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[feint_ruled]

I didn´t want to answer to this kind of posts but keep in mind that a neutral post that actually was about how I didn´t expect a significant decline in PSV hardwware sales due to a better software release schedule compared to last week, kicked off the meltdown of some Sony fans.

The reason for this reaction is clear, I think. Most people did not expect the Vita to rise at all. Your post, saying you did not expect them to be surprised is the like a kid coming home to his parents with an A and being shrugged off with "Well, it's your best subject, I would have expected that". The achievement has been subtly undermined, minimized, even though no specific criticism was given. A back-handed compliment, as it is known.

You are the proverbial skeleton at the feast. Such people are rarely popular, even if they speak the truth.

 

[michaelius]

I'm calling Laguna out because he is posing himself to be an unfairly criticized victim and paragon of objectivity.


And I'm perfectly clear to show where my sympathy lies.

 

[QaaQer]

Sorry we have brains - seeing though your "neutral" comments is as hard as seeing through politician promisses during the election.



No numbers to comment

true. even if there were, I doubt there would be much drama as the UK market is pretty dull.

Skyzard and Luguana keep the thread lively, and aren't insulting. Glad that 'bitch' guy was banned.

 

[Taker666]

Nice... Thanks for the info!

Now let's just wait for next week and the numbers...

Game & Wario isn't going to sell well (certainly not when looking at the charts at Amazon..it never entered the top 20..barely dented the top 40). Probably looking at under 20k...if that.

 

[SmokyDave]

You are calling out Laguna for that post, but give Skyzard free pass for this?

Why is everyone jumping on Skyzard for that post? All he's saying is that the difference isn't as large as one might expect, given the disparity in install bases. Disagree by all means but it doesn't stand out as particularly 'mockable'. Certainly not in the same league as the post that inspired it, anyway.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Every single Nintendo handheld yet released?

Data?

 

[michaelius]

true. even if there were, I doubt there would be much drama as the UK market is pretty dull.

Also true- discussion needs dynamic change like we had here with price drop and market response to it. With UK market following same patters for months it's like beating a dead horse.

 

[DaBoss]

Why is everyone jumping on Skyzard for that post? All he's saying is that the difference isn't as large as one might expect, given the disparity in install bases. Disagree by all means but it doesn't stand out as particularly 'mockable'. Certainly not in the same league as the post that inspired it, anyway.

His series of posts is almost as ridiculous as Laguna's. That's all there is too it. That particular one is easily mockable.

 

[Exterminieren]

Why is everyone jumping on Skyzard for that post? All he's saying is that the difference isn't as large as one might expect, given the disparity in install bases. Disagree by all means but it doesn't stand out as particularly 'mockable'. Certainly not in the same league as the post that inspired it, anyway.

He's saying that those figures show that one Vita owner is worth 3 3DS owners to publishers, which is a laughable mangling of the facts.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

His series of posts is almost as ridiculous as Laguna's. That's all there is too it. That particular one is easily mockable.

Nothing is as bad as this:

Since we are in a good mood. It´s quite hilarious that a game staring a side-character with a vacuum-cleaner sold about 3 times more than PSVs hope and "turnaround" title Soul Sacrifice in its first week.

Its like he hates hearing any positive Sony news and wants the discussion to immediately go negative towards Sony. Its pathetic.

Skyzard might be a bit delusional, I cannot tell if he is joking sometimes or not, but at least he doesn't downplay nintendo every time.

Whats also frankly disturbing is that Laguna thinks he is being victimised and does not have an agenda. I mean come on, one look at his post history (not something I do usually but I was interested this time) and its clear as day what his agenda is.

 

[Laguna]

@feint_ruled
The reactions have been completely embarassing. It´s not my fault that people actually completely ignored the new releases (especiall One Piece) and later even the holiday, also the sales have been 36k units last week so it was more than reasonable on my part. I was just surprised that other members actually expected a significant drop compared to last week that´s all, that´s nothing to go on rampage about in my opinion.

His series of posts is almost as ridiculous as Laguna's. That's all there is too it. That particular one is easily mockable.

That´s very nice of you, but factually correct and reasonably explained comparisons beats a factually wrong and inconsistent post anyday in my opiniion, but you are free to prefer the latter of course.


@michaelius
What exactly was wrong with my statement? that I didn´t expect a significant decline compared to last week?

 

[AdventureRacing]

Why is everyone jumping on Skyzard for that post? All he's saying is that the difference isn't as large as one might expect, given the disparity in install bases. Disagree by all means but it doesn't stand out as particularly 'mockable'. Certainly not in the same league as the post that inspired it, anyway.

He said that those 2 games prove that every vita owner is worth 3 3DS owners. That's ignoring all the other factors that come into play (and also that the 3DS has a better attach rate as far as i remember).

If that post isn't 'mockable' i don't know what is.

 

[sechsterangriff]

All he's saying is that the difference isn't as large as one might expect, given the disparity in install bases.

There's indeed a perception that PSVita users buy a lot of games backed by a high attach ratio and that it may compensate the lower install base to a certain point.
But until we start consistently seeing it in the context of multi-platform releases on 3DS and PSV, statements like that just come as far-fetched.
The poor wording and "jump to conclusions" didn't help his case very much either.

 

[Bruno MB]

Edit: Nevermind.

 

[Magicpaint]

Data?

You're asking for data that doesn't exist. However given past precedence of Pokemon driving hardware sales, it is not outlandish to suggest that several thousands of Pokemon fans have yet to board on the 3DS train

 

[michaelius]

@feint_ruled
@michaelius
What exactly was wrongg with my statement that I didn´t expect a significant decline compared to last week?

Apart from trying to downplay positive change for platform you don't like after fact and not before numbers were posted you mean ?

If you were so sure you should have posted that before numbers were out.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

I finally caught up and I cant tell if skyzards posts are mockery or not. They kinda came across that way.

Meh either way. Laguna's "everyone against me is a fanboy" attitude is back and in full force I see.

Not just him but plenty of really meaningless comparisons going on.

You cant ever compare 2 games in such ways as have been in this thread (by more than just one person). Time of release and amount of hype are terrible points of comparison. Its only just about acceptable to do it based on the same genre of game. An accurate comparison could only be made if the same game came out on both systems. Then you might actually be able to get some useful data regarding things like attach rate and casual Vs Core user bases.

For example if soul sacrifice came out on both Vita and 3DS and they sold about the same, that might mean something.

Anyway the thread has been pretty amusing I give it that.

And Laguna your first post in the thread kinda of asked for the reactions it got. The way you said it was very high and mighty and hyperbolic of peoples reactions. Its not a surprise people called you out on it.

You are allowed your opinions but when someone disagrees, you either call them a fanboy or claim you have backed your point up with facts despite those 'facts' being totally irrelevant. If someone (or many people in a lot of cases) point this out to you you just seem to ignore it and just claim again you have backed up your ideas with facts.

Basically, if you are going to state your thoughts and back them up with numbers that don't mean much, don't react so negatively and act like you are being attacked by fanboys when people call you out on it. Only one person needlessly attacked you and they have rightly been banned for it.

People clearly explained why the KI and SS comparisons are meaningless (the simple fact they are totally different kinds of games is good enough to dismiss it). Same applies to the LM2 and SS comparison but you did say you were just joking about with that one.

I dont know. Just try and act less defensive if you want the negativity towards you to stop.

 

[SmokyDave]

Eh, fair play chaps. I overlooked Skyzard's 'conclusion' when I was thinking of his post. I thought the point about the install bases was sound, but not the conclusion it lead to.

 

[Laguna]

Apart from trying to downplay positive change for platform you don't like after fact and not before numbers were posted you mean ?

If you were so sure you should have posted that before numbers were out.

Please explain what was wrong with my argumentation against a significant decline.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

You're asking for data that doesn't exist. However given past precedence of Pokemon driving hardware sales, it is not outlandish to suggest that several thousands of Pokemon fans have yet to board on the 3DS train

Different world and different world environment for handheld games. That´s why handheld market is shrinking a lot in the west regardless of what people want to delude themselves with. The XL + NSMB2 + MK7 the games which sell twice as much as Pokemon could not sustain the 3DS nor a new hardware revision. Sales are shrinking YOY, and there´s no reason to think, at least in the west, that the kids who want to buy Pokemon, largely i think, have already a 3DS since Mario games are targeting the same audience.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Please explain what was wrong with my argumentation against a significant decline.

Well for a start none of the games release this week indicate people bought Vitas just for those. The install base is big enough that any of those games might have sold that much to its current user base.

It could simply be the price drop, new colours, SS and PSO2 are still the things selling the Vitas. We dont know any of this as facts.

Also it isn't even what you said. Its how you said it. Saying like a know it all and then then acting like people are celabrating Vita sales when almost everyone just said "hay thats kinda suprising. Good to hear".

It just had a pretty insulting tone to it. It wasn't the fact you said you we not surprised in the numbers staying the same.

Have you also forgotten the people that thought it would have dropped back down by now as well? There are obvious reasons why people are surprised that the Vita numbers held.

 

[Magicpaint]

Different world and different world environment for handheld games. That´s why handheld market is shrinking a lot in the west regardless of what people want to delude themselves with. The XL + NSMB2 + MK7 the games which sell twice as much as Pokemon could not sustain the 3DS nor a new hardware revision. Sales are shrinking YOY, and there´s no reason to think, at least in the west, that the kids who want to buy Pokemon, largely i think, have already a 3DS since Mario games are targeting the same audience.

You can't use only raw sales numbers to define system selling potential. NSMB and Mario Kart games are evergreen titles that benefit from a healthy ecosystem which is why they continually sell in the long run, but Pokemon is a lot more of a "blockbuster" title out the gates so the situations aren't directly comparable. The DSLite didn't hit peak sales in the US until after Diamond/Pearl were released for example. I'm not saying they don't sell systems, of course they do, but the Pokemon userbase is a lot more dedicated. Anyway, that's the question mark concerning the west and we'll see in due time. However, in Japan, it's obvious that Pokemon will sell a lot more 3DSes.

 

[Laguna]

Well for a start none of the games release this week indicate people bought Vitas just for those. The install base is big enough that any of those games might have sold that much to its current user base.

It could simply be the price drop, new colours, SS and PSO2 are still the things selling the Vitas. We dont know any of this as facts.

Also it isn't even what you said. Its how you said it. Saying like a know it all and then then acting like people are celabrating Vita sales when almost everyone just said "hay thats kinda suprising. Good to hear".

It just had a pretty insulting tone to it. It wasn't the fact you said you we not surprised in the numbers staying the same.

Have you also forgotten the people that thought it would have dropped back down by now as well? There are obvious reasons why people are surprised that the Vita numbers held.

If you remember my post I also took account of continued sales of recently released software by quoting the still charting Soul Sacrifice, the new price-point doesn´t hurt either but that´s even more obvious. And looking at the releases (that were far stronger than the week before) one of them (again) One Piece that was considered to be one of the bigger PSV releases in many MediaCreate threads, and the other games are known for their dedicated fanbases. Also I considered the simple fact that PSV sold 36k units last week. Considering all mentioned things (combined) a significant decline compared to last week was just unlikely in my opinion. Obviously I actually was too reasonable and should have partied instead...


One Piece: Pirate Warriors 2 60.315 / NEW
Atelier Meruru Plus: The Alchemist of Arland 3 25.095 / NEW
Pro Baseball Spirits 2013 23.621 / NEW [/b]
Dead or Alive 5+ 13.291 / NEW [/b]
--------------------------------------------
Soul Sacrifice 15.488 / 137.006

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

If you remember my post I also took account of continued sales of recently released software by quoting the still charting Soul Sacrifice, the new price-point doesn´t hurt either but that´s even more obvious. And looking at the releases one of them (again) One Piece that was considered to be one of the bigger PSV releases in many MediaCreate threads, and the other games are known for their dedicated fanbases. Also I considered the simple fact that PSV sold 36k units last week. Considering all mentioned things a significant decline compared to last week was just unlikely in my opinion. Obviously I actually was too reasonable and should have partied instead...


One Piece: Pirate Warriors 2 60.315 / NEW
Atelier Meruru Plus: The Alchemist of Arland 3 25.095 / NEW
Pro Baseball Spirits 2013 23.621 / NEW [/b]
Dead or Alive 5+ 13.291 / NEW [/b]
--------------------------------------------
Soul Sacrifice 15.488 / 137.006

I genuinly get the feeling you don't read posts properly. What are you trying to point out and what do you think I said to you?

remember when I said
"It wasn't the fact you said you we not surprised in the numbers staying the same."

I am saying its not that you wern't surprised that rubbed people the wrong way. Its the way you said it and the way YOU reacted to other peoples posts.

I was not saying why you should be surprised. I was pointing out why other people might.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

You can't use only raw sales numbers to define system selling potential. NSMB and Mario Kart games are evergreen titles that benefit from a healthy ecosystem which is why they continually sell in the long run, but Pokemon is a lot more of a "blockbuster" title out the gates so the situations aren't directly comparable. The DSLite didn't hit peak sales in the US until after Diamond/Pearl were released for example. I'm not saying they don't sell systems, of course they do, but the Pokemon userbase is a lot more dedicated. Anyway, that's the question mark concerning the west and we'll see in due time. However, in Japan, it's obvious that Pokemon will sell a lot more 3DSes.

I can and i will. The matter of the fact is Mario titles did sustain the 3DS, neither did the new revision. The 3DS have declined YOY in the US and the UK and most likely the rest of Europe, except France, since they are 2 million 3DS below their expectations. Some people say release software the system sales will skyrocket, but the matter of the fact is that we have seen decline of hardware regardless (NSMB2), and a new revision. Handheld market has shrunk significantly in the west, and anyone thinking otherwise is deluding themselves. The 3DS not even once met Nintendo´s expectations since release, not after a price cut, and not after the many Mario titles they have released so far and that alone shows that the western market is in constant decline.

 

[Tizoc]

How many units, in Japan, did the PS3 and PSP sell during their first year?

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

If you remember my post I also took account of continued sales of recently released software by quoting the still charting Soul Sacrifice, the new price-point doesn´t hurt either but that´s even more obvious. And looking at the releases one of them (again) One Piece that was considered to be one of the bigger PSV releases in many MediaCreate threads, and the other games are known for their dedicated fanbases. Also I considered the simple fact that PSV sold 36k units last week. Considering all mentioned things (combined) a significant decline compared to last week was just unlikely in my opinion. Obviously I actually was too reasonable and should have partied instead...


One Piece: Pirate Warriors 2 60.315 / NEW
Atelier Meruru Plus: The Alchemist of Arland 3 25.095 / NEW
Pro Baseball Spirits 2013 23.621 / NEW [/b]
Dead or Alive 5+ 13.291 / NEW [/b]
--------------------------------------------
Soul Sacrifice 15.488 / 137.006

People questioned you because you never made a prediction in the first place. Its like me going to next weeks thread saying things turn out exactly like I expected them to be after the numbers are out. You made no proof that you were expecting these numbers and I doubt many people believe you.

If you want to avoid this just make a prediction and then you can boast all you want and say how you are surprised everyone else is surprised etc.

Also that last sentence is just flambait. Theres no party going on here. Look at last weeks thread. Many people expected PSV to decrease but it did not it actually increased. Posters saying they were surprised by this and how the Vita is holding well in no way represents us partying about these Vita numbers. This goes back to my previous post in that you cannot handle any positive news about Sony. The way you try to spin such news into a negative or downplay it is bound to get reactions too.

Lastly you should learn how to use facts. Just using facts in your argument does not make your argument a fact. Your facts should support your argument and lead to a reasonable deduction however that is not the case with your posts.

 

[Laguna]

That´s just a recent excuse to justify the silly attempt of mocking and even namecalling another member who simply doesn´t share your point of view. I explained and backed up my comments reasonably and with factual data, that´s more than enough to expect an answer on the topic at hand instead of childish picture responses and the like.

 

[Kenka]

S-E was founded on Apr, 1st that's why it is a joke !

mpl90, do you intend to make a thread celebrating the 10 years of S-E ?

 

[redcrayon]

Laguna, what are your predictions for next week then?

 

[schuelma]

Game & Wario isn't going to sell well (certainly not when looking at the charts at Amazon..it never entered the top 20..barely dented the top 40). Probably looking at under 20k...if that.

Yeah it failed to chart on Comgnet as well. Obviously this is a more casual title and so online indicators are not that reliable, but I would be surprised if its above 30k.

 

[Magicpaint]

I can and i will. The matter of the fact is Mario titles did sustain the 3DS, neither did the new revision. The 3DS have declined YOY in the US and the UK and most likely the rest of Europe, except France, since they are 2 million 3DS below their expectations. Some people say release software the system sales will skyrocket, but the matter of the fact is that we have seen decline of hardware regardless (NSMB2), and a new revision. Handheld market has shrunk significantly in the west, and anyone thinking otherwise is deluding themselves. The 3DS not even once met Nintendo´s expectations since release, not after a price cut, and not after the many Mario titles they have released so far and that alone shows that the western market is in constant decline.

You can sure, but that's foolhardy as there are titles that sell in volumes due to an already existing or growing userbase and then there are some that drive hardware sales all by themselves. Anyway all this west talk is off topic and not suitable to the 3DS here in Japan where it's doing great

 

[Mpl90]

Are we...are we seriously downplaying the strength of a main Pokémon? In the West too? Especially since it's the first entry with 3D graphics and worldwide launch, so what can be called an "event", and then something that attracts lots of people?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

You can sure, but that's foolhardy as there are titles that sell in volumes due to an already existing or growing userbase and then there are some that drive hardware sales all by themselves. Anyway all this west talk is off topic and not suitable to the 3DS here in Japan where it's doing great

You cannot ignore all the facts that i presented.

 

[test_account]

Speaking about Comgnet, what did One Piece Musou 2 PS3 and Miku F PS3 end up with in Comgnet points?

If you remember my post I also took account of continued sales of recently released software by quoting the still charting Soul Sacrifice, the new price-point doesn´t hurt either but that´s even more obvious. And looking at the releases (that were far stronger than the week before) one of them (again) One Piece that was considered to be one of the bigger PSV releases in many MediaCreate threads, and the other games are known for their dedicated fanbases. Also I considered the simple fact that PSV sold 36k units last week. Considering all mentioned things (combined) a significant decline compared to last week was just unlikely in my opinion. Obviously I actually was too reasonable and should have partied instead...


One Piece: Pirate Warriors 2 60.315 / NEW
Atelier Meruru Plus: The Alchemist of Arland 3 25.095 / NEW
Pro Baseball Spirits 2013 23.621 / NEW [/b]
Dead or Alive 5+ 13.291 / NEW [/b]
--------------------------------------------
Soul Sacrifice 15.488 / 137.006

Out of curiousity, can you say why you didnt present that arguement last week when people were doubting that the Vita would increase in sales? Dont you think that would have more of an "impact" instead of presenting this arguement after we have seen the sales numbers?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

You cannot ignore all the facts that i presented.

Fun fact, pretty much every Nintendo franchise on 3DS is performing better than they did on DS in the west. Only exceptions being Brain-Age, Nintendogs and NSMB.

Citing Mario Kart 7 as an example of a game "not sustaining" 3DS seems odd when it's nearly doubling the sales of it's DS predecessor in the US launch aligned. 3DS is definitely behind DS, but it's not due to the core oriented Nintendo brands. Those are actually doing even better now.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

That´s just a recent excuse to justify the silly attempt of mocking and even namecalling another member who simply doesn´t share your point of view. I explained and backed up my comments reasonably and with factual data, that´s more than enough to expect an answer on the topic at hand instead of childish picture responses and the like.

Are you replying to me?

If so please read my previous post or at the very least post your predictions for next week before the numbers appear.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Fun fact, pretty much every Nintendo franchise on 3DS is performing better than they did on DS in the west. Only exceptions being Brain-Age, Nintendogs and NSMB.

Not just that but Animal Crossing New Leaf is significantly outperforming AC:WW.

 

[Scum]

4 weeks!

Bloody hell. You're right.

great, now people are rushing Bayonetta 2 *smh*

You wot, mate? I'm asking for the first one to be available on the eShop, well before the second one arrives.

 

[Yoshi]

Why is everyone jumping on Skyzard for that post? All he's saying is that the difference isn't as large as one might expect, given the disparity in install bases. Disagree by all means but it doesn't stand out as particularly 'mockable'. Certainly not in the same league as the post that inspired it, anyway.

Smash Bros Melee sold 7 million for GameCube (Nintendo said that according to Wiki), GameCube sold about 22 million units. PlayStation 2 sold 150 million units, with 17.33 million copies of its best selling game GTA:SA being sold. Further, 7*150/22=47.7, so every GameCube owner was worth 2.76 PS2-owners. Am I doing it right?

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Half the people in this thread are bloody crazy. Even usually normal people are jumping out the window.

 

[Basch]

Nice bump for Vita and WiiU. Still rooting for you guys. As always, the 3DS does amazing numbers. Still holding out for Bravely Default, Square. Get on it!

 

[BronsonLee]

Down the rabbit hole we go!

Pokemon is a big goddamn deal. This cannot be stated enough. It will do gangbusters, especially considering it's a worldwide launch.

Laguna is no different from many others in GAF.

Makes predictions. They're usually wrong, but rarely they'll be right (SS Vita week, for example).

Says something incendiary. Whether or not this is on purpose doesn't matter. I personally don't believe it's to incite anything.

Points to sales data to prove the point being made. Problem with this is its usually skewing data to serve the point made.

Gets mad/indignant when people call him out on it. Us vs them, fanboys, just insulting, etc etc.

The last bit is really the only thing dude does wrong, in my opinion. Could handle it better. And it usually results in a thread takeover.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

And especially because people are tired of Aonuma Zelda games. He's the Motomu Toriyama of The Legend of Zelda franchise.

Skyward Sword is a title with little appeal, with a huge development cycle that flopped worldwide, when was the last time a Zelda game hit the bargain bin that fast?

Worldwide it outsold MM, TWW, OoA, OoS, TMC, FSA, PH and ST. It is right about in the middle in terms of what zeldas outsold it and what Zelda titles it outsold. It flopped in Japan and was pretty frontloaded WW. A lot of that had to do with the reasons the posters you responded to listed.

 

[Laguna]

Laguna, what are your predictions for next week then?

@Pyscho_Mantis

Please explain what next weeks sales have to do with this weeks data, releases and circumstances I was arguing about? I don´t see any logical connection.

@test-account
For a simple reason. I didn´t want to. It´s not like my spot on prediction for the week Soul Sacrifice released for both PSV hardware and Soul Sacrifice software numbers was any hindrance for similar personal attacks from users like SmokeyDave,

Also I´m positive that this doesn´t in any way lessen the the actual factuality of my argumentation.

 

[SmokyDave]

Smash Bros Melee sold 7 million for GameCube (Nintendo said that according to Wiki), GameCube sold about 22 million units. PlayStation 2 sold 150 million units, with 17.33 million copies of its best selling game GTA:SA being sold. Further, 7*150/22=47.7, so every GameCube owner was worth 2.76 PS2-owners. Am I doing it right?

Are you trying to point out that SSBM had a higher attach rate than SA in response to someone that compared SSBM & GTA? If so, that's probably the best way to go about it. Your conclusion is a bit whacky though.

SmokeyDave

There is no 'e' in Smoky.

 

[schuelma]

Goodbye sweet prince. Tear.

 

[Nekki]

Boom, like that.

When are first day reports coming out?? I'm impatient! For something that seemingly won't help the system much, yeah.

 

[schuelma]

Boom, like that.

When are first day reports coming out?? I'm impatient! For something that seemingly won't help the system much, yeah.

I'm reasonably confident DQX will sell more than G&W.

 

[wrowa]

And especially because people are tired of Aonuma Zelda games.

As if people would even know who that guy is.

There are many potential reasons why Skyward Sword underperformed, but none of them are related to Aounuma being in charge. I guess you could try to attribute Zelda's sameness to him, but it's not like he could have changed the formula completely even if he wanted to. Nintendo is too conservative a company to allow that. They need a big backlash before they consider to change something fundamentally.

Not that I would take issue with new blood taking over. Zelda has changed from one of the pinnacle's of game design everyone in the industry took inspiration from to a series that got lost in its own past. It's a litte sad really. (And I am saying that as someone who loved Skyward.)