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[PantherLotus]

Wii Sold 700k Less in 2008 than 2007; PS3 Steadies, 360 Improves

...but positions remain the same.

Questions for consumption:
Look closely at the above charts and notice that the market share for each really hasn't changed much at all since November 2007.

* Does that mean that each system's generation-end results will be the same?
* Can Nintendo do anything to ruin their lead?
* Can Sony do anything to make a sizable dent in the next year? Is it too late?
* Should Microsoft be proud of maintaining almost 8% of the market? Should they even bother next generation (in Japan), or do you think they're laying in-roads for the future?

Full Article and charts @ ChartGet.com

 

[Link]

That's a pretty sharp yoy decline for the Wii.

 

[jeremy1456]

Did the PS2 see a similar decline at this point in it's life?

 

[HK-47]

I don't know about this PS2 Icon.

The PS2 didn't have anything like Metroid Prime or Windwaker. In that context, no fucking way was the PS2 "the only thing you need for gaming".

Hell, REmake alone destroys the idea.

Okami was a Zelda thru and thru. And better than TP or WW, despite all 3 having pacing problems

 

[Ariexv]

FF13 is a lot bigger franchise thsn MGS4, but yeah...you'd think that after a 2nd full year of falling behind the GC people wouldn't take such offense to the comparison..

Wait what? FF is alot bigger then MGS?

MGS1-5.5 million
MGS2-7 Million
MGS3-4 million
MGS4-4 million +
20.5 million

FFXII-5 million
FFX-8 Million
FFIX-5 million
FFX2-5 Million
23 Million

FF is Bigger, but only by a little bit and XIII is Multi-Platform.

 

[jeremy1456]

Wait what? FF is alot bigger then MGS?

MGS1-5.5 million
MGS2-7 Million
MGS3-4 million
MGS4-4 million +
20.5 million

FFXII-5 million
FFX-8 Million
FFIX-5 million
FFX2-5 Million
23 Million

FF is Bigger, but only by a little bit and XIII is Multi-Platform.

I believe he was talking about Japanese sales, not worldwide.

 

[GCX]

Wait what? FF is alot bigger then MGS?

MGS1-5.5 million
MGS2-7 Million
MGS3-4 million
MGS4-4 million +
20.5 million

FFXII-5 million
FFX-8 Million
FFIX-5 million
FFX2-5 Million
23 Million

FF is Bigger, but only by a little bit and XIII is Multi-Platform.

Since this is a Media Create thread, people are obviously talking about the Japanese sales (where FFXIII isn't multiplatform).

 

[sphinx]

Okami was a Zelda thru and thru. And better than TP or WW, despite all 3 having pacing problems

what an opinion you've got there.

the borefest that is Okami is now better than the Zeldas?

Not even the PS2 crowd agrees on that, as they avoided the game like the plague.

 

[jarrod]

Okami's great, but I think TP's pretty easily the best of those three. Wind Waker's easily the worst too imo.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I've been meaning to ask, Joshua, is there anyway to change your script so the legend lists the game titles and not just numerical codes? I never know which title is which.

If setting up a comparison manually, one can add in text for each. For the ones automatically generated for a group it just displays the number. If it were to display an abbreviation that would be another thing to need to come up with for every game (and we couldn't necessarily count on them being unique), or it would display full titles which could get pretty long. It would be easy to make that latter possibility an option; I just didn't think it a practical enough option to set it up that way to begin with.

Wait what? FF is alot bigger then MGS?

In Japan, very much so.

Did the PS2 see a similar decline at this point in it's life?

Since Wii was an early December release and PS2 an early March release it's not always easy to line up calendar years of one as being equivalent with calendar years of another. However, its first three years (2000, 2001, 2002) were all over 3 million. Its third year was its peak.

Actually, just doing a straight look at time from launch, while holidays are mismatched, PS2 at Wii's current age was pretty much at its peak period outside of the usual holiday spikes. It spent a lot of time in the 50-100K range in 2002.

 

[HK-47]

what an opinion you've got there.

the borefest that is Okami is now better than the Zeldas?

Not even the PS2 crowd agrees on that, as they avoided the game like the plague.

You said PS2 had nothing like Zelda. It definitely did. And TP and WW arent boring? Hello sailing and Triforce quest. Hello horrible beginning tutorial and boring starting dungeons and uninspired light/dark world gimmick . And oh man sales decide quality now, alert the presses!

 

[HK-47]

Wait what? FF is alot bigger then MGS?

MGS1-5.5 million
MGS2-7 Million
MGS3-4 million
MGS4-4 million +
20.5 million

FFXII-5 million
FFX-8 Million
FFIX-5 million
FFX2-5 Million
23 Million

FF is Bigger, but only by a little bit and XIII is Multi-Platform.

Why dont you add FFVII and VIII considering before were launched within a year of MGS. I also dont see as many popular spinoff of MGS. It isnt nearly as bankable or popular

 

[ivysaur12]

Okami was a Zelda thru and thru. And better than TP or WW, despite all 3 having pacing problems

Maybe it was better than TP, but certainly not WW.

 

[ksamedi]

I'm one of the believers that one big hit software can change a consoles momentum. Look at monster Hunter on the PSP, Brain Age or Wii sports. I think when a game shows of the strengh of a platform and entertains people in a new way that it can act as a system seller and push the consoles momentum. I don't think that a game like FF13 will do that. It'll turn some heads for sure but its also something people already know what to expect from (unless SE somehow does the unexpected and makes FF13 a totally unexpected fresh experience that redefines HD gaming).

 

[HK-47]

Maybe it was better than TP, but certainly not WW.

Both. I assume you can read. Frankly, at least TP had some great dungeons toward the end. It has that over Okami for certain.

Also off topic we be getting

 

[Joe211]

(neutral) Stumpokapow
listen to the madman
(Yesterday, 06:39 PM)
Reply | Quote

you're crazy :lol

 

[domokunrox]

I'm one of the believers that one big hit software can change a consoles momentum. Look at monster Hunter on the PSP, Brain Age or Wii sports. I think when a game shows of the strengh of a platform and entertains people in a new way that it can act as a system seller and push the consoles momentum. I don't think that a game like FF13 will do that. It'll turn some heads for sure but its also something people already know what to expect from (unless SE somehow does the unexpected and makes FF13 a totally unexpected fresh experience that redefines HD gaming).

I predict it will have the same impact of GTA4 in the US, but impact Japan in a major way.

 

[RpgN]

The problem is that the PSP game was the exception not the rule. And comparing Phantasy Star Zero's sales to Dragon Quest is ridiculous. If Dragon Quest IX some how only sold 150k without shortages it would be the biggest bomb to ever hit gaming period as it didn't even come close to reaching the others at all. This game however completely surpassed every main series game (wasn't PSP just a port?) and has only been outsold by ONE game in the entire series. No matter how you look at it this game did not underperform. It is the second best selling interation period. Had to cut

I think I already mentioned comparing it to DQ is ridiculous, you don't have to tell me that the second time. Just like someone else pointed out, Sega had bigger expectations and there are already pricedrops, wether you like it or not. It did underperform even if it outsold the previous entries except for the psp version.

 

[cvxfreak]

1. [DS] Dragon Quest V Tenkuu no Hanayome - 1,173,489
2. [PSP] Dissidia Final Fantasy - 503,723
3. [DS] Chrono Trigger - 418,892
4. [DS] Final Fantasy IV - 175,388 (622,475)
5. [DS] Dragon Quest IV Chapters of the Chosen - 161,692 (1,214,519)
6. [PSP] Star Ocean 2 Second Evolution - 143,424
7. [DS] Valkyrie Profile DS - 134,414
8. [360] Last Remnant - 131,817
9. [360] Infinite Undiscovery - 112,164
10. [PSP] Star Ocean 1 First Departure - 89,716 (204,996)

 

[HK-47]

I'm gonna be a sad panda if CT doesnt make 500k at least.

 

[RpgN]

Wow about FFIV DS, it still made it to the 600k mark! Now where are FFV and VI remakes? Now with Avalon Code bombed and finished, Matrix Software might have some new assignment

And nice to see VP breaking 130k, it didn't end up like SH.

 

[duckroll]

Wow about FFIV DS, it still made it to the 600k mark! Now where are FFV and VI remakes?

They'll be announced when FFIV DS hits the million mark like FFIII DS did.

 

[RpgN]

They'll be announced when FFIV DS hits the million mark like FFIII DS did.

Did it hit a million in Japan only?! Wow.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Some rather noticeable discrepancies between trackers this week (12/29 - 01/04)...

Hardware | MedCreate |  Famitsu  |  Dengeki
NDS      |   230,678 |   259,000 |  255,406
PSP      |   157,088 |   169,000 |  192,140
WII      |   119,965 |   141,000 |  128,951
PS3      |    60,654 |    68,000 |   71,843
360      |    19,964 |    19,000 |   20,505
PS2      |    12,548 |    19,000 |   16,265

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Got the N64 games from 1999, 2000, and 2001 Top 300s added to Garaph. Detected no N64 presence in further Top 300/Top 500 lists.

They'll be announced when FFIV DS hits the million mark like FFIII DS did.

Sometimes being a lesser success in a successful franchise is a perspective-skewer. :lol It's definitely a step down from FF III, but on the other hand it's a step up from everything S-E released on DS that isn't FF or DQ.

Did it hit a million in Japan only?! Wow.

Just barely, but yeah. As of the end of 2007 Famitsu has it at 1,008,230.

 

[cvxfreak]

Ironically, FFIV was the most success of the SNES remakes that appeared on the PSone. FF Collection sold about 412K, but the standalone version sold another 261K on top of that.

 

[gconsole]

Capcom's two biggest games this gen in Japan are Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, and Mega Man Star Force. Devil May Cry 4 is third. So, yes, Capcom's audience is on the DS, not the PS3/360/Wii.

2 Capcom biggest game this gen in Japan are Monster Hunter and Resident Evil. I would say Capcom's audience is everywhere.

 

[cvxfreak]

2 Capcom biggest game this gen in Japan are Monster Hunter and Resident Evil. I would say Capcom's audience is everywhere.

Unless I missed Stump's context, what a big oversight.

 

[duckroll]

Sometimes being a lesser success in a successful franchise is a perspective-skewer. :lol It's definitely a step down from FF III, but on the other hand it's a step up from everything S-E released on DS that isn't FF or DQ.

Sure, but it's also one of the best RPGs on the DS imo. The polish and effort put into it were pretty big for a remake. A ton of attention was paid to rebalancing the game, and introducing new gameplay elements. It wasn't just a fresh coat of paint, like FFIII was. It's pretty sad that a game like FFXII Revenant Wings can push 500k, while FFIV fails to double that. Injustice!

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

2 Capcom biggest game this gen in Japan are Monster Hunter and Resident Evil. I would say Capcom's audience is everywhere.

Monster Hunter, sure, but looking at Capcom SKUs from systems DS and after, we don't reach a Resident Evil until 10. 15 of the top 20 are Monster Hunter, Mega Man, or Ace Attorney.

 

[duckroll]

Monster Hunter, sure, but looking at Capcom SKUs from systems DS and after, we don't reach a Resident Evil until 10. 15 of the top 20 are Monster Hunter, Mega Man, or Ace Attorney.

Yeah there hasn't been a major RE game released this gen yet. Although I suppose it'll be a better comparison after March.

 

[cvxfreak]

Sure, but it's also one of the best RPGs on the DS imo. The polish and effort put into it were pretty big for a remake. A ton of attention was paid to rebalancing the game, and introducing new gameplay elements. It wasn't just a fresh coat of paint, like FFIII was. It's pretty sad that a game like FFXII Revenant Wings can push 500k, while FFIV fails to double that. Injustice!

To be fair, FFIV came at the tail end of a huge flurry of FF releases and re-releases. DS owners already got RW, FFCCRoF and FFTA2 months earlier. CC was also pretty big news for FF owners. The GBA, PS2 and PSP got a few releases too. I think by the time FFIV rolled around, FF fans were preoccupied with so many prior offerings that they skipped out on the game that, unlike FFIII, had been re-released relatively recently and several times before.

I'd bet good money that if Dissidia and FFIV swapped release dates, FFIV would have the sales Dissidia is getting now, and vice versa. It sounds like a faulty comparison because CC was also a 2007 game, but the DS got 4 separate and distinguished FF games that year as well.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Unless I missed Stump's context, what a big oversight.

Yeah, Monster Hunter was an incredibly stupid omission on my part and I'll swallow any crow related to that--either way, Monster Hunter serves further to reinforce that "Capcom's audience is on PS3/360/Wii" is not an accurate assessment. Resident Evil is absolutely not Capcom's biggest game this gen in Japan.

 

[Spiegel]

Yeah, Monster Hunter was an incredibly stupid omission on my part and I'll swallow any crow related to that--either way, Monster Hunter serves further to reinforce that "Capcom's audience is on PS3/360/Wii" is not an accurate assessment. Resident Evil is absolutely not Capcom's biggest game this gen in Japan.

I was referring to games made by Capcom's top/biggest teams. None of them are working on the PSP/DS so their audience is on the 360/PS3/Wii

 

[charlequin]

I was referring to games made by Capcom's top/biggest teams.

Which is a totally pointless and irrelevant fact for you to be talking about, since the conversation is about where people are buying Capcom's games.

 

[Spiegel]

Which is a totally pointless and irrelevant fact for you to be talking about, since the conversation is about where people are buying Capcom's games.

My point WAS about why I don't think that the DS is the new PS2 and why the ps2 audience is not on the ds.

Most of the publishers don't treat the DS like it's the new PS2.

The Ds has: new games on gba franchises (Megaman, PW, Suikoden, Power Pro Pocket, Castlevania), ports (DQ, Front Mission, Chrono Trigger) like the gba, low budget spinoffs (FFXII:RW, BD+, Heroes of Mana) like the gba, and some more (DQIX). It's closest to being the new GBA than the new PS2.

That's if we talk about the games, and that quote was talking about the games/audience.

I'm not denying that the ds is the new PS2, or the new PSX, or the new NES because it's the best selling console this generation but these consoles had the majority of the best third party teams doing games for them and this isn't the ds' case.

 

[TJ Spyke]

Is there any difference between the normal version of a game and the "BEST" version? If not, why are they tracked differently? We don't consider Player's Choice/Greatest Hits/Platinum Hits versions of games different from the normal version.

 

[test_account]

Is there any difference between the normal version of a game and the "BEST" version? If not, why are they tracked differently? We don't consider Player's Choice/Greatest Hits/Platinum Hits versions of games different from the normal version.

I think that both the normal version and the "BEST" version is the same game(s). If i am not mistaken, i think the "BEST" version have another product code on them, so they are tracked as a own product, even if the both version of the game(s) are the same

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Kick it up, top teams! Your entier PSWii60 output has sold half as well as Monster Hunter Portable 2 G.

Is there any difference between the normal version of a game and the "BEST" version? If not, why are they tracked differently? We don't consider Player's Choice/Greatest Hits/Platinum Hits versions of games different from the normal version.

I think that both the normal version and the "BEST" version is the same game(s). If i am not mistaken, i think the "BEST" version have another product code on them, so they are tracked as a own product, even if the both version of the game(s) are the same

Pretty much. It's not what we think, but the tracker's discretion. Like how Famitsu combines Pokémon Diamond/Pearl and Media Create doesn't.

 

[ksamedi]

My point WAS about why I don't think that the DS is the new PS2 and why the ps2 audience is not on the ds.
Most of the publishers don't treat the DS like it's the new PS2.

The Ds has: new games on gba franchises (Megaman, PW, Suikoden, Power Pro Pocket, Castlevania), ports (DQ, Front Mission, Chrono Trigger) like the gba, low budget spinoffs (FFXII:RW, BD+, Heroes of Mana) like the gba, and some more (DQIX). It's closest to being the new GBA than the new PS2.

That's if we talk about the games, and that quote was talking about the games/audience.

I'm not denying that the ds is the new PS2, or the new PSX, or the new NES because it's the best selling console this generation but these consoles had the majority of the best third party teams doing games for them and this isn't the ds' case.

Pretty much all of Japan has acces to it with the userbase going for 30 million. I can't see how the PS2 audiance is not on the DS.

 

[Mr.Wuggles]

It's closest to being the new GBA than the new PS2.

i agree with you in that it's not the new PS2 in terms of game support, but i don't agree with this. the ds is getting better support than the gba did. honestly it's probably getting better support than any nintendo system ever - tons of companies that have never even made games on nintendo systems before have given the DS support. NIS, tri-Ace (VPDS was the first game on a nintendo system since SO:BS), media.vision, Level5, Team Destiny (arguable), Vanillaware, even Kitase made a game with (I think) an internal SE team (Sigma Harmonics). honestly the only dev the DS is missing that the PSX/2/P had is an internally developed Nomura game.

 

[charlequin]

The Ds has: new games on gba franchises (Megaman, PW, Suikoden, Power Pro Pocket, Castlevania), ports (DQ, Front Mission, Chrono Trigger) like the gba, low budget spinoffs (FFXII:RW, BD+, Heroes of Mana) like the gba, and some more (DQIX). It's closest to being the new GBA than the new PS2.

Suikoden is not a GBA franchise.

Boiling down what the DS is getting to DQIX as if it's a single, tossed-off entry is ridiculous.

Square-Enix's ports for DS are almost identical to the kind they used to release on PS1 and PS2: some near-identical ports (like Final Fantasy Chronicles), some graphically-tuned ports with near-identical gameplay (like Final Fantasy Origins), and some full-on remakes with new graphics and gameplay (like Dragon Quest V Remake). And meanwhile, they've created three brand new IPs for the system (more than all three home consoles put together).

Many other companies have thrown their weight solidly behind the DS. Level 5 has like three new IPs on there. Atlus launched two very successfully. Namco got burned for their attempts to treat the system like a spinoff platform and as a result have come around with a highly launded, real "mothership" Tales game. Numerous smaller developers of the type who once helped fill out the PS2's library are now providing the DS with all kinds of niche but enjoyable titles.

Yes, it's true that Konami and Capcom have both been relatively cautious in terms of what games they put on DS (although both have shifted more effort there over time.) But that's not representative of the industry, nor is it meaningfully different from, say, Capcom's dedication to the GameCube despite its losing state.

why the ps2 audience is not on the ds.

The "x-console audience" thing is always a huge abstraction. No two consecutive consoles have been supported entirely by the same franchises or even the same genres: platformers owned the NES but gave way to fighters as the most important genre; nowadays fighters and racers have cooled in favor of shooters as the most "important" genre of console games.

Do literally the precise people who owned PS2s now own DSes? No; many stopped gaming for some reason, and new people started, leaving an overlapping but distinct market. But again, this is no different from any other console transition.

 

[Datschge]

What is this talk about "top" teams anyway? "Top" teams are no static entity but highly depend on the success of their output. If a publisher (or the developer's preference for some specific technology or style) forces one to bet on the wrong horse chances are quite high that the "top" team either falls apart or manages to serve only a niche audience as a result of that.

And this is happening a lot atm.

 

[Spiegel]

Suikoden is not a GBA franchise.

A suikoden spinoff appeared on the gba and the ds Suikoden is based on the world of that game (iirc) so yeah it's a new game on the suikoden portable franchise.

Is the PSP also the new PS2?

- 3 new Level 5 IP (Ushiro, Carboard Senki, Jeanne d'Arc)
- S-E internal teams games (Crisis Core, KH:BBS, Dissidia, Agito XIII)
- The best selling Capcom franchise and a game on the sales level of FF/DQ in Japan! (Monster Hunter)
- Lots of gundam games
- Games from Kojima Productions (MGA1/2/ Portable Ops)
- S-E ports/remakes almost identical to the kind they used to release on PS1 and PS2 (FF I/II, Star Ocean, FFTactics)
- Support from smaller developers like Spike, NIS, Alchemist, Marvelous, From Software, Irem,...

Of course not

Kick it up, top teams! Your entier PSWii60 output has sold half as well as Monster Hunter Portable 2 G.

So why is psp having a shitty support from Capcom?!

Because Japan is a small part of the Capcom's business.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

so we can expect FFV DS?
What about FFVI, DS also? or PSP?

 

[HK-47]

They'll be announced when FFIV DS hits the million mark like FFIII DS did.

Once again this dumb argument. IV was never gonna hit a million in Japan. III was special

 

[charlequin]

A suikoden spinoff appeared on the gba and the ds Suikoden is based on the world of that game (iirc) so yeah it's a new game on the suikoden portable franchise.

No, it really isn't; are you not familiar with the titles in question?

Suikoden Card Stories is a dashed-off card-battle game meant to tie in to a physical card game release and which features minimal plot and low production values; Tierkreis is a full-fledged RPG project. They're both spinoffs from Suikoden but they're entirely unrelated and there's no continuity involved in the platform choices for both; almost nobody really bought Card Stories and nobody who did would be expecting an experience related in any meaningful way from Tierkreis. This isn't at all like something like DQM:J, which really is a specific followup to DQM:CH and can be properly understood as franchise platform continuity.

Is the PSP also the new PS2?

The PSP is the most successful also-ran system in ages, having already sold twice as many units as N64, closing in on twice as many as Sega Saturn... If it weren't for the extremely poor software sales upfront, the surprise with the PSP would be why it wasn't getting more announcements than it is.

Once again this dumb argument. IV was never gonna hit a million in Japan. III was special

Obviously it didn't, but the problem is that that makes it a failure and not a title performing up to snuff as people like you keep insisting (and as I wish it was, sadface)

so we can expect FFV DS?
What about FFVI, DS also? or PSP?

I still kind of think (hope?) FFV DS will happen, but it'll require SE to decide it's worth the effort and for Matrix to free up their schedule to work on it, which might not happen given all the other work they've currently got.

FFVI PSP doesn't even make sense. If FFV does happen, they'll just save FFVI and remake it on one of the next generation of handhelds.

 

[Grimmy]

Talking about the PSP, I think that, at least in Japan, there will be a resurgence of industry support for the machine in 2009 . The reason why is not because of the obvious, like the sales of Monster Hunter 2G, Dissidia, the Gundam games and Phantasy Star Portable, but because, for the first time, companies finally understand what the PSP users are looking for. That may sound strange, but for the longest time companies like Capcom had supported the PSP, and pretty much title after title flops - Mega Mans, Ghouls n' Ghosts, and lots of ports.

It is because they had no idea what to make of the PSP market. Now, for once, the PSP has finally established itself a firm niche - head-to-head and co-operative games.

It's the reason why MH2G, PSP, the Gundam action gams and Dissidia are successful - people are playing against other PSP users via wifi. And, though it hasn't been exactly proven yet, the relative sales disparity between PSP and PS0 suggests that the game culture between the two machines are different. PSP users are much more prone socially to game together, and are hungry for more games like it.

As such, titles such as Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep will probably not be a big hit on the PSP - maybe half a million in Japan - due to the fact that it's more of a single-player experience. However, titles like FFXIII Agito could be big hits. And more and more companies are recognising this, and gearing up titles especially with this functionality and gameplay in mind. I remember reading that interest in the PSP among Japanese companies have gone up recently - not surprisingly either.

So with that in mind, because Square Enix has been pretty supportive of the PSP (with huge dividends, mind you), I suggest that they give one of their beloved series a deserved resurgence on the PSP.

The Mana series. With co-op gameplay.

If done well, I think it coul be a pretty big seller.

 

[ZealousD]

Maybe it was better than TP, but certainly not WW.

It was on par with TP and certainly better than WW.

Oh! Look at me! I'm such a rebel, expressing an opinion and all.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It is because they had no idea what to make of the PSP market. Now, for once, the PSP has finally established itself a firm niche - head-to-head and co-operative games.

It's the reason why MH2G, PSP, the Gundam action gams and Dissidia are successful - people are playing against other PSP users via wifi. And, though it hasn't been exactly proven yet, the relative sales disparity between PSP and PS0 suggests that the game culture between the two machines are different. PSP users are much more prone socially to game together, and are hungry for more games like it.

(and other such stuff, snipped for length)

Good point, and probably true that more along those lines will come. The danger is that there then might be too many that will compete with each other, and not reach the same heights. Like companies trying to jump on the DS brain training bandwagon a year late, or trying to make their Wii minigame collection stand out.