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[viciouskillersquirrel]

I would accept your opinion only if you tell me that you actually know that XI has one of the best, most extensive and compelling stories ever made by Square/SE and that would rival the likes of VI or VIII anyday.

But I'm 99% sure you know nothing about XI and think it's just some other random mmo that has no story.

I'm prepared to accept that. Can one person reasonably finish it by themselves, though?

I'm not saying that XI isn't a great MMO or even a great game. I'm certain it is incredible (haven't played it personally, but this is the general censensus), but its multiplayer, open-ended nature distinguishes it from other entries to the series and curtails its appeal to a large segment of the FF fanbase.

Or did you not pay attention to the announcement of FFXIV? The attitude of the majority of those watching went from jubilation to slight disappointment at the appearance of the word "online".

I should clarify my position, though. I disagree that S-E should be using the "numbered-Final-Fantasy" brand in this way for the same reason I don't think they should be releasing so many FF-branded spinoffs. It will dilute a powerful brand name and ultimately diminish its value, which will be detrimental to S-E as a whole.

My own personal opinion is that the MMOs will not provide me the experience I look for in a numbered Final Fantasy title. I therefore ignore it. I am almost certain my opinion is shared by the majority of the titles' audience.

 

[wrowa]

With the delayed Euro release schedule most of our Wii__ games came out near the summer and it seems to work well. Kudos to Nintendo for a world wide launch with this one.

Huh? Wii Sports, Wii Play und Wii Music were released in November / December. Solely Wii Fit was a summer release. That's far away from "most of our games".

 

[MotherFan]

I'm prepared to accept that. Can one person reasonably finish it by themselves, though?

I'm not saying that XI isn't a great MMO or even a great game. I'm certain it is incredible (haven't played it personally, but this is the general censensus), but its multiplayer, open-ended nature distinguishes it from other entries to the series and curtails its appeal to a large segment of the FF fanbase.

Or did you not pay attention to the announcement of FFXIV? The attitude of the majority of those watching went from jubilation to slight disappointment at the appearance of the word "online".

I should clarify my position, though. I disagree that S-E should be using the "numbered-Final-Fantasy" brand in this way for the same reason I don't think they should be releasing so many FF-branded spinoffs. It will dilute a powerful brand name and ultimately diminish its value, which will be detrimental to S-E as a whole.

My own personal opinion is that the MMOs will not provide me the experience I look for in a numbered Final Fantasy title. I therefore ignore it. I am almost certain my opinion is shared by the majority of the titles' audience.

You cannot finish the story with one person, it is impossible. The story is actually interesting, but you have to have a decent amount of help to finish any of it. Even a powerful character cannot finish it alone as some of the quests are level capped (which means when you enter the battlefield your lvl is automatically decreased to that lvl.).

I agree with you and I have played an extensive amount of ffxi (though not as much as some ) and had a lvl 73 white mage, lvl 37 black mage, level 36 summoner and some other lvl 20ish jobs. The reason I agree with you is twofold:

1) WoW is not a numbered entery into WC even though the story there is very good. So imo that invalidates the argument the story is good enough to put it as a numbered entry.

2) There are FF spinoffs that are very good and yet they still remain a spinoff even though they hold the spirit of FF just as much as 11. The reason they are spinoffs is due to the gameplay being very different than a core FF. FFT, FF: CC, etc. FFXI game play is very different than the numbered entries because it is an MMO.

Now, I am not saying that 11 should not have the FF name at all. It should. It has typical ff jobs and spells, airships, chocobos etc. It deserves that name. But, again, the spinoffs can have these elements as well. It is the gameplay imo that seperates the numbered games from the spinoffs and this is why it should have a spinoff title.

 

[Khrno]

I don't think this is a place (thread) to discuss why FFXI/XIV should or should not be numbered, I'll just add that SE considers these games to be as big, important and have as much production values as every other numbered FF game.

It's SE opinion to name these games with a number to tell all the players that these games are there their next big games (at its time each, of course), that they aren't just some spin off title like the Crystal Chronicles or Tactics series.

And just to go back into the sales topic, since we are in such thread, FFXI in Japan might not even match some Tactics or CC games, but it has certainly turned out to be their most profitable game ever, with just keeping some 200k-300k players (just giving out a number for japanese players) paying monthly fees duing 6 or so years.

 

[Jonnyram]

Some interesting price commentary at Hatimaki:
http://hatimaki.blog110.fc2.com/blog-entry-1321.html

Bic Camera online is selling the following!
Monster Hunter 2980 yen (59% off)
Gears of War 2 LE 4980 yen (46% off)
KOF13 3980 yen (44% off)
Magna Carta 2 4980 yen (40% off)
Blood of Bahamut 2980 yen (50% off)

Limited to one per person.

 

[dolemite]

Some interesting price commentary at Hatimaki:
http://hatimaki.blog110.fc2.com/blog-entry-1321.html

Bic Camera online is selling the following!
Monster Hunter 2980 yen (59% off)
Gears of War 2 LE 4980 yen (46% off)
KOF13 3980 yen (44% off)
Magna Carta 2 4980 yen (40% off)
Blood of Bahamut 2980 yen (50% off)

Limited to one per person.

Price collapses in Week 2, eh?

 

[schuelma]

Price collapses in Week 2, eh?

For Monster Hunter, I'm not shocked- the standalone pack probably had a shipment of 500K or so and didn't even sell through 40% of that in the first week. That's a whole lot of units available. By contrast, the bundles had a 70% sell through rate and we'll probably see additional shipments of those.

 

[duckroll]

Bomba of Bahamut?

 

[king zell]

For Monster Hunter, I'm not shocked- the standalone pack probably had a shipment of 500K or so and didn't even sell through 40% of that in the first week. That's a whole lot of units available. By contrast, the bundles had a 70% sell through rate and we'll probably see additional shipments of those.

we got the first week sales? it was just for 2 days

 

[schuelma]

we got the first week sales? it was just for 2 days

Sorry, I just meant 1st week=1st reported week, which obviously was 2 days.

 

[Jonnyram]

Bomba of Bahamut?

It goes without saying really. Bahamut's biggest failure was coming out 3 weeks after DQIX.

 

[duckroll]

It goes without saying really. Bahamut's biggest failure was coming out 3 weeks after DQIX.

I would say it's biggest failure is not being an interesting enough concept for most people to bother with. A mission based action "rpg" which takes place exclusively on platforms is not my idea of fun.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Sorry, I never picked up this FFXI discussion after my first post. Let me continue from my original point. I was responding to viciouskillersquirrel's assertion that the Final Fantasy name was just dropped on the MMO to rake in some extra cash. My response was that Final Fantasy XI is a Final Fantasy game through and through. Note that I was defending it as a Final Fantasy title, not as a numbered installment.

I don't think the Online games should be numbered, not because they aren't worthy (FFXI is really an impressive product), but because I think it actually limits the potential of the games (buying FFXI after FFXII is out is confusing for some), artificially inflates the number on a series that's already getting stupidly long in the tooth to use numbers for (Final Fantasy 14? Really? 14? When does this end?), and confuses the customer base by being a multiplayer only installment in a series that is known for being single player only.

That said, I'm going to put on my devil horns for one comment.

1) WoW is not a numbered entery into WC even though the story there is very good. So imo that invalidates the argument the story is good enough to put it as a numbered entry.

2) There are FF spinoffs that are very good and yet they still remain a spinoff even though they hold the spirit of FF just as much as 11. The reason they are spinoffs is due to the gameplay being very different than a core FF. FFT, FF: CC, etc. FFXI game play is very different than the numbered entries because it is an MMO.

Now, I am not saying that 11 should not have the FF name at all. It should. It has typical ff jobs and spells, airships, chocobos etc. It deserves that name. But, again, the spinoffs can have these elements as well. It is the gameplay imo that seperates the numbered games from the spinoffs and this is why it should have a spinoff title.

1) WoW is an interesting comparison. It's a total genre shift (from RTS to RPG) but not as different in that previous Warcraft games were largely enjoyed as multiplayer affairs, just like WoW. Final Fantasy is not a genre shift (RPG to RPG) but it is a shift from single to multi. Ultimately I think these franchises are only superficially similar so it's rather hard to compare them.

2) The gameplay in Final Fantasy XII was very different from the other numbered entries. Should it be a spin-off? How about Final Fantasy II? The gameplay in 4 Warriors of Light looks closer to the main series, is it not a spin-off, but rather should be titled Final Fantasy XV? Unfortunately, a game's status as a spin-off is ultimately decided by one entity and one entity alone: the owner of the franchise.

 

[onken]

Some interesting price commentary at Hatimaki:
http://hatimaki.blog110.fc2.com/blog-entry-1321.html

Bic Camera online is selling the following!
Monster Hunter 2980 yen (59% off)
Gears of War 2 LE 4980 yen (46% off)
KOF13 3980 yen (44% off)
Magna Carta 2 4980 yen (40% off)
Blood of Bahamut 2980 yen (50% off)

Limited to one per person.

MH week 2 sales are going to be interesting.

 

[Spiegel]

For Monster Hunter, I'm not shocked- the standalone pack probably had a shipment of 500K or so and didn't even sell through 40% of that in the first week. That's a whole lot of units available. By contrast, the bundles had a 70% sell through rate and we'll probably see additional shipments of those.

Not necessarilly.
MH3 can be played without Classic Controller (unlike MHG) and I doubt Capcom will ship many units if there are still thousands of copies still at retail and when the CC can be bought separately.

 

[schuelma]

Not necessarilly.
MH3 can be played without Classic Controller (unlike MHG) and I doubt Capcom will ship many units if there are still thousands of copies still at retail and when the CC can be bought separately.

Well, if the bundle is selling out and the standalone pack isn't selling, I think its a reasonable assumption that they'll at least give the Pro pack a small restock.

 

[Spiegel]

Well, if the bundle is selling out and the standalone pack isn't selling, I think its a reasonable assumption that they'll at least give the Pro pack a small restock.

Before asking for more bundles, if having a CC Pro bundled matters that much, I think stores will try to make unofficial ones (MH3 + CC Pro).

 

[Jonnyram]

Before asking for more bundles, if having a CC Pro bundled matters that much, I think stores will try to make unofficial ones (MH3 + CC Pro).

Also, the CC Pro would have to be sufficiently manufactured. You'd need a bit of help from Nintendo on that front - not sure if they're pumping them out by the truckload.

 

[donny2112]

I think its a reasonable assumption that they'll at least give the Pro pack a small restock.

Wasn't there a restock of the MHG CC bundle even though there were plenty of the solo disk available?

 

[schuelma]

Wasn't there a restock of the MHG CC bundle even though there were plenty of the solo disk available?

Yes I believe so.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Oh snap.

I just spent 4 days in Iowa. I came back in anticipation of a series of photos involving you eating a hat. Why hasn't this happened yet? I demand it!

 

[donny2112]

I just spent 4 days in Iowa. I came back in anticipation of a series of photos involving you eating a hat. Why hasn't this happened yet? I demand it!

Dengeki had the Wii over 100K for the week.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Dengeki had the Wii over 100K for the week.

It's a Media Create thread.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It's a Media Create thread.

You're going to masturbate while he eats the hat aren't you?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Yeah.... Monster Hunter Tri having a price drop in week two does not bode well for its future.

I mean, a Price Collapse, already?

 

[dolemite]

It's a Media Create thread.

Burn the heretic

 

[schuelma]

Yeah.... Monster Hunter Tri having a price drop in week two does not bode well for its future.

I mean, a Price Collapse, already?

Seems like the exact same thing that happened with MH G- high demand for the CC pack, little demand for the standalone. I think the standalone for G got discounted pretty quickly as well.

 

[ccbfan]

Seems like the exact same thing that happened with MH G- high demand for the CC pack, little demand for the standalone. I think the standalone for G got discounted pretty quickly as well.

Makes little sense though.

At least with MHG, the special pack came with a special controller and was a game that could only be play with the CC.

In this case with the MH3 price collapse. MH3 standalone + Controller standalone is cheaper than MH3 controller pack.

 

[cvxfreak]

Yes, I've noticed over the last week and a half that most MH buyers are interested in the CC bundle. Come to think of it, aside from day one, I've never seen a standalone bundle get transacted. That said, I was at Bic yesterday and did not see this pricing at all. Same goes for the other games. Their website has it, though.

Capcom and Nintendo should encourage retailers to price the standalone game and controllers together at the same price as the bundle if they're having that much trouble moving non-bundles. Actually, people need to stop buying the bundle while Bic has that price. :lol

 

[schuelma]

Makes little sense though.

At least with MHG, the special pack came with a special controller.

In this case with the MH3 price collapse. MH3 standalone + Controller standalone is cheaper than MH3 controller pack.

I'm just saying that seems like what has happened- the packs had a 70% sell through rate after 2 days and the standalone is already being discounted by at least one major retailer.

 

[schuelma]

Yes, I've noticed over the last week and a half that most MH buyers are interested in the CC bundle. Come to think of it, aside from day one, I've never seen a standalone bundle get transacted. That said, I was at Bic yesterday and did not see this pricing at all. Same goes for the other games. Their website has it, though.

Are there still plenty of CC bundles available?

 

[ccbfan]

Yeah.... Monster Hunter Tri having a price drop in week two does not bode well for its future.

I mean, a Price Collapse, already?

I think its especially bad for MH3.

MH3 is really only going to get one chance to prove its leg. You know Capcom already have MHP3 announcement presentation ready and how soon they announce that probably heavily depends on how much sales they can get out of MH3. Any slipping by MH3 would only accelerate that announcement. The second MHP3 gets announced and its pretty much the end for MH3 in Japan.

 

[cvxfreak]

Are there still plenty of CC bundles available?

Their numbers have certainly dwindled. They had mountains of the thing on launch day (package sizing inflated of course). If Capcom and Nintendo don't plan on replenishing stock, then I think the bundle's gone in less than a month.

 

[Spiegel]

Let's wait until tomorrow before making conclusions because for now, it seems like the discount is only happening at one store.

Any bets for the second week?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Anyone know the breakdown of CC Pro bundles vs standalone? If there are more CC Pro units released anyway, it might not be as bad as we think. But I think it's probably worse.

 

[doicare]

What the hey this weeks predictions are:

(wii) Monster Hunter 3 - 130,000
(wii) SD Gundam G Generation Wars - 32,000
(ps2) SD Gundam G Generation Wars - 190,000
(psp) Tales of Versus - 150,000

wii hardware less than 35,000.

 

[cvxfreak]

Anyone know the breakdown of CC Pro bundles vs standalone? If there are more CC Pro units released anyway, it might not be as bad as we think. But I think it's probably worse.

The actual sales ratio was 2:1.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

The actual sales ratio was 2:1.

I meant shipments.

 

[Kenka]

"Bad" segmentation from Capcom. If the Wii bundle is sold out, I predict the console to still be around 40'000 depending on what was the second shipment (if any occured).

 

[Spiegel]

Anyone know the breakdown of CC Pro bundles vs standalone? If there are more CC Pro units released anyway, it might not be as bad as we think. But I think it's probably worse.

We know that 40% of the standalone copies and 70% of the bundles were sold in the first week. Knowing that the first shipment was about 1 million, I'd say they shipped more standalone copies.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

We know that 40% of the standalone copies and 70% of the bundles were sold in the first week. Knowing that the first shipment was about 1 million, I'd say they shipped more standalone copies.

Monster Bomba, then.

 

[schuelma]

Anyone know the breakdown of CC Pro bundles vs standalone? If there are more CC Pro units released anyway, it might not be as bad as we think. But I think it's probably worse.

From the Media Create numbers, we know that the bundles sold 70% and the standalone sold less than 40%, and that sales of the bundle outsold the standalone 2:1.

Depending on what the actual shipment was, I got something like 330K bundles sold, 165 standalone which would give you about 475K bundles and maybe 430K standalone? (this is using Media Create's shipment number which was lower than a million- these numbers aren't the same if going by Famitsu).

 

[cvxfreak]

I meant shipments.

If I knew that too, I would have mentioned it.

I actually think the standalones and bundles may have been evenly matched in terms of shipments, or somewhere close. If it were calculated on that basis, what would we end up with?

 

[ccbfan]

Their numbers have certainly dwindled. They had mountains of the thing on launch day (package sizing inflated of course). If Capcom and Nintendo don't plan on replenishing stock, then I think the bundle's gone in less than a month.

Are you being conservative when you used less than a month as in. "I think it'll sell out in a week but I'll use less than a month to be safe" or is it more "I think it'll take about 3-4 weeks to sell out".

Cause if its the first then it good cause it'll probably get a restock. If its the 2nd then its pretty bad. With how space conscious Japanese retailers are, I'm not sure they would restock suck a bulky package especially if they already have a ton of standalones remaining that they're already price collapsing to get rid of.

 

[cvxfreak]

Are you being conservative when you used less than a month as in. "I think it'll sell out in a week but I'll use less than a month to be safe" or is it more "I think it'll take about 3-4 weeks to sell out".

Cause if its the first then it good cause it'll probably get a restock. If its the 2nd then its pretty bad. With how space conscious Japanese retailers are, I'm not sure they would restock suck a bulky package especially if they already have a ton of standalones remaining that they're already price collapsing to get rid of.

First scenario. I'm not privy to what retailers keep in their store rooms, you know, nor do I keep watch at 6AM for when shipment trucks arrive. Just because the mountains of bundles behind the counters in a few game shops in Tokyo and Osaka have become little hills, doesn't mean they have run out.

 

[onken]

Yeah.... Monster Hunter Tri having a price drop in week two does not bode well for its future.

I mean, a Price Collapse, already?

It should post reasonable numbers for week 2 thanks to the 2 day first week, I'm going to say 210k. Week 3 however, not looking too rosy.

 

[schuelma]

We know that 40% of the standalone copies and 70% of the bundles were sold in the first week. Knowing that the first shipment was about 1 million, I'd say they shipped more standalone copies.

Like I posted below I don't think that is true. Remember, the bundle also outsold the standalone 2:1.

 

[LINK.AGE76]

I predicted 280k for the second week last week and i hold up on it. I believe it will have long legs but not as long at the MHP games.

 

[wrowa]

As long as the CCPro bundle is still available, people don't will buy the standalone version. After that the bundle is sold out the sales of the standalone version will begin to rise. It's just my personal guess, but I'm confident that people are simply not buying the game without the CC because they don't see a reason to buy the naked game while the bundle is still available.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

As long as the CCPro bundle is still available, people don't will buy the standalone version. After that the bundle is sold out the sales of the standalone version will begin to rise. It's just my personal guess, but I'm confident that people are simply not buying the game without the CC because they don't see a reason to buy the naked game while the bundle is still available.

That's what I would guess as well. It's something that we might have to wait another couple of weeks to see, but I wold figure that we'll see the standalone version sell better once the CCPro bundle is no longer available.