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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
Roni
Gold Member
I didn't compile an accurate list, some of the things I listed had already happened when Venom awoke. But you get the gist of it...
So you say the fact you don't build anything is bad, but when I point out you have the potential to have built anything post-1984 as Big Boss that's no longer good enough to redeem the story? Sure.
Just bear this in mind: after 1984 Big Boss is one and the same as Venom Snake. It is only pointed out that the phantom died in 1995 because it's the one fact that sets him apart from Big Boss again.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I dunno. Zero's speciality is information suppression and he picks Ocelot specifically because he can trust him to keep a secret more than anyone else. I don't think it is outside the scope of either of their characters at all.
usp84
Member
I must have missed this...what do you mean?
A joke about the End I assume.
Eva start out as a Boss stan, then at some point becomes a creepy Big Boss stan.
XOF run by Skull Face helped BB all throughout Snake Eater.
Berserker976
Member
Ok, sure, but what of significance happened in the Metal Gear universe between MGSV and MG1? You can pretty much rule out anything that has to do with other characters interacting with Venom because they'd eventually find out that they weren't interacting with the real Big Boss (horn and arm give Venom away). So once again, you're left with this nebulous, superfluous idea that Venom "helped build the legend."
But regardless of that, it still doesn't explain how anything that you did in the main game made any sort of impact on anything. Diamond Dogs, Skull Face, the parasites and Sahelanthropus are never seen or heard from again in the fiction.
It would mostly be him organizing scouts, sending out clean up crews, practicing speeches to give to the wrong person, watching Sanford and Son etc...
TO the interaction point we have to assume either Big Boss pulled a Zero and hid himself away or he actually did get the facial reconstructive surgery then at some point before Metal Gear 1 reversed it.
What happened to Mama Base after this game? Cause Outer Heaven is land locked and doesn't seem to have anything to do with M Base. Did they eventually just move everyone to Outer Heaven or did something happen and they had to rebuild. Outer Heaven was a joint project between Venom and Big Boss so did Miller leave at some point or did he say on the assist with base development. Presumably Ocelot was in some advisory role and probably wasn't on base when intrude occurred.
Venom (and Diamond Dogs) save the world from parasites and rid the world of nukes (if you consider the nuke free ending canon-ish) that's pretty important, but I get what you mean and again its another point in favor of calling this MG Venom (without we're the boss bullshit)
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Why would they eventually find out? For all intents and purposes, he is Big Boss. To everyone but a very select few, BB has a robot arm and horn now.
That's a huge point of the game: acknowledging the role of those forgotten by history. It's talked about all the way through the game.
Berserker976
Member
Yeah, I do wish that Kojima would have just come out and said that this would be a side story.
I can imagine a MGV where the twist is at the beginning, Big Boss tells you that you're his body double and asks you to help build his legend, and you spend the rest of the game acting like you're Big Boss, doing crazy shit in the name of Big Boss instead of wondering why Big Boss is a mute all of a sudden, and then finding out at the end that you weren't the man to begin with. I would have been way more ok with that game.
Nah man, think about it. Every character we know about in the universe that has met Big Boss had to have met the real one, or have known the Big Boss with the horn was a fake. There are no characters that would have had the opportunity to meet Venom, but not the real Big Boss. Remember that by the end of MG1 there is only one Big Boss.
Well you see this is where Venom being a character in the greater lore breaks down. We know that Big Boss eventually takes command of fox hound and we know that Big Boss trained Solid Snake personally. Then in metal gear 1 we're told that Solid kills venom but solid should know that venom isn't the real big boss.
There are other characters in the series that would also clearly know the real big boss such as Sniper wolf and gray fox.
We know from the future recollections of characters that they did not interact with Venom since none of them recount that huge visual discrepancy between him and BB
they looks really similar, even Kaz couldn't tell the difference.
I was already sp00ked beyond believe when I saw my name on the photo backside because I totally forgot about the avatar at the beginning of the game haha
Really nice touch.
I'd probably have fallen off my chair if I'd discovered the reflection by myself lol.
I finished the game yesterday and felt kinda trolled about the doppelgänger thing. Guess I'm lucky that I'm not a series fan, I just liked the gameplay of GZ a lot and bought TPP based off that. Watched the story recaps on YouTube but yeah.
Still pretty pissed I was forced to replay the prologue, was a real waste of time since they didn't do anything different at all from what I've seen.
That's because Kaz is a moron.
"What about him?"
"He's got shrapnel in his head."
Nine years later.
"Hey Boss nice shrapnel."
Lmao, Never think about it until now but millions of people think they were playing BB and that's why they're crying like kids on every thread, similar enough to me ^^
The Silver
Member
all that revenge(ance) can cloud the mind
Roni
Gold Member
Miller left Big Boss and went back to working for Cipher/Patriots, Big Boss builds Outer Heaven, development of TX-55, Big Boss infiltrates the US government while evading Patriot oversight, Solid Snake early military years, Liquid Snake is off doing his own thing with Mantis. There are things. But I'm not sure how this question leads us anywhere, it's clear things happened between those games.
The parasites killed Zero, Skull Face locked Big Boss in a revenge loop for 30 years, Diamong Dogs has about much effect as MSF. Sahelanthropus was an incomplete piece of technology that didn't come to pass. It only worked because of Mantis. Hence why Rex couldn't stand on its own legs without reverse knee joints. Otacon, as brilliant as he was, couldn't solve that problem. You're making brittle criticism that could be easily aimed at Peace Walker and MGS3.
Why? Venom Snake had a horn and prosthetic hand in 1984. By 1995 we have no idea how far technology has advanced. In 2009, Ocelot has an organic hand implanted into his right arm and we have no idea how common that technology is by then.
lol... you sir, are now one of the people i look forward to seeing posts from.
But we see in the ending that Venom gets the intrude tape and he still has the horn and robot arm.
Except miller knew that information from the start...we didn't until the end.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
I have to say, this is one lf the dumbest revisions... way to take a shit on Big Boy by having a barely relevant character be the reason for his success.
Kojima keeps telling people "important stuff" but rarely shows it in his later games.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Sniper Wolf was born after 1975, when both were in a coma. She may very well have met Venom instead sometime after 1984.
Gray Fox is trickier because of his nebulous back story.
I don't think it has nearly as little wiggle room as you think. Now... open your mind a little...
What reason does SS have to suspect the BB he faces in OH is an imposter, just his arm and horn? Everything else about him is essentially the same, right? Would it not seem more logical for someone who doesn't know cloning exists or what the hell a memetic phantom is, to think Big Boss had somehow hidden them from him, that maybe the arm was a glove or something? It just seems like a logical leap based off of nothing for him to assume he's an imposter right off the bat. I mean, he could, but that isn't the only conclusion (V)he could come to.
You're probably thinking "Seriously, are you fucking about? Of course he would suspect him of being an imposter!" We're talking about Solid Snake here, the man with the 180 IQ who didn't realise Miller, another guy he was directly trained by, was Liquid dressed in a disguise so flimsy that Clark Kent would balk at it.
Do you sort of see what I'm getting at? I don't think I explained myself very well XD
INB4 CODECs don't show visuals. No one knows how that fucking thing works
On what occasion would they need to point out the discrepancy?
thequickandthedead
Member
They just cleaned up behind him though didn't they? They didn't actually help him in his boss fights
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
They didn't. They helped out in a support role.
Roni
Gold Member
I have zero reasons to believe that ending was anything other than abstract storytelling. The message Big Boss sent to Venom, sure that's concrete. But an MSX pops up, the same tape with the truth contains the operation intrude info, he's still wearing the same fatigues after a 10 year time jump and an organizational restructuring.
Details pertaining to that scene are no more credible than the prologue. The bulk of what happened is true, but most of the details can't be taken into account.
usp84
Member
Well yeah but he didnt directly help him with the fight with the End, i thought the post implied that
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
...or that. XD
thequickandthedead
Member
How? I don't remember Snake getting any support in his boss fights.
The Silver
Member
MGS is a universe where everyone just seems to easily accept that a transplanted arm is literally posessing Ocelot cause he says it is.
Maybe Big Boss just told everyone he finally got his horn removed and grew a new arm in a lab and they were all "oh cool bro".
Maybe Big Boss just told everyone he finally got his horn removed and grew a new arm in a lab and they were all "oh cool bro".
Who do you think sprinkled those Rations all across the map?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Not that kind of support. Clean-up was one of three things Zero (I think) mentions.
Berserker976
Member
I meant, what things happened that Venom could have done. The implied answer is: pretty much nothing important.
1. Actually Zero lived a stupidly long life 2. Big Boss killed him, technically. 3. Skull Face didn't lock Big Boss in shit. 4. I agree about Diamond Dogs being as important as MSF i.e. not at all. 5. I also agree about Sahelanthropus, it's a piece of junk that never worked and never impacted anything.
Some of my criticisms could definitely be leveled at PW. Not MGS3 though, I don't think. It was going for something fundamentally different.
We see exactly what Venom looks like in 1995 during the mirror scene after the time skip.
thequickandthedead
Member
Just checked the wiki. XOF's job was mainly to supply intel during Operation Snake Eater.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Ignoring the very valid concerns about pacing, I have wondered if the story would have been received better had it not been a MGS game. Obviously, it still has flaws, but I imagine many people are angry because of expectations of a story heavy game.
LMAO. Wouldn't this support the theory that Kaz was blind after all?
They never really address that.. do they. he just has cloudy eyes for the sakes of it... i don't get it.
Also, i don't think he is blind. He always knows where he is walking to, and makes direct contact with things around him.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Reflections aren't exactly reliable in TPP.
They do. He pretty much says it.
That's fine but then you still have another guy running around with a horn and robot arm. Venom doesn't just disappear. There's two big bosses now.
One way I was thinking this twist would work better is that Big Boss kills Venom at the end. That way Kojima gets his meta narrative in there and the game's story from then on is still somewhat cohesive.
hahaha. Well I guess that could explain it. I'll just go with that.
That at least would make BB become the prime evil, and have a direct interaction with you in the game. Resulting in a complete circle... VS story starts and ends and there is no more to it. This would make more sense.
where? i must've missed that. how come he interacts with stuff directly then?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I was serious about the imposter thing... T-T
Pilgrimzero
Member
If Big Boss is so famous wouldn't people know he lead Outer Heaven?
So in the original Metal Gear and the Outer Heaven uprising, would they ask the Big Boss who works for Foxhound "Hey what's up?"
And seeing as how Cipher and BB don't get along how does BB ever convince him "Hey I'm tired of being a merc leader can I come back and work for you?"
So in the original Metal Gear and the Outer Heaven uprising, would they ask the Big Boss who works for Foxhound "Hey what's up?"
And seeing as how Cipher and BB don't get along how does BB ever convince him "Hey I'm tired of being a merc leader can I come back and work for you?"
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Omfg I died.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
To be honest it seems to me that Kaz acquired some abilities due to being blind. The way only him realizes that Quiet is waiting for Venom to get into the chopper is quite telling he "sees" in some other way.
Berserker976
Member
So, this is a perfect illustration of my point. Sniper Wolf was there for Zanzibar Land, she had to have been interacting with the real Big Boss.
Every character follows this pattern. Also keep in mind that while Venom died in Outer Heaven, Big Boss was still the one that built it.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
I accidently discovered the reflection in the first few hours of play. I was like "fuck.. the twist is real."
Ending cutscene of chapter 1 he tells diamond dogs that they must be his eyes for him then he takes off his glasses and you see his pupils are grayed out.
I guess i never thought about it in that way. What a mess....
So Kaz is blind... and he is like Daredevil now? Whats the point of him being blind? like what does that do for his character? This is stupid now. ~_~
So this is implying that this was a gradual deterioration?