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[Azelover]

Before the PSP was released, there were no chinks in Sony's armor. Hell, even I believe that they would steamroll the DS. Mostly everyone was wrong though.

Well not me, I knew from the beginning the DS would win, but I wasn't very vocal about it because it was absolutely pointless, not only would no one listen but also it wouldn't change anything, the DS would just win and they'd go dead silent, and sure enough that's what happened.

People were focusing on graphics too much and overlooking a lot of important things, it isn't just about the technology in this industry, specially in the handheld arena and it was all about the technology with the PSP. It's a very rare thing when the most powerful system wins, you have to get the priorities right and the DS had the right priorities in software(along with other advantages), eventually it would pull through.

 

[sasimirobot]

just my 2baht since I have nowhere else to vent. I just spent the other day , all day, playing the Xbox360, for the first time (yeah I know I am behind the times...)

I really dont see what the big deal is. GOW looks great, but kinda forced and like a teenage limp bizquit fans idea of what a "hardcore" next-gen game should look like. I didnt feel it even play that fun...

I was a big, BIG, fan of Ninja Gaiden on Xbox (just because of the visuals) and I really dont see what next-gen games are doing to blow that experience out of the water graphically.

I have never even seen a Wii, but my anticipation and excitement for the day when my roomates/friends/party guests can play one together is super high. I just have a feeling it will be a special and new "gaming" experience.

Right now my non-gaming pals are borrowing my DS to play Metroid (GBA) and Wario and refuse to give it back. I doubt this would happen if I lent them a PSP or PS3 for that matter.

Somewhere along the line gameplay went to shit to compensate for teh GRafix! I dont know when exactly , and I cant say that looking at screens of PS3 games doesnt tingle my penis, but something is just "missing" from this HD era of gaming somebody somewhere is trying to push on us.

I am not buying a PS3 or an Xbox360 until the price is really, really, really attractive...
There is something Nintendo is doing really right , right now , and I hope that most people on this board , even if they refuse to post about it, would in their hearts know...will change the gaming industry for the better.

 

[ksamedi]

As we are discussing Wii/DS games right now, Nintendo is developing the next big thing in there development studios. Some people think the Wii will get boring and that there are no games, but the DS has shown that it really only takes 1 or 2 games for a system to take off, and it should be unexpected. I think we will see those unexpected games on the Wii in 2007.

 

[Starchasing]

Wii Health and Wii Music... Big, big, big games, methinks.

No one expected Nintendogs or Brain Training. I believe Nintendo will release an unexpected type of mainstream game that will became a huge hit. Maybe a couple of them since it is so cheap to develop for wii. Touchscreen made games like Nintendogs possible. If Nintendo can do the same for motion sensing then it will sell very very well.

I believe that Wii will be the most succesful console because the wiimote will enable new type of mainstream games, and because im not sure if HD and better graphics can do the same.

 

[D.Lo]

Well not me, I knew from the beginning the DS would win, but I wasn't very vocal about it because it was absolutely pointless, not only would no one listen but also it wouldn't change anything, the DS would just win and they'd go dead silent, and sure enough that's what happened

You weren't the only one. I thought the DS would (or at least should) win, but I was wrong as to why!

I thought it would be the better battery life, better portability (clamshell design), more resilient hardware, great FPS controls on a handheld, Nintendo's games, and most of all, cheaper price. Basically, apart from the FPS bit, it would win for the same reasons the GB beat the Game Gear.

I think it probably still would have won based on these, maybe not by much. But thanks to Nintendogs, Brain Training, Animal Crossing, MKDS, NSMB and the amazing re-design, it's done more then 'win'. It's now re-defining success. And it's done it all without much in the way of 3rd party support. Old news, but still amazing.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Before the PSP was released, there were no chinks in Sony's armor. Hell, even I believe that they would steamroll the DS. Mostly everyone was wrong though.

Well tbh I had my doubts about the success of the DS as well. Sony sure looked like they were in a great position back then. But some guys were hating on the product (DS) and now own one...pretty inconsistent. If the hardware was shite back then it's still shite right now, isn't it?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

You weren't the only one. I thought the DS would (or at least should) win, but I was wrong as to why!

I thought it would be the better battery life, better portability (clamshell design), more resilient hardware, great FPS controls on a handheld, Nintendo's games, and most of all, cheaper price. Basically, apart from the FPS bit, it would win for the same reasons the GB beat the Game Gear.

I think it probably still would have won based on these, maybe not by much. But thanks to Nintendogs, Brain Training, Animal Crossing, MKDS, NSMB and the amazing re-design, it's done more then 'win'. It's now re-defining success. And it's done it all without much in the way of 3rd party support. Old news, but still amazing.

I felt pretty much the same way. I was an especially big supporter of the FPS controls (despite not being huge on FPS' myself).

I (like a lot of people here did and continue to do) initially dismissed Nintendo's 'Blue Ocean' talk for PR speak instead of a corporate philosophy shift.

 

[Shaheed79]

Well tbh I had my doubts about the success of the DS as well. Sony sure looked like they were in a great position back then. But some guys were hating on the product (DS) and now own one...pretty inconsistent. If the hardware was shite back then it's still shite right now, isn't it?

To be honest I don't think some of those people hated the DS as much as they were just motivated to dump on the Nintendudes optimistic views of their favorite developers future. They wanted to see them lose their last stronghold of defense in the handheld market just to lick the bitter tears off of some poor Zelda emo kids rosey cheeks. A lot of them use to be Nintendo fans themselves and probably hated seeing their old reflection in them. Despite their belly-aching I would wager most of those guys owned tons of Nintendo crap.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Well tbh I had my doubts about the success of the DS as well. Sony sure looked like they were in a great position back then. But some guys were hating on the product (DS) and now own one...pretty inconsistent. If the hardware was shite back then it's still shite right now, isn't it?

GAF is more of a gang-mentality then anything. The popular opinion rules the day. There are many examples of this, and people completly stuffing thier own foot into every orafice available.

Sometimes even obvious trends that smack people in the damn face go unnoticed, and they stick by thier opinion, afraid to seem flip-floppy, or just plain stubborn.

It was never more obvious then the Wii situation, when public demand was thru the f'ing roof, it was all over the news, e.tc. and still those with the belief of failure held on.

Seeing a trend is easy, if you can step back, and view the industry without bias.

GAF is a tiny minority of videogame opinion, one that does not sync up with 90% of other videogame purchasers. People tend to forget that often, thus the dumptrucks of crow bieng eaten on a daily basis.

Bold proclamations either make you look like a rocket scientist, or a certified sanitation engineer.

 

[Pureauthor]

Every once in a while, the crow gets brought out...

I know enough not to make bold predictions. The future's hidden to me, I don't know enough to see where it'll go. Whatever happens, happens. And then I deal with it.

 

[Pud]

 

[Jokeropia]

But while we're doing a crow-eating thingamajig, here's an old classic.

Haha, typhonsentra is in that very thread (from June 2006) arguing vehemently that PSP is destined to win in both US and Europe.

 

[Kiriku]

Nothing is more awesome than this GAF thread of DS predictions.

Hehe, I've been looking for that thread for so long, because I knew I had made a post somewhere about predicting the outcome of DS vs PSP, just didn't know in which thread.
I always believed DS would sell more, question was just how much. Back then it was very hard to predict how successful Sony would be, because there's not much history to go by (which I think is valid for the game industry as a whole really). The reason I believed in DS was simply because Nintendo owned the handheld market. And they have Pokémon. And I believe that even without the Nintendogs/Brain Training craze, the DS would've been the better selling system in the end.

But let's be fair here...back then, there was NO way to predict that Nintendo would even release a game like Brain Training, and that it would become a HUGE success and attract people who normally aren't into games etc etc.
Naturally, it's very convenient to go back and say "wow, those people were so wrong let's point and lol nintendo ftw!" when in fact some of those predictions were pretty reasonable (not drohne and Drinky though ) given the facts at hand and the uncertainty of what was to come. Hell, I bet even Nintendo themselves never thought Brain Training would be such a smashing success.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Haha, typhonsentra is in that very thread (from June 2006) arguing vehemently that PSP is destined to win in both US and Europe.

Good god, dont even bring up Typhonsentra. That guy has made some of the most crazy predictions, and comments this side of Mars.

I wonder what happened to him? He was basically wrong about every single thing ever.

Is he banned or something? Or did he bail with his tail between his legs?

 

[Pureauthor]

He's still around. Just got rid of his avatar, so he's less noticeable.

I think the DS scared him into submission or something. We've yet to see any crazy arguments coming from him.

 

[KINGMOKU]

He's still around. Just got rid of his avatar, so he's less noticeable.

I think the DS scared him into submission or something. We've yet to see any crazy arguments coming from him.

I'm sure you remember some of his rants. Just off the deep end, and was like a ****ing badger man. Just didnt know when to quit.

I cant remember if he said anything about the Wii or not. I would LOVE for someone to dig up some typhoon threads if they can find them.

Maybe I am over-selling his craziness, but he sticks out in my memory.

 

[JJConrad]

1: It's not that graphics don't matter, it's that they didn't matter as much as the other factors: Price, the touch screen, and software. People were so focused on the graphics, they couldn't see what the touch screen offered.

2: To your last paragraph, that's true, but the people on the other side are over-estimating the DS effect on the Wii and ignoring what Sony has to offer.

I think their is a big difference between the DS predictions then and the PS3 predictions now. I don't think as many people are ignoring the PS3's offerings as there were people doing DS's.

There were a lot of people predicting success for Nintendogs and Brain Age. Even though these games were revealed and released in a very short timespan, even though we didn't know what these games were at the time, nor did we have any idea they'd be as popular as they are ... there were many people predicting that these games would push the DS. Every prediction that list the touchscreen as a reason the DS won't fail recognised (to some extent) that was how Nintendo was going to expand their market. Nintendo was preaching about reaching new people by making more accessible games and doing things the others couldn't from the very beginning ... often mocked here for it. Brain Age and Nintendogs weren't so much new killer-IP's that had only been released on the PSP things would have been differerent ... they were the products of Nintendo's new philosophy being applicated. Granted, nobody thought it would make as big of a difference as it did.

I don't think people are ignoing the PS3's offerings. As we were told most of us waited patiently for VF5. We gave them the benifit of the doubt even though we were pretty sure it wouldn't do much. We are now waiting for Gundam and then most likely MGS4, then FFXIII, and so on... None of the PS3 predictions threads have ever been close to as ugly as the DS threads. The difference between then and now is that their is nothing new for the PS3 ... no untapped market, no new direction, not even a promise of one... we are simply being asked to wait for the power of the Playstation name to overcome all. There were those that said the DS would win just becasue of the Gameboy heritage, but they were wrong too.

This is still the japanese sales thread and that's what I'm reffering to. Parts of it still apply to the rest of the world, but then the DS isn't selling 200k in a week in February in the rest of the world either.

 

[charlequin]

I cant remember if he said anything about the Wii or not.

He had a "Wii60 bitches!" avatar with the mustardayonaise guy from Mr. Show, and he claimed that it was funny because "like mustard and mayonaise, Wii and 360 are two tastes that don't go well together." :lol

 

[CorwinB]

There were those that said the DS would win just becasue of the Gameboy heritage, but they were wrong too.

Actually, the "DS wins because of the GB heritage" is mostly some lame after the fact justification for the DS success by Sony fanboys unable to eat their crow like gentlemen.

"But everybody knew that the DS is the next Gameboy, so it's only natural that it dominates the handheld market."

"Nobody expected the PSP to beat Nintendo on their first try, it's nice how they captured marketshare, though."

"The PSP is doing remarkably well for a first-comer to the handheld market without anything like the unfair advantage of the Gameboy brand."

 

[Brak]

If there's one positive to take away from DS turning the world upside-down, it's that the discussion level on GAF has advanced by leaps and bounds.

Sure, there's still incidents every now and then where some random poster shows up and starts spewing garbage, but for the most part arguments are actually based on logic and reason rather than "LOL MINIGAMES!!!11". The mods also appear to be a little more impartial, or quieter at least. (Kryptonian getting tag-teamed by 2 mods in that DS vs. PSP thread was pretty awful).

 

[HyperionX]

I was going to make a thread with all the shitty predictions I'd made (and ask others to come forward with the shitty predictions of their own), but ultimately decided against it. But while we're doing a crow-eating thingamajig, here's an old classic.

Pretty surprising that I under-predicted PSP sales. I may be one of the few that did so.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

:lol

Why are you laughing at Drohne's prediction?

When I read it:

really sony won this in the design phase when their ambition so outstripped nintendo's. and they sealed that when they set such an agressive launch price. all that's left is to watch it play out. the psp and the ds are going to sit next to one another in shops, and that direct comparison won't be at all flattering to ds. maybe i just have a naïve faith in superior products.

...that sounds dead nuts on to me. The DS was a poor comparison to the PSP when it was side-by-side in the shops.

That's why Nintendo scrambled and came out with the DS Lite, right?

Of course the PSP is the reason they came out with the DS Lite. If Nintendo had no challenge, the old DS would probably still be the DS we all have now, and I doubt that model would have ever been as successful as the DS Lite. After all, this is the same company that practically forced us to all carry around one of these pieces of crap for years before they finally answered their customers' begging and pleading for a simple backlit screen, for goodness sake:

 

[Varjet]

Why are you laughing at Drohne's prediction?

When I read it:



...that sounds dead nuts on to me. The DS was a poor comparison to the PSP when it was side-by-side in the shops.

That's why Nintendo scrambled and came out with the DS Lite, right?

Of course the PSP is the reason they came out with the DS Lite. If Nintendo had no challenge, the old DS would probably still be the DS we all have now. And I doubt it would have ever been as successful as the DS Lite. After all, this is the same company that practically forced us to all carry around one of these pieces of crap for years before they finally answered their customers' begging and pleading for a simple backlit screen, for goodness sake:

 

[Muppet345]

Of course the PSP is the reason they came out with the DS Lite. If Nintendo had no challenge, the old DS would probably still be the DS we all have now. And I doubt it would have ever been as successful as the DS Lite. After all, this is the same company that practically forced us to all carry around one of these pieces of crap for years before they finally answered their customers' begging and pleading for a simple backlit screen, for goodness sake:

A "simple" backlit screen? Yeah, no. Competitors had them in their handhelds and they drained battery life to an absurd level. It was frustrating and one of the major reasons they failed. The tech wasn't reasonable at that time.

 

[cvxfreak]

If PS3 were ever to outsell Wii for a single week, that 2005 thread when the PSP outsold DS is going to repeat. Shall be entertaining.

 

[Xavien]

That's why Nintendo scrambled and came out with the DS Lite, right?

Of course the PSP is the reason they came out with the DS Lite. If Nintendo had no challenge, the old DS would probably still be the DS we all have now. And I doubt it would have ever been as successful as the DS Lite. After all, this is the same company that practically forced us to all carry around one of these pieces of crap for years before they finally answered their customers' begging and pleading for a simple backlit screen, for goodness sake:

*GB picture*

Before the DS sucess and after the announcement of PSP a lot of people round here thought that Nintendo was going to go the way of Sega, but they (Iwata especially) have managed to attain a new level of success they havent seen since the NES.

So you could argue that Nintendo is at their absolute best when the writing is on the wall and they are under serious pressure from the competition (sure they was making a profit, but Nintendo themselves said they were very dissapointed with the gamecube sales).

If the Wii turns out to be a big success, could this be the biggest turn-around in the gaming industry's history?

 

[ghostlyjoe]

If there's one positive to take away from DS turning the world upside-down, it's that the discussion level on GAF has advanced by leaps and bounds.

Sure, there's still incidents every now and then where some random poster shows up and starts spewing garbage, but for the most part arguments are actually based on logic and reason rather than "LOL MINIGAMES!!!11". The mods also appear to be a little more impartial, or quieter at least. (Kryptonian getting tag-teamed by 2 mods in that DS vs. PSP thread was pretty awful).

I think the hegemony on this board is undeniable, and while it has quited some, as you say, Nintendo fans are still an underclass around here. It's getting less overt, perhaps, but everyone who has spent a decent amount of time here knows there are invisible lines that cannot be crossed -- and those lines are not evenly drawn.

Don't believe me? Just type even a mild troll in a Sony thread, then get back to me in a month or so.

 

[capslock]

If the Wii turns out to be big success, could this be the biggest turn-around in the gaming industry's history?

Not really, because Nintendo were never really in the danger of going financially under like Sega.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

A "simple" backlit screen? Yeah, no. Competitors had them in their handhelds and they drained battery life to an absurd level. It was frustrating and one of the major reasons they failed. The tech wasn't reasonable at that time.

.

People were also complaining about the GB's lack of color. Well, there were other color handhelds that ate battery and cost more than the Gameboy. Guess which one came out on top?

Price + Portability coupled with good software is the key to success for handhelds. Not specs.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Yeah. That was 2003. What did we have to carry around since 1989?

Like I said. We waited for a backlit screen for YEARS and Nintendo never responded.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Not really, because Nintendo were never really in the danger of going financially under like Sega.

But Sega never turned around, either. Nintendo went from First (NES/SNES), to second (n64) to last (Gamecube) in a span of a few generations. If Nintendo's able to jump back to #1 against the megapowers that are Sony and Microsoft, it would be one of the biggest (if not biggest) turnarounds in the console gaming history.

If Sony goes from first to last, that'd also contend for biggest turnaround...however it's a turn in the wrong direction.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

A "simple" backlit screen? Yeah, no. Competitors had them in their handhelds and they drained battery life to an absurd level. It was frustrating and one of the major reasons they failed. The tech wasn't reasonable at that time.

"The tech wasn't reasonable at the time?"

"At the time" is 12 freaking years? Yeah. Right.

The Li-Ion battery was on the market in 1991 and all over the place in 1992-1993. It took Nintendo 10 years after that to do a backlit screen.

Nintendo apologists are craaaa-zy.

 

[Xavien]

Not really, because Nintendo were never really in the danger of going financially under like Sega.

True, but it is undeniable that the sales of Nintendo consoles in both the handheld and home console market has been less, generation after generation. Now it seems set to turn that around with the DS (and maybe the Wii?).

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I don't doubt the DSL would've been a little later in coming, but it assuredly would have come with or without the PSP. Don't forget, they released the DSL a couple months *after* the ridiculous record breaking Xmas sales of 05...it was more of a finishing move than a comeback attempt.

 

[gkryhewy]

"The tech wasn't reasonable at the time?"

"At the time" is 12 freaking years? Yeah. Right.

Nintendo apologists are craaaa-zy.

Yes, you're completely right. The DS brick just wasn't selling AT ALL next to the PSP. DS fans owe everything to Sony's pressuring Nintendo with the PSP. Thank GOD for that.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Yeah. That was 2003. What did we have to carry around since 1989?

You had lotsa options.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Say fellows, what about the Game Boy Light, that came out in 1997?

Just because NoA didn't want it, didn't mean it wasn't there.

Nintendo has a habit of only including tech if it doesn't mess with battery life/portability/ability to make a profit on a low cost. Seems to work ok for them.

 

[Lapsed]

But let's be fair here...back then, there was NO way to predict that Nintendo would even release a game like Brain Training, and that it would become a HUGE success and attract people who normally aren't into games etc etc.
Naturally, it's very convenient to go back and say "wow, those people were so wrong let's point and lol nintendo ftw!" when in fact some of those predictions were pretty reasonable (not drohne and Drinky though ) given the facts at hand and the uncertainty of what was to come. Hell, I bet even Nintendo themselves never thought Brain Training would be such a smashing success.

I'm not linking to these analysts and old posts to 'pwn' anyone or insist people eat crow. I just want a good discussion of the business (since we already have discussion of the sales). The errors people make are when they analyze the hardware of the console and some of the software. But one can accurately predict the future by learning and understanding the business strategies. Investors do this all the time. I've tried even copying and pasting directly from the Blue Ocean Strategy book itself in hopes it would cast good seeds for blossoming discussion. No luck.

I could write a post saying, "Those who are saying the Wii will become a novelty and flop after a few months are like those who said the same thing about the DS." Not only would such a post be ignored, one would immediately think the person is a fanboy for saying that while the thread becomes a parade of further marching nonsense. But by linking to these analysts and old GAF threads, people make the connection themselves. Sadly, I fear that people will only be looking at 'pwnership' at these old analyst and GAF threads rather than seeing common business mistakes. (The all time most common mistake in the console business is to think it is the technology business. It isn't. It is in the entertainment business.)

The "Console War" and military jargon just needs to die. There will be no more 'console wars' in the future, at least not in the traditional manner. Console companies are going to be emulating the Wii for now on. They will emulate the Wii's strategy not just because the Wii is selling extremely well but because the Wii is vastly more profitable than the alternative strategies of Playstation 3 and (especially) Xbox 360.

We have an interesting opportunity in front of us. Today, business students read about Atari, NES, and other products like the ipod in business textbooks. But imagine if, during those time periods, you studied the sales performance, the business strategies, and all while it was going on. Real life beats any textbook. The Wii will go down in future business textbooks because it is a good example of an intentional Blue Ocean Strategy and disruptive product. But also, it will be included to give inspiration to future companies that even if your competitors own the movie and music studios or throw away billions upon billions of dollars to push their product out, a small company can not only outsell them but disrupt the industry.

We have the opportunity before us to learn much about the business of entertainment. The Internet has been primarily used for information, but the next wave will be the Internet being used primarily for entertainment. Just like at the dot com boom who knew how to ride the information wave, many people became rich. Some, disgustingly rich. We can apply the same lessons to our business ventures in the future (unless you want to work for someone else your entire life). The DS may print money, but there is no reason why we can't.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Say fellows, what about the Game Boy Light, that came out in 1997?

Just because NoA didn't want it, didn't mean it wasn't there.

It wasn't just NOA. It wasn't anywhere but Japan. So yeah. It really wasn't there, for the vast majority of the world.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Blue Ocean this, Blue Ocean That.

We get it, really...we do. Your posts are well put together and thoughtful...but I swear to god you say the same thing every time.

 

[Souldriver]

We get it, really...we do. Your posts are well put together and thoughtful...but I swear to god you say the same thing every time.

Some people like his posts, some don't. If you're part of the latter group, then just ignore his posts.

 

[KGKK]

Yay for VF5

 

[Frankfurter]

True, but it is undeniable that the sales of Nintendo consoles in both the handheld and home console market has been less, generation after generation. Now it seems set to turn that around with the DS (and maybe the Wii?).

Huh? GBA is the most successful handheld ever. It has clearly outsold GB and GBC. Combining GB and GBC obviously changes that picture, but that's not exactly fair comparison (two generations of handhelds vs. one, ~10 years lifespan vs. ~3.5).

 

[Muppet345]

Yeah. That was 2003. What did we have to carry around since 1989?

Like I said. We waited for a backlit screen for YEARS and Nintendo never responded.

That wasn't his point. He was saying Nintendo released the GBA SP without any competition, in response to claims Nintendo wouldn't have released the DSL without the PSP.

Nintendo apologists are craaaa-zy.

Jesus, I've been called a fanboy for everyone on this board. :lol A nintard in one thread and an xbot in another.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Some people like his posts, some don't. If you're part of the latter group, then just ignore his posts.

If you didn't like what I posted, you could've ignored it, too.


Nah, I always read what Lapsed has to say. I just wish it didn't always sound like he was a spokesman for the Blue Ocean Strategy book.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

It wasn't just NOA. It wasn't anywhere but Japan. So yeah. It really wasn't there, for the vast majority of the world.

Shucks, I thought this thread was about Japan.

 

[Muppet345]

Shucks, I thought this thread was about Japan.

Ssh, don't bother trying to use logic.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Huh? GBA is the most successful handheld ever. It has clearly outsold GB and GBC. Combining GB and GBC obviously changes that picture, but that's not exactly fair comparison (two generations of handhelds vs. one, ~10 years lifespan vs. ~3.5).

Huh, 3.5 year lifespan? I got my GBA back in 2001...and I do believe they're still selling - especially in North America.

In fact, I just picked up Final Fantasy VI.

- edit - Even though I realize we're in a MediaCreate thread, they always evolve into worldwide discussion. I don't see that as a problem.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

Ssh, don't bother trying to use logic.

That's not logical. That's a rhetorical device that essentially circumvents the other poster's point. Just because the thread started out about Japanese sales, the debate has changed. The backlit GB was used to counter his argument about Nintendo lagging behind the available technology, and he countered that the device was only made available to a minority of potential customers. It's a fair statement, regardless of the thread title.

Sorry to jump in like this. I just find it annoying when people fall back on lame rhetorical tactics and then congratulate one another on their superior debating skills.

 

[Muppet345]

That's not logical. That's a rhetorical device that essentially circumvents the other poster's point. Just because the thread started out about Japanese sales, the debate has changed. The backlit GB was used to counter his argument about Nintendo lagging behind the available technology, and he countered that the device was only made available to a minority of potential customers. It's a fair statement, regardless of the thread title.

Sorry to jump in like this. I just find it annoying when people fall back on lame rhetorical tactics and then congratulate one another on their superior debating skills.

You're right. I was just irritated when he did the same thing. Continue.