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[LanceStern]

The game appeared to be heavily promoted by square-enix and they apparently even expected quite a bit considering shipment numbers. Most of GAF seemed to predict less though, but we're not really going by GAF's expectations here. S-E expected big things for the games, but with the low sell through ratio and the early discounts -- it's hard to consider it a success. It's eerily reminiscent of what happened to Tales of the Tempest, actually.

IAWW CAN"T BE Compared to Tales of the Tempest because it's a brand new IP. Tales of is a recognized, high selling franchise in Japan.

It's not very accurate to compare SE's previous new IP successes because it's on the Playstation. It's a different market, a different userbase, a different time period, PSX is A HOME CONSOLE, and the new IPs were still directed with the same type of gamer in mind: RPG gamers with the same artstyle.

IAWW is COMPLETELY different in almost all areas concerning it's release, and the only impartial standard to compare it to is other 3rd party new IPs for HANDHELDs, preferably the DS because it has a completely different userbase as well.

If you do that, which is the logical thing in my opinion, you've got a success. Almost half it's initial shipment sold.. 80k first week for a new, handheld 3rd party IP in Japan at the same week of big console releases. It's almost insane to not call it a success.

 

[levious]

plus, video games were so NEW back when teh playstation came out!!!

 

[ethelred]

So in your opinion, ethelred's list of eight or nine other Square IPs showing that all of them except Threads of Fate and Live-a-Live debuted substantially better than IAWW is bunkum because Brain Age has long legs?

Isn't it probably better to compare IAWW to previous Square IPs rather than Nintendo games?

Yeah, it is. And I could've tossed even more games in there, too. Even Drakengard and Radiata Stories, two other new Square Enix IPs, had substantially higher debuts -- each of them breaking roughly double what Wonderful World did in its first week.

No. I'm saying that success is not guaranteed off the bat. If IAWW is a good and unique enough game, word of mouth could indeed prolong the game's sales over a long period of time. It's also not something that seems like it was designed for the general Square Enix fanbase.

At this point, the only thing that'll prolong the game's sales isn't word of mouth -- it's the price slashing. And it's highly unlikely we'll see subsequent retail orders of the game because of the fact that, A) its sales were drastically below expected demand; B) it's being put on clearance in order to get rid of the stock.

By no means is this a success. It's the opposite.

IAWW CAN"T BE Compared to Tales of the Tempest because it's a brand new IP. Tales of is a recognized, high selling franchise in Japan.

Right, it can't be compared to Tales of the Tempest. It CAN be compared to Radiata Stories, Valkyrie Profile, Xenogears, Chrono Trigger, Drakengard, and other high profile, highly marketed new IPs from Square Enix.

And it can be compared against what retailers expected it to sell, what retailers paid for under the expectation and belief that the demand justified. By that measure, it was a huge flop. 40% is a failure. Shoving the game in clearance is a failure.

It's not very accurate to compare SE's previous new IP successes because it's on the Playstation. It's a different market, a different userbase, a different time period

Utter nonsense. Your argument boils down to "Because Square Enix games sell better on the PlayStation, ass-crappy sales on the DS are okay." But that's not a mitigating factor for the terrible sales they just got here -- it's an argument to keep putting games on the PlayStation brand.

Again: do you run the words you type through some sort of critical thinking process?

 

[Stumpokapow]

IAWW CAN"T BE Compared to Tales of the Tempest because it's a brand new IP. Tales of is a recognized, high selling franchise in Japan.

and TotT was an outsourced piece of shit

 

[Oblivion]

..what, oblivion?

Oblivion??

Yaes?

 

[Kosma]

 

[Deku]

The argument regarding the sales of Subarashikinosekai is bordering on pointless.

By itself 77k sales is not bad, for a new IP it may be decent. However, if reports of price slashing and the title selling on 40% of its shipment is true, then it's a failure. It's that simple.

At the same time it's not going to materially affect anything coming from SE in the future, they do release unpopular games from time to time, on every platform they've supported.

Go take some prozac and calm down.

 

[Terrell]

I think people are upset with Subaseka's sales because they saw a lot of potential for a continuing franchise. I think the hardcore market is lusting for an RPG like this... that takes its characters and puts them in an over-the-top fantasy situation in a real setting in modern times. Some people are tired of fantasy RPGs, perhaps, and saw this as a strong new direction to take the genre.... and it tanked.
Personally, I think that as a new IP from Square Enix on a handheld was a mistake in the first place. A game like this should have been on a console, likely would have met with much more success. *prays for a Subaseka redux on Wii*

 

[besada]

I'm deeply impressed by both Hot Shots and Oblivion. Those kind of numbers with the measly userbase is just amazing.

 

[WildArms]

I'm deeply impressed by both Hot Shots and Oblivion. Those kind of numbers with the measly userbase is just amazing.

Well you know, even PS3 and 360 owners have to purchase something.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

It's such a shame. You could try being right for a change?

:lol

You might find it refreshing, like a dip in a cool river in the midst of the sweltering summer heat.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[LanceStern]

It's pointless. There is nothing you can say that will convince me that 80k in ONE WEEK for this new IP at the time and market of release isn't a success. So take your numbers and lists and argue elsewhere. To me, and a lot of others, the game did great it's first week, not bomb as you so put it, and you're not goign to convince me (and hopefully not other optimists)

It's nonsense to argue with you every week ethel. You're completely stuck in this "i'm right, and never wrong and I'll make fun of you if you argue against me" attitude and will never even (the word I'm not looking for is compromise) but fancy the idea of the other side having something correct in their argument. It just leads to topples of pages of back and forth quoting

I've never used my ignore list before despite the arguments and insults by some (I'm sure I'm on a nice amount of people's ignore list), but if anyone deserves it...

It's A Wonderful World did great, I won't talk about it anymore.

 

[John Harker]

Well, I don't think it matters what either of you think.
It only matters what Square Enix thinks.


The price drop doesn't mean much since that's retailers.
The only real telltale, unless they issue a PR statement down the road, was that it only sold 40% of its shipment.

Assuming SE wanted to sell its shipment out, that's 60% that didn't sell through.
That is not a terrible number, its middling that's all. Not a failure, not a runaway success... just a bit under SE expectations.



Now, release Radiata Stories 2 and Chrono Trigger 3.

 

[Stumpokapow]

It's pointless. There is nothing you can say that will convince me that 80k in ONE WEEK for this new IP at the time and market of release isn't a success. So take your numbers and lists and argue elsewhere. To me, and a lot of others, the game did great it's first week, not bomb as you so put it, and you're not goign to convince me (and hopefully not other optimists)

Lance, without entering into the debate about whether you or ethel is correct on this issue, what you just posted was "Media Create threads should not be used for analysis, they should be used for congratulatory posts to games we like".

Lists and numbers and arguments are exactly what analysis is and I'm not sure why you'd even post in this thread if that's not what you're looking for. "GG HALO" and "OMG NINTENDOMINATION" is better left to GameFAQs. The point of these threads on GAF is higher level analysis.

Someone is correct on this issue. Either the game is a bomba or it is not a bomba. While ethelred may be acerbic in tone, his arguments deserve a logical rebuttal if you disagree and if you are unable to produce one, it may be worthwhile to reconsider your stance.

 

[Version 3.0]

I posted this in last week's neverending thread, but it got lost in the bickering. So,...


On the topic of userbase vs. game sales:

I see a lot of "MnG5 sold well considering the userbase", because it sold to ~17% of PS3 owners. That's true, 17% is a very healthy number for the game.

But not for the system. On a healthy system, you're very, very unlikely to see that kind of first-week percentage, because a healthy system has a more diverse userbase. 5 times the userbase does not equal 5 times the sales for each game. It might equal 5x for a cross-platform game, or it might not, but it doesn't mean 5x sales for the big games, because on the healthier system, the entire userbase isn't waiting for that big game.

For example, the best-selling Xbox game, Halo 2, sold, what, 8 million? SSBM sold 6m or so? Well, the biggest PS2 game didn't do 5x that, it did about 2-3x. But if you count up the million-sellers, the PS2 surely had 5x as many, probably more.

 

[LanceStern]

Lance, without entering into the debate about whether you or ethel is correct on this issue, what you just posted was "Media Create threads should not be used for analysis, they should be used for congratulatory posts to games we like".

Lists and numbers and arguments are exactly what analysis is and I'm not sure why you'd even post in this thread if that's not what you're looking for. "GG HALO" and "OMG NINTENDOMINATION" is better left to GameFAQs. The point of these threads on GAF is higher level analysis.

Someone is correct on this issue. Either the game is a bomba or it is not a bomba. While ethelred may be acerbic in tone, his arguments deserve a logical rebuttal if you disagree and if you are unable to produce one, it may be worthwhile to reconsider your stance.

Point taken on the first two paragraphs. In response, when these topics were indeed just congratulating games and putting out charts and analysis, the topic suffered in responses, excitement, and views. They were boring, and everyone voiced that. Just throwing that.

For the last paragraph about using logical rebuttals: I attempt (and succeed for the most part) in doing that. But these logical rebuttals only result in quote after qutoe of lgoical rebuttals until:

a) Someone gets banned
b) Someone starts throwing insults
c) Other users join in with a mixture of logic and insults

And the whole topic goes to chaos, and the initial debaters are blamed for it. All along, NO-ONE will ever convince the other who is right or wrong.

Lists and numbers and arguments are exactly what analysis is ....his arguments deserve a logical rebuttal if you disagree and if you are unable to produce one, it may be worthwhile to reconsider your stance

Analysis is not arguments and debates. It's looking at data, noticing trends and history and determining concepts and understanding what you're looking at. Analyses are opinion and data stored into one.

All that leads to is more arguing. We've said everything, literally everything that needs to be said to determine whether the game is a success or bomb. Literally everything. Anything else said will just be a restatement

My last comment on stopping my argument with ethel is just I'm tired of these pages of arguments;He's not going to convince me no matter hwo much he insults my intelligence or gives me "logical data and records". I'm not going to convince him with other logical precedence or enthusiastic messages. It's pointless, and I'm not doing that this thread.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

It's nonsense to argue with you every week ethel. You're completely stuck in this "i'm right, and never wrong and I'll make fun of you if you argue against me" attitude and will never even (the word I'm not looking for is compromise) but fancy the idea of the other side having something correct in their argument. It just leads to topples of pages of back and forth quoting

Well, on the flipside, you never even (the word I'm not looking for is think) consider the fact that you might be 100% wrong.

Did you really put ethelred on ignore?

EDIT: HOLY F***ING CRAP :lol

He's not going to convince me no matter hwo much he insults my intelligence or gives me logical data and records.

 

[LanceStern]

Well, on the flipside, you never even (the word I'm not looking for is think) consider the fact that you might be 100% wrong.

Did you really put ethelred on ignore?

EDIT: HOLY F***ING CRAP :lol

Are you kidding me? I have admitted I'm wrong, or at least acknowledging error when the time is necessary on multiple occassions:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7107552&postcount=385
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7140023&postcount=914

Just two. But there are other times as well. I'm too lazy to look for them. I like some people's arguments and can even change tune if convinced thoroughly enough.

it has to be a sound argument though, and most importantly, devoid of insults and ridicule.

EDIT: No I didn't put him on ignore.
EDIT2: That remark should have been put into quotation marks to emphasize sarcasm

 

[Sharp]

Is It's a Wonderful World actually good? JGAF seems to have had mixed impressions, unless those were mitigated after more play.

 

[Insane Metal]

Dunno if someone already posted... http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=4617

PS3 80GB sales increase 5,685% at Amazon

Sales for Sony Corp.'s new 80GB Playstation 3 model increased 5,685 percent on Thurs. morning as Amazon.com began pre-sales for the product.

The new 80GB model will include a copy of the online racing title MotorStorm and retail for $599.99.

The item is listed to be released on Aug. 12 at the retailer.

Sony currently retails a 60GB PS3 SKU for $499. The model will be discontinued following depletion of stock at retail.

The 60GB PS3 on Thurs. ranked as the No. 1 best-selling product at Amazon's Computer & Video Games division. Sony price cut the model last month by $100 to spur sales at U.S. retail.

New titles expected to drive demand for the product include Lair, Heavenly Sword, and a new social networking platform called Home.

Sony in July posted mounting losses in its game division due to lower-than-expected performance of the PS3.

The latest Playstation has sold 1.4 million units in the U.S. to date. Sony maintained a shipment forecast of 11 million PS3 units this business year.

Interesting.

 

[Version 3.0]

Kind of funny math, there...if they haven't sold it before, the increase is infinite percent.

I'm sure they meant sales of the PS3 total, or maybe just the 60gig model. Sounds really great, but some unit numbers would be nice, instead of just percentages.

 

[slaughterking]

I think I'm getting the math wrong. For me, as an european, this reads like ~6% increase. That has to be wrong, but the other possibility would be an increase of over five thousand percent, which can't be right either, can it?

And then I'm seeing this picture, and I'm getting totally confused if the PS3 sales high is even that impressive (compared to Godfather Wiis 2,650%).

http://news.punchjump.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/ps380gb.jpg

//EDIT: Oh, lol. The 80GB SKU is ranked on position 212 in the videogame charts. It really can't be that impressive. :lol

 

[laserbeam]

Dunno if someone already posted... http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=4617



Interesting.

how can sales increase on a product that until today wasnt available for preorder?

 

[Rocksteady33]

Amazon lists mean shit anyway.

 

[Brak]

That's a total bullshit number. The 5685% isn't referring to actual sales numbers but the product's ranking within Amazon.

The 80 gb sku was previously rank 12,265 and it rose 5685% to 212.

This basically tells us absolutely nothing and certainly doesn't indicate demand for the 80 gb PS3.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Dunno if someone already posted... http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=4617



Interesting.

That's just.... sad.

 

[frankthurk]

That's a total bullshit number. The 5685% isn't referring to actual sales numbers but the product's ranking within Amazon.

The 80 gb sku was previously rank 12,265 and it rose 5685% to 212.

This basically tells us absolutely nothing and certainly doesn't indicate demand for the 80 gb PS3.

Yeah, what Brak said... it's currently tracking under the XBOX core... no not the 360 the XBOX.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Well, crap on a stick.

 

[PantherLotus]

Well, crap on a stick.

never updated?

 

[cvxfreak]

Well, crap on a stick.

This is Media Create's way of getting back at Lance!

 

[Cheesemeister]

never updated?

The changed format means I get to re-work the parser.

 

[Fuzzy]

The changed format means I get to re-work the parser.

At least it was changed before the new numbers were posted to give you time.

 

[Cheesemeister]

At least it was changed before the new numbers were posted to give you time.

Are you kidding me? I can't finish it in a moment's notice.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Are you kidding me? I can't finish it in a moment's notice.

WELL HOP TO IT, MAN.

 

[Fuzzy]

Are you kidding me? I can't finish it in a moment's notice.

You have one job on this board, get to work!

 

[SovanJedi]

<3 to Cheesemeister anyway for taking the time and effort to do all this.

Maybe this week we can just get a rough translation of the top 50 and hardware sales, to give you time to sort your doohicky out for next week?

 

[cvxfreak]

:lol :lol

<3 Cheesemeister

 

[Fuzzy]

:lol :lol

<3 Cheesemeister

What are you laughing at? Your only purpose here is so people can quote your tag.

 

[Paws of Fury]

The changed format means I get to re-work the parser.

I don't even know what that means, but as long as cheesemeister does, I'm not worried!

Thx for your hard work!

 

[PantherLotus]

I do like how at least the hardware is in English now. Hurry up cheesy.

 

[Haunted]

Well, crap on a stick.

Never use that ugly smiley again, you hear me? This one's where it's at:

 

[Frillen]

I don't even know what that means, but as long as cheesemeister does, I'm not worried!

Thx for your hard work!

m-create has upgraded their site.

 

[apujanata]

The changed format means I get to re-work the parser.

You should keep old version of your parser in archive. Who knows, maybe m-create might change back to the old format in the future.

 

[Paws of Fury]

m-create has upgraded their site.

I was literally talking about the word "parser". I'm not a native English speaker.

 

[Frillen]

DSL 150,494
Wii 77,169
PSP 35,068
PS3 28,829
PS2 11,757
Xbox360 3,872
GBM 263
GBASP 228
GC 102
DS 90
GBA 41


Holy cowboy, a GC game in the top 50!

 

[Mar]

Dunno if someone already posted...

PS3 80GB sales increase 5,685% at Amazon

Interesting.

That's impossible, no one can give more than 100 percent. By definition that's the most any one can give.

 

[donny2112]

DSL 150,494
Wii 77,169
PSP 35,068
PS3 28,829
PS2 11,757
Xbox360 3,872
GBM 263
GBASP 228
GC 102
DS 90
GBA 41

Edit:
:lol
Good job, Frillen!

 

[TheKingsCrown]

DSL 150,494
Wii 77,169
PSP 35,068
PS3 28,829
PS2 11,757
Xbox360 3,872
GBM 263
GBASP 228
GC 102
DS 90
GBA 41

Wii is better than expected. Interesting, still selling as many as all Sony consoles combined.

 

[papercut]

I was literally talking about the word "parser". I'm not a native English speaker.

Don't worry, I'm a native English speaker and I have no clue what a parser is (regarding computers, anyway).

 

[Vic]

DSL 150,494
Wii 77,169
PSP 35,068
PS3 28,829
PS2 11,757
Xbox360 3,872
GBM 263
GBASP 228
GC 102
DS 90
GBA 41

Something in this chart is quite irregular but I can't put my finger on it.