ClosingADoor
Member
If it is the same as over here, it is hard to get an actual entry level position since those are being taken over by interns mostly who do a good enough job for very little pay.
Merkel: No Plans To Limit Refugee Influx So Far
- Thread starter Antiochus
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JimmyRustler
Member
I' afraid that Merkel interview will just cause more stuff like this:
http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article152760635/Fluechtlinge-stuermen-mazedonische-Grenze.html
I find it really hard to feel sympathy after seeing stuff like this. :-/
If Merkel wants all the refugees, why not just install some kind of transit system to get them there without bothering the other countries in the union?
http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article152760635/Fluechtlinge-stuermen-mazedonische-Grenze.html
I find it really hard to feel sympathy after seeing stuff like this. :-/
If Merkel wants all the refugees, why not just install some kind of transit system to get them there without bothering the other countries in the union?
leatherhat
Member
Merkel doesn't care about the countries in the union she cares about controlling them.
Maedre
Banned
Thats bullshit and you know it.
I kinda find the ideological entrenchment on both sides of this debate really frustrating.
The hard right, even if they can delude themselves into thinking that it's morally okay not to do anything, have to be utterly naive to think that this is a problem that will just disappear if they look away. People in desperate situations will do whatever it takes for them and their children to survive. Mass movement of peoples will only increase in the face of climate change, conflict and economic shifts. You can't ignore this problem.
And the hard left need to realise that you can't just open borders and all will be wonderful come what may. There are enormous economic, cultural, and social challenges that come with mass migration and successful integration. You can't ignore the fears and concerns of those people who already live there. There is an element of ignorance and xenophobia to be sure, but a lot of the fear is founded in reality as well, and if you ignore these concerns, the locals will be easily led into the arms of the radical right, and that leads to a very ugly place. You have to bring people with you on the journey- and clearly Merkel has more work to do there.
It's also easy to criticise, speak in absolutes and be an expert from afar when you don't have any skin in the game. These aren't issues to be discussed in abstractions. It's all very, very real for the people on the ground. If you really want to understand what's going on, you need to dig deep for the nuance. Because the mainstream media doesn't do a good job of providing it.
The hard right, even if they can delude themselves into thinking that it's morally okay not to do anything, have to be utterly naive to think that this is a problem that will just disappear if they look away. People in desperate situations will do whatever it takes for them and their children to survive. Mass movement of peoples will only increase in the face of climate change, conflict and economic shifts. You can't ignore this problem.
And the hard left need to realise that you can't just open borders and all will be wonderful come what may. There are enormous economic, cultural, and social challenges that come with mass migration and successful integration. You can't ignore the fears and concerns of those people who already live there. There is an element of ignorance and xenophobia to be sure, but a lot of the fear is founded in reality as well, and if you ignore these concerns, the locals will be easily led into the arms of the radical right, and that leads to a very ugly place. You have to bring people with you on the journey- and clearly Merkel has more work to do there.
It's also easy to criticise, speak in absolutes and be an expert from afar when you don't have any skin in the game. These aren't issues to be discussed in abstractions. It's all very, very real for the people on the ground. If you really want to understand what's going on, you need to dig deep for the nuance. Because the mainstream media doesn't do a good job of providing it.
leatherhat
Member
I'm afraid I don't know it. If she does care she has an odd way of showing it.
andythinkpad
Member
Merkel can keep her policy for 1-2 more years at best. The climate change is going to blow up in the whole Europe's face and it will trigger a torrent of much larger economic refugees.
Maedre
Banned
"Merkel", the goverment of the GDR has no interesst or can generate a benefit in controlling other members of the union. Do you really see something positive in this refugee situation for germany? It would have been so much easier for germany if we shut the border down like so many other countries. She tried to do the right thing and failed. She alienated nearly every EU Member, does this look like control?
paradise_circus
Member
Merkel struggles to find a solution or an approach at least based with all "victims". The ones who tried do go on their own are trying to go a multinational approach themselves.
leatherhat
Member
I'm not saying she's doing a good job of controlling them.
Because she doesn't want them, while she wants to help those in need, her solution doesn't include Germany taking in every refugee. She only said that we would help anyyone who has managed to get here AND has the right to seek asylum. This doesn't preclude her from doing everything she can to make sure the refugees don't manage to get here. It's just unfortunate for her that with Greece an EU country has already become the bottleneck which she planned for Turkey to be in the future.
Maedre
Banned
Thats more like wishful thinking
Its easier to say that she is evil as recognizing her try to solve the refugee issue and help those in need. She hoped that other countries would follow her. Didn't work.What do you think was her original plan?
leatherhat
Member
Thats more like wishful thinking
What do you think was her original plan?
She didn't have one. I think she would send out an invitation to the world thinking no one would accept it. She gets to look good without causing problems. People started coming in in enormous numbers and she's been scrambling to come up with a plan.
Maedre
Banned
So, she woke up one morning and thought: "Today i will invite everyone who wants to have a better life and those people will help me to controll the EU, Muahahahahaha (insert evil laughing)."
oh and Schäuble was in the background and startet laughing too
leatherhat
Member
Read my edit. Also I don't know what you're doing with the evil laughter stuff. Tone it down. I don't thinks she's a witch I think she royally screwed up a major situation.
Maedre
Banned
Of course she fucked up. My point was, that this has nothing to do with control. She didn't had the right to invite everyone to germany/europe. Now we have a shitton of Problems because of that. Believe me, i am not a big fan of this situation and i dont know how we want to work this out.
leatherhat
Member
This doesn't have anything to do with control but in general she wants German control over a powerful EU bureaucracy, but I'm getting away from the topic.
Maedre
Banned
ah ok, now its the EU buereaucracy... This is getting silly. I'm out.
Vade
Member
I am always happy to encourage young, uneducated, highly religious, frustrated, and entitled males to my first world country. May they bring much added value to our industrialized nation with their legendary backwater culture that we truly can learn much from.
I feel sorry for the natives of Western and Eastern Europe having to manage this influx while their leaders sit in gated communities ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
I feel sorry for the natives of Western and Eastern Europe having to manage this influx while their leaders sit in gated communities ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
Wrestlemania
Banned
You seem nice.
It really depends on the field youre in I guess.
The previous handling of legitimate Vs illegitimate refugees was already hugely long winded and inefficient, so even if you weren't a legitimate asylum seeker you'd still be living in Europe for probably years before any did anything, and by then you've probably moved to a different country or disappeared between the cracks.
Increasing the volume like this will just break everything - probably already too late to avoid catastrophe.
I don't really understand Merkel on this one. Is she being derailed by a personal belief? She must realise that she can't unilaterally accept unlimited refugees into Germany and then turn around and tell other countries they must take a fair share. A fair share of what? The unlimited number you're inviting in? Thats not going to work.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Boris couldn't have hoped for better NO fuel for his campaign.
I understand her thought process, though she always seem to get a lot of shit for it, in the end she's always right. History will be kind to Mrs Merkel.
She is a Vulcan after all.
Holyshit. The hate is pretty strong with this one.
SporeCrawler
Member
How is merkel being irresponsible? She is accepting refugees from syria that would otherwise be rejected by countries like hungary, austria etc and would remain in greece. Is it a european policy if only greece or italy are getting all the refugees while others just do "business as normal". Also do you really think that the free market within europe can sustain itself if countries like hungary, poland and austria are beginning to block everything getting in and outside of their country?
No thats not merkel causing it but the macedonians blocking the boarders also merkel did not start the war in syria nor did she create the IS
so in other words because they are from syria we should be killed bu Assad and ISIS
I guarantee you that these choices now will lead to a significantly stronger economy in 10 years. It may be enough to move Germany back into 4th above Japan.
Most modern nations are about to experience the population age tidal wave. Japan is the first country to hit it, and will come out of it first. Immigration allows you to manage the tidal wave and reduce it's strength. More people working to cover your ageing population. Plus diversity has been proven to be an economic boom, especially around innovation.
when you say Japan will come out of it first, you mean by using magic? Cause Japan certainly isn't allowing anywhere near the level of immigration that would be needed to stave that off.
As for Europe - so what becomes of the countries being left behind? Fuck em? Just leave them as underpopulated husks because hey we need the workers?
Charles Brandon
Member
I don't know what his point is but I'd say it's pretty irresponsible to encourage people to make a ridiculously dangerous sea crossing which has been responsible for thousands of deaths including many deaths of children. Take the refugees by all means, but not like this.
You know who's actually ignoring all evidence to the contrary?
Those idiots burning refugee shelters in Saxony etc., in communities with some of the lowest percentage of foreigners in all of Germany.
I live near Frankfurt, which has a foreigner percentage of about 28%. Lots of turks, moroccans, iranians...I'm 38 years old and have experienced this first hand all my life.
And we're doing pretty good over here. The refugee crisis is considered a big task, but we've managed quite well so far.
In Saxony, a whooping 2,8% of the populace is of foreign origin. I'd consider this quite a gated community for xenophobes. But ironically, the people who probably never met a foreigner in their neighborhood are the ones most afraid of them.
Can we just put sanctions on Saudi Arabia? Why is the West so afraid of getting the country that is responsible for a lot of hell going in the middle east still continue freely to bomb neighborhood countries, sponsors terrorism and still get away with it?
Why are not not doing anything to seriously end the wars but prolonged it with sending arms to so called rebels while more people escape their once peaceful countries and homes?
Merkel is just doing what she can, given the situation.
Why are not not doing anything to seriously end the wars but prolonged it with sending arms to so called rebels while more people escape their once peaceful countries and homes?
Merkel is just doing what she can, given the situation.
Countries take in refugees for humanitarian reasons, that's it. To paint this as some big boon for the economy is just dishonest.
The wave is going to hit them first, therefore they're coming out of it first.
The wave is going to hit them first, therefore they're coming out of it first.
JimmyRustler
Member
Jup, pretty much this. Knowingly saying that she will keep taking everyone in (without offering an means of transportation to Germany!) even though she knows that all countries on the way to Germany are shutting the borders is pretty fucking irresponsible.
ClosingADoor
Member
It is irresponsible because the message was sent that everyone could just come and be taken care off, while the organisations in Germany are not capable of processing everyone. Because of the open border policy, people that are not from Syria also went along with it trying to get into Europe and make use of the situation.
This way of doing things also forces people to pass through multiple countries, that do not want that. Now Hungary has closed off, Austria has set limits and it went from border to border because nobody wants to have a large amount of people in their country that have nowhere to go, but also don't want to stay there.
It is also irresponsible to have people make a dangerous journey like this across the sea and continent where people die and get abused by smugglers.
The responsible thing to do would have been to get the people in need from refugee camps and give them a safe way to Germany instead of going "get here somehow, maybe you'll die or get hurt along the way, but look at me being all helpful!"
Germany said "come here and we'll take care of you" but didn't provide a way to actually get there. Now countries like Hungary and Austria have closed off or set a number of people they let in. You can't blame the Balkan countries for blocking people, since otherwise they would be stuck there. Macedonia gets made out as being the bad one and stopping refugees, but if they let them through they would have the same on their border with Serbia.
MMaRsu
Member
oil and money
That.... sounds pretty good, tbh. It's an overwhelming process sometimes, considering the numbers, but it should slowly improve as refugees start getting put through some of the basics of the system. This is a hard thing to build progress on but from what I've gleaned, it's still happening.
Maedre
Banned
That wasn't what she said.
Heard on the radio Germany is looking for more teachers from neighborhood countries as well. It seems they are pretty committed to getting these people to learn German so they could find jobs and participate in society. Germany wins in the long run if things work out.
No they will come out of it first via natural attrition. They are having issues supporting their aging population but once those 2 generations die off they will be back to being normalized.
They are being hit harder because they don't have immigration to mitigate it like Canada, Sweden, and Germany will have.
That's something that definitely needs to change. A few days ago, the German parliament already passed a first set of new rules to improve that situation; mainly by speeding up the process of rejecting asylum seekers from safe countries and by making asylum in Germany less attractive.
She probably just does not see an alternative. And she definitely overestimated the extent of European solidarity. But she is also right in her belief that ignoring the problem and leaving it to countries like Greece and Turkey won't be a sustainable, long-term solution. What else are we supposed to do? The only alternatives that I can see is to close borders, keep Refugees as close as possible to the borders of their home country, and send large amounts of financial aid to establish refugee camps. But that's likely not what Turkey and Greece want to do.
We could also increase our military efforts in Syria to end the current war more quickly, but that will probably not lead to any form of stable situation anytime soon. It would be a very long military deployment, and it would likely cost us massive amounts of money.
SporeCrawler
Member
Germany had open boarders since 1990. And anybody that seeks asylum will get a fair review process by the authorities thats in the german constitution and outside of merkels power.
Yeah, if it's working, it's going to be hard at first, then become softer as people are capable of integrating and participating in established society.
ClosingADoor
Member
Yes, they are a part of the Schengen zone for longer already and had open borders with other countries. But you know that with open borders I meant open for large numbers of refugees like we see now.
The other points also still stand why it is irresponsible to have a large number of people traveling without caring for their safety along the way and no long term plan to handle them staying in Germany.
That is the thing. People are worried at least a large number of people will not integrate and participate in society like they should.
iceatcs
Junior Member
If they have skilled, but the one more big thing for them to learn is the integration with language and culture. it can take many years to be done. it will be very hard to them use the skill on day one without any integration.
Also, if you think that they have a bachelor's degree or something, then they are clean people. Not quite, there are some crime/terrorists on degree too.
Merkel's diplomatic skills really shining with her 'collective' decision making (read: stubbornly telling everyone else to agree with her)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35687257
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35687257
I wonder why this is so different to German Turks where every fifth doesn't even finish school
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschl...-junge-Deutschtuerke-ohne-Schulabschluss.html
Oh there is a European solidarity, Merkel just refuses to accept
ClosingADoor
Member
I could be wrong, but during the Iran Revolution, wasn't it mostly the upper class fleeing the country. So the immigrants that came in then would have been more highly educated and richer already.
Once in the EU you can go to any other EU state for work.
So if all these unskilled workers can't find work in Germany its better for them to go to the UK.
From 1 April 2016 workers in the UK aged over 25 earning the minimum rate of £6.70 per hour will see a 50p increase to £7.20.
And with great benefits like Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit you only have to work 16 hours a week if you're single parent, or at least 24 hours if a couple with kids. Enjoy your life with minimum work time.
But if you are educated and have money stay in Germany. Tuition fees being zero and all in Germany.
It's win win then staying in the hell that is Syria and other war-torn countries.
So if all these unskilled workers can't find work in Germany its better for them to go to the UK.
From 1 April 2016 workers in the UK aged over 25 earning the minimum rate of £6.70 per hour will see a 50p increase to £7.20.
And with great benefits like Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit you only have to work 16 hours a week if you're single parent, or at least 24 hours if a couple with kids. Enjoy your life with minimum work time.
But if you are educated and have money stay in Germany. Tuition fees being zero and all in Germany.
It's win win then staying in the hell that is Syria and other war-torn countries.
Yep, the I'm only it in to make money and receive subsidies from Brussels and screw everything else. We should just rename it the EU trade Union and get over it, because at its core that's what it looks like. There's no solidarity nor integration.
ClosingADoor
Member
I think the UK might have something to say about that. Immigration is one of the issues why they want to leave the EU and have a referendum for that.
And you can't just travel to the UK freely if you are not a citizen of another EU country already. So they would need to become German citizens first and then move.
Also, with a 16 hour work week, I doubt the UK will see much benefit and it will be a drain on their resources. I can't really see how you survive on 115 pounds a week without some government assistance.
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