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[ethelred]

This is why third party are afraid of Nintendo consoles.

No trouble breaking 100k, eh?

Well, in fairness, if this is true... that means it'll have surpassed Trauma Center's lifetime sales in its first week. Not too bad. Rune Factory had first day sales of 30k, and it's surpassed 100k total, so it's not all doom and gloom here. Chocobo started similarly, and it's at 83k now.

Etrian Odyssey could end up doing similarly, and considering that it's a new IP and considering how Atlus's RPGs sell in general, that'd not be that disappointing an outcome.

Still, I hoped for better at the outset, of course.

Actually, word has it that Sekaiju sold off 90% of the entire initial shipment. As I said the other day, sounds like another Atlus undershippaton! :lol

Well, if that's the case, then this is definitely fine... excellent to see the demand mesh up so strongly with what was in stores.

 

[duckroll]

Actually, word has it that Sekaiju sold off 90% of the entire initial shipment. As I said the other day, sounds like another Atlus undershippaton! :lol

 

[Deku]

This is why third party are afraid of Nintendo consoles.

In that case they must be downright terrified of the PS3.
I kid i kid. Until a major 3rd party effort bombs it's hard to say. 23k 1st day isn't bad, even considering the frontloaded nature of most Japanese released.

 

[Pureauthor]

Actually, word has it that Sekaiju sold off 90% of the entire initial shipment. As I said the other day, sounds like another Atlus undershippaton! :lol

The curse of the DS.

'Whatever it is, we never ship enough.' :lol

 

[ethelred]

Also, as to the "this is why third parties fear Nintendo consoles" stuff, come on.

Atlus is a small, niche publisher, and this is a non-franchise game. Let's look at the other games Ducky posted, shall we?

.hack//GU Vol3 - 70k
Shining Force EXA - 64k
Wario of Seven - 60k
Excite Truck - 32k
Dragon Shadow Spell - 30k
Sekaiju no Meikyu - 23k

As I see it, there are two non-franchise RPGs from niche publishers there. Should we spin Nippon Ichi's almost identical first day sales for Dragon Shadow Spell as an indicator that third parties should fear Sony consoles?

 

[LanceStern]

Really low start for Etrian Odyssey.

Why is that low?

It's hardly advertised, the budget seemed small, etc. etc.
Judging by last weeks thread, this should be a SUCCESS to you, link to the past, and all the others

 

[Jonnyram]

Really low start for Etrian Odyssey.

Considering the timing, I don't think it's bad. Plus it's bound to have legs, and excellent word of mouth. I read on one retailer blog that Gears of War looks set to sell the 30k ltd editions very soon - it seems to be selling pretty well, inspite of the Z-rating.

 

[RaijinFY]

I cant believe Excite Truck might outsold most of PS3 games (assuming it has some legs of course)...........

 

[Avalon]

Until a major 3rd party effort bombs it's hard to say. 23k 1st day isn't bad, even considering the frontloaded nature of most Japanese released.

I would consider Etrian Odyssey a major third party effort... but I guess 23k isn't bad considering 100k seem to be what they were shooting for.

The game sounds fantastic though, I can't believe it didn't do a lot better.

 

[Pureauthor]

I would consider Etrian Odyssey a major third party effort... but I guess 23k isn't bad considering 100k seem to be what they were shooting for.

The game sounds fantastic though, I can't believe it didn't do a lot better.

It's a niche title aimed at the hardcore... like a lot of Atlus developed/published games.

To not take it into context lands you in the same crowd screaming themselves hoarse everytime a game they (but not necessarily anyone else) likes doesn't sell to their expectations.

 

[LanceStern]

In other news....

When was the last time ONE game (not a combination like Pokemon) broke 4 Million in Japan? Was there EVER any other game besides Mario for GB and Mario for NES?

If so, and even if so, this is truly a groundbreaking landmark. 4 freaking million in less than a year.

Oh they back

 

[Deku]

I would consider Etrian Odyssey a major third party effort... but I guess 23k isn't bad considering 100k seem to be what they were shooting for.

The game sounds fantastic though, I can't believe it didn't do a lot better.

Atlus is not a major publisher though and RPGs like Etrian Odyssey are a dime a dozen in Japan. Not to diminish the game of course. If it did sell 90% of its stock then Atlus only shipped 26k copies to stores.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Actually, word has it that Sekaiju sold off 90% of the entire initial shipment. As I said the other day, sounds like another Atlus undershippaton! :lol

if 90% is 23k... they only shipped 26k? Well... can't say they didn't meet their expectations. I really love Atlus sometimes.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Considering the timing, I don't think it's bad. Plus it's bound to have legs, and excellent word of mouth. I read on one retailer blog that Gears of War looks set to sell the 30k ltd editions very soon - it seems to be selling pretty well, inspite of the Z-rating.

Yesterday all 15 of my Japanese Xbox Live friends were playing Gears of War and it was like 1am. I doubt most stores are ordering large numbers, but lots of stores in Akihabara and near my house in Kanagawa are sold out of it.

Its definitely looks like its going to be the best selling game since Blue Dragon.

 

[Pureauthor]

Why is that low?

It's hardly advertised, the budget seemed small, etc. etc.
Judging by last weeks thread, this should be a SUCCESS to you, link to the past, and all the others

They managed to push 60fps on this game. Dude, no.

 

[ethelred]

I would consider Etrian Odyssey a major third party effort... but I guess 23k isn't bad considering 100k seem to be what they were shooting for.

The game sounds fantastic though, I can't believe it didn't do a lot better.

Well, like I said... Rune Factory and Chocobo provide good bits of historical precedent here. Both games started around 30k -- Rune Factory's passed 100k, Chocobo should hit it soon enough. As long as Etrian sells for a little while (which shouldn't be too hard), it can hit that, too.

And realistically? If it sold 90% of its shipment, there really wasn't much of a chance that it would do better.

Considering the timing, I don't think it's bad. Plus it's bound to have legs, and excellent word of mouth.

True. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Why is that low?

It's hardly advertised, the budget seemed small, etc. etc.

I don't know how you can have any idea what the advertising level on the game is. Do you live in Japan?

Judging by last weeks thread, this should be a SUCCESS to you, link to the past, and all the others

I will consider it a success if it meets whatever expectations Atlus has for the game. I hoped for more initially, but if it sold 90% of its shipment, that's not very possible. I'm not going to pass any final evaluations on the game's performance until it's had a chance to sell for a span of a month or so, so we can get a better idea of where it'll end up in terms of its lifetime sales... and then we can compare those sales to other Atlus RPGs, to other comparable games on the DS, etc.

That's a better way of evaluating performance rather than setting a benchmark across-the-board number, but let's not get into this again, please.

I would consider Etrian Odyssey a major third party effort... but I guess 23k isn't bad considering 100k seem to be what they were shooting for.

The game sounds fantastic though, I can't believe it didn't do a lot better.

Let's look at similar Atlus games.

Shin Megami Tensei III - ~250k
SMT III Maniax - ~78k
Avatar Tuners - ~150k
Avatar Tuners 2 - ~90k
Persona 3 - ~210k
Devil Summoner - ~77k

This gives us something to look at in terms of past Atlus performances. We can compare Etrian Odyssey against those. If it pulls in 100k in the end, I'll hardly consider that a disappointing outcome.

 

[LanceStern]

In that case they must be downright terrified of the PS3.
I kid i kid. Until a major 3rd party effort bombs it's hard to say. 23k 1st day isn't bad, even considering the frontloaded nature of most Japanese released.

*Looks at*:

Tales of Tempest
Winning Eleven

And to some extenet Mushikings but that doesn't count.

Other than that, mostly success for the 3rd parties so far, at least for ONE of their titles

 

[Avalon]

It's a niche title aimed at the hardcore... like a lot of Atlus developed/published games.

To not take it into context lands you in the same crowd screaming themselves hoarse everytime a game they (but not necessarily anyone else) likes doesn't sell to their expectations.

Yeah yeah... I forget sometimes.

Atlus is not a major publisher though and RPGs like Etrian Odyssey are a dime a dozen in Japan. Not to diminish the game of course. If it did sell 90% of its stock then Atlus only shipped 26k copies to stores.

No. It's still an Atlus R&D1 title. Just because it doesn't belong to the mainstream that doesn't make it generic.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I will consider it a success if it meets whatever expectations Atlus has for the game. I hoped for more initially, but if it sold 90% of its shipment, that's not very possible. I'm not going to pass any final evaluations on the game's performance until it's had a chance to sell for a span of a month or so, so we can get a better idea of where it'll end up in terms of its lifetime sales... and then we can compare those sales to other Atlus RPGs, to other comparable games on the DS, etc.

I say we compare it to Contact. BIG SUCCESS!!

 

[LanceStern]

They managed to push 60fps on this game. Dude, no.

Fps =/= budget. Over the hedge has an excellent showcase of the 3d graphics engine for DS... so does Tony Hawk titles, and stuff like that. But whatever.

And i don't plan on it ethelred. It's too good of a week for all companies to be pessimistic.

(b^.^)b to NSMB for the 4 million benchmark. And soon, Animal Crossing will join it.
(b^.^)b to PSP for staying and fighting in the race. I like it's console-like games like Daxter, Hot Shots, Nfs (sue me) etc.

Well... I'll give half a thumbs up to Wii. Excellent sales for it and the Sports/play.

 

[ethelred]

Well... I'll give half a thumbs up to Wii. Excellent sales for it and the Sports/play.

That's very generous of you.

I think Japan is extending a finger upwards for you, too, though it's not the thumb.

 

[jj984jj]

*Looks at*:

Tales of Tempest
Winning Eleven

And to some extenet Mushikings but that doesn't count.

Other than that, mostly success for the 3rd parties so far, at least for ONE of their titles

Namco and Konami deserve it (teaches them not to half-ass their effort on the DS), obviously word of mouth in those cases made it worse for them.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Namco and Konami deserve it (teaches them not to half-ass their effort on the DS), obviously word of mouth in those cases made it worse for them.

Specially for TotT. My heart sank when that video of the ending was put up only 10 hours after the video of the beginning...

 

[cvxfreak]

There are crates of ToTs in many shops in Tokyo and Osaka. It goes for about 1980 Yen now. Talk about mega bomba.

 

[jj984jj]

People are buying Wii to resell them as well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D5hRylZmYdsY

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Namco and Konami deserve it (teaches them not to half-ass their effort on the DS), obviously word of mouth in those cases made it worse for them.

Its generally a good sign that a game is absolute garbage when its price drops more than half within 2 weeks of release. You can find Tales of the Tempest new for like 1480 Yen in Japan now. Seiken Densetsu 4 dropped like 2000+ Yen in 2 days if I remember correctly.

 

[Deku]

People are buying Wii to resell them as well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D5hRylZmYdsY

Sensationalists. Right now if there's a shortage, its the Chinese illegals buying it all up to resell on the Internet.

Sony should put out a press release saying Chinese resellers have the other 500k PS3s they shipped to Japan.

 

[JJConrad]

I really think Sony should be applauded for being able to keep heir supply above their demand... unlike a certain other company who must not really care much about Japan.

Going back to Final Fantasy XIII on Wii... I don't see S-E canning the PS3 game, but I could see them scrapping the "XIII" from the title and/or reposistioning the game as a spin-off of the main game. I don't think they'd risk the reputation of the series by putting the "true" sequel on a "failing" platform. It would take a thorough ass-kicking for that to happen, but crazier things have happened.

I don't think its time to crown Wii has the winner (though the LotR chart needs redone), but there is absolutely no denying that Nintendo is serious competition.

 

[jj984jj]

I really think Sony should be applauded for being able to keep heir supply above their demand... unlike a certain other company who must not really care much about Japan.

JJConrad
Sucks at viral marketing

 

[Joe Molotov]

I really think Sony should be applauded for being able to keep heir supply above their demand... unlike a certain other company who must not really care much about Japan.

If demand for DS's was 25k a week, I'm sure Nintendo would have no problem with supply either. :lol

 

[LanceStern]

Hey didn't Namco at least TRY for the game?

I mean, I was saying it was butt ugly, but I remember a lot of people were impressed at the graphics Namco was seemingly working endless nights to try and get the most out of the DS.

If I could find the topic, there'd probably be a quote about how someone was glad that a third party was really trying on the DS

 

[ethelred]

Hey didn't Namco at least TRY for the game?

I mean, I was saying it was butt ugly, but I remember a lot of people were impressed at the graphics Namco was seemingly working endless nights to try and get the most out of the DS.

If I could find the topic, there'd probably be a quote about how someone was glad that a third party was really trying on the DS

Yes, and then folks discovered it was outsourced to a company with zero RPG experience, that it had horrible gameplay and poor creative oversight, that despite the Tales Studio label they had no involvement outside of the music, and that it was a 10 hour game when folks had expected a fuller experience.

People surely said it looked like a serious third part efforts before these facts became known, but to paraphrase Keynes, when the facts change, opinions should change to match. "Competent graphics" is not automatically synonymous with "putting a serious effort into making a good game."

 

[Galactic Fork]

Hey didn't Namco at least TRY for the game?

I mean, I was saying it was butt ugly, but I remember a lot of people were impressed at the graphics Namco was seemingly working endless nights to try and get the most out of the DS.

If I could find the topic, there'd probably be a quote about how someone was glad that a third party was really trying on the DS

I thought it looked really good, but really, that just meant it was a good looking piece of crap. 10 hours for a tales game?? And It was outsourced. That's not trying.

 

[LanceStern]

Yes, and then folks discovered it was outsourced to a company with zero RPG experience, that it had horrible gameplay and poor creative oversight, that despite the Tales Studio label they had no involvement outside of the music, and that it was a 10 hour game when folks had expected a fuller experience.

People surely said it looked like a serious third part efforts before these facts became known, but to paraphrase Keynes, when the facts change, opinions should change to match. "Competent graphics" is not automatically synonymous with "putting a serious effort into making a good game."

You won't get an argument from me there.

GAF says potato, Namco says "We'll milk our Tales games and try to fool Japan into buying a crappy, half-***ed effort" tato

 

[RaijinFY]

JJConrad
Sucks at viral marketing

More like sarcasm.

 

[ethelred]

You won't get an argument from me there.

If I'd get no argument, why do you keep arguing the exact opposite of what I said, that this was a serious, major, stellar effort?

Seriously, man, what's your damage?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I don't get how you go from selling 1 million PS2s overnight in Japan to running out of gas at 600k 2 months in with the PS3.

The Core PS3 isn't that much more expensive than the launch PS2 was. I mean ... wtf Kutaragi. This should have been in the bag.

Nintendo changed the market around them.

I maintain that even if the PS3 was more of a competitive price it would be a hard sell in Japan, because Nintendo is changing the types of games that the populace wants.

 

[LanceStern]

If I'd get no argument, why do you keep arguing the exact opposite of what I said, that this was a serious, major, stellar effort?

Seriously, man, what's your damage?

Oh no I won't consider it a major effort anymore after you showed it to me in that light. Kinda like when you listed the PS2 rpg sales to convince that RPGs really don't sell much over 300k in Japan even with PS2's 20 million+ fanbase.

But at least Namco tried somewhat to please DS fans. They slapped the Tales name on the game to convince us they cared for the DS :lol

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Oh no I won't consider it a major effort anymore after you showed it to me in that light. Kinda like when you listed the PS2 rpg sales to convince that RPGs really don't sell much over 300k in Japan even with PS2's 20 million+ fanbase.

But at least Namco tried somewhat to please DS fans. They slapped the Tales name on the game to convince us they cared for the DS :lol

Namco did what they always seemed to do on a Nintendo hardware - Shit out a game and then expect it to sell a million copies despite it's quality.

 

[Avalon]

Namco did what they always seemed to do on a Nintendo hardware - Shit out a game and then expect it to sell a million copies despite it's quality.

Tales of Symphonia was probably the best in the series last generation...

 

[jj984jj]

You know I think retailers might've backed out on Atlus with Sekaiju no MeiQ since it is a new IP from a small developer. If they were aiming for 100K I think shipping out 30K to start with is a bit too low for a game like this.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

More thoughts on this week's sales.
*I know it's extremely early in the year, but so far things are up. Most returning systems are doing below that they did last year (DS and X360 being the exceptions), but due to new systems all three manufacturers have sold more units than last year. Total hardware sales for two weeks of 2007 are more than double total hardware sales for two weeks of 2006.
*DS 2007 is off to a good head start compared to DS 2006; it took DS 2006 until week 8 (451K) to pass what DS 2007 has done in two weeks (434K).
*At 289K, Wii 2007 has passed GCN 2005 (273K) and GCN 2006 (76K). GCN's 2004 also being pretty mediocre (696K), Wii's total has passed the GCN's combined 2004, 2005, and 2006 sales. This has more to do with GCN's later sales shittiness than Wii, though.

No source, just my memory of the market back then and recalling SS outselling the PS early on. If you have a source that's not VG charts, I'd like to see it and I'll correct myself if I'm mistaken. If your data is private I understand, you can just correct me.

Do you know SS's largest lead from the PS?

No, I've got nothing earlier; I was hoping you did.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Tales of Symphonia was probably the best in the series last generation...

..Then Namco all but abandoned developing it on Nintendo Hardware.

I'm mostly referring to Namco's ridiculous expectations for the DS hardware and their sales. though.

 

[Avalon]

You know I think retailers might've backed out on Atlus with Sekaiju no MeiQ since it is a new IP from a small developer. If they were aiming for 100K I think shipping out 30K to start with is a bit too low for a game like this.

Doesn't Atlus have Index backing them now?

..Then Namco all but abandoned developing it on Nintendo Hardware.

How did the game do, sales wise?

 

[LanceStern]

Tales of Symphonia was the best selling Tales in the US too: 460,000 units.

For gosh sakes it was almsot at 1 million worldwide and the idiots didn't even bother giving the GCN a second glance.

Instead they make Baten Kaitos, announce they expect it to sell half a million in JAPAN ALONE... it bombs EVERYWHERE HORRIBLY, and they make a sequel that can barely break 40,000 anywhere.

Why are they so stupid?

 

[jj984jj]

Index Japan? Some sort of distributer? Maybe they were the ones with the problem?

Nintendo made the sequel to Baten Kaitos, they probably were trying to keep the IP alive.

 

[ethelred]

You know I think retailers might've backed out on Atlus with Sekaiju no MeiQ since it is a new IP from a small developer. If they were aiming for 100K I think shipping out 30K to start with is a bit too low for a game like this.

Possibly. I'm going to remain hesitantly optimistic, though. I'm expecting good word of mouth, as Jonny said, and hopeful subsequent shipments will sell out as rapidly as this one.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Tales of Symphonia was the best selling Tales in the US too: 460,000 units.

For gosh sakes it was almsot at 1 million worldwide and the idiots didn't even bother giving the GCN a second glance.

Instead they make Baten Kaitos, announce they expect it to sell half a million in JAPAN ALONE... it bombs EVERYWHERE HORRIBLY, and they make a sequel that can barely break 40,000 anywhere.

Why are they so stupid?

From what I recall there were a lot of complaints in Japan because enthusiasts of the series didn't want to buy a gamecube to play the game when they already had PS2s. So Naturally Namco gave a big **** YOU to people who bought the game regardless and Nintendo fans by not releasing ToTA on both the PS2 and Cube.

I'm still trying to figure out Soul Calibur 3.

 

[Avalon]

Index Japan? Some sort of distributer? Maybe they were the ones with the problem?

Nintendo made the sequel to Baten Kaitos. They probably were trying to keep the IP alive.

New investors. They acquired somewhere something like 7 million shares. I'm sure someone knows more about it then me. :X

I can't say much about the first game, but the second Baten Kaitos is really great, easily the best GC RPG.... 40k though, ouch.

EDIT: Info from RPGfan. http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2006/1572.html

 

[LanceStern]

Possibly. I'm going to remain hesitantly optimistic, though. I'm expecting good word of mouth, as Jonny said, and hopeful subsequent shipments will sell out as rapidly as this one.

The sales in Japan were good enough to announce another GCN tales game. I mean it even increased GCN sales by a substantial amount that week.

INSTEAD they make Baten Kaitos and set ridiculous sales standards.

That's what I meant anyways >_>

Point is, Namco is stupid with their sales expectations