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Megaman Legacy Collection |OT| One "Mighty" Collection

G

georgetheplushie

Member
BONKERS said:
So the game plays sound effects as audio files (And seems to take them from a public source rather than sampling it from the real thing themselves)? Does that mean the music isn't interrupted either?
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I think you're misinterpreting what's going on here. The sound effect files they found were for front-end stuff like the main menu. The sound file the tweet is referencing being sourced from a website (while kind of dumb that it's not sourced directly from a game), is only played in the challenges mode when you're warped from one segment to the next. Any gameplay audio is sourced directly from the embedded ROMs and parsed through the Eclipse Engine.

After finishing Mega Man 1, I'd really rather just play through the rest on my carts but Steam achievements will probably get me to finish 2-6 here. I also never realized how broken Fire Storm is; you can pretty much steamroll through the game with just that and Thunder Beam.
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Tizoc said:
The first area of Elecman's stage is annoyingly designed I do have to say, you can stun the moving enemies with a well timed shot, but for the jump you're likely gonna need to do it before walking to the very edge of the ledge.
Although TBH, I never cared for OG Megaman 1, give me Powered-up any day @_@
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You have to fuck m up with these:
120px-MM1_Rolling_Cutter_8-bit.png
 
Lord British

Lord British

Member
Having so much fun with the Legacy Collection. I absolutely love it. What a brilliant piece of software! Just beat Mega Man 2 last night, felt absolutely awesome.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
RadarScope1 said:
You've played these games before, right? The way they're programmed doesn't lend itself to reconfiguring the screen size. Enemy behavior and spawn (and respawn) points are often triggered by being just on/off screen. It would really break the game in these instances, or at the very least require significant changes to the way they work, play and feel. It's quite different than Sonic in that way.
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no it isn't, sonic has the exact same limitations and design considerations. That's the entire reason tax remade the game - so they didn't have to consider those limitations. what you are describing is simply a quirk in how these types of old systems handled object loading. what is the point of porting these games rather than emulating them if you're not going to improve the experience?

dark10x said:
There has to be some horizontal stretching regardless if you want the proper aspect ration.
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not the way these games are made. that's not true. see sonic cd.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
dark10x said:
That is incorrect. NES games run at 256x224. While the PPU outputs 256x240. The aspect ratio is 8:7. The image is stretched to 4:3 resulting in non-square pixels. This was not a problem for CRTs, but with fixed pixel displays, these resolutions were an issue.

Sonic CD, like most Genesis games, was actually 320x224 (output at 320x240). When displaying graphics using square pixels, the games will look correct as they were made for this higher resolution. The narrow resolution of NES and SNES appears narrow when displayed using square pixels. So if you scale the native 256x224 image to a fixed pixel display using square pixels evening scaled, the games will be 8:7 and appeared too narrow.

This is also why games developed for Genesis and ported to SNES often looked wrong. Sprites made for 320 pixels would appear fatter or horizontally stretched on SNES since they had fewer pixels to work with. They just mapped the original sprites over to the SNES resolution.

So, yeah, Sonic CD is a bad example as it doesn't have the same limitations.

They would need to remake the sprites and tiles in Mega Man to solve this problem.
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subpixel resolutions, how do they work? hurr hurr

the game is running at a resolution much lower than any native display. they don't need to stretch at all, because they can devote multiple native resolution pixels to a non-square shaped pixel. there is no need to stretch to maintain aspect ratio, not with a modern display and not with the resolutions they are running at.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
dark10x said:
No shit. What you're talking about I'm still calling scaling.
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it's not at all what we are talking about, however. In your rush to be pedantic, you have missed the point. Yes, the image needs to be scaled in order to not appear as a 2" x 2" square in the corner of the screen. that much is obvious. it needs a linear scale.

it does not, however, need to be stretched to maintain its aspect ratio.
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
PSA: for any newcomers, DON'T play Mega Man 1 as your first game. It's a pretty terribly designed game in comparison with every other one in the series. Or if you really want to play it, expect a lot of jank and very poor level and boss design.
 
D

discoalucard

i am a butthurt babby that can only drool in wonder at shiney objects
Krejlooc said:
it's not at all what we are talking about, however. In your rush to be pedantic, you have missed the point. Yes, the image needs to be scaled in order to not appear as a 2" x 2" square in the corner of the screen. that much is obvious. it needs a linear scale.

it does not, however, need to be stretched to maintain its aspect ratio.
Click to expand...

My math might be completely off on this, but the minimal resolution you'd be able to do this properly looks to be 1280x960. This should be trivial on PC platforms and shouldn't be a problem on HD platforms as long as they're running in 1080p, but what if they're running in 720p? What about the 3DS port, when that comes out? There has to be some level of filtering/stretching on those, even if it's light, like the way that PS1 games are scaled to work on the PSP/Vita.

I haven't played the MM Legacy Collection but I'm curious to see how they handled it. The assorted Virtual Consoles all seem to stretch/filter, and other collections for the Wii have other visual aberrations, though those only ran at 480p at max. Capcom couldn't even get MM9 and 10 to look correct, especially on HD platforms where it's a sludgy mess. The only one that was really satisfactory to me were the M2 Sega collections, which gave you the option to use square pixels anyway and completely sidestep the issue, even if the aspect ratio might be off.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
EatinOlives said:
PSA: for any newcomers, DON'T play Mega Man 1 as your first game. It's a pretty terribly designed game in comparison with every other one in the series. Or if you really want to play it, expect a lot of jank and very poor level and boss design.
Click to expand...


Very poor level design feels like an overstatement. It is OK, some of the enemies are not as refined as they are later, but overall I think Megaman 1 is OK.
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
discoalucard said:
My math might be completely off on this, but the minimal resolution you'd be able to do this properly looks to be 1280x960. This should be trivial on PC platforms and shouldn't be a problem on HD platforms as long as they're running in 1080p, but what if they're running in 720p? What about the 3DS port, when that comes out? There has to be some level of filtering/stretching on those, even if it's light, like the way that PS1 games are scaled to work on the PSP/Vita.

I haven't played the MM Legacy Collection but I'm curious to see how they handled it. The assorted Virtual Consoles all seem to stretch/filter, and other collections for the Wii have other visual aberrations, though those only ran at 480p at max. Capcom couldn't even get MM9 and 10 to look correct, especially on HD platforms where it's a sludgy mess. The only one that was really satisfactory to me were the M2 Sega collections, which gave you the option to use square pixels anyway and completely sidestep the issue, even if the aspect ratio might be off.
Click to expand...

Well, back in the day Capcom cancelled Mega Man Mania for the GBA because they "lost the source code." So you really can't expect them to care about their history that much.
 
StAidan

StAidan

Member
Yeah, I don't think Mega Man 1 was really a victim of poor level design as much as the general jank you mention, which was definitely a serious problem. Hit detection and movement both just feel way off compared to the sequels, not to mention that awful bug that makes you fall through certain moving platforms if you land on them while taking damage.
 
B

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Yaboosh said:
Very poor level design feels like an overstatement. It is OK, some of the enemies are not as refined as they are later, but overall I think Megaman 1 is OK.
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Agreed, MM1 isn't going to be anyone's favorite from this collection, some of the enemies/obstacles can be a bit of a pain to deal with, but the core design and layouts aren't that problematic to deal with(Devil a major exception). There are actually some clever stage traps and progression forks here and there that are further improved in later titles.

The most noticeable issue with MM1 stems from technical flaws. Severe slowdown, input delay, and some janky interactions can feel quite poor compared to further entries. Jumping between MM1 and most other entries shows how night and day the difference is when considering the core act of jumping, shooting, and even just scrolling the screen with multiple enemy appearances. Some mistimed reaction deaths do feel entirely related to these technical flaws.
 
S

Shadowman16

Member
Finally managed to beat the MM2 boss rush challenge with a gold metal rating. I never paid attention to glitches before on MM2 but being able to skip Air Man's boss battle was a huge help to clearing the challenge quick, and without taking damage! Now onto the MM3 boss rush mode...
 
A

AlphaProspector

Member
I used to be SCARED of the moving platforms of Guts Man stage as a kid. I always kept thinking "I'll screw up, those platforms are terrible". Then I found the M weapon on Elec Man stage by destroying some blocks and just cheesed Guts Man platforms with that.

I also greatly dislike that after jumping you could still slide a bit forward on certain platforms and on Ice Man stage it can quickly become a nightmare.

Oh, and I had no idea about the pause glitch as a kid. Defeating Yellow Devil was a NIGHTMARE without it, and caps doesn't make it any justice. I still can't figure out how I did it back then.

Overall, I'm kind of reviving my childhood while playing this.

P.S.: Screw the laser stage of Mega Man 2... I almost destroyed my pad! (edit: Oh, you could also cheese this with Flash Man weapon, lol, I had no idea of that either, damn... It's like I'm rediscovering everything.)
 
A

AlphaProspector

Member
Isomac said:
I beat the yellow devil on my second try. It uses the same pattern over and over. Learn it and it's easy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I did that eventually. But I meant that it caused me problems as a kid. I can't remember how many Game Overs I got back then while trying to beat that mofo.
 
I

Isomac

Member
AlphaProspector said:
Yeah, I did that eventually. But I meant that it caused me problems as a kid. I can't remember how many Game Overs I got back then while trying to beat that mofo.
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Hahah, yeah. I was surprised how easy it was now. I guess as kid I didn't have as much patience. I just wanted to jump and shoot all the time.
 
sloppyjoe_gamer

sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
Played through 90% of Mega Man 1 and not a drop of input lag...feels great and spot on just like i expect. PS4 version.

With so many saying its there and so many saying it isnt, has Digital Eclipse commented on it?

I had a couple audio pop noises but they only lasted a second and only happened like twice in my hours of play so far. My guess is its easily patchable.
 
R

RadarScope1

Member
Krejlooc said:
no it isn't, sonic has the exact same limitations and design considerations. That's the entire reason tax remade the game - so they didn't have to consider those limitations. what you are describing is simply a quirk in how these types of old systems handled object loading. what is the point of porting these games rather than emulating them if you're not going to improve the experience?
Click to expand...

How would the respawns just off screen work then? Seems like they would have to program some kind of puff of smoke or other animation, or just have them reappear out of nowhere which would look really dumb. I haven't played the Taxman port - how was it handled there?

As for "the point" - they've said it's to present them in their original state. I can think of some options that I might have added but 16:9 is wholly unnecessary in my opinion.
 
goldenpp72

goldenpp72

Member
Curious about challenge mode, can you die and still get gold or is that instantly a non gold? Was curious if only time counted.
 
S

Shadowman16

Member
goldenpp72 said:
Curious about challenge mode, can you die and still get gold or is that instantly a non gold? Was curious if only time counted.
Click to expand...

Depends on the challenge. I can confirm on Megaman 3 Megamix you can die and still get the gold. On my initial run I died against Gemini Man, then went on to beat him the second time round and still got the gold. It seems purely time based in relation to getting the gold.
 
C

cyba89

Member
I never played these games a lot in my childhood and this collection is the first time I complete all these games in order. Loved playing through MM2 (huge step up from the first) and I'm at MM3 right now, but boy these slowdowns get on my nerves sometimes. I'm currently stuck at snake man and can say my struggles are like 70% because of these slowdowns. They get pretty extreme sometimes and mess up my timing big. (I know I'm problably super LTTP with these complaints :p)
I would take playability over authenticity any day here.

If I wanted to have the complete authentic experience I would play these games on a NES on a CRT tv with a NES Pad in my hands.
 
A

AgentOtaku

Member
cyba89 said:
I never played these games a lot in my childhood and this collection is the first time I complete all these games in order. Loved playing through MM2 (huge step up from the first) and I'm at MM3 right now, but boy these slowdowns get on my nerves sometimes. I'm currently stuck at snake man and can say my struggles are like 70% because of these slowdowns. They get pretty extreme sometimes and mess up my timing big. (I know I'm problably super LTTP with these complaints :p)
I would take playability over authenticity any day here.

If I wanted to have the complete authentic experience I would play these games on a NES on a CRT tv with a NES Pad in my hands.
Click to expand...

lol, I was JUST going through the EXACT same thing

The slowdowns in MM3 are kinda bullshit and never realized how badly and often they happen. They literally effect the gameplay as with say, Snake Man, where the slowdown will randomly kick in and fuck up your reaction timing.

I understand making this as authentic as possible lol, but I wouldn't have complained if they pulled a Mega Man X Collection and made it port perfect AND removed the slowdown. Same thing with Capcom Classic Collection version of Super Ghouls n Ghosts.
 
A

AEREC

Member
cyba89 said:
I never played these games a lot in my childhood and this collection is the first time I complete all these games in order. Loved playing through MM2 (huge step up from the first) and I'm at MM3 right now, but boy these slowdowns get on my nerves sometimes. I'm currently stuck at snake man and can say my struggles are like 70% because of these slowdowns. They get pretty extreme sometimes and mess up my timing big. (I know I'm problably super LTTP with these complaints :p)
I would take playability over authenticity any day here.

If I wanted to have the complete authentic experience I would play these games on a NES on a CRT tv with a NES Pad in my hands.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat, although I have fond memories of MM2, Ive never played the others or at least not as much.

I just don't remember the slowdown being this bad...I mean this shot in a modern 2d platformer would be unforgiveable.

I really want a smooth experience over an authentic one, and I thought that's what this collection was going to be.
 
A

Alex_Mexico

Member
I can't find a thread about today's Mighty No. 9 big update. Has no one done it yet? I'm speculating the positive reaction to this MM Legacy Collection might've pushed them to do this big update.
 
L

leroidys

Member
AEREC said:
I'm in the same boat, although I have fond memories of MM2, Ive never played the others or at least not as much.

I just don't remember the slowdown being this bad...I mean this shot in a modern 2d platformer would be unforgiveable.

I really want a smooth experience over an authentic one, and I thought that's what this collection was going to be.
Click to expand...

They were completely up front about this though, so it was unreasonable to expect that. Not saying that I disagree with you necessarily though.

And if you think the slowdown in the NES games is bad, you should(n't) check out the GB games!
 
T

ThisOne

Member
It feels good to beat a level on your very first try. Fire Man on Mega Man 1 is down. Now onto Dr. Wily. Does the Yellow Devil have any weaknesses to weapons?
 
C

checkeredknight

Member
The slowdown and flickering was so bad during the Yellow Devil MK2 fight for me in Mega Man 3, I kept dying and couldn't see what was hitting me. These games are really bad performance-wise.

With that said, this collection is nice. I only played MM1, MM2, MM9 and MM10 before. I finished 1, 2 and 3 in this collection so far, and began 4. They improved these games slightly with each new version, but the jump between 1 and 2 was pretty noticeable.

I'm not a fan of the first game. It's extremely unforgiving, the checkpoints are a pain and without the pause trick I'd never have beat Yellow Devil in a million years. Stage enemies mostly just rush at you, they're super annoying.

It's amazing how much my opinion changes with 2, though. I love that game so much - better stages, better music, better enemies - I prefer everything that 2 does over that of 1.

3 was also really good. For a NES game, it was really long. Lots of good music and enjoyable platforming. Switching weapons was easier and the cutscenes were nice, albeit basic.

So far, this collection has been worth the money. I wish they had included 7, 8, 9 and 10 as well. Hell, I would have paid a few quid more for them. But oh well.
 
G

Gipsy Danger

Member
Alex_Mexico said:
Isn't the PS4 one the agreed upon superior for 2D games? That spectacular Dpad and its positioning triumphs over the XB1 respectable but awkwardly placed Dpad.
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The agreed upon superior controller is whichever one you prefer. I don't really see how either is objectively better for 2D platforming.
 
R

RadarScope1

Member
leroidys said:
They were completely up front about this though, so it was unreasonable to expect that. Not saying that I disagree with you necessarily though.

And if you think the slowdown in the NES games is bad, you should(n't) check out the GB games!
Click to expand...

Yeah, there was no bait and switch here. They've been clear all along.
 
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