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[Antiochus]

http://in.reuters.com/article/germany-migrants-divisions-idINL8N1670R3

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Sunday defended her open-door policy for migrants, rejecting any limit on the number of refugees allowed into her country despite divisions within her government.

Merkel said there was no 'Plan B' for her aim of reducing the flow of migrants through cooperation with Turkey, efforts she said could unravel were Germany to cap the number of refugees it accepts.

"Sometimes, I also despair. Some things go too slow. There are many conflicting interests in Europe," Merkel told state broadcaster ARD. "But it is my damn duty to do everything I can so that Europe finds a collective way."

Merkel spelled out her motivation to keep Germany's borders open without limits on refugees, a goal many in her own country and coalition government openly disagree with.

"There is so much violence and hardship on our doorstep," she said. "What's right for Germany in the long term? There, I think it is to keep Europe together and to show humanity."

Merkel, once highly popular, has seen her ratings plummet because of her handling of the migrants issue. The majority of those surveyed by public broadcaster ARD earlier in February were dissatisfied with her.

Germany attracted 1.1 million asylum seekers last year, leading to calls from across the political spectrum for a change in its handling of refugees coming to Europe to escape war and poverty in Syria, Afghanistan and elsewher

She has warned about the consequences for Europe of border closure. But a poor showing by the Christian Democrats in state elections in March would pressure her to reverse course.

"The international financial crisis was a big challenge. We managed that well. The euro crisis was a huge challenge," said Merkel.

"This crisis is different because people are coming to us, people with a different cultural background ... where people ask what is this doing to our country."

She said, however, that she saw nothing that would prompt her to change course. Commenting on her plan, Merkel, a trained scientist, said: "It's all well thought through. It's logical."

Frau Merkel, the facts on the ground, as they say, severely beg to differ regarding your perspective.

1.1 million last year, easily another 1 million potential influx this year. How many more refugees and other sundry asylum seekers/economic migrants hanger on's can Germany take?

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

It concerns me when leaders begin enacting policies based on personal beliefs despite opposition from other democratically elected officials.

 

[nib95]

It concerns me when leaders begin enacting policies based on personal beliefs despite opposition from other democratically elected officials.

Isn't that all politics in every country in a nutshell?

 

[gutter_trash]

Merkel is being irresponsible

she is angering countries in the East who are not equipped to deal with such an influx of travelers passing through

Greece is so fucked.

I don't get what's her end game

Canada does it right. / Germany does it wrong

 

[TheRedSnifit]

This can only end well.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

It concerns me when leaders begin enacting policies based on personal beliefs despite opposition from other democratically elected officials.

*Politician does morally right thing* "Wow, what a fucking bitch for not listening to other opinions"

*Politician flip flops on position after listening to others* "Wow, what a fucking bitch for betraying her principles!"

... Politicians really can't win sometimes.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Isn't that all politics in every country in a nutshell?

No it isn't. A politician is expected to represent the people that voted for them while at the same time balancing that with what's good for the nation as a whole. If you lose the support of the people that voted for you then the local politicians that represent them are unlikely to back you.

Also, I don't like it when politicians become concerned with legacy as that brings personal ego into their decision making process.

 

[orochi91]

Bravo, Chancellor Merkel.

I hope she stays the course; those refugees need all the help they can get, especially since this civil war will persist for the foreseeable future.

*Politician does morally right thing* "Wow, what a fucking bitch for not listening to other opinions"

*Politician flip flops on position after listening to others* "Wow, what a fucking bitch for betraying her principles!"

... Politicians really can't win sometimes.

Amen.

 

[Aztechnology]

http://in.reuters.com/article/germany-migrants-divisions-idINL8N1670R3





Frau Merkel, the facts on the ground, as they say, severely beg to differ regarding your perspective.

1.1 million last year, easily another 1 million potential influx this year. How many more refugees and other sundry asylum seekers/economic migrants hanger on's can Germany take?

Is Merkel trying to make the German people become more nationalistic and xenophobic? Because she's succeeding.

 

[Espada]

Man, just how long is she going to maintain that position? Germany's going to have huge issues if the # of refugees from impoverished and wartorn nations matches what we saw last year.

There has to be a better way.

 

[orochi91]

Is Merkel trying to make the German people become more nationalistic and xenophobic? Because she's succeeding.

That says more about some of those German people than her, to be honest.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

*Politician does morally right thing* "Wow, what a fucking bitch for not listening to other opinions"

*Politician flip flops on position after listening to others* "Wow, what a fucking bitch for betraying her principles!"

... Politicians really can't win sometimes.

It isn't about personal ego. If you start enacting policies based entirely on what you, one individual think, then that leads down a slippery slope.

 

[DrM]

Is Merkel trying to make the German people become more nationalistic and xenophobic? Because she's succeeding.

Not only German people, this goes for all countries on migrant trail

 

[orochi91]

Man, just how long is she going to maintain that position? Germany's going to have huge issues if the # of refugees from impoverished and wartorn nations matches what we saw last year.

Get used to it.

The coming decades will witness more wars and conflict, especially once global warming wreaks havoc across Africa and Asia.

Europe will be inundated with more refugees than ever.

 

[Milly Osworth]

In a few years a lot of those refugees wont be able to get jobs, wont speak German and refugee commits crime X headlines will happen regularly. That will cause so much polarization.

 

[Uzzy]

Merkel is being irresponsible

she is angering countries in the East who are not equipped to deal with such an influx of travelers passing through

Greece is so fucked.

I don't get what's her end game

Canada does it right. / Germany does it wrong

Maybe it's to try and force EU countries to accept an EU solution to the problem? Doubt it'll work though, a lot of Eastern European and Balkan states are already working on a multilateral solution, namely quarantining Greece. Which is perfectly positioned to deal with hundreds of thousands of migrants sitting in their country.

 

[ElTorro]

Greece is so fucked.

Greece will be even more fucked if the rest of Europe decides to ignore the problem and leave everything in Greece's hands.

Get used to it.

The coming decades will witness more wars and conflict, especially once global warming wreaks havoc across Africa and Asia.

Europe will be inundated with more refugees than ever.

That's what actually concerns me. This issue will only get worse over the next decades. And just closing the borders and stating that masses of displaced people running around in Europe is not our problem won't be a sustainable long-term solution.

 

[AzureSky]

In a few years a lot of those refugees wont be able to get jobs, wont speak German and refugee commits crime X headlines will happen regularly. That will cause so much polarization.

thats right, it's better to not try at all and just build a few more walls. Cheaper too.

Yes, i am worried about inviting that many people with a different cultural background (and most of them are probably not willing to adapt), but what is the alternative? Shooting them?

Merkel is doing pretty much what would be expected of her if someone were asked before this clusterf*ck started. But now it's actually happening and people show what they truly want.

 

[TatteredHat]

If Germany won't do it, then other countries will just do it without them. Far-right anti-immigration parties throughout the EU are surging in popularity on the wave created by Merkel's irresponsible behaviour.

 

[Henkka]

Get used to it.

The coming decades will witness more wars and conflict, especially once global warming wreaks havoc across Africa and Asia.

Europe will be inundated with more refugees than ever.

Europeans will vote in far-right nationalist parties before they "get used to it". Not saying that's right, but it's probably what's going to happen.

 

[ElTorro]

Yes, i am worried about inviting that many people with a different cultural background (and most of them are probably not willing to adapt), but what is the alternative? Shooting them?

That's pretty much where I stand. I am hesitant to say that "most" people won't be willing to adapt. I think we can do a better job with integrating legitimate refugees and filtering out legitimate refugees. At the same time, I am annoyed when I hear others downplay the scope of the integration challenge that we are facing here.

But the only other alternative that I can think of is to increase our military engagement in the regions these people are being displaced from and occupy/pacify those unsafe territories; in which case we will be there for a long time and likely produce a cluster fuck of more issues.

 

[Pennywise]

That's what actually concerns me. This issue will only get worse over the next decades. And just closing the borders and stating that masses of displaced people running around in Europe is not our problem won't be a sustainable long-term solution.

Which is laughable considering how easy it is to get into the majority of countries in Europe.
People will take different paths through the woods or on open fields where nobody is watching.
This will sadly be vastly more dangerous for them, luckily spring is approaching.

 

[Kayo-kun]

It's good. Germany should take responsibility and take in more refugees like they said they would. A country for example such as Turkey which is smaller has taken in more than 3 million refugees now.

Germany was the country that wanted to help the refugees the most in Europe, so it should be the go-to place for everyone arriving to the continent.

 

[Pezking]

That says more about some of those German people than her, to be honest.

Exactly. Those are people who were never really fond of foreigners in the first place. It's not like more people are suddenly becoming racist and xenophobic. Racists are just becoming more vocal about it.

And no: Being critical about Merkel's handling of the refugee crisis does not automatically make you a racist. You're just a racist if your reasons for being against it are racist ones.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Maybe it's to try and force EU countries to accept an EU solution to the problem? Doubt it'll work though, a lot of Eastern European and Balkan states are already working on a multilateral solution, namely quarantining Greece. Which is perfectly positioned to deal with hundreds of thousands of migrants sitting in their country.

There was a conference on the refugee crisis in Vienna recently. Greece wasn't even invited.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Not only German people, this goes for all countries on migrant trail

Is Merkel trying to make the German people become more nationalistic and xenophobic? Because she's succeeding.

Good ol western civilisation in a nutshell though, where these people pretend to be civil and nice (and superior due to that) until shit hits the fan.

 

[Kronik]

Take care of your women, GermanGAF!

 

[BennyBlanco]

Good ol western civilisation in a nutshell though, where these people pretend to be civil and nice (and superior due to that) until shit hits the fan.

Germany's infrastructure can only take so many new people. It's not being uncivilized to recognize the limits of how many displaced people you can take take in.

 

[Pennywise]

Good ol western civilisation in a nutshell though, where these people pretend to be civil and nice (and superior due to that) until shit hits the fan.

Like Pezking said, those people already made up their mind before, they become just more vocal and use this as justification.
Which isn't just part of western civilisations, but civilisations in general.

Take care of your women, GermanGAF!

As long as you take take of the few brain cells you have left.

 

[Uzzy]

There was a conference on the refugee crisis in Vienna recently. Greece wasn't even invited.

Yeah, they're so fucked. The treatment of Greece by other EU countries these past few years has left me really down on the entire European project.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

History will look back very favourably on Merkel.

She might sacrifice her own political fortunes for it, but she and her government are helping a million plus people who needed the help badly. She's placed Germany unequivocably as part of, if not the, leading country of the EU. And there's a good economic case, too - lots of young Arab men who have a very good reason to appreciate Germany, learn the lingo and aid in growing the economy in the future, should they choose to remain when their own nation's issues are resolved.

I'd also ask the naysayers: what should Merkel be doing instead? Limiting numbers? Barricading borders? The migrants and refugees are still going to be flooding to Europe. They have to go somewhere.

 

[ElTorro]

I generally support Merkel on this issue, despite never actually having voted for her. The one thing where I would criticize her is that she maybe has not done enough to make Germany look less attractive to non-refugees. That might have led to more people on the move than necessary. But it seems to me that Germany has done and is doing the necessary adaptations to its asylum systems in this regard.

Apart from that, the European project has really lost a lot of its outer glory during this crisis.

 

[Kathian]

She claims to be looking for a collective solution but is taking a unilateral one.

 

[post-S]

I read somewhere that Merkel got a lot of criticism for refusing a child refuge on TV, since then she start to act childishly on the refuge issue.
Something like that.

 

[patapuf]

I read somewhere that Merkel got a lot of criticism for refusing a child refuge on TV, since then she start to act childishly on the refuge issue.
Something like that.

If Merkel was that sensitive to overblown media coverage she wouldn't still be chancellor.

Her stance is beyond wanting to score political points. For better or worse, she believes this is the right thing to do.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

Opening the floodgates for millions of people, from some of the worst societies on the planet, seems like a huge and obvious mistake to me. I can only hope the culture of violence that exists in the Middle east doesnt hit Germany too hard within the next few decades and that the people that are accepted as refugees remember the huge favor Germany has done for them. Ultimately, I think it will be a massive challenge for Germans to handle it.

 

[Psychoward]

Is Merkel trying to make the German people become more nationalistic and xenophobic? Because she's succeeding.

She shouldn't be held accountable if people start to develop bigotry in opposition to morally sound policies.

 

[Psychoward]

Take care of your women, GermanGAF!

Opening the floodgates for millions of people, from some of the worst societies on the planet, seems like a huge and obvious mistake to me. I can only hope the culture of violence that exists in the Middle east doesnt hit Germany too hard within the next few decades and that the people that are accepted as refugees remember the huge favor Germany has done for them. Ultimately, I think it will be a massive challenge for Germans to handle it.

White Germans committed more crimes last year per capita than the refugees iirc

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Opening the floodgates for millions of people, from some of the worst societies on the planet, seems like a huge and obvious mistake to me. I can only hope the culture of violence that exists in the Middle east doesnt hit Germany too hard within the next few decades and that the people that are accepted as refugees remember the huge favor Germany has done for them. Ultimately, I think it will be a massive challenge for Germans to handle it.

Worst societies? Are there any examples you can share of this?

 

[diamount]

Worst societies? Are there any examples you can share of this?

I believe he means muslims, despite them fleeing that terror and murder being inflicted there.

 

[Aztechnology]

That says more about some of those German people than her, to be honest.

Not only German people, this goes for all countries on migrant trail

Oh I know. It just makes this problem even more far reaching and putting Germany in a position of blame.

She shouldn't be held accountable if people start to develop bigotry in opposition to morally sound policies.

I'm not saying she should. And I don't disagree with what she wants to accomplish. I worry that with this many migrants and no real plan to stem the tide though that integration will become impossible. It will lead to a segregated society where you will have ghettos with refugees who cannot find work and an increasing frustration from the German people that will lead to a hatred at a scale that didn't previously exist. I'm not trying to say send them all home or anything. I just worry about the situation as Germany is such a progressive place I don't want to see that change because of an weakly formed plan. At least in reference to those of us in the states.

 

[spekkeh]

I hope Merkel starts schaffing das soon.

She's placed Germany unequivocably as part of, if not the, leading country of the EU.

Maybe during the economic crisis with Greece, as everyone likes to pile on Greece. Not many people look to Germany for leadership right now though. It seems that terrible Orban is better at creating coalitions.

 

[Maedre]

I'm not saying she should. And I don't disagree with what she wants to accomplish. I worry that with this many migrants and no real plan to stem the tide though that integration will become impossible. It will lead to a segregated society where you will have ghettos with refugees who cannot find work and an increasing frustration from the German people that will lead to a hatred at a scale that didn't previously exist. I'm not trying to say send them all home or anything. I just worry about the situation as Germany is such a progressive place I don't want to see that change because of an weakly formed plan. At least in reference to those of us in the states.

thats the problem.

 

[oti]

Take care of your women, GermanGAF!

Never come to Germany please. You're not welcome.

I read somewhere that Merkel got a lot of criticism for refusing a child refuge on TV, since then she start to act childishly on the refuge issue.
Something like that.

Are you serious? Merkel isn't David Cameron or Sigmar Gabriel.

 

[Pezking]

thats the problem.

Two weeks ago I was at an event where the government of the federal state of Hessen outlined their policy in regards to the integration of refugees.

I was pretty impressed. They know very well how important a successful integration is and try their best not to repeat the mistakes that have been made with the "Gastarbeiter" decades ago.

Here's a link:
https://fluechtlinge.hessen.de/sites/fluechtlinge.hessen.de/files/Aktionsplan-Fl%C3%BCchtlinge_final_2015-12-16.pdf

 

[Aztechnology]

Two weeks ago I was at an event where the government of the federal state of Hessen outlined their policy in regards to the integration of refugees.

I was pretty impressed. They know very well how important a successful integration is and try their best not to repeat the mistakes that have been made with the "Gastarbeiter" decades ago.

Here's a link:
https://fluechtlinge.hessen.de/sites/fluechtlinge.hessen.de/files/Aktionsplan-Fl%C3%BCchtlinge_final_2015-12-16.pdf

I get a domain error in the states. I'll try again later, but thanks for sharing.

 

[flawfuls]

It's laughable that dramatically improving the lives of literally millions of desperate people is being called irresponsible. Sure it may negatively effect German society in some ways, but if you think that outweighs the good being done then there is probably a little bit a racism clouding your judgment. Not I hate brown people racism, but the much more common "I don't value the lives and suffering of these people much as I would a white person" kind of racism that most people have. Even I feel like I have that bias and I AM a brown person.

 

[hobblygobbly]

The taking of refugees in is not a mistake and never will be. The actions by Germany and Sweden are not mistakes, refugees amassing on borders and being helped are not mistakes.

You know what the mistake is? The rest of the European Union not being a union.

Why are all these other European Union members avoiding/refusing distribution of refugees?

Many EU members do not want to deal with situations as a union, the refugee crisis is a highlight of that, it didn't start with it but it has shown it in more light.

Why are countries like Poland so hard line on refusing distribution? I'll tell you why, look who is in the government right now and that may give an indication.

Germany and Sweden are taking in the numbers because they're the only ones stepping up, nobody wants to take them in, nobody is interested in distributing them, so these countries are making it the only choices for refugees. Finland is also helping, also Italy.

There are 28 member states. Almost all of them aren't doing jack shit, they have no interest in helping, so now some countries have to face it alone, instead of as a union.

Should the only countries actually doing something, just say fuck it, leave all these refugees among the border of Turkey-Syria, in Turkey, in Jordan and in Greece? How will that be *better*?

The way you deal with the refugee situation is by the union being a union and distribution of refugees over the 28 member states and dealing with the situation by working together. These refugees have nowhere to go besides the very few countries that have stepped up to help them.

I also never voted for Merkel, but I agree with the take on refugees, what I am angry about is the rest of the union not giving a fuck.

Merkel is being irresponsible

she is angering countries in the East who are not equipped to deal with such an influx of travelers passing through

Greece is so fucked.

I don't get what's her end game

Canada does it right. / Germany does it wrong

The EU member states in central parts of Europe and Eastern can deal with it appropriately for the size, except they don't want anything to do with it, at all. The distribution is about what they can handle, but they want none of it. There has been politicians from these countries that have said "it's your problem, not ours". In a union? Canada has the privilege of being separated by a massive ocean and not by the pressure of millions of refugees around the borders of other EU member states and Turkey trying to get in. Greece is getting screwed over because of some of the countries it borders with being so hard line with not dealing with the refugees, again, back to the union issue of members not wanting to deal with anything.

 

[Maedre]

Two weeks ago I was at an event where the government of the federal state of Hessen outlined their policy in regards to the integration of refugees.

I was pretty impressed. They know very well how important a successful integration is and try their best not to repeat the mistakes that have been made with the "Gastarbeiter" decades ago.

Here's a link:
https://fluechtlinge.hessen.de/sites/fluechtlinge.hessen.de/files/Aktionsplan-Fl%C3%BCchtlinge_final_2015-12-16.pdf

Thats one side of the medal. It will be intersting to see how willing the refugees will be in the near future.
My standpoint is, that i welcome every refugee. But only if they are willing to integrate into our society. They need to adopt our language and our values. If they do, i will welcome them with wide open arms.

I think many germany have are biased towards Muslims through many years of unsuccessful integration of the turks in the last 50 years. The GDR didn't really try to integrate and the Turks didn't too. There are so many who cant speak our langauge even after so many years. Many of their children and childrens children can't speak a single correct german sentence.
Integration is the most important key to survive this situation. We must get it right this time.

 

[Nightbird]

Well, it's the correct choice to make, but I am concerned if this will go well.

More and more people start to dislike Merkel for her policy on the refugees, and the refugees get more and more hate.

Hope it goes well :/