Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Pretty telling comment from Mark Healey here. Likely a mistake Media Molecule won't make twice.
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Media Molecule Co-Founders biggest regret with Dreams was not focusing on multiplayer.
- Thread starter Men_in_Boxes
- Start date
Pretty telling comment from Mark Healey here. Likely a mistake Media Molecule won't make twice.
Shifty1897
Member
THAT was their takeaway? Maybe they should have focused on a simultaneous PC release and the ability to import/export things people created with Dreams into other applications.
Shubh_C63
Member
Just like tons of free mods ?
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
There were way bigger problems with Dreams than not having multiplayer.
>Lack of PC release, where games like this tend to be very popular if done correctly.
>A way to share creations that didn't solely rely on Playstation servers.
>The game was too broad in what you could do. You usually want to restrict it a bit and give players simpler tools, thus making it more acessible, stimulating creativity more and attracting a consistent niche (see: Trackmania, Tabletop Simulator, Gmod)
>Lack of PC release, where games like this tend to be very popular if done correctly.
>A way to share creations that didn't solely rely on Playstation servers.
>The game was too broad in what you could do. You usually want to restrict it a bit and give players simpler tools, thus making it more acessible, stimulating creativity more and attracting a consistent niche (see: Trackmania, Tabletop Simulator, Gmod)
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The Co-Founder of Media Molecule disagrees.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
In their defense, development started around 2014. At the time the idea of a simultaneous PC release or exporting PlayStation anything off PlayStation was not something anyone would ever consider.
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
Yes, that's why the game failed
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It failed because of hindsight? I don't think that's how it works.
He spent 8+ years on Dreams. His intimacy with the game and the industry would give him better insight than anyone of us.
For the Love of God please dont shut down the Servers. I need more time still.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Non-omitted I can agree with. And what they REALLY should have focused on was enabling a storefront for people to sell their created games to play on a console (I guess as long as the person has a copy of Dreams, maybe). Would've had to prevent sales of games clearly infringing on IP rights though, obviously.
Only after they got that taken care of should a PC port had been considered, but it's one of the few games that would've made sense for a PC version after a year or two of release, certainly.
John Bilbo
Member
Steam release + Workshop support = profit
FalsettoVibe
Member
This game should have been on PC......period. That + multiplayer and it would have sold more than Helldivers 2.
What the heck is Sony thinking......smh
What the heck is Sony thinking......smh
Hudo
Gold Member
And that's why he's only a co-founder.
If he was a Sigma with the grindset, he'd be the only founder left.
SF Kosmo
Banned
Monetization was also a huge issue for this game. Like selling it as a boxed retail thing was fucking dumb, they should have treated it like a platform, packed it in with PSN, and found other ways to monetize with ads or content stores or whatever.
Neofire
Member
I knew this was going to be the first comment. There are plenty of PC games that underperformed that didn't have a console release and ain't no one saying anything about those.
I believe that should have made a PS5 version at launch and it would have been just fine.
Neofire
Member
Unfortunately it didn't and you are right they should have added support for it's newest PlayStation iteration and VR from their respective launch windows. There were minimal things Sony could have done to make this game hit it's stride.
demigod
Member
It could’ve been a high end graphics looking roblox. Buncha morons.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
they needed a Men_In_Boxes as consultant. we could have a 40B game right here
ChuckeRearmed
Gold Member
So basically he still does not get what was wrong with Dreams.
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Haint
Member
Virtually all mods of any note are monetized in some capacity these days. The only reason they're not sold outright is cause it's illegal, which is uncoincidentally why so many of them get nuked out of existence with takedown notices from the IP holders.
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Fbh
Member
The problem with Dreams is that while it simplified some stuff, it would still requiere a ton of time and effort to make anything decent on it. And if you are going to spend a ton of time and effort on something you'll probably want to be able to sell it or at least make it easily available for as many people as possible to play.
On the off chance you are someone who basically wants to spend hundreds or thousands of hours making a free indie game, I imagine you'd at least like to be able to put it on PSN, Steam, Itch.io, etc instead of just being available to Ps4/5 users who own Dreams and are actively looking for stuff to play there.
Maybe that would have more weight if in the last 10 years MM released more than 2 games that bombed (one of them twice).
These guys had ONE successful idea...16 years ago.
On the off chance you are someone who basically wants to spend hundreds or thousands of hours making a free indie game, I imagine you'd at least like to be able to put it on PSN, Steam, Itch.io, etc instead of just being available to Ps4/5 users who own Dreams and are actively looking for stuff to play there.
Maybe that would have more weight if in the last 10 years MM released more than 2 games that bombed (one of them twice).
These guys had ONE successful idea...16 years ago.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
This guy worked on the old Magic Carpet game way back in the 90's. Maybe he can reboot the game and use Dreams.
I've posted this Sirenhead video before but here it is again. Was this really done using a PS4?
And without the Sirenhead
I've posted this Sirenhead video before but here it is again. Was this really done using a PS4?
And without the Sirenhead
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Puscifer
Member
To already existing games where the players already made their initial investment? Where even good mods end up getting donations?
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bitbydeath
Member
Lack of a proper SP component was the bigger issue. IMO
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Has the user base collapsed? I was recently wondering what stuff was recently happening with this game.
Gojiira
Member
Awful take,MANY modders work for years on Free Mods. Many have them been hired after said mods prove successful.
So yes plenty would make stuff for free, not just limited to games either..
EDMIX
Banned
Well, I can see why. With LBP, it as a massive hit because of that community playing together and creating stuff, so I can see design wise why they feel that way about Dreams. Thats a hard thing to get going with established genres, imagine trying to get that going with something so unheard of like Dreams?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
With LBP, I think sales were decent and it was more game focused with MP and Sackboy in videos going through levels.
With Dreams, I got more of the impression it was a tech demo where Sony and MM unleashed a piece of software for gamers to do the work for them to promote PS with their own demos and simple games.
With Dreams, I got more of the impression it was a tech demo where Sony and MM unleashed a piece of software for gamers to do the work for them to promote PS with their own demos and simple games.
nial
Gold Member
Eh, Helldivers 1 launched on PC in December 2015, a few months after its PS4 and PS Vita release.
I think he has a good point. The problem with Dreams wasn't that people weren't spending hours creating things, because they were. There are some amazing creations in it. It was that when people had created something it was mostly a case of somebody just poping into your creation
Then leaving and you the creator just seeing a number go up. It didn't have that multiplayer world that games like roblox or minecraft had. Where you could chill out and interact with a friend in a world you created and show off about while they're there. It didn't have the player networking element to make it popular.
Then leaving and you the creator just seeing a number go up. It didn't have that multiplayer world that games like roblox or minecraft had. Where you could chill out and interact with a friend in a world you created and show off about while they're there. It didn't have the player networking element to make it popular.
SlicedBread3
Member
He does also say that it's a shame they didn't bring it to PC. (The whole interview is pretty interesting and covers a lot more then Men_in_boxes' usual agenda driven cherry picked quotes).
Probably the most interesting for people here is he believes their next project is more of a game then a creation tool.
Looking forward to seeing it what is. Dreams was unbelievably impressive and LBP is the GOAT imo. (Tearaway was pretty cool. Wish it had been a bit less of a cakewalk though). A standalone release of Tren would also be appreciated.
Probably the most interesting for people here is he believes their next project is more of a game then a creation tool.
Looking forward to seeing it what is. Dreams was unbelievably impressive and LBP is the GOAT imo. (Tearaway was pretty cool. Wish it had been a bit less of a cakewalk though). A standalone release of Tren would also be appreciated.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
The studio has another DNA at this point. I wonder how media molecule is going to be their next game.
at this point, Asobi with Astrobot is what Mm should have been.
semiconscious
Member
just when you think that these guys no longer 'get' it? (as in, 'people don't wanna play games, they wanna make them!') they basically confirm it...
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Ultimately I think he is salty that Sony didn't see much value in further investments in Dreams and decided that they could just work out a deal with getting Roblox on PlayStation and take the 30% returns from that without the risk involved with throwing money into Dreams.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
This game probably desperately needed early access to get feedback from the community.
It's obvious they spent a lot of time and delivered a product that didn't have much scale for monetization.
Sony gave them rope and they hung themselves. You'll always have guys like this guy looking to blame the corporate overlords, but Sony gave this studio a ridiculous amount of time to get this right and they just didn't. Even after Dreams released, this guy had 3 years before he left to turn it into something.
It's obvious they spent a lot of time and delivered a product that didn't have much scale for monetization.
Sony gave them rope and they hung themselves. You'll always have guys like this guy looking to blame the corporate overlords, but Sony gave this studio a ridiculous amount of time to get this right and they just didn't. Even after Dreams released, this guy had 3 years before he left to turn it into something.
SlicedBread3
Member
Yeah I was a bit worried about this. Though after playing Tren (Game they released in Dreams last year) I'm feeling less concerned. It does make me think they could still do something comparable to Astro Bot.
Although, while it wouldn't be to my tastes. If I was them I'd strongly consider doing an Animal Crossing style life sim. It's something Sony don't really have an answer to and it would fit their usual cosy artistic vibe.
It actually did have early access.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
that would be very smart.
nial
Gold Member
Boku no Natsuyasumi was that before Animal Crossing. One of my favorite Sony series.
And yeah, Tren was great, it shows that Media Molecule has still got that Tearaway feel.
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