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[lunchwithyuzo]

No, that's really not the situation at all. The financial (and control) incentives of the platform were plenty on their own; Sony really wasn't engaged in any sort of direct payment for exclusives at the time.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. I mean maybe in the earliest days, but I'd say the sweetheart western publishing deal (plus huge budget FFVII ad campaign) they handed Square qualifies as a money hat in the modern sense. It's basically the same thing Nintendo's been doing for Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest. Might not literally be a cash transaction, but it's still a direct "payment" that goes well beyond the inherent logistics of the 3rd party license agreement.

Sony also paid out for the Tomb Raider exclusive for several years iirc (which deep sixed TR2 Saturn and kept the franchise off N64), I'm sure there's likely other early examples.

 

[Opiate]

I don't think this is entirely accurate. I mean maybe in the earliest days, but I'd say the sweetheart western publishing deal (plus huge budget FFVII ad campaign) they handed Square qualifies as a money hat in the modern sense. It's basically the same thing Nintendo's been doing for Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest. Might not literally be a cash transaction, but it's still a direct "payment" that goes well beyond the inherent logistics of the 3rd party license agreement.

Sony also paid out for the Tomb Raider exclusive for several years iirc (which deep sixed TR2 Saturn and kept the franchise off N64), I'm sure there's likely other early examples.

They also published Tekken. I think literal "moneyhats" as we casually think of them -- a direct cash transaction from one company to the other -- is actually fairly uncommon. Most "moneyhats" are much less direct, as you suggest; publishing deals are an example, waving licensing fees is another very common approach, or providing advertising. All of these things amount, indirectly, to money saved or earned for the third party.

It isn't literally Nintendo or Microsoft going to a company and saying "Here's a million dollars," but if Microsoft or Nintendo spend one million dollars advertising your game, then this amounts to the same thing. Instead of being paid a million dollars, you save a million dollars on advertising.

 

[manueldelalas]

I'm sorry but that's just a ridiculous prediction.

Based on what?

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

I predict 200k lifetime sales in Japan, but I really don't have any idea.

It will have sold more than 200k by Jan 29.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

They also published Tekken.

Only in Europe iirc, and SCEE published lots of Namco games. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some extra incentives between Sony and Namco though, it would explain why Namco quietly killed all their early announced Saturn ports (Starblade, Cybersled, Ridge Racer).

I think literal "moneyhats" as we casually think of them -- a direct cash transaction from one company to the other -- is actually fairly uncommon. Most "moneyhats" are much less direct, as you suggest; publishing deals are an example, waving licensing fees is another very common approach, or providing advertising. All of these things amount, indirectly, to money saved or earned for the third party.

It isn't literally Nintendo or Microsoft going to a company and saying "Here's a million dollars," but if Microsoft or Nintendo spend one million dollars advertising your game, then this amounts to the same thing. Instead of being paid a million dollars, you save a million dollars on advertising.

Yes, I totally agree with this. I guess it really comes down to how you define "money hat", but either way I think it's clear that Sony was going beyond simply the inherent attractive license structure with PS1 to secure big name content and exclusives.

 

[Man God]

SCEJ also had this magic mix of marketing and the right game at the right time effect on the PSX. It was the last time that branch had multiple new million selling IPs.

 

[Alrus]

Based on what?

Based on the fact that RE: The Mercenaries 3D, a spin-off of a mode that was offered for free in most RE game in the past, realeased during the 3DS worst days, managed to sell nearly 120k (it probably did a bit more off the charts). This game is much more complete, better advertised, and has better production value, there's no way it'll do 200k lifetime.

 

[manueldelalas]

Based on the fact that RE: The Mercenaries 3D, a spin-off of a mode that was offered for free in most RE game in the past, realeased during the 3DS worst days, managed to sell nearly 120k (it probably did a bit more off the charts). This game is much more complete, better advertised, and has better production value, there's no way it'll do 200k lifetime.

Well, that's my prediction, there are other factors, this is the second RE game on the platform after a shitty first title that may have left a bad taste on japanese mouths, there is A LOT more competition in software, it's released in January, and it's a friggin horror game on a handheld, and we all know both things don't go well together. Also the game should be very frontloaded and there should be used copies day two on stores, etc etc.

See, arguments for both sides.

 

[Mpl90]

RE: Revelations performance depends also on how much the console sells in its debut week.
If the console sells, let's say, 50k, it can do something like 180-200k as debut. But, if it sells 100k, for example, i can see 300k of first week as possible. And then, however, the game will have also legs, such as most of the RE games on Nintendo hardware, and since it's been released early in the lifespan of a very hot console.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

Based on the fact that RE: The Mercenaries 3D, a spin-off of a mode that was offered for free in most RE game in the past, realeased during the 3DS worst days, managed to sell nearly 120k (it probably did a bit more off the charts). This game is much more complete, better advertised, and has better production value, there's no way it'll do 200k lifetime.

The recent mouth-watering demo available to 100% of the 3DS user-base might help too.

 

[Father_Brain]

Well, that's my prediction, there are other factors, this is the second RE game on the platform after a shitty first title that may have left a bad taste on japanese mouths, there is A LOT more competition in software, it's released in January, and it's a friggin horror game on a handheld, and we all know both things don't go well together. Also the game should be very frontloaded and there should be used copies day two on stores, etc etc.

See, arguments for both sides.

Mercenaries wasn't shitty - it just had that nasty save issue and was grossly overpriced for the content.

 

[Alrus]

Well, that's my prediction, there are other factors, this is the second RE game on the platform after a shitty first title that may have left a bad taste on japanese mouths, there is A LOT more competition in software, it's released in January, and it's a friggin horror game on a handheld, and we all know both things don't go well together. Also the game should be very frontloaded and there should be used copies day two on stores, etc etc.

See, arguments for both sides.

The game has a great demo, I don't know where you get the horror doesn't work on handheld part and there's used copies day two with every single game ever released. It's not even the first full on horror game coming for the 3DS (that Fatal Frame spin-off will be). Also Mercenaries wasn't badly received at all (despite being a cheap cash-in).

The competition will be greatly toned down too, it's the only big game coming for the 3DS in january.

The RE game are decently leggy for what they are too.

Edit: You're pretty much saying the game will be a massive massive bomb, again, doing worse than Zero on the gamecube (and its low install base) and worse than UC which was a totally different kind of game. I just can't see how it'll do that bad seeing the circumstance of its release.

 

[jman2050]

The recent mouth-watering demo available to 100% of the 3DS user-base might help too.

Wait there's a demo outside Japan?

EDIT - Oh, you're referring to 100% of the Japanese userbase I think?

 

[UncleSporky]

Wait there's a demo outside Japan?

Wait, they're predicting sales outside of Japan?

 

[manueldelalas]

The game has a great demo, I don't know where you get the horror doesn't work on handheld part and there's used copies day two with every single game ever released. It's not even the first full on horror game coming for the 3DS (that Fatal Frame spin-off will be). Also Mercenaries wasn't badly received at all (despite being a cheap cash-in).

The competition will be greatly toned down too, it's the only big game coming for the 3DS in january.

The RE game are decently leggy for what they are too.

Of course Mercenaries wasn't badly received, how would you know it was a cheap cash-in in the first place? Now those customers that were burnt will think it before jumping and buying another 3DS RE game.

And no, horror games have never worked well on handhelds, although there isn't much horror in RE this days, it's still a big factor. There are a lot of factors going against handhelds and horror games, the sound on handhelds is awful, the screen is small, the ambient (anywhere) is bad for setting on the mood to be scared, etc etc. IMO horror games are meant to be played alone in a room with your surround setup, and a big screen, but maybe that's just me.

For the competition, the game will go against the 3DS trinity which will still be selling well; I really don't know how you can be so optimistic about the game.

I mean, I predict 200k, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does 300k or 100k, because it is a big experiment Capcom is doing. Maybe the 3D screen will prove awesome for horror games and a whole new market niche is discovered, but I have many reservations about this.

 

[Mrbob]

I see RE:R selling 300-400K in Japan, and around 500K total in the West. But it could well do quite a bit worse.

That would be terrible for what Capcom is calling a main line RE game. RE5 shipped over 5 million.

 

[frankie_baby]

Of course Mercenaries wasn't badly received, how would you know it was a cheap cash-in in the first place? Now those customers that were burnt will think it before jumping and buying another 3DS RE game.

And no, horror games have never worked well on handhelds, although there isn't much horror in RE this days, it's still a big factor. There are a lot of factors going against handhelds and horror games, the sound on handhelds is awful, the screen is small, the ambient (anywhere) is bad for setting on the mood to be scared, etc etc. IMO horror games are meant to be played alone in a room with your surround setup, and a big screen, but maybe that's just me.

For the competition, the game will go against the 3DS trinity which will still be selling well; I really don't know how you can be so optimistic about the game.

I mean, I predict 200k, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does 300k or 100k, because it is a big experiment Capcom is doing. Maybe the 3D screen will prove awesome for horror games and a whole new market niche is discovered, but I have many reservations about this.

Well 3d for horror movies has always gone down well I can see it being great for horror games

 

[manueldelalas]

Well 3d for horror movies has always gone down well I can see it being great for horror games

Of course, nobody is saying the contrary.

 

[schuelma]

That would be terrible for what Capcom is calling a main line RE game. RE5 shipped over 5 million.

They may be calling it a main line game, but I would be shocked if they are expecting sales to approach RE5.

 

[Father_Brain]

They may be calling it a main line game, but I would be shocked if they are expecting sales to approach RE5.

As of their last quarterly report, IIRC, they weren't even shipping a million.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

That would be terrible for what Capcom is calling a main line RE game. RE5 shipped over 5 million.

fwiw, Capcom's expecting under a million for the fiscal year. If they were expecting sales like RE5 they'd have called Revelations "Resident Evil 6".

 

[cw_sasuke]

That would be terrible for what Capcom is calling a main line RE game. RE5 shipped over 5 million.

Revelations is a first year release on an single plattform - no one expects it to sell as well as RE5. They`ll be able to unveil RE6 at e3/TGS once they have released Revelations.

 

[Takao]

Capcom's seemingly more realistic than what Konami expected for Peace Walker, which is surprising given how backshit crazy Capcom can be...

 

[Spiegel]

Capcom's seemingly more realistic than what Konami expected for Peace Walker, which is surprising given how backshit crazy Capcom can be...

Capcom doesn't need to expect anything big from those 3DS releases because the games are bankrolled by Nintendo in one way or another.

 

[Sadist]

I'm not so sure about Revelations in Japan, but the game will definitely find an audience in the west. If Mercenaries 3D can sell 400k ww, Revelations will easily surpass that. After all the exposure it had (Demo in the Mercenaries 3D, pushed as an showcase title, demo in eShop etc.) i'm expecting it to hit one million units sold.

 

[schuelma]

Capcom doesn't need to expect anything big from those 3DS releases because the games are bankrolled by Nintendo in one way or another.

ahh that explains it!

 

[Kandinsky]

All I know is Revelations will sell the worst on 3DS

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

All I know is Revelations will sell the worst on 3DS

Yeah, I expect the Wii U version will sell better.

 

[cw_sasuke]

ahh that explains it!

...or they could just have realistic expectations - but no not evil capcom with money spender nintendo doesnt need to care about their software sales anymore ;-)

 

[Man God]

Normally I don't pay attention to avatars but what is with the guy who has Mario with a Monado strapped to his back dissing the 3DS at every possible instance?

Especially this weird PS Vita Revelations hangup. PSP couldn't even get its own announced RE game, let alone anyone elses.

 

[Takao]

Normally I don't pay attention to avatars but what is with the guy who has Mario with a Monado strapped to his back dissing the 3DS at every possible instance?

Especially this weird PS Vita Revelations hangup. PSP couldn't even get its own announced RE game, let alone anyone elses.

I don't know man, it's been a weird day. Some dude called me a 3DS troll even though I think I've trolled Vita a lot more than 3DS. Heck, I can't even remember trolling 3DS... I've said it had no games a few times, but until recently I don't think that would be considered un-true.

 

[Man God]

I don't know man, it's been a weird day. Some dude called me a 3DS troll even though I think I've trolled Vita a lot more than 3DS. Heck, I can't even remember trolling 3DS...

You do sometimes do it unintentionally while defending/defaming the Vita.

You mean well though.

 

[Alrus]

Normally I don't pay attention to avatars but what is with the guy who has Mario with a Monado strapped to his back dissing the 3DS at every possible instance?

Especially this weird PS Vita Revelations hangup. PSP couldn't even get its own announced RE game, let alone anyone elses.

He's second only to French when it comes to trolling Media Create thread. He also has this weird fetish with RE:R bombing. I think he posted the same message about ten times now.

By the way, what happened to French?

 

[Sadist]

Normally I don't pay attention to avatars but what is with the guy who has Mario with a Monado strapped to his back dissing the 3DS at every possible instance?

Especially this weird PS Vita Revelations hangup. PSP couldn't even get its own announced RE game, let alone anyone elses.

Schadenfreude

By the way, what happened to French?

MH Tri G sold on 3DS

 

[Spiegel]

...or they could just have realistic expectations - but no not evil capcom with money spender nintendo doesnt need to care about their software sales anymore ;-)

Nintendo isn't distributing and marketing RE in Europe anymore? And how is selling less than 1M a realistic goal for RE:Revelations?

I have to put the sanity of the people greenlighting those games in question then.

 

[Jomjom]

Normally I don't pay attention to avatars but what is with the guy who has Mario with a Monado strapped to his back dissing the 3DS at every possible instance?

Especially this weird PS Vita Revelations hangup. PSP couldn't even get its own announced RE game, let alone anyone elses.

Guy absolutely loves the Wii, but detests the 3DS?

 

[cw_sasuke]

Nintendo isn't distributing and marketing RE in Europe anymore? And how is selling less than 1M a realistic goal for RE:Revelations?

How much would be realistic ? A survival horror game on an handheld with a 10 million userbase is now supposed to outsell multiplattform console main titles ?

To be fair, Capcom is talkin about the results for this fiscal year - so it will have 2 months to reach the number, how much it`ll sell lifetime no one can predict. RE4 on Wii kept selling for a long time after its release.

 

[Boney]

I don't know man, it's been a weird day. Some dude called me a 3DS troll even though I think I've trolled Vita a lot more than 3DS. Heck, I can't even remember trolling 3DS... I've said it had no games a few times, but until recently I don't think that would be considered un-true.

wouldn't say this is trolling but this is kinda what man god means

We should bask in this while we can, because I have the feeling the inevitable 3DS revision will have much better battery life.

 

[BurntPork]

Normally I don't pay attention to avatars but what is with the guy who has Mario with a Monado strapped to his back dissing the 3DS at every possible instance?

Especially this weird PS Vita Revelations hangup. PSP couldn't even get its own announced RE game, let alone anyone elses.

He claims that he wasn't the one who chose the avatar.

Guy absolutely loves the Wii, but detests the 3DS?

He seems to be down on Wii U really hard, too, iirc.

How much would be realistic ? A survival horror game on an handheld with a 10 million userbase is now supposed to outsell multiplattform console main titles ?

To be fair, Capcom is talkin about the results for this fiscal year - so it will have 2 months to reach the number, how much it`ll sell lifetime no one can predict. RE4 on Wii kept selling for a long time after its release.

dem RE legs

 

[Graphics Horse]

RE5 is a million seller in Japan

http://garaph.info/gamesearch.php?t...d1=&sltd2=&gameid=&orderby=&res1=&res2=&opt=1

If you put it like that, yes.

Interestingly, the 3DS userbase is already higher than what the HD userbase was back when RE5 released.

 

[Man God]

He claims that he wasn't the one who chose the avatar.

Now that search is back you can prove that I don't know what Fire Emblem is either and have no idea where my avatar comes from.

Spoiler

What kind of crazy excuse is that???? Choose your own avatar!

 

[Takao]

Capcom doesn't need to expect anything big from those 3DS releases because the games are bankrolled by Nintendo in one way or another.

Sony paid for the marketing of MGS: PW in the west. Konami still had crazy expectations lol.

wouldn't say this is trolling but this is kinda what man god means

Vita's going to get a revision too. I just would expect a 3DS one first, and with a better battery since Sony's PSP revisions actually got worse stock batteries as time went on, and I expect Nintendo will listen to the battery life complaints.

 

[Man God]

Betting on handheld revisions is like betting on Scamco fucking up. It's going to happen, maybe even more than once a generation, it's just a matter of time.

That being said; totally waiting for Vita revision.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Vita's going to get a revision too. I just would expect a 3DS one first, and with a better battery since Sony's PSP revisions actually got worse stock batteries as time went on, and I expect Nintendo will listen to the battery life complaints.

3DS was released a year before Vita, so its only natural that it would get a revision sooner. Actually, i dont see what they could or would add to a Vita revision, there isnt anything relevant left...they wont add more flash memory because they want to sell you memory cards and there probably wont be an HDMI output.

 

[frankie_baby]

Sony paid for the marketing of MGS: PW in the west. Konami still had crazy expectations lol.



Vita's going to get a revision too. I just would expect a 3DS one first, and with a better battery since Sony's PSP revisions actually got worse stock batteries as time went on, and I expect Nintendo will listen to the battery life complaints.

Personally it wouldn't surprise me if vita carries on tanking in japan and and the western launch goes just as bad that vita ends up with a revision first maybe as soon as next xmas, cut costs and cut the price as much as possible for a relaunch

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

3DS was released a year before Vita, so its only natural that it would get a revision sooner. Actually, i dont see what they could or would add to a Vita revision, there isnt anything relevant left...they wont add more flash memory because they want to sell you memory cards and there probably wont be an HDMI output.

We might have a smaller edition if the market decides that the Vita is too big. A Go styled device, maybe.

Personally it wouldn't surprise me if vita carries on tanking in japan and and the western launch goes just as bad that vita ends up with a revision first maybe as soon as next xmas, cut costs and cut the price as much as possible for a relaunch

The good news is that Sony picked some common hardware for the device so it will be price-droppable within a year. The question is what will happen between then and now. I can see them treading water, but who knows where the market will go while that happens.

 

[frankie_baby]

We might have a smaller edition if the market decides that the Vita is too big. A Go styled device, maybe.



The good news is that Sony picked some common hardware for the device so it will be price-droppable within a year. The question is what will happen between then and now. I can see them treading water, but who knows where the market will go while that happens.

Component cost may drop but wether they'll drop enough to give Sony room to drop the price is a big if, I can easily see sacrifices being a possibility maybe a smaller and/or a lower quality screen

 

[test_account]

Schadenfreude

The 3DS isnt hurting

 

[Mpl90]

He's second only to French when it comes to trolling Media Create thread. He also has this weird fetish with RE:R bombing. I think he posted the same message about ten times now.

By the way, what happened to French?

First point: some people believe what they wants. Kandisky is one of them. But he's also an indicator, since so far, of all the things predicted by him, it has always happened the exact contrary.

For the second...too much trolling directed towards the same thing can be punished.

 

[electroplankton]

Yeah, I expect the Wii U version will sell better.

XBLA's will be the most lucky one.