lunchwithyuzo
Banned
It might not of been moved to 3DS 10 months back. The way things are looking right now, if it's not PSP, 3DS or PSP/3DS then Namco's made a huge mistake.
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Media Create Sales: Week 23, 2012 (Jun 04 - Jun 10)
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
Of course it's going to be a massive drop in terms of unit numbers. SE has already gone through this with FFXI. If they wanted DQX to sell in the typical 3-4M range, then they would have gone with a traditional game. They decided to try for a path with much smaller upfront sales, but if all goes well, then they will still be making good money from the game several years from now. That's the plan anyway.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
FFXI did about 225k total (all versions) on PS2+360. Where are you getting 700k? PC sales?
It seems more and more likely that something changed with GE2. I said at the start of the year that the PSP would be pretty much done by the end of summer, and that looks to be exactly how it has played out. If Namco doesn't get GE2 out by the end of September, then the only other option is to try for a XMas release, but any PSP software at XMas would just be badly overlooked by all the other holiday releases on other systems.
So it looks more and more likely that Namco has gone in another direction with the game at this point (with the PSP still getting a multiplat release still being quite possible).
electroplankton
Banned
I think last time it was at 135k.
gundamkyoukai
Member
FFXI did really well for SE but it also has a overseas fan base which is something DQ does not really have.
I wonder how that going to play into things .
I wonder how that going to play into things .
thestopsign
Member
Vita to have its first 100k+ opening this week.
electroplankton
Banned
Wow, that's really low for Lollipop.
Oh wow, a 100k+ opening would be very, very impressive. Persona 4 is shaping up to be one helluva brand.
So when will we get Persona 5?
Someone needs to make a thread, lol.
test_account
XP-39C²
Good news about Persona 4. It shows that software can sell on other handheld platforms as well. Hopefully the market will be able to sustain both the 3DS and the Vita (i never really doubted this in the long run, but this could be the proof that developers need).
And Atlus had the balls to sell the game for 7329Y.
Too bad that the game has no chance at having any kind of legs with this small userbase (+ being an RPG).
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You'll jinx it and they'll end up selling 99,999
djplaeskool
Member
This was the amazing part to me.
Really big handheld titles sometimes hold a console title-sized price point, and that doesn't really slow things down.
For instance, importing FF Type-0 cost me about $100. Not that I regret that at all, game was my GOTY last year, but I suppose that goes to show how little standardization there is for Japanese MSRPs.
Also considering importing Miku F. Play-Asia wants $83...and I'll probably go for it still.
I'm actually curious as to how it does. I would guess mid-20's for a solid week for them.
I'm actually debating creating a JP PSN account just to buy it.
considering that the latest main episode on ds sold 4.2 millions (if I remember well) I think that Wii + Wii U version should hit the 2 million mark to be considered positive.
electroplankton
Banned
A game doesn't prove anything but the strength of a brand as Persona.
BassForever
Member
No developer is going to see the sales of Persona 4 GA and just start up a bunch of Vita projects, install base is still too small especially compared to it's direct competition the 3DS. Most developers would rather make PS3/360 titles they can simply port to Vita instead of making original Vita titles.
Just like resident evil revelations selling 200k on 3ds only proves the strength of the brand as RE, like Mario doing a million proves the strength of a brand as Mario or as Monster hunter doing a million proves the strength of the brand as MH.
Honestly dude you can make the same argument for everything. I've seen you in a coupled of threads relating Nintendo and you're always very quick to dismiss any sort of a success of a competitor and praise any small success of nintendo to heavens and it's getting tiring to be honest.
Probably talking about PC+console sales worldwide. Most likely some number they shared at one of the yearly Vanafests?
Only number I've seen before is the "500K subscribers" that was reached spring 2004 (several months after NA release, right around when Dynamis was first introduced). Numbers most likely declined after that, with NAs giving up and JPs getting sick of being forced into tabbed conversation due to the genius development team not separating servers by language (not to mention the myriad of other issues that came up as a result of having groups that reside in different time zones in one server).
Either you're joking or you've ignored all previous discussion of MMO profitability (esp. ff11's) that's been handled in this thread because you want to label DQX a failure.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Probably counting expansion sales.
btw, if you want more measurable numbers of the lucrativeness of FF11, here's Squeenix's fiscal reports for FY 2005-2008 (Apr-Mar for Japan):
http://www.square-enix.com/jpn/pdf/financial_20090519_01.pdf (pg35)
http://www.square-enix.com/jpn/pdf/financial_20080523_01.pdf (pg43)
http://www.square-enix.com/jpn/pdf/financial_20070523_01.pdf (pg42)
http://www.square-enix.com/jpn/pdf/financial_20060524_01.pdf (pg31)
up to 2009 they separated online gaming as オンラインゲーム事業 so we can tell exactly how much it contributed to operating profits for SE. Hell, make life easier, this site gives us a pretty good breakdown of operating profit from online games 2003~2009:
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/longlow/20090607/p1#20090607fn1
Online gaming division results:
(in million yen)
It's probably safe to assume 90% or more of this is from FF11 alone -- the next graph from the FY sales on that website linked above is a snippet from one of Square's briefs, showing gross sales of FF11 (light blue) vs everything else.
The PDFs show more interesting info, btw. You can contrast profitability with the rather inconsistent console gaming sector (ゲーム事業 (operating profit is 営業利益, gross sales is 売上高, operating costs 営業費用. You can see that the console gaming division has anywhere from 3-4x the sales, but the profitability is highly inconsistent. FY 2008 standard gaming profits were at 4,162m yen, barely higher than online gaming profits. FY 2005-2008 it looks like online gaming accounted for 20~30% of their total operating profits each year.
This is why they tried to make FF14 online, this is why they're trying to resusciate FF14, and this is why they're making DQX online.
http://www.square-enix.com/jpn/pdf/financial_20090519_01.pdf (pg35)
http://www.square-enix.com/jpn/pdf/financial_20080523_01.pdf (pg43)
http://www.square-enix.com/jpn/pdf/financial_20070523_01.pdf (pg42)
http://www.square-enix.com/jpn/pdf/financial_20060524_01.pdf (pg31)
up to 2009 they separated online gaming as オンラインゲーム事業 so we can tell exactly how much it contributed to operating profits for SE. Hell, make life easier, this site gives us a pretty good breakdown of operating profit from online games 2003~2009:
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/longlow/20090607/p1#20090607fn1
Online gaming division results:
Code:
Year Gross Sales Operating profit Profit/Sales
2003 8,924 2,348 26.3%
2004 13,853 4,986 35.9%
2005 15,720 5,907 37.5%
2006 13,660 6,767 49.5%
2007 12,099 5,880 48.5%
2008 10,629 3,087 29.0%(in million yen)
It's probably safe to assume 90% or more of this is from FF11 alone -- the next graph from the FY sales on that website linked above is a snippet from one of Square's briefs, showing gross sales of FF11 (light blue) vs everything else.
The PDFs show more interesting info, btw. You can contrast profitability with the rather inconsistent console gaming sector (ゲーム事業
(operating profit is 営業利益, gross sales is 売上高, operating costs 営業費用. You can see that the console gaming division has anywhere from 3-4x the sales, but the profitability is highly inconsistent. FY 2008 standard gaming profits were at 4,162m yen, barely higher than online gaming profits. FY 2005-2008 it looks like online gaming accounted for 20~30% of their total operating profits each year.This is why they tried to make FF14 online, this is why they're trying to resusciate FF14, and this is why they're making DQX online.
test_account
XP-39C²
As Mario007 mentioned above here, this goes for all strong brands on every system though. It would be similar that people say "3rd party sells great on 3DS" and points to examples like Monster Hunter Tri G and Dragon Quest games. Would you then argue that this doesnt prove that 3rd parties can sell good on 3DS because MH and DQ are strong brands?
Sure, i didnt said that, but it shows that it is possible to sell software on the Vita. It is not just P4G, but the recent Gundam game also didnt flop, and Ciel No Surge was also pretty succesful. I think that this will have something to say. It means that taking chances on a platform could be more acceptable when you see that people buy software there. It doesnt mean that every developer will throw big budgets on exclusve Vita games, but it could lead to more support one way or the other.
But you're just jumping the gun. You're referencing several niche games that don't depend on large userbases to sell. Persona is also probably at the height of its popularity right now and Atlus is capitalizing on a relatively cheap port. This is like saying the visual novels, shumps and the several JRPGs that sold some copies early on the 360 should have alerted publishers of this gold mine and to push more titles there. It is good news for Persona but too early to judge the impact of console support with a single successful port.
test_account
XP-39C²
Actually, you're the one jumping the gun here on what i said
The first thing i said was "hopefully" and "could be". Then i said "possible" and "i think". I didnt said that anything was certain. It can go both ways of course, all i have is an optimistic view on the outcome. I'm not going to blame you much for thinking i said otherwise, but i just wanted to point out that having an optimistic view is not the same thing as saying anything is for certain.I also said "support in one way or the other". With this i ment not necessarily Dragon Quest XI and similar stuff, i ment just getting more support, even smaller titles. So i'll hold to what i said earlier, good news looking at P4G sales, hopefully this will mean more support for the Vita
EDIT: By the way, regarding Xbox 360 and game support. It might be hard to believe, but there excist around 400 Xbox 360 titles in Japan. In comparison, the PS3 is around 500. Many of the games are western games, but still, the Xbox 360 library in Japan does actually have a pretty impressive size concidering the very low hardware sales, in my opinion.
We're also jumping the gun in terms of sales because we don't even have its first week numbers yet.
Doing slightly over 100k first week would be good, but it could also be incredibly front-loaded and that wouldn't be good at all.
Also I think the whole "Holy shit these global hardware sales are fucking terrible!" thing is going to heavily outweigh anything positive that might come out of a Persona game doing well in Japan.
Doing slightly over 100k first week would be good, but it could also be incredibly front-loaded and that wouldn't be good at all.
Also I think the whole "Holy shit these global hardware sales are fucking terrible!" thing is going to heavily outweigh anything positive that might come out of a Persona game doing well in Japan.
test_account
XP-39C²
Generally speaking, does it matter if something is frontloaded? I.e, if MHP3 had sold 4.5 million copies in the first month, then disappeared from the chart, why is this anything different that it takes 1 year to reach 4.5 million copies? I actually think that being frontloaded regarding software sales is the best thing. Then the publishers/stores get the money much quicker.
It's not good if they want it to sell close to what Persona 3 Portable did, which was over 100k in its first week and ending with a LTD over 200k. That game actually had decent legs for an RPG.
'First week' was one day for Persona 3
test_account
XP-39C²
In that way, i understand. I just ment that if the LTD end up being very good, i dont think being frontloaded is anything bad.
That'd explain its better than usual second week.
Wow thats kinda massive for a Vita title, any chance it can beat 3DS this week? exciting times.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I think the difference here is scope. When looking at successful 3rd party sales 3DS covers a lot of ground, from mega sellers like Monster Hunter or Dragon Quest, to mid or low tier brands like Resident Evil or Harvest Moon, to even new franchise debuts like Senran Kagura. There's diversity and breadth in the examples of 3rd party games that do really well on 3DS.
With Vita, all you really have is (maybe) Persona. That's why it's easier for some to discount that to franchise rather than platform stength.
Dengeki Sales, Jun 04 - 10, 2012 (Week 23)
01. (01) [3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Terry's Wonderland 3D (Square Enix) - 104,857 / 610,651 (-79%)
02. (__) [PS3] Tokyo Jungle (SCE) - 104,689 / 104,689 [ST: ~85% => 123,000]
03. (__) [PSV] Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Battle Destiny (Bandai Namco) - 42,444 / 42,444 [ST: ~70% => 61,000]
04. (02) [PS3] Dragon's Dogma (Capcom) - 34,865 / 403,982 (-55%)
05. (03) [3DS] Mario Tennis Open (Nintendo) - 24,500 / 170,689 (-42%)
06. (04) [WII] Mario Party 9 (Nintendo) - 19,600 / 433,852 (-9%)
07. (07) [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo) - 8,644 / 1,609,455 (-8%)
08. (__) [PSP] Storm Lover Kai!! (D3 Publisher) - 7,173 / 7,173
09. (09) [3DS] Monster Hunter Tri G (Capcom) - 7,130 / 1,490,292 (-10%)
10. (12) [3DS] Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo) - 6,156 / 1,726,282 (-12%)
11. (10) [3DS] Fire Emblem: Awakening (Nintendo) - 5,583 / 409,155 (-25%)
12. (05) [3DS] Guild01 (Level 5) - 5,294 / 20,633 (-65%)
13. (06) [PS3] Jissen PachiSlot Hisshouhou! Fist of the North Star F: Seikimatsu Kyuuseishu Densetsu (SEGA) - 4,706 / 18,459 (-66%)
14. (17) [3DS] Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (Nintendo) - 3,984 / 194,969 (-7%)
15. (16) [3DS] Kid Icarus: Uprising (Nintendo) - 3,532 / 302,096 (-23%)
16. (38) [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo) - 3,509 / ?
17. (23) [WII] Wii Party (Nintendo) - 3,239 / ?
18. (20) [PSP] Pro Baseball Spirits 2012 (Konami) - 2,667 / ? (-13%)
19. (22) [PSP] Monster Hunter Freedom 3 [PSP the Best] (Capcom) - 2,550 / ?
20. (24) [3DS] Harvest Moon: The Land of Origin (Marvelous AQL) - 2,519 / ?
*ST: Sell-through => estimated copies shipped.
Other software (first week / LTD):
2011-02-26 [3DS] Nintendogs + Cats: Golden Retriever / Toy Poodle / French Bulldog & New Friends (Nintendo) - 68,000 / 630,000
http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/497/497047/
http://megalodon.jp/2012-0615-2204-48/news.dengeki.com/soft/ranking/ranking.html
Dengeki Sales: Week 22, 2012 (May 28 - Jun 03)
Previous Dengeki Posts (Thanks Cap. Smoker!)
2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012
01. (01) [3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Terry's Wonderland 3D (Square Enix) - 104,857 / 610,651 (-79%)
02. (__) [PS3] Tokyo Jungle (SCE) - 104,689 / 104,689 [ST: ~85% => 123,000]
03. (__) [PSV] Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Battle Destiny (Bandai Namco) - 42,444 / 42,444 [ST: ~70% => 61,000]
04. (02) [PS3] Dragon's Dogma (Capcom) - 34,865 / 403,982 (-55%)
05. (03) [3DS] Mario Tennis Open (Nintendo) - 24,500 / 170,689 (-42%)
06. (04) [WII] Mario Party 9 (Nintendo) - 19,600 / 433,852 (-9%)
07. (07) [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo) - 8,644 / 1,609,455 (-8%)
08. (__) [PSP] Storm Lover Kai!! (D3 Publisher) - 7,173 / 7,173
09. (09) [3DS] Monster Hunter Tri G (Capcom) - 7,130 / 1,490,292 (-10%)
10. (12) [3DS] Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo) - 6,156 / 1,726,282 (-12%)
11. (10) [3DS] Fire Emblem: Awakening (Nintendo) - 5,583 / 409,155 (-25%)
12. (05) [3DS] Guild01 (Level 5) - 5,294 / 20,633 (-65%)
13. (06) [PS3] Jissen PachiSlot Hisshouhou! Fist of the North Star F: Seikimatsu Kyuuseishu Densetsu (SEGA) - 4,706 / 18,459 (-66%)
14. (17) [3DS] Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (Nintendo) - 3,984 / 194,969 (-7%)
15. (16) [3DS] Kid Icarus: Uprising (Nintendo) - 3,532 / 302,096 (-23%)
16. (38) [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo) - 3,509 / ?
17. (23) [WII] Wii Party (Nintendo) - 3,239 / ?
18. (20) [PSP] Pro Baseball Spirits 2012 (Konami) - 2,667 / ? (-13%)
19. (22) [PSP] Monster Hunter Freedom 3 [PSP the Best] (Capcom) - 2,550 / ?
20. (24) [3DS] Harvest Moon: The Land of Origin (Marvelous AQL) - 2,519 / ?
*ST: Sell-through => estimated copies shipped.
Other software (first week / LTD):
2011-02-26 [3DS] Nintendogs + Cats: Golden Retriever / Toy Poodle / French Bulldog & New Friends (Nintendo) - 68,000 / 630,000
http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/497/497047/
http://megalodon.jp/2012-0615-2204-48/news.dengeki.com/soft/ranking/ranking.html
Dengeki Sales: Week 22, 2012 (May 28 - Jun 03)
Previous Dengeki Posts (Thanks Cap. Smoker!)
2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012
Hero of Legend
Member
Pretty sure GE2 was announced before MH3G and MH4 were, so maybe those (plus MH3G huge sales) have caused a potential rebuilt from the ground up 3DS release ala MH3?
Still, look at the game on PSP:
Cropped it myself to the 3DS resolution.
Fucking gorgeous, some of the top in PSP graphics I definitely say, they could get away with a straight port.
Only improvements I can really suggest are dynamic shadows and self-shadowing ala MH3G. That would do wonders.
I doubt it will beat the 3DS. Reach 20k, sure. I doubt Vita will sell 60k plus though.
electroplankton
Banned
You have to consider how different the situations are. PSVita is struggling; its ecosystem is not healthy at all, hardware is selling really bad and games sell accordingly. We all knew Persona 4 would have sold nicely, and Atlus knew as well. But software houses won't see this unique performance as something upon which build a line-up given the abysmal hardware sales and the generally low software sales.
3DS is quite healthy, and not only games like Mario and Monster Hunter sell well. Harvest Moon, Hatsune Miku, Code of Princess, Rhythm Thief, Fire Emblem... We're seeing a lot of game succeeding, bringing users that on DS did not exist and afferming IPs.
BishopLamont
Banned
Its only 14k difference with MC, but yes it does make the games 2nd shipment a bit more interesting.
Pretty sure GE2 was announced before MH3G and MH4 were, so maybe those (plus MH3G huge sales) have caused a potential rebuilt from the ground up 3DS release ala MH3?
Still, look at the game on PSP:
Cropped it myself to the 3DS resolution.
Fucking gorgeous, some of the top in PSP graphics I definitely say, they could get away with a straight port.
Only improvements I can really suggest are dynamic shadows and self-shadowing ala MH3G. That would do wonders.
Could GO2 be released for "everything" as Time Travelers or Little Battlers (PSP, Vita and 3DS), maybe in order to port it also in the west, where up to now 3DS seems the only viable platform up to now?
Exterminieren
Banned
AdventureRacing
Member
Those are very good sales for persona and for the vita but i'm not sure a game that will probably struggle to reach much more than 200K ltd will be that big of a sign for 3rd parties.
test_account
XP-39C²
It depends on what types of games we're thinking about. Games that are expected to sell 300k+? Most likely no influence. Games that are expected to sell 30k+? Could make a difference i think. But only time will tell.