Ah the memories of EX Skill harvesting...
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Mega Man Community Thread | It's not over yet! -Cancelled- WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOOOR!?
- Thread starter Kokonoe
- Start date
Ah the memories of EX Skill harvesting...
Trying to get all of the EX skills in Mega Man Zero 2 recently was the first time I attempted a self-challenge run of a Mega Man game. I managed to keep my rank high enough to get most of the EX skills, but eventually lost steam towards the end. I still managed to beat the game without using a cyber-elf.
I found the experience to be really fun. It led me to attempting a high-score run on Mega Man Zero 1's Hard mode. That wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. While (perhaps because) Zero 1 is a really demanding game, beating it normally isn't that different from doing a high-score run. You just need to hold back on the cyber-elves. I managed to keep an A-rank almost up till the fortress stages (which I haven't really attempted).
It was a big difference from my original Zero 1 run, where I needed to use a lot of cyber-elves to get by. But I find that the Zero games are actually really fair, if you know what you are doing. In comparison, some games like X5 feel like they have really cheap segments where you can't avoid damage.
I found the experience to be really fun. It led me to attempting a high-score run on Mega Man Zero 1's Hard mode. That wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. While (perhaps because) Zero 1 is a really demanding game, beating it normally isn't that different from doing a high-score run. You just need to hold back on the cyber-elves. I managed to keep an A-rank almost up till the fortress stages (which I haven't really attempted).
It was a big difference from my original Zero 1 run, where I needed to use a lot of cyber-elves to get by. But I find that the Zero games are actually really fair, if you know what you are doing. In comparison, some games like X5 feel like they have really cheap segments where you can't avoid damage.
3 is the first fair Zero game while 4 is if anything overly generous.
1 and 2 are brutal if you want to get everything, but yes, eventually the crazy muscle memory and level memorization will turn you into a god of action platforming or have you crying like a newborn babe.
1 and 2 are brutal if you want to get everything, but yes, eventually the crazy muscle memory and level memorization will turn you into a god of action platforming or have you crying like a newborn babe.
I actually disagree. I think you are conflating "fair" with "easy". I think that Zero 1 and 2 are perfectly fair games, just difficult. They don't trick you, everything can be dodged, and the amount of damage you take if you mess up is pretty reasonable. Zero 1, however, is demanding, since it doesn't have a lenient extra-life system. But the stage design itself isn't that bad. The stages are pretty short, which off-sets some of these problems. You can't use cyber-elves, but you don't need them to actually beat the game.
I actually think that Zero 4 is the much more difficult game to try to do A or S rank stage runs on. Since the stages are so long, and often have more substantial mid-bosses, trying to clear a stage in one go is a much bigger head-ache. Even after my Hard mode Zero 1 score run, I find Zero 4 to be much harder to do without dying or falling back on using Croire outside of the tight limits.
Huh? When you die, you just choose "Load Saved Game" rather than Continue and start again. It isn't that slow of a process. When doing high score runs in Zero 2, 3, and 4, it is the exact same process (since you can't afford to die at all).
I don't think the Zero games require particularly more replaying than any other Mega Man game if you do not care about rank, either. You can always use cyber-elves if you are having trouble. The expendable ones are pretty common. If you do care about rank or making a perfect run, then the classic and X series games can be just as brutal for those kinds of challenges.
In my book, talking about "fair" is about mission design. It means that the game doesn't through cheap shots at the player. For example, I consider the point in Mega Man X5 in Grizzly's stage where you jump onto a platform where two taxies of different types immediately attack you to be an example of a cheap shot. In that case, the enemies are very difficult to just dodge thanks to their large size, and have too much health to immediately kill. In my experience, the Zero games don't pull that kind of stuff.
Ok, some X5 replay notes...
The Skiver
Axle the Red
Dynamo 1
Dark Dizzy
Easiest boss in the game, no matter how much health he has. His stage is much harder though. Watch out for bats dropping spikes on shit because like spikes usually do they'll kill you instantly.
Mattrex
Part two of this level involves choosing whether to jump on platforms over lava while chased by a dragon who destroys those platforms, or going into a lava filled cave with an armor that gradually takes damage from that lava. Oh, and there are tons of enemies to make your armor's destruction come more quickly. I ended up doing the top path.
Duff McWhalen
Most difficult regular stage in the game. Your taste of hell begins here.
Grizzly Slash
Just use duck-shoot-duck-shoot for the train engines.
Dynamo 2
Izzy Glow
Shades of Split Mushroom in the level design.
Squid Adler
All the annoying aspects of X4 Jet Stingray's level in half the distance!
Virus Stage 1 - Shadow Devil
OH. MY. GOD.
Quick Man's lasers were even harder than I remembered.
Virus Stage 2 - Rangda Bangda 2
Haven't gotten here yet.
Virus Stage 3 - Zero
Haven't gotten here yet.
Virus Stage 4 - Boss Rush, Sigma
SCREEN HIGH LIFE BARS
The Skiver
Really straightforward boss to fight. Just walk around and dash or dash jump as you need to. When he does his whirlwind attack you need to jump over them as they come out or they become impossible to avoid.
Axle the Red
Be prepared to react quickly. The fight starts with him producing a clone just for one hop that you can't hit, but after that he'll produce either a greenish or purplish ball behind him. The greenish ball cannot be destroyed and will move straight forward, while the purplish ball will bounce at angles and can be shot down. He also has a vine attack that'll reach 3/4 screen, but if he's by himself this is just an opportunity to land hits but if he's doing it while cloned then you're kinda fucked on the ground.
Dynamo 1
Stay on the wall and dashjump over when necessary. When he floats up after leap slashing he'll do very little damage so even if you mess up it's not that big of a deal.
Dark Dizzy
Easiest boss in the game, no matter how much health he has. His stage is much harder though. Watch out for bats dropping spikes on shit because like spikes usually do they'll kill you instantly.
Mattrex
Part two of this level involves choosing whether to jump on platforms over lava while chased by a dragon who destroys those platforms, or going into a lava filled cave with an armor that gradually takes damage from that lava. Oh, and there are tons of enemies to make your armor's destruction come more quickly. I ended up doing the top path.
Stay on the wall. When he's shooting flames, slide down to just above where they are to fire shots. He'll make really tall hops that you can dash under, but usually wait for the charge after it. Bait it so that he'll hit the wall low so you can dashjump over him. After a while he'll start going to the wall. Stay high on the wall so that if he charges at you you'll bait him into going high so falling is all you need to do. If he doesn't charge he'll fire flame shots that you can dodge by wall jumping up or falling. He'll also have an attack that has flames shoot up from regularly spaced intervals, so watch out for that.
Duff McWhalen
Most difficult regular stage in the game. Your taste of hell begins here.
Submarine Part 1
While you can't destroy the sub before you reach the end of the level section, you CAN destroy the top and bottom gun mounts. Destroying the bottom one is key to winning the eventual fight.
In the actual fight, if you haven't destroyed the top mount, go into a rhythm where you hop to bait the laser and then shoot a charged shot to destroy the enemies as they come out while also sometimes inflicting damage. These enemies will sometimes fly back towards you before they leave the screen, so if you let any of them live watch out for that.
Submarine Part 2
The line on the top is the key to this fight. It allows you to dash back and forth to avoid the torpedoes coming from below while also blasting the torpedoes coming from the upper section. Individual bays will respawn until their respective mount is destroyed. After the top mount is gone then you can drop down and just fire charged shots while crouching until it's dead.
Submarine Part 3
Stay on the right edge while ducking, jumping, and otherwise dodging as necessary. Destroy the crystal that operates the shield then land damage before the crystal respawns. When the sub finally starts blowing up, this will not stop it from firing one last laser, and you will also lose the floor underneath you. Don't let yourself die because of this.
McWhalen himself is a fight where you have very little use of your own life bar. In the first part, you'll have to land hits while navigating the ice platforms he creates which isn't too hard but there are also spikes on the return that will kill you instantly. After taking enough damage, he'll change sides and then fire 1x3 ice blocks at high speed which will slam you into the instant death spikes behind you. Jumping too low is bad. Jumping too high is bad. Get a feel for the timing and dash jump between these ice shots appropriately.
While you can't destroy the sub before you reach the end of the level section, you CAN destroy the top and bottom gun mounts. Destroying the bottom one is key to winning the eventual fight.
In the actual fight, if you haven't destroyed the top mount, go into a rhythm where you hop to bait the laser and then shoot a charged shot to destroy the enemies as they come out while also sometimes inflicting damage. These enemies will sometimes fly back towards you before they leave the screen, so if you let any of them live watch out for that.
Submarine Part 2
The line on the top is the key to this fight. It allows you to dash back and forth to avoid the torpedoes coming from below while also blasting the torpedoes coming from the upper section. Individual bays will respawn until their respective mount is destroyed. After the top mount is gone then you can drop down and just fire charged shots while crouching until it's dead.
Submarine Part 3
Stay on the right edge while ducking, jumping, and otherwise dodging as necessary. Destroy the crystal that operates the shield then land damage before the crystal respawns. When the sub finally starts blowing up, this will not stop it from firing one last laser, and you will also lose the floor underneath you. Don't let yourself die because of this.
McWhalen himself is a fight where you have very little use of your own life bar. In the first part, you'll have to land hits while navigating the ice platforms he creates which isn't too hard but there are also spikes on the return that will kill you instantly. After taking enough damage, he'll change sides and then fire 1x3 ice blocks at high speed which will slam you into the instant death spikes behind you. Jumping too low is bad. Jumping too high is bad. Get a feel for the timing and dash jump between these ice shots appropriately.
Grizzly Slash
Just use duck-shoot-duck-shoot for the train engines.
This fight becomes yet another bait and dash away affair. Not really much else to say about it.
Dynamo 2
Exactly like Dynamo 1 except he now has a fullscreen electric bolt attack that first strikes every other body length on the screen, then all of your side of the screen, then all of his side. He is free to move relatively quickly after it too. Just stand in the right place, then dash forward, then dash back.
Izzy Glow
Shades of Split Mushroom in the level design.
Take care not to let Izzy run into you while he's teleporting around the room. If he stops to fire a missile, just destroy it when it leaves his hands. When he does a beam that fires across the room, just duck.
Squid Adler
All the annoying aspects of X4 Jet Stingray's level in half the distance!
Adler isn't outright terrible on first encounter, but use this opportunity to practice against him taking as few hits as possible because his Boss Rush form means spending forever whittling him down while you die in 8 hits, less if he rams into you.
Start out by putting in as many fully charged shots as you can while hopping over his shots AND their residuals, then try to bait him into not moving forward to halfscreen as much as he would otherwise. After you've shaved off enough life, then the fight opens up to the entire room. The block in the middle is your friend. Use it to shield yourself and put less residual shots on the walls, where you'll be spending much of your time. Every so often he'll go to the floor and electrify it, but it doesn't last terribly long so don't let it hinder your mobility too much. When he starts getting low on life he'll begin going to either the floor or one wall and fire off about 5-7 shots perpendicularly. You want him to do this from the wall so you can use the block to take some of them while also being able to fall to the ground to dodge.
Start out by putting in as many fully charged shots as you can while hopping over his shots AND their residuals, then try to bait him into not moving forward to halfscreen as much as he would otherwise. After you've shaved off enough life, then the fight opens up to the entire room. The block in the middle is your friend. Use it to shield yourself and put less residual shots on the walls, where you'll be spending much of your time. Every so often he'll go to the floor and electrify it, but it doesn't last terribly long so don't let it hinder your mobility too much. When he starts getting low on life he'll begin going to either the floor or one wall and fire off about 5-7 shots perpendicularly. You want him to do this from the wall so you can use the block to take some of them while also being able to fall to the ground to dodge.
Virus Stage 1 - Shadow Devil
OH. MY. GOD.
Quick Man's lasers were even harder than I remembered.
The second to last section of this level is the most brutal shit ever. Be sure to dash jump in arcs so you have a head start on the lasers when you reach their elevation. Also be sure to grab the very bottom corner of walls to do the same. When on the same elevation as a laser, dash jumping is counter productive. A lot of this is just going to have to be committed to muscle memory so it's going to take practice regardless. This section goes on and on, too. It's not over until you reach a wide open room and the lasers start being mounted vertically instead of horizontally.
So, Shadow Devil...
Read from right column to left column:
4 2 4 4 | 4 1 3 3 | 3 4 4 4
3 3 3 3 | 2 4 1 2 | 2 3 3 2
2 4 2 2 | 3 3 4 4 | 1 2 1 1
1 1 1 1 | 1 2 2 1 | 4 1 2 3
Basically you'll be crouching then short hopping forward over the bottom block.
When he gets to low health, he'll start stopping midway then fire blocks back and forth across the screen. Unfortunately, I haven't found a place that has the pattern for this yet, and it can easily take you from near-full to near-death.
He'll also start becoming a skull tank instead of his usual form and you'll have to wall dashjump over him and wait for his eye to appear.
So, Shadow Devil...
Read from right column to left column:
4 2 4 4 | 4 1 3 3 | 3 4 4 4
3 3 3 3 | 2 4 1 2 | 2 3 3 2
2 4 2 2 | 3 3 4 4 | 1 2 1 1
1 1 1 1 | 1 2 2 1 | 4 1 2 3
Basically you'll be crouching then short hopping forward over the bottom block.
When he gets to low health, he'll start stopping midway then fire blocks back and forth across the screen. Unfortunately, I haven't found a place that has the pattern for this yet, and it can easily take you from near-full to near-death.
He'll also start becoming a skull tank instead of his usual form and you'll have to wall dashjump over him and wait for his eye to appear.
Virus Stage 2 - Rangda Bangda 2
Haven't gotten here yet.
Virus Stage 3 - Zero
Haven't gotten here yet.
Virus Stage 4 - Boss Rush, Sigma
SCREEN HIGH LIFE BARS
Shadow Hog
Member
I forgot that X5 added ducking.
...
Don't mind me, I'll just be sitting here in the corner sobbing about the mess I got myself into.
HiddenWings
Member
It's probably going to ruin someone's childhood to hear me say this, but the shadow devil's screen-crossing pattern can be completely ignored by hanging out in one of the upper corners, although this leaves you in a worse position to hit back when it ends.
If the eye can shoot back then there's not much point to doing this. Only working with starting health bar and no subtanks here.
I don't like X5 simply because a bunch of major bosses have attacks where you need to have utterly precise positioning to dodge these big screen-covering attacks. And you only get a quarter of a second to figure out where you need to be, too. It is like a bullet hell shooter without the advantage of the small hitbox.
Of course, I was playing on Maniac difficulty when I last played. I don't really know what it changes, but I think it only affects how much damage you take. That is what I find strange about X5, though: it oscillates wildly between very easy and nearly impossible. Even on Maniac difficulty, I could walk over most bosses without too much trouble if I was using the right armor and weapons. Yet even on lower difficulties, trying to use sub-optimal armor sets can get you annihilated.
Of course, I was playing on Maniac difficulty when I last played. I don't really know what it changes, but I think it only affects how much damage you take. That is what I find strange about X5, though: it oscillates wildly between very easy and nearly impossible. Even on Maniac difficulty, I could walk over most bosses without too much trouble if I was using the right armor and weapons. Yet even on lower difficulties, trying to use sub-optimal armor sets can get you annihilated.
Personally I hated that piece of shit Nightmare Mother
First time I threw a controller iirc
This is all with Unarmored X, X-Buster only, no life upgrades, no sub tanks, and no parts. It's a different game.
For example, Duff McWhalen's stage becomes incredibly easy with the plasma shot, but I'm not using that. I played Zero in the intro stage.
I tried doing X6 barebones, started on the top left going clockwise, and quit on Infinity Mijinion because I couldn't figure out how to not trade hits.
Um, this thread isn't entirely devoted to talking about you and Noi's barebones runs. I just felt like talking about X5 since it was the topic of discussion and I was playing through it recently. I am aware of how your barebones runs work. But I think it is fine talking about these games in a more general sense in this thread as well.
Really, what I said was supporting the idea that a barebones run of X5 is nightmare, so I am a little uncertain why you are calling out what I posted.
Sorry, in context it read like I was being responded to but not being understood or taken seriously. It's not my intent to monopolize the thread either, as I'm replaying these games to refresh my memory so I can be of help to Noi when he eventually does the same.
It's okay.
All the talk about barebones runs has made me a little curious. I might take a crack at my own barebone run of X4 sooner or later. That or I might try a no-damage run of some stages in X1.
I went ahead and actually did a barebones X run of Mega Man X4 today. With some persistence, I managed to beat everything short of Sigma's final form. I learned a whole lot about fighting some of those bosses I didn't really know before, even though X4 is my most played and favorite Mega Man game. It was fun. I doubt I will seriously attempt Sigma's final form, since I have only managed to beat that monstrosity a few times, even with armor and sub-tanks.
Storm Owl, Cyber Peacock, and Split Mushroom are easily the worst non-final bosses in that game. I just couldn't figure out how to deal with them consistently. As a result, I had to resort to farming lives in order to get past the boss rush, which grates on me a little. It feels like it goes against the spirit of a minimalist challenge.
I have no plans to try this kind of thing on X5 of X6 though. That is just too daunting for me.
Storm Owl, Cyber Peacock, and Split Mushroom are easily the worst non-final bosses in that game. I just couldn't figure out how to deal with them consistently. As a result, I had to resort to farming lives in order to get past the boss rush, which grates on me a little. It feels like it goes against the spirit of a minimalist challenge.
I have no plans to try this kind of thing on X5 of X6 though. That is just too daunting for me.
Yup, and that's really the whole point. It reintroduces challenge to the game, and forces you to learn it at a deeper level. For me it started with X1, a game I loved to death but could beat getting 100% in an hour while basically asleep.
Cyber Peacock
is all about getting as much damage as possible while he's teleporting. Just walk back and forth, dash away about the same time he'll try to teleport on top of you, then quickly turn back and land a shot. If you do this well enough then you don't have to worry about the homing missiles at all.
Storm Owl I talked about in my notes a while back.
Farming for lives in X1-4 isn't discouraged at all, and X5 gives you effectively infinite lives.
While the challenge was fun, part of why I enjoy Mega Man games is using all of the cool weapons and armor abilities. Finding armor capsules, figuring out which boss weapons are good for trouncing normal enemies, and so forth is part of the appeal for me. I don't think I will ever give that up. But it is fun taking on a self-imposed challenge every now and then. I will probably be focusing my Mega Man efforts on the Zero and ZX series though. I haven't replayed some of those as recently.
Considering this was a self-imposed challenge in the first place, I still feel like it was cheating. Relying on farming extra lives just reveals that I have more room to improve.
So, other than barebones challenges, no-damage challenges, or high score challenges, is there anything else to try? Most Mega Man games lack a dedicated time attack mode, so that is hard to do. Too bad "no-buster, boss weapons only" isn't practical.
You still have to actually beat the bosses, and lives just keep you from redoing the stage.
That's actually an interesting idea. If you run out of energy in a level then you have to take the game over.
So, uh, issue #18 is fantastic. It was going to be emotionally resonant anyway just on account of the subject matter, but the sharp writing and solid pacing really sell it, especially in conjunction with #17.
Plus Ian slipped in a couple big fanservicy bits and a Space Oddity reference, so that was neat too.
Highly recommended reading.
Plus Ian slipped in a couple big fanservicy bits and a Space Oddity reference, so that was neat too.
Highly recommended reading.
I didn't found anything on this thread and I suppose this goes here.
Here's the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c8cr78EKLA&feature=youtu.be
The animation is actually not that bad and I liked the music so I thought of sharing this.
It seems like everyone do better things with Megaman than Capcom these days.
Here's the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c8cr78EKLA&feature=youtu.be
The animation is actually not that bad and I liked the music so I thought of sharing this.
It seems like everyone do better things with Megaman than Capcom these days.
Shadowman16
Member
I really like how they are setting up for Megaman 3's story arc in the comics. Especially as they are also incorporating
in the storyline as well which has been done really well so far in my opinion.
It does make me wonder how the end of the arc will go though as
Super Adventure Rockman
It does make me wonder how the end of the arc will go though as
in Super Adventure Rockman you don't actually fight Wily at all, just the New Yellow Devil which I'm guessing will show up in the story arc and replace the MM3 Yellow Devil battle. At the same time though I can't see them not using the Gamma Wily mech from the end of MM3.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Who were the voice actors in Megaman X4 anyway?
According to IMDb:
Ruth Shiraishi...X (voice)
Wayne Doster...Zero (voice)
Mark Hagan...General (voice)
Matthew Meersbergen...Colonel (voice)
Michelle Gazepis...Iris (voice)
Charlie Fontana...Sigma (voice)
You can find the rest here.
I am pretty sure many of them also did voice roles in Mega Man 8.
Edit: Most of them apparently have no or little voice-acting or acting work listed outside of Mega Man 8 and X4. However, a few also did some voice-acting work on Shenmue II.
Edit 2: Not surprisingly, the Japanese voice actors for Mega Man 8 and X4 have had a lot more roles over the years. Apparently the Japanese voice actor for Doctor Wily was also the voice actor for Kami from DBZ and is the Japanese Colonel Campbell in MGS.
Shadow Hog
Member
Well, that explains why X sounded like a woman.
Kane Zakharov
Banned
Does anyone here prefer playing with a keyboard? I always found it very frustrating to play these kind of games with controller.
SolarKnight
Member
Well, I was pretty much born and raised on keyboard for videogames. I like using controllers too, but sometimes I prefer using my keyboard.
I'm fine with keyboard but gamepad is better.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
The lack of MegaMan "tidbits" in
is saddening 
Wreck it Ralph
The lack of MegaMan "tidbits" inis saddeningWreck it Ralph
Apparently Wily was gonna be in but was removed?
Shadow Hog
Member
Yeah, replaced with M. Bison.
Which is funny, since Bison's the one who first brings up
. That could've been Wily's big line :<
Which is funny, since Bison's the one who first brings up
"going Turbo"
SolarKnight
Member
Actually, he was next to Bowser, so either they simply removed him, or Noob Saibot replaced him.
That is a shame.
Shadow Hog
Member
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Saw this the other day, but it freaked me out so bad I couldn't bring myself to post it ;p
Rather than double-post: According to a Nintendo Power interview, Capcom may be trying to get Mega Man 1-6 released on the NA VC.
Edit: Didn't know "G" Nintendo was a banned site, sorry.
Nocturnowl
Member
Oh poor old Light's going to suffer this problem again when he adds the charge ability.
SolarKnight
Member
Oh my god that's fucking brilliant.
Tizoc
Member
Fudge forgot to write about 17 and 18. IMO Protoman's backstory would've worked better as an annual issue instead of being 2 issues, but yeah it's fantastic
I liked that he was prepared to die with a smile on his face accepting that even his life was short he lived it to the fullest and helped people when he can
Welp, need to go grab #19 now.
Never thought of the boots actually being his feet, but I suppose it makes sense.
Meta gags are basically Ian Flynn's trademark. The latest Sonic issue has a beautiful physics-related one that's going to go completely over the heads of the series' target demographic, but it makes me grin like an idiot.
Tizoc
Member
Remind me what the meta gag is in that Sonic issue (242 right?) is please?
Robotnik's gloating about the trap he installed on the hurdles track. Just as Amy, Blaze, and Rouge are about to reach the first set, they pop up and turn into teleportation gates. The three are going too fast to stop in time and all visibly slide into the portals, prompting Robotnik to quip "Momentum-based physics can be a bad thing after all!"