Rose is real up until her "I'm pregnant" cut out/glitch. That's the point where GW Rose takes over.
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Metal Gear Community Thread: Made you wait, didn't I?
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Rose is real up until her "I'm pregnant" cut out/glitch. That's the point where GW Rose takes over.
Ah, I thought so, wasn't 100% though, thanks.
AI Rose is best Rose. She provides great mental slap ups.
Yeah that's a good point...she was probably under orders.
I never had a problem with Rose. She was no Mei Ling, but she dominated Raidens mind. If was great to watch. Especially when the AI tore his ass open before Solidus.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
How do you know Rose wasn't a Patriot AI from the start? I always assumed she was.
Because she met with him at the end I suppose. I'll need to play through MGS2 again to refresh my memory on the occurence of events/dialog.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know for certain one way or the other (which I imagine was intended) but I just assumed she wasn't real. I can't think of anything definitive suggested by the game.
Yeah, which is where the VR theory came into play, which MGS4 shot down. Oh well! Having MGS2 end on the note it did would've been good for the series on a certain level. MGS4 was fantastic, but many story points totally made MGS2 look foolish when it shouldn't have gone that route.
GreyOcelot
Member
the most reasonable explanation is that the VR theory is correct and kojima just retconned it with MGS4. taking MGS2 at face value the way MGS4 does really makes MGS2 seem riddled with plot holes and inconsistencies
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
*adjusts glasses*
VR Theory is really nice but it isn't the be-all-and-end-all of MGS2 in terms of thematic or narrative content. The game stands up perfectly well without it (although MGS4 did, as XOF said, destroy a lot of narrative threads).
One of the key things MGS2 consistently reminds you of is that you, the player, are actually taking part in the S3 program, which is a reading that I think runs counter to the VR Theory in many ways. Most of the points for VR could easily be used to highlight the game's intention to comment on the relationship between video games and players (something Kojima specifically mentioned in the released design document). Metal Gear has a history of this kind of breaking of the fourth wall and MGS2 is the peak of that effort.
MGS4 even has a little similar jibe from Big Mama just before the chase sequence in Europe. Something about kids being trained to fight via computer games...? I can't remember.
But yeah, VR Theory is good but MGS2 is great because it is open to many (intentional) readings, like all good works of Art
VR Theory is really nice but it isn't the be-all-and-end-all of MGS2 in terms of thematic or narrative content. The game stands up perfectly well without it (although MGS4 did, as XOF said, destroy a lot of narrative threads).
One of the key things MGS2 consistently reminds you of is that you, the player, are actually taking part in the S3 program, which is a reading that I think runs counter to the VR Theory in many ways. Most of the points for VR could easily be used to highlight the game's intention to comment on the relationship between video games and players (something Kojima specifically mentioned in the released design document). Metal Gear has a history of this kind of breaking of the fourth wall and MGS2 is the peak of that effort.
MGS4 even has a little similar jibe from Big Mama just before the chase sequence in Europe. Something about kids being trained to fight via computer games...? I can't remember.
But yeah, VR Theory is good but MGS2 is great because it is open to many (intentional) readings, like all good works of Art
*adjusts glasses*
VR Theory is really nice but it isn't the be-all-and-end-all of MGS2 in terms of thematic or narrative content. The game stands up perfectly well without it (although MGS4 did, as XOF said, destroy a lot of narrative threads).
One of the key things MGS2 consistently reminds you of is that you, the player, are actually taking part in the S3 program, which is a reading that I think runs counter to the VR Theory in many ways. Most of the points for VR could easily be used to highlight the game's intention to comment on the relationship between video games and players (something Kojima specifically mentioned in the released design document). Metal Gear has a history of this kind of breaking of the fourth wall and MGS2 is the peak of that effort.
MGS4 even has a little similar jibe from Big Mama just before the chase sequence in Europe. Something about kids being trained to fight via computer games...? I can't remember.
But yeah, VR Theory is good but MGS2 is great because it is open to many (intentional) readings, like all good works of Art
Agreed. The main beef I have with MGS4 is that is really confines those readings!
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Because she wasn't acting strange before Arsenal. She never gave Raiden hints to "do his role" or inform him that "Plisken wasn't part of the simulation". The conversations between her and Raiden have an emotional tone that is distinctly different from the AI Rose later on. There's no reason to infer she wasn't real for most of the game.
Like what, breh? The only weird thing is Snake appearing in the streets of Manhattan after jumping into the ocean after Ray. But he did so when it was still dark outside. Perhaps Otacon picked him up in the chopper after dropping off the hostages. Otacon certainly had the time. Other details like how Snake planted a tracker on Ray or what base of operations Rose was radioing in from are just gaps for your imagination, really.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
To be fair, I don't think that's definitive proof. The Patriot AI is trying to essentially control people, part of that would involve having to understand, deconstruct and manipulate human emotions. I think pre-Arsenal Rose does that to Raiden.
KittenMaster
Member
I don't really believe MGS2 is supposed to represent a virtual reality simulation. A large part of the story is trying to achieve total manipulation of the flow of information and exploiting psychological triggers in people to control society how they see fit.
The whole point of the S3 plan was to manipulate Raiden through a real world scenario through exactly that. They were already capable of putting him through VR scenarios, the real test is to be able to put simulation to practice to see if they were ready to begin using the same methods of control and manipulation on society, and for the most part, it was successful.
Rose manipulated Raiden through playing his emotions. Ironically, I don't think AI Rose ever made much of an attempt to control him as the human Rose did, she was more of a taunt and a means to make Raiden question things.
The whole point of the S3 plan was to manipulate Raiden through a real world scenario through exactly that. They were already capable of putting him through VR scenarios, the real test is to be able to put simulation to practice to see if they were ready to begin using the same methods of control and manipulation on society, and for the most part, it was successful.
Rose manipulated Raiden through playing his emotions. Ironically, I don't think AI Rose ever made much of an attempt to control him as the human Rose did, she was more of a taunt and a means to make Raiden question things.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I think she does that because she's an AI.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
She manipulated Raiden because it was her role. Just like it was Olga's role to help Raiden and Ocelot's role to hijack the Ray from the Tanker. They are all pawns. They probably sent other charmers to some of Solidus' other child soldiers, but when Rose told them how this Jack guy would cover up his past and rationalize everything bad to himself, they jumped at him. Someone like Raiden who would rationalize negativity away is a perfect candidate for a manipulation experiment because it represents our species most accurately. Raiden was the perfect sample.
I'm not saying "NO THERE IS NOT EVEN A 0.001% CHANCE OF HER BEING AI U ARE STUPID!" btw, but I personally will always believe she was human until being cut off in Arsenal, a few GW codec calls aside.
GreyOcelot
Member
rose, snake, and vamp are all in NY in the ending. all 3 appearances make no sense whatsoever. vamp is an easter egg? okay, but the other two make no sense at all. if rose isn't an AI the whole time, why didn't she contact jack post AI-revelation? why did she reference Campbell during the mission. i mean, come the fuck on. obviously kojima compromised his original vision for MGS2...he essentially said so himself.
the series cannon has problems, shoving them under the bed is a little silly. we all love the games, just admit it and move on
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Yes, Vamp was a cardboard cutout easter egg. Snake and Rose appearing at the Arsenal crash site to check back with Raiden makes no sense? In what way? The logistics of them getting to where Arsenal crashed at federal hall are superfluous details. The game doesn't have to show that.
She was forcibly taken offline. The last codec she has is shortly before Snake arrives to give Raiden his gear back.
Because "Campbell" was in charge of the mission. If Raiden thought he was real, why couldn't Rose? The real Rose never says a single line of dialogue about actually meeting Campbell.
GreyOcelot
Member
square peg, meet round hole. snake is last seen chasing after liquid/ocelot in MG ray. there is very little conceivable possibility that he'd somehow be in NY to bestow some random words of wisdom for raiden out of nowhere...same goes for rose...there is an awful lot of hand-waving that has to take place in order to get rose from being random support for the mission to out of contact at the same time as the AI rose to standing in NY talking about their relationship without ever mentioning anything else.
come. on.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Yeah, with at least a couple hours of time between that event and meeting Raiden in the streets. And with viable transportation from A to B.
Snake's entire character in MGS2 was pretty much 'that guy who would bestow some random words of wisdom for Raiden". His appearance is sudden but his character and dialogue is completely consistent with the rest of the game.
Rose as support wasn't random, she was chosen because of her relationship to Raiden. She knew him best and at multiple points egged him on to trudge through the mission. GW even tried to bluff and use her as a ransom ("we have Rosemary"). Her being out of contact is not me inferring anything; it's literally shown to the player where she gets cut out.
Where are you trying to go with this? That it was a VR mission? For what purpose? Who is conducting the VR mission? What is the objective of the VR mission? Why make a VR mission where the character goes through a scenario where they face a reconstruced scenario based off of an initial scenario that the character goes through in a different VR mission in addition to a wide variety of smaller specialized sneaking and weapon VR missions? Did the character go through those VR missions within the main MGS2 VR mission? Did Xzibit design this VR mission?
KittenMaster
Member
I think it takes a lot more to justify Rose as an AI than it would to figure out the entire logistics of the ending.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Like, the Solid Snake Simulation is explained pretty well. The goal behind it is simply to create a soldier on par with Solid Snake. So they make Raiden do vr missions and eventually face a scenario similar to what Solid Snake faced with equivalent factors including a ninja, a squad of bosses, and big boss.
And then later it is revealed there was a second layer: the Selection for Societal Sanity. Instead of just censoring information from the general population, the Patriots would filter it in such a way that would create a context in which people willingly do what they are told (without actually explicitly being told). The Solid Snake thing was just one possible context the patriots could create for a test subject. So this doesn't contradict the solid snake simulation at all, but it does expand the scope of the project.
So by saying MGS2 was a vr mission you must have a THIRD layer. This must encompass the entire game and essentially relegate everything that happened to being orchestrated. Intentional. "Liquid Snake" possessing "Ocelot" would have to be part of some goal. "Solid Snake" and "Otacon" are part of it too at this point and not unknown factors (so GW and "Ocelot" calling them unknown factors would be some red herring). GW freaking out would be part of it too and not an unintentional side effect of the virus (which doesn't actually exist since in a vr mission nothing does). For MGS2 to be a vr mission, you essentially have to create a goal for it in mind that the game simply doesn't go over. And at that point you may as well say that the game was a dream
And then later it is revealed there was a second layer: the Selection for Societal Sanity. Instead of just censoring information from the general population, the Patriots would filter it in such a way that would create a context in which people willingly do what they are told (without actually explicitly being told). The Solid Snake thing was just one possible context the patriots could create for a test subject. So this doesn't contradict the solid snake simulation at all, but it does expand the scope of the project.
So by saying MGS2 was a vr mission you must have a THIRD layer. This must encompass the entire game and essentially relegate everything that happened to being orchestrated. Intentional. "Liquid Snake" possessing "Ocelot" would have to be part of some goal. "Solid Snake" and "Otacon" are part of it too at this point and not unknown factors (so GW and "Ocelot" calling them unknown factors would be some red herring). GW freaking out would be part of it too and not an unintentional side effect of the virus (which doesn't actually exist since in a vr mission nothing does). For MGS2 to be a vr mission, you essentially have to create a goal for it in mind that the game simply doesn't go over. And at that point you may as well say that the game was a dream
KittenMaster
Member
Like I said earlier, the Patriots are seeking to prove that they can manipulate elements to their desire OUTSIDE of a VR simulation. They were testing the grounds of controlling perspective and reality, which is very terrifying and a lot of the reason why MGS2 has such a strong message that holds up.
Turning everything into VR undermines that and diminishes the point of everything that happens and the message thereof. May as well say "IT WAS NANOMACHINES" at that point, because saying it was VR is pretty much the same thing.
Turning everything into VR undermines that and diminishes the point of everything that happens and the message thereof. May as well say "IT WAS NANOMACHINES" at that point, because saying it was VR is pretty much the same thing.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
That's a really good point. It is easily argued that the AI's intentions might not be what they say they are. This is a game where literally everyone lies and betrays everyone else, after all.
Regardless, and as I said earlier, I think the VR Theory is a nice one (it works with a lot of the game's themes), but most of the "proof" for it could equally be used as evidence for Kojima making metacomments on the relationship between the player and video games, which we know for a fact was one of his intentions.
On a side note, the VR Theory and Rose being an AI from the start are mutually exclusive, though.
God, I love MGS2.
KittenMaster
Member
The explanation of what the S3 plan ACTUALLY was at the final fight WAS the revelation of what "their intentions truly are", so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I understood the ending of MGS2 perfectly.
I'm not saying that the VR Theory was Kojima's intention or that this is what I personally took from my playthroughs. I'm saying that if you were doing a VR Theory reading of MGS2, you could take it a step further and argue that this "revelation" was actually another lie.
This is a game about multiple levels of disinformation and deception, where every character betrays and lies to every other (including sweet, innocent Hal!) and where the RL artifice of the game is shoved in the player's face, so everything everyone says and does is (and should be considered) suspect regardless of which angle we're approaching it from. These kinds of questions (exclusive from the VR Theory) were definitely something Kojima intended to raise in the player's mind.
Take the final "revelation". It opens with:
As truthful revelations go, the Colonel didn't exactly start off too well. It could be argued that this calls into question their stated intentions, were they in fact true or another part of the manipulation?
To be clear, I'm not stating this as fact or my belief, I'm acting as Devil's Advocate for the VR Theory. For me, one of MGS2's greatest strengths was how it was open to multiple interpretations.
KittenMaster
Member
For one you don't need to be in a VR world to deceive someone. Even if somehow the nature of the patriots and their motives was a lie (which I can't fathom why that would be at that point, in storytelling a truth at the end is very beneficial to show how everything before that was a deception before the realization), that is still not an indication that it's necessarily a VR world.
You don't actually explain why this makes them suspect in this situation though. It's basically saying that their design originated from the white house and evolved from there.
The other arsenal gear AIs are most likely the ones that manipulated the entire scenario, as they allowed GW to be a sacrificial goat in their plan, and it is possible that they even withheld information from GW.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Let me reiterate, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here.
I know it doesn't have to be VR to be a deception, but as whacky MGS theorycrafting goes (and that is all The VR Theory is), this one ties in quite nicely with the game's themes, specifically the nature of reality in The Information Age, disinformation, and the relationship between the player and the game (Raiden spends most of the Arsenal Gear section questioning the reality of the situation, and since Raiden is arguably the player...)
Yes, a truth can of course be beneficial in story telling terms, but when the game centres around Disinformation, both thematically and narratively, and wants the player to consider these beyond the game, it can be equally beneficial to leave it ambiguous. Think of all the films that end on ambiguous notes: Total Recall, Inception, anything by David Lynch etc.
In fact, one of Kojima's major influences when writing MGS2 was The New York Trilogy by Paul Auster, three stories that offer no easy or conclusive answers to it's mysteries, and that asks it's readers to consider it's philosophical and metanarrative questions. So arguably, leaving it on an ambiguous note would be more beneficial to the point Kojima's making.
Speaking narratively though, (and this isn't a particularly important point, just a thought) why would the AI reveal their masterstroke to a pawn that they clearly hold in such contempt? Is it so they can gloat about how great they are (which is a very human thing to do for something that holds humanity in such obvious contempt) or is it part of their deception and manipulation of Raiden to get him all fired up and fatalistic for the final confrontation...?
That's one interpretation, sure, but you're arguably stretching what was said to fit your point because, let's be honest, that's not what the Colonel said at all.
"Hundreds of years"? "A consciousness formed layer by layer"? "We are the very discipline and morality that Americans invoke so often"? Nothing about design or AI.
The opening of the Colonel's revelation shows that they are, or at least think they are, something more than simple AI; a consciousness born hundreds of years ago from America's centre of power. Forgetting that MGS4 completely blows that out of the water, MGS2 itself had three points I can think of off the top of my head that show that they are purely AI which contradicts that opening gambit.
Firstly:
We can't necessarily believe everything the Colonel says, but this directly contradicts the "revelation" by implying that they are different AI to GW (as you mentioned later in your post) rather than a two hundred year old consciousness. Which is the truth and which is the lie here?
Secondly, The Colonel is affected by the virus. Only the AI could be affected by it, so this again calls into question the veracity of the Colonel's opening revelation.
Thirdly, they didn't have AI "hundreds of years ago" and they don't do AI design in The White House.
Taking all that into account, that's why I think it's possible to argue that The Colonel could've been lying even during the final "revelation".
KittenMaster
Member
I overlooked the hundred years part, but that is easy to explain. Don't forget that the Patriots didn't start out as AI (and in fact I don't think it was ever outright stated that the AIs were the Patriots until MGS4), but rather an organization run by a committee that would eventually develop the AI which would replace them. Also, "discipline and morality Americans invoke" does sound like a potential for AI and decision making to me, thus tying into design.
The latter is no, because they used the life of Olga's child to force Raiden to partake in the final battle (he objected to blindly following the order until they forced him to). I believe the reason why they explained their motives to Raiden is the same reason we're in a debate: they wanted to argue why they were in the right, and why they thought control of information was necessary. They weren't just gloating about executing a grand scheme, the AIs genuinely believed what they were doing was correct for the future of society and they wanted to show that Raiden was wrong for thinking otherwise.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Well, we know that the Colonel is an AI from MGS2 alone, as I've explained. The Philosophers/Patriots stuff, as you said, is only revealed in MGS3/4, so if you take MGS2 as a stand alone, this doesn't really matter. I don't think The Colonel ever actually says that the AI are The Patriots in MGS2, just that they were a formless consciousness that grew in the crucible of The White House, which as I said contradicts a lot of what he says. I'm referring to them as the Patriot AI just for expediency.
In any case, that opening gambit of The Colonel's is, as I said, arguably not true. If this is supposedly meant to be the "truthful" revelation for story telling purposes, why do we need to decipher it like you are? Do you not think that you're being pretty liberal with your interpretation of what he says, even a little bit...?
KittenMaster
Member
For the most part of MGS2, it was assumed that the Patriots were a human organization, especially when the president first explained them. It isn't until the twist post-ending that the characters realize something is up.
If you want my interpretation of the statement made by the Colonel, I think he's referring to the governing system set in place that had eventually became a self-sustaining system running the world via AI functions and information control. Kojima most likely didn't have the Philosophers in mind when that was written, but he probably did decide that the Patriot organization started tiny before growing into a massive unchecked political system it was in MGS2.
As for why I am willing to accept it as truth.. because it's the explanation given, and nothing in the story contradicts it. Like I said, even if it was a lie, it wouldn't pertain to whether or not the world Raiden in was VR (the original reason for this discussion, which is that I don't believe at all that MGS2 took place in VR even with Kojima's ambiguous portrayal of the reality of the game).
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Okay, but The Colonel is describing himself as a formless consciousness born in the crucible of The White House, not an abstract concept.
You said earlier that this whole speech was the "Truth", yet the opening part is demonstrably contradicted multiple times in the same game (let alone the rest of the series) which calls the veracity of his entire statement into question. There is room there to say that the entire denouement is false.
You're reinterpreting the opening of what he says to fit your facts and then taking the rest of what he says at face value. How are you deciding which bits need to be deciphered (like the opening) and which bits don't?
As I said at the beginning of the discussion, that ambiguity leaves room for the VR Theory; a theory I like, but don't necessarily subscribe to.
That's my point though. The ambiguity leaves room for the VR Theory. I've never said it is a fact or was Kojima's intention. I'm just saying that it's a viable reading and that the Colonel's statement doesn't contradict it because it is full of contradictions itself.
KittenMaster
Member
Actually if you read the line you are looking at a bit more, he is very much comparing himself to things while not necessarily defined as abstract are somewhat close to being so
"We are formless." - Which means they must exist as an idea or a concept
"We are the very discipline and morality that Americans invoke so often." - Morality and discipline (in the sense of personal conviction) have no physical form
"How can anyone hope to eliminate us? As long as this nation exists, so will we." - You cannot eliminate an idea until there is nobody to have it
But in the end my interpretation is mine, as the Colonel stated his origin as a riddle and as a vague metaphor. I personally think it's best not to read so much into this line and look more at everything else (the things about creating context and controlling ideas that aren't mapped to genes, are they lying about those too?)
While it is possible that you could argue the game as taking place inside VR entirely, it's the inferior interpretation due to how much it diminishes the impact of the villains' ideas and power. In this case, canonizing it as real is actually something MGS4 would have done right (especially since it would potentially take more explaining to figure out how it was VR than not).
GreyOcelot
Member
Like, the Solid Snake Simulation is explained pretty well. The goal behind it is simply to create a soldier on par with Solid Snake. So they make Raiden do vr missions and eventually face a scenario similar to what Solid Snake faced with equivalent factors including a ninja, a squad of bosses, and big boss.
And then later it is revealed there was a second layer: the Selection for Societal Sanity. Instead of just censoring information from the general population, the Patriots would filter it in such a way that would create a context in which people willingly do what they are told (without actually explicitly being told). The Solid Snake thing was just one possible context the patriots could create for a test subject. So this doesn't contradict the solid snake simulation at all, but it does expand the scope of the project.
So by saying MGS2 was a vr mission you must have a THIRD layer. This must encompass the entire game and essentially relegate everything that happened to being orchestrated. Intentional. "Liquid Snake" possessing "Ocelot" would have to be part of some goal. "Solid Snake" and "Otacon" are part of it too at this point and not unknown factors (so GW and "Ocelot" calling them unknown factors would be some red herring). GW freaking out would be part of it too and not an unintentional side effect of the virus (which doesn't actually exist since in a vr mission nothing does). For MGS2 to be a vr mission, you essentially have to create a goal for it in mind that the game simply doesn't go over. And at that point you may as well say that the game was a dream
that's the most compelling aspect of the VR theory, the 4th wall! kojima IS the third layer beyond the two S3s. the game's lack of logical reality at several key points (that we've discussed of the past few pages) make sense within the context of kojima creating a "reality" for the player that's open to interpretation. the VR theory and kojima's meta-comments, at least to me, aren't mutually exclusive.
Bioshock infinite spoilers:
ken levine piggy-backed on these concepts/ideas in bioshock infinite. using a multiverse as a meta "explanation" for the protagonists deaths, the repetative/redundant nature of video games, player agency, etc.
i don't think that sort of thing reduces the themes presented by the patriot AI, the ideas are meant to be commentary on the real world that we live in, their factual reality within the metal gear video game universe, or lack thereof, wouldn't diminish those ideas and their expression in our world
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think The Colonel is comparing itself, the language is declarative. If you are correct in your assumptions, this would be the one and only time the AI has used metaphor in such a way. That seems odd and out of character, whereas it's quite possible and very much in character for the AI to lie; the entire speech could've been part of the rouse.
To reiterate, this is a game that Kojima intended to be "a series of betrayals and sudden reversals, to the point where the player is unable to tell fact from fiction." We're meant to question what we've been shown.
EDIT: Before dismissing it entirely, here is an interesting quote from the MGS2 Design Document relating to the VR Theory:
Again, I don't think the whole VR Theory is the totality of MGS2's message, but it's interesting that Kojima has clearly considered it.
Anyway, you originally asked me what I was getting at regarding The Colonel lying and how it leaves room for The VR Theory when the game gives us a supposedly final revelation, and I've covered that.
Whether you like the theory or find it inferior is beside the point, that's a value proposition and doesn't mean anything, at least objectively. The fact that we're having this discussion and there is no definitive conclusion to be drawn, in conjunction with your personal interpretation of the opening part of his speech as opposed to mine (coming from a VR Theory perspective), just goes to highlight my point: that MGS2 is robust enough for multiple interpretations (which, as I said, is one of it's strengths).
About 10 hours into MGS3 so far (climbing up the mountain). Enjoying it quite a bit. The jungle areas are a breath of fresh air after Big Shell in MGS2. After this I should play MGS4 then Peacewalker yeah? Or is it the other way around? Also, do you guys recommend playing Portable Ops - if so, where would that fit into the play order.
Frank_Tha_Noob
Banned
I would recommend playing MGS4 before PW, because there is some stuff about The Patriots they mention in PW that they assume you already know about from 4. Playing 4 first will give you some context. I would recommend playing Portable Ops too for some better understanding on The Patriots too.
Awesome, thanks. And PO would go before PW, but after MGS4?
POSSIBLE FULL GAME SPOILERS BEWARE
Not sure if this was posted yet and im not sure anyone should even read this but if you dont mind spoiling the entire plot of MGSV TPP then here is a leaked plot synopsis that may or may not be real. After reading this I cant imagine it not being real though. Its pretty convincing but still READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!!!!!1
SPOILERS FOR MGSV TPP (MAYBE)
Article from http://gamingwithclass.co.uk/metal-gear-solid-5-phantom-pain-possible-leak/
My bad, just say this posted in the other thread.
Not sure if this was posted yet and im not sure anyone should even read this but if you dont mind spoiling the entire plot of MGSV TPP then here is a leaked plot synopsis that may or may not be real. After reading this I cant imagine it not being real though. Its pretty convincing but still READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!!!!!1
SPOILERS FOR MGSV TPP (MAYBE)
Article from http://gamingwithclass.co.uk/metal-gear-solid-5-phantom-pain-possible-leak/
My bad, just say this posted in the other thread.
Im sure its been asked before, but why give Snake so many lethal weapons, yet you really should kill as few people as possible? I know you use them on bosses, but it doesnt make sense otherwise. Then again, I guess the same could be said of other modern stealth games.
Im playing Ground Zeroes for the first time, and so far i've found a sniper rifle and a few other explosives. The C4 is good for taking out heavy armored stuff just in case, but what would I need a rocket launcher for?
Im playing Ground Zeroes for the first time, and so far i've found a sniper rifle and a few other explosives. The C4 is good for taking out heavy armored stuff just in case, but what would I need a rocket launcher for?
Hmm makes sense, I guess now that I think about it, if you run out of tranq/stun weapons, and you want no alerts, you might just have to go lethal.
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