy for another disruptive product without mimicking it exactly.

I don't think it's inappropriate to bring it up. What I think is that you're missing the forest for the trees because you're so fixated on a very specific statement of analogy ("iPods release new revisions quickly! Therefore, Nintendo will release a new revision quickly!") without actually acknowledging the factors that go into that analogy.

While it is technically true that the iPod 1G is still useable with all of the iTunes music, in practice Apple's entire business model is centered around mobilizing its previous users to migrate towards new models.

Yes, by making the entire process painless and easily comprehensible. You know there's a new set of models every year, and last year's go down in price; you know that your AACs will always work on your new iPod, but that they'll still keep working on your old one as well. It's an all-carrot strategy.

I think you've overestimated how problematic a console transition is.

You missed the point. It's expensive and it resets the clock. When you transition generations, your new hardware forms a new impression that it then stays with throughout its life. We've seen this in extensive action in this last console generation. When your existing impression is bad, changing systems gives you a chance to reinvent yourself (a la the Wii.) When you're on top, though, changing mostly just gives you a chance to screw up -- witness the PS3. It's not worth doing except as part of a full generation transition -- i.e. because your system is going to start looking "obsolete" because of competitors' "better" systems.

A console transition never generates a ton of new, immediate profit on its own -- the costs of hardware research and the need to sell the new hardware at a loss (to compete with the other consoles and achieve better sales) reduce your profit -- as an investment in future profits. You're suggesting that Nintendo would choose to cut off the most profitable part of their generation early in order to move back to the least profitable part of the cycle more quickly.
 

birdchili

Member
BlackNMild2k1 said:
PSP Slim....?
exactly.

less comfortable, inferior control options, needs wires, etc...

yeah - they're not trying to replace the ps3 here, but there are some real hurdles to making a compelling hybrid device that'd have a prayer of being a real contender in these two markets.

nintendo is further differentiating handhelds and consoles, if anything.
 

ccbfan

Member
creamsugar said:
1st day

DQ4 - 360,000 (70%)

PES 2008
PS2 - 155,000
PS3 - 107,000
360 - 7,000

FF XI
PS2 - 71,000
360 - 4,000

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games - 15,000

Mega Man Star Force 2 - 40,000

Dino King (DS) - 40,000

Not sure if anyone have mentioned this but it looks like it might be a huge struggle for SMG to be in the famitsu top 10 next week.

DQ4 DS
PES PS2
PES PS3
FF11 PS2
DK DS
MMSF DS

are definitely going ot beat it.

MP DS
RE UC
SSM5 PS3

Looks likely to beat it

That means 1 spot for

SMG
MArio and Sonic
PES 360


Seems likely for Mario and Sonic to beat SMG. Plus expect higher than normal DS sales so some old games could pop up in there.
 

cvxfreak

Member
MMSF is divided into two versions, so I doubt both of them would make it into such a competitive top 10. One may though.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
PantherLotus said:
This might be a good time to interject my theory that the next set of Nintendo products will attempt to merge the hardware/markets/mindset of handheld and console. I would not be shocked to see some new Nintendo product that was fully intended to replace the Wii AND the DS at the same time.

(The main unit sits at home, the secondary unit is the controller for the main unit but is also a fully functioning DS-style handheld. Like a Wiimote that folds open and uses bluetooth/satellite/ds-sized cards for games, and the....)

IMO it'll never happen, reason being said console would be too costly, and that hardly identifies with Nintendo business strategy of late (dare I say of ever).
 

Busaiku

Member
Dash Kappei said:
IMO it'll never happen, reason being said console would be too costly, and that hardly identifies with Nintendo business strategy of late (dare I say of ever).
Kinda funny since their latest systems are their most expensive ones (right?).
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
ccbfan said:
That means 1 spot for

SMG
MArio and Sonic
PES 360

It's virtually guaranteed that SMG will beat Mario and Sonic. I sincerely believe you're looking at 25-30k for Mario and Sonic, 30k for Galaxy, 15k MAXIMUM for PES 360. Also given that Media-Create splits Diamond/Pearl and the three original MMSF games, I can't imagine that both MMSF games will make it.
 

Vic

Please help me with my bad english
cvxfreak said:
MMSF is divided into two versions, so I doubt both of them would make it into such a competitive top 10. One may though.
There won't be 3 versions like the first Star Force series?
 
So I got up GCN/GBA/PS2/Xbox data for 2002, based on Famitsu weekly Top 30, mid-year Top 100, and full-year Top 100.

For the crowd discussing whether Wii has any more core gamers than GCN, here are the sets to compare.
Wii software through week 50
GCN software through week 50
Really need to make a generic "Two systems at week X" comparison page like I made for DS and Wii.

SMS vs SM64DS vs SMG through six months.
Mario Party 4 vs 8 through 7 weeks.
In both of these comparisons the GCN games went further up, but that gets into 2003 data that's not yet included.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
Vic said:
Spot on

and I truly wish that the next Nintendo handheld plaform won't be too powerful. Afterall, one of the key ingredient of the DS success is actually it's low end specs.

Well, the next logical step would be a portable gamecube in terms of graphics, which would put it slightly ahead of the PSP in terms of graphics.

Of course, this isn't happening anytime soon, especially with Nintendo's absolute dominance in the handheld market.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
creamsugar said:
1st day

DQ4 - 360,000 (70%)

PES 2008
PS2 - 155,000
PS3 - 107,000
360 - 7,000

FF XI
PS2 - 71,000
360 - 4,000

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games - 15,000

Mega Man Star Force 2 - 40,000

Dino King (DS) - 40,000
Not bad performance for PS3 versions, comparable to the PS2 install base it did really well.
 

ethelred

Member
PantherLotus said:
This might be a good time to interject my theory that the next set of Nintendo products will attempt to merge the hardware/markets/mindset of handheld and console. I would not be shocked to see some new Nintendo product that was fully intended to replace the Wii AND the DS at the same time.

Why on zod's blue earth would Nintendo ever do so financially disastrous a thing as this?
 

mabuza

Banned
shouldn't they have released mario and sonic at you know, olympic time, when olympic fever is high? its like ea releasing fifa world cup 2010 in 2009. kinda stupid really.
 

ccbfan

Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
So I got up GCN/GBA/PS2/Xbox data for 2002, based on Famitsu weekly Top 30, mid-year Top 100, and full-year Top 100.

For the crowd discussing whether Wii has any more core gamers than GCN, here are the sets to compare.
Wii software through week 50
GCN software through week 50
Really need to make a generic "Two systems at week X" comparison page like I made for DS and Wii.

SMS vs SM64DS vs SMG through six months.
Mario Party 4 vs 8 through 7 weeks.
In both of these comparisons the GCN games went further up, but that gets into 2003 data that's not yet included.


Wow that very little GCN games.

I had no idea the GCN game drought was that bad in Japan. No wonder that system failed miserably.
 

justchris

Member
I don't forsee Nintendo releasing a successor to the DS until 2010 at the earliest, and I really don't expect it that early.

I see Nintendo's focus moving ahead to be integration. As someone said previously, the DS' main competition is not the PSP, it's mobile phones. The DS has a lot of utility software. By integrating some of their lifestyle software into the DS2, they provide clear incentive to upgrade. By maintaining backwards compatibility, providing better online support, built in storage, and a system for downloading demos/games, they provide increased functionality while maintaining a relatively low price. I don't see them putting out a DS2 until they've released and tested enough different types of utility software to decide what should be part of the standard OS of the DS2.

Also, I expect that the DS2 and Wii2 will be developed concurrently. The difficulty of converging the handheld and home console systems into a single console has already been brought up. However, by developing them concurrently, they can create two systems that provide two completely different styles of gameplay, but which are inextricably linked through interface and common metaphors.

I'm not the biggest fan of the Wii channels, but you have to admire how Nintendo integrates gaming and the base OS, specifically with the Mii channel, and going forward with games like Wii Fit creating their own channel. That's still in it's infancy, but imagine having the channel metaphor on both your Wii2 and DS2. Being able to transfer Mii's from one system to the other, handling communication between the two seemlessly because they essentially use two different versions of the same OS. Rather than have the DS2 be a controller for the Wii2, make the Wii2 a wireless base station for the DS2, and give consumers a good reason to sync their DS2 with their Wii2 everyday. After all, that is Nintendo's goal, to get people to turn on their system every.single.day. Even if only for 20-30 minutes, your Nintendo console(s) are a vital part of your life.

So I really don't expect a successor to the DS to be released anymore than 6 months before or after a successor to the Wii, and I don't expect one of those until 2011 at the earliest.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Busaiku said:
Kinda funny since their latest systems are their most expensive ones (right?).

Well, if you show me when Nintendo has ever gone beyond a $250 price tag for a system bundled with a game then I can agree with your way of thinkin'.
You're in denial if you think such a thing could cost anything less than $350, and Nintendo initially planned to release even the Wii for a $199 price tag but then preferred to up the price bundling Wii Sports (btw, $200 with no Wii Sports is how the system is selling for in Japan).

justchris said:
I don't forsee Nintendo releasing a successor to the DS until 2010 at the earliest, and I really don't expect it that early.

I agree, but I think we could see a late 2009 Japan only launch of a DSLite2 with some sort of added functionality, 2010 for the rest of the world, maybe some of those functions could be fitted into a cartridge (Opera browser like) and sold to DSlite1 owners.
Then late 2010/early 2011 for Ds2.

As someone said previously, the DS' main competition is not the PSP, it's mobile phones. The DS has a lot of utility software.

Yeah, but I feel they're still not exploiting it as they should, especially outside Japan.
AsI said above, where's my PDA/E-Agenda functionality cart Nintendo? I would use that everyday and I would carry around my DS much more and that means more software sales as well.

Also, I expect that the DS2 and Wii2 will be developed concurrently.

Developed? Sure.
Released? No way, both from a logistic (factories, resources) and a marketing pow.
 
mabuza said:
shouldn't they have released mario and sonic at you know, olympic time, when olympic fever is high? its like ea releasing fifa world cup 2010 in 2009. kinda stupid really.
I'm guessing they didn't want it competing with another more straight-laced Olympics title at the time, and figure the Olympics is just the cream on top of a multiplayer mascot game for the holidays.
JoshuaJSlone said:
Really need to make a generic "Two systems at week X" comparison page like I made for DS and Wii.
So that was easy. Syntax in the URL is dead obvious, too.
PS2 and Wii through week 50
GCN and Wii through week 50
DS and Wii through week 50
PSP and Wii through week 50
PSP and Wii through week 200 (Read: PSP versus Wii totals as of now.)

GCN and PS3 through week 53
PSP and PS3 through week 53

GBA and DS through week 52
GBA and DS through week 78
 
AdmiralViscen said:
DS is not iPod, everyone already explained this to you. iPod's software works on every iPod, it doesn't require major retooling for Apple and all of its providers in order to keep supplying content, and a new iPod doesn't render the old software collection useless or old.

By your line of thought, the most obvious thing for Nintendo to do is to come out with a DS Slick and push DS2 off until 2011.
Er... much like iPod, I doubt the successor to DS will lack backwards compatibility for the original DS.

Also, I'd love to see the iPod Video software work on my pre-video iPod, or on my friend's 1st generation iPod. Even if that wasn't the case though, the original Nintendo DS and DS Lite have the same functionality, much like iPods from generation to generation (with some barriers).
 

Grecco

Member
Is the Stench of Sonic that offensive in Japan?

I mean a Party game full of waggle sports involving Mario you would think judging from Mario Party sales it would have done really well.
 
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