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[Deleted member 30609]

Fair point. I suppose, to try and flesh out what I'm thinking, Gordon is more of an idea of a character than an outright surrogate.

You are given random facts about Gordon, characters react to him in a certain way and you actively do what he does. By a point in the game, you can reasonably predict what Gordon will do because usually what he's presented with are scenarios that are cleverly directed to always make the necessary course of action feel 'correct'.

That's the real genius in what Valve does. They tell you everything you need to know without ever needing to reveal their hand and actually say much of anything. At no point did I ever feel like what Gordon was doing or where he was going was just plain wrong. I never felt like I was out of control, even though I was basically being forced to create a character out of thin air with limited background knowledge, and then concede to myself that I have no control over his actual course of action.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I'm early in the game and I'm completely stuck on where to go. I just beat the first sector and can't figure out where to go.

 

[Prime Blue]

That is one darn nice rendering of her.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I'm looking at a walkthrough and still confused on where to go. Is there anyway when going back to the "end of sector 1" that you can go back without popping back out of that puddle everytime? I can't run up the hill and I keep just going in a loop to that puddle thing.

 

[evilromero]

I LOVED this game. Yes, the exposition and cutscenes were silly without a doubt but the overall narrative was pretty engrossing. I have to say I really enjoyed the final part of the game, especially the last few boss battles (how can you complain about

Spoiler

an awesome showdown with the Queen Metroid?

. I can't wait to explore the abandoned bottleship. It's kind of like getting two Metroid games in one. The heavy-handed story experience then the isolated exploration afterwards.

 

[Owzers]

I'm looking at a walkthrough and still confused on where to go. Is there anyway when going back to the "end of sector 1" that you can go back without popping back out of that puddle everytime? I can't run up the hill and I keep just going in a loop to that puddle thing.

Have you checked the ign guide? i found it really helpful since it had pictures of everything.

 

[cooljeanius]

What I'm imagining Gordon to be saying, or at least what the game is implying Gordon to be saying, is probably a lot more emotionally engaging than whatever would actually be said. Having to fill in the gaps myself just endears me to that world that little bit more, especially on a repeat playthrough.

The thing is, they weren't implying he was saying anything though. They were actually drawing attention to the fact that he was staying silent (Alyx: "You don't talk much, do you?"; Breen: "I can understand if you don't want to discuss this in front of your friends," etc.). If the other characters had acted like Gordon had actually been saying stuff (like the characters in most other games with silent protagonists do), I would have been okay with it, but when they expected him to respond, it just felt weird. Basically if your game is going to have a silent protagonist, make it clear that they're being a silent protagonist, don't just make them a protagonist that's being silent (if that makes sense).

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Have you checked the ign guide? i found it really helpful since it had pictures of everything.

No, I just went on gamefaqs. I didn't know ign did guides, I'll have to check.

Edit: Thanks, I got it now. My tv is too far away to see breaks in walls like there which makes it really annoying to play right now.

 

[MechaX]

Okay folks, I need an answer to this question as it's completely key to whether or not I'll replay the game anytime soon.

On Hard Mode, is is true that

Spoiler

you won't get access to the epilogue and won't be able to fight the extra boss?

 

[Ridley327]

Okay folks, I need an answer to this question as it's completely key to whether or not I'll replay the game anytime soon.

On Hard Mode, is is true that

Spoiler

you won't get access to the epilogue and won't be able to fight the extra boss?

This is correct.

 

[MechaX]

This is correct.

That's... highly disappointing, especially since that segment provided one of the more fun boss fights in my opinion.

While that you're here, one more question: On Hard, does the game introduce different enemies or place harder enemies in different segments like in a typical Team Ninja game?

 

[McNum]

And I'm done, 100%. Good game, will likely replay later.

Overall, I liked the game, it has some glaring weaknesses, but for such an obvious experiemnt with the Metroid formula, it worked pretty well. The controls were fine, the camera excellent, and all of Samus' abilities felt more or less solid. The impact from a

Spoiler

Super Missile

had a really nice sound, for instance, and I liked

Spoiler

Shinesparking

all over the place, just for fun.

The boss fights were all pretty good. Some of them got a bit rough, but it wouldn't be fun if I could just walk all over them on my first try. Slightly disappointed with

Spoiler

Ridley

, that fight wasn't as good as they usually are. It came too early in the game, I think. Swap

Spoiler

Nightmare's

position with

Spoiler

Ridley

and you'd have the abilities needed to make one epic

Spoiler

Ridley

fight, like usual.

The story was okay, I have a slightly higher than normal tolerance for anime type stories, so it didn't bother me too much after the first hour or so. It even managed to surprise me a few times, I most certainly didn't not expect who the big bad was in this game. Too bad the fight with it was a bit... lacking. Wasted potential there.

The graphics were perfectly fine for the game. Samus animates beautifully and everything is brightly colored and easy to make out at a glance. That's how it's done. However, some of he textures are just... bad. The lava texture stands out here. How they have that nice water and that bad lava, I don't know.

I think the music in the game is bugged, though. It sometimes becomes very low volume, and doesn't ramp back up. I noticed during the boss fight with

Spoiler

Phantoon and the escape

afterwards. I did that three times. The first two times, the music was a full force, the last time it was all quiet.

I think as a first try at making this kind of game, Other M is a good start. I do know one thing... I want a

Spoiler

chicken-Ridley

plushie now. And it needs to have that mouth.

 

[Ridley327]

That's... highly disappointing, especially since that segment provided one of the more fun boss fights in my opinion.

While that you're here, one more question: On Hard, does the game introduce different enemies or place harder enemies in different segments like in a typical Team Ninja game?

The only real difference between Normal and Hard is that there are no more pick-ups to collect, so you're stuck with your default health and 10 missiles.

 

[heringer]

I want a

Spoiler

chicken-Ridley

plushie now. And it needs to have that mouth.

Haha, me too. So awesome.

 

[Mael]

Ah - so what you're basically saying is that you prefer your female leads to be seen but not heard?

Spoiler

ZOMGSEXISM ;-)

Not just female....

 

[RagnarokX]

wish you guys would stop bringing up authorial intent




Some history, since everyone hates me for knowing what I'm talking about.



According to Prynne, this was not his intent. He was misread. But shouldn't his intent hold weigh over what people think themselves? Guess not.



"The author says so" is not going to save you from the tower of london or 25 years of Samus not being a PTSD subservient little girl.

So... because the Queen of England misinterpreted and killed a man... all misinterpretations like your sexism rant are validated? Good to know.

You keep using subservient as a loaded word. All of her games have involved her following orders. The military she works for just has a larger role in this mission.

As for PTSD,

Spoiler

there is only one thing that triggers it for her and she thought he was dead for good this time. It's not just a possible explanation, you should really read the manga.

 

[farnham]

I LOVED this game. Yes, the exposition and cutscenes were silly without a doubt but the overall narrative was pretty engrossing. I have to say I really enjoyed the final part of the game, especially the last few boss battles (how can you complain about

Spoiler

an awesome showdown with the Queen Metroid?

. I can't wait to explore the abandoned bottleship. It's kind of like getting two Metroid games in one. The heavy-handed story experience then the isolated exploration afterwards.

yeah i liked the structure as well.

 

[PistolPete]

The aiming mode in this game is terrible for me. The dodging doesn't work, and half the time I find myself facing 3 inches from a goddamn wall with a boss behind me. Seconds later, I'm dead. Again.

There isn't enough to bring me back to get better at it. I can imagine it only gets worse as I'm only in sector 1. I die multiple times at every 'encounter', always because of my sloppy ability to use aim mode and it really sucks the fun out of it. I nearly broke my controller in half out of frustration after dying for the 10th time because a particular section required jumping quickly between normal and aiming mode.

Im with the minority of people here who think the game is poorly designed. I'm a huge super metroid fan, and shadow complex showed what can be done with the genre if its refined. Super metroid was instantly accessible - so was shadow complex. And prime was too when the series was taken in a new direction. And they were all fun. Not so with this one - This seems to be a mix of stuff and it's not fun at all for me.

 

[farnham]

The aiming mode in this game is terrible for me. The dodging doesn't work, and half the time I find myself facing 3 inches from a goddamn wall with a boss behind me. Seconds later, I'm dead. Again.

There isn't enough to bring me back to get better at it. I can imagine it only gets worse as I'm only in sector 1. I die multiple times at every 'encounter', always because of my sloppy ability to use aim mode and it really sucks the fun out of it. I nearly broke my controller in half out of frustration after dying for the 10th time because a particular section required jumping quickly between normal and aiming mode.

wow. how can the dodging not work. all you have to do is waggle

also use dodging a lot with chargeshots as you can get an instant charge when you dodge. its the main strategy i used and it works like magic

Im with the minority of people here who think the game is poorly designed. I'm a huge super metroid fan, and shadow complex showed what can be done with the genre if its refined. Super metroid was instantly accessible - so was shadow complex. And prime was too when the series was taken in a new direction. And they were all fun. Not so with this one - This seems to be a mix of stuff and it's not fun at all for me.

Shadow complex was just Super Metroid and Castlevania in 3D graphics. It had little refinement. It was a good game but it played it very safe by sticking to the Metroidvania formula.

 

[wsippel]

The aiming mode in this game is terrible for me. The dodging doesn't work, and half the time I find myself facing 3 inches from a goddamn wall with a boss behind me. Seconds later, I'm dead. Again.

There isn't enough to bring me back to get better at it. I can imagine it only gets worse as I'm only in sector 1. I die multiple times at every 'encounter', always because of my sloppy ability to use aim mode and it really sucks the fun out of it. I nearly broke my controller in half out of frustration after dying for the 10th time because a particular section required jumping quickly between normal and aiming mode.

Im with the minority of people here who think the game is poorly designed. I'm a huge super metroid fan, and shadow complex showed what can be done with the genre if its refined. Super metroid was instantly accessible - so was shadow complex. And prime was too when the series was taken in a new direction. And they were all fun. Not so with this one - This seems to be a mix of stuff and it's not fun at all for me.

There's a really simple way around this: Don't use missiles unless you absolutely have to. Use charge shots. Outside of boss fights, there's only a single kind of enemy much later in the game that you have to finish off with missiles, and only until you get the final beam upgrade.

 

[Somnid]

The aiming mode in this game is terrible for me. The dodging doesn't work, and half the time I find myself facing 3 inches from a goddamn wall with a boss behind me. Seconds later, I'm dead. Again.

There isn't enough to bring me back to get better at it. I can imagine it only gets worse as I'm only in sector 1. I die multiple times at every 'encounter', always because of my sloppy ability to use aim mode and it really sucks the fun out of it. I nearly broke my controller in half out of frustration after dying for the 10th time because a particular section required jumping quickly between normal and aiming mode.

Im with the minority of people here who think the game is poorly designed. I'm a huge super metroid fan, and shadow complex showed what can be done with the genre if its refined. Super metroid was instantly accessible - so was shadow complex. And prime was too when the series was taken in a new direction. And they were all fun. Not so with this one - This seems to be a mix of stuff and it's not fun at all for me.

It doesn't matter where you land after a dodge, you are invincible. As long as you keep getting attacked you can keep chaining dodges to avoid damage even if you are in a corner. You can also dodge straight out of first-person mode too if you are about to be hit.

 

[_Alkaline_]

That is one darn nice rendering of her.

Agreed. It's the best realised look of Samus in her Zero Suit for sure.

Still trying to forget those horrible Prime aberrations. Amazing how they actually managed to get it worse after the first Prime.

 

[EatChildren]

There's a really simple way around this: Don't use missiles unless you absolutely have to. Use charge shots. Outside of boss fights, there's only a single kind of enemy much later in the game that you have to finish off with missiles, and only until you get the final beam upgrade.

I've found the whole missile system to be easily the biggest learning curve, especially for old Metroid players. The ease of use behind the old missile system and the abundance of ammo meant that, later in the games, you could spam missiles without much trouble.

In Other M it's best to view missiles as a context sensitive attack, much like the finishers, that only need to be used at the right moment, such as crippling an enemy's weakpoint. Missiles are often used to break away beam invulnerability, or to open up a weak point. To do this, you just wait for a break in the enemy's attack, and if you're facing the right direction you should be able to switch to first person, lock on, and fire a rocket in no more than 3 seconds.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

"Mediocre by all 2010 design standards" is pure hyperbole, I'm sorry. Honestly, you seem so unimpressed with the game, that most of what it does that's /interesting/ seems to be off the radar.

But most of the arguing over this game, in this thread at least, has not been over whether it's as "modern and progressive" as freakin' Red Dead Redemption. Or whether it compares to the best AAA games of the year. Most of the talk has been arguing whether it has a right to exist at all, and whether it is a "disgrace" to the Metroid series because of either A: the story (knock yourself out there), or B: Why doesn't it play exactly like Super Metroid or Metroid Prime?!

But sure, I'll bite. Here's what is genuinely enjoyable and holla crap, better than other games before it by 2010 design standards: fusing the sticky friction and play dynamics of a 2D platformer in a 3D world with simple but thoughtful and careful use of grid and movement splines. Creating a new kind of 3rd person shooting combat that doesn't rely on target lock cycling or Z-targeting melee circling. Auto targeting that's fun and really works, thanks to a almost always intelligent positioning and mix of enemy types in an encounter. Using these systems to create bosses that manage to bring the crazy butt-clench moments of screen-filling 16-bit Treasure bosses into a modern game and incorporate 3D elements - and first person targeting - without becoming slow and ponderous.

Really, I think this isn't bad for such a "vapid" end product. You know, maybe it's just not your game.

The boss fights in this game don't hold a candle to what Treasure does. I agree with what Rez said about the game being mediocre. That doesn't mean I haven't found some redemption in the game. I did enjoy it in the end, but it has some major flaws that will only be overlooked the hardcore Metroid/Team Ninja fans. There's a lot in this game that will both piss off existing fans and keep new gamers from getting into the franchise. In other words, if this was the first Metroid game I had ever played, I would probably never play another one again, at least not without extreme reservation.

 

[farnham]

The boss fights in this game don't hold a candle to what Treasure does. I agree with what Rez said about the game being mediocre. That doesn't mean I haven't found some redemption in the game. I did enjoy it in the end, but it has some major flaws that will only be overlooked the hardcore Metroid/Team Ninja fans. There's a lot in this game that will both piss off existing fans and keep new gamers from getting into the franchise. In other words, if this was the first Metroid game I had ever played, I would probably never play another one again, at least not without extreme reservation.

also treasure bosses are something totally different to metroid bosses

 

[EatChildren]

but it has some major flaws that will only be overlooked the hardcore Metroid/Team Ninja fans.

There will always be people who still like it. I know a couple of people going through Other M now who have only briefly played a little of Super and Prime, and were never into the series, and are loving it.

If anything, I think most criticism is coming long term Metroid fans.

 

[farnham]

There will always be people who still like it. I know a couple of people going through Other M now who have only briefly played a little of Super and Prime, and were never into the series, and are loving it.

If anything, I think most criticism is coming long term Metroid fans.

i believe the game will be redeemed after a few years by most of the metroid games. similar to all nintendo franchises

 

[MadOdorMachine]

There will always be people who still like it. I know a couple of people going through Other M now who have only briefly played a little of Super and Prime, and were never into the series, and are loving it.

If anything, I think most criticism is coming long term Metroid fans.

That may be the case. Like I said, there was a lot about the game that will piss fans off.

i believe the game will be redeemed after a few years by most of the metroid games. similar to all nintendo franchises

I think the game will be remembered for two things. Action/Camera and Story/Controls. In terms of the former, I can see other games emulating this. I found the automation a nice evolution to the action genre. The story and controls on the other hand I think will be looked at as inadequate. I think that's a nice way of putting it. The controls were necessary to develop the bad ass action though, so hopefully next time they can expand on the action and fix the controls and story.

 

[Boney]

The thread really went to places for a moment there.

 

[Poyunch]

You're not the first person who wants Samus (and her suit) to manifest more Metroid-like features and abilities. The guy who drew this just took it a step (or ten) further. It's a bit much if you ask me, I'm not sure how many people want to play as a humanoid Metroid Queen.

I just want a Metroid arm cannon. The Fusion Suit is fine as is.

 

[Y2Kev]

Playing this game made me crack out Metroid Prime 3 so I guess it did some good!

 

[Boney]

Playing this game made me crack out Metroid Prime 3 so I guess it did some good!

Prime... 3?

Why don't you just pick Hunters up

 

[sfried]

Playing this game made me crack out Metroid Prime 3 so I guess it did some good!

Prime 3 is awful. Bryyo makes me want to go back to the G.F.Olympus and blow up the Aurora unit. Stupid backtracking that doesn't makes sense...

 

[Y2Kev]

you people are weird.

 

[Gravijah]

So, did you guys figure out the meaning of life through Other M yet?

 

[Boney]

So, did you guys figure out the meaning of life through Other M yet?

That we're stupid.

 

[farnham]

Samus with metroid features -> Dark Samus

 

[Kai Dracon]

The boss fights in this game don't hold a candle to what Treasure does. I agree with what Rez said about the game being mediocre. That doesn't mean I haven't found some redemption in the game. I did enjoy it in the end, but it has some major flaws that will only be overlooked the hardcore Metroid/Team Ninja fans. There's a lot in this game that will both piss off existing fans and keep new gamers from getting into the franchise. In other words, if this was the first Metroid game I had ever played, I would probably never play another one again, at least not without extreme reservation.

I've played every Treasure game. Gunstar Heroes is on my list of top 10 action games of all time. There's more to classic boss design than Treasure style, however. Other M is (in the case of most of its bosses) not emulating Treasure style bosses. Even compared to Treasure directly, despite my love for their best games, they never did create anything like the original Gunstar and Dynamite Headdy - most of the bosses in their games after that point were relatively shallow gimmicks propped up by insane design and animation. Treasure is not the gold standard to hold up and win arguments about 16-bit action game bosses; it's just a retro fan favorite name to drop.

Oddly enough, I would readily agree that most of the bosses in the Prime series are more elaborate than the bosses in Other M. But then, this isn't Metroid Prime; it's a different game with different requirements for playability.

In point of fact, the boss designs in Other M are significantly better than most of what Team Ninja themselves has done for their own action series - Ninja Gaiden. NG's bosses, to me, were always the weakest part of the game! Not because they didn't look impressive, but because their attempts at patterns were too dodgy, random, cheap, and the infamous Ninja Gaiden camera system fought against the player. (There's another point I don't see brought up: Team Ninja is infamous for the lopsided camera in Ninja Gaiden that works only for certain kinds of encounters and fails at all else. The camera system in Other M is an entirely different beast.)

I'd like to know where the bulk of the design concept and tweaking of Other M came from - it's going to be a stereotype to blame Team Ninja for anyone one doesn't like in the game (or give them sole credit). But I think it's pretty clear there was more design input than just their own. They haven't been able to do action as clear as in Other M before.

At this point, the fan criticism over Other M is starting to remind me of the nearly-forgotten initial backlash against Metroid Prime. I recall many an argument that Metroid Prime was a mediocre game and failed as a Metroid game because it was missing critical Metroid features - that its first-person platforming was bland and uninteresting compared to "real" Metroid games. How Retro was clearly a bunch of losers who were not up to the task. That the long-awaited return of Metroid had sank the franchise forever, or at least would have if it hadn't been for Fusion (which sucked anyway because it had this talking computer and that had no place in Metroid).

Largely, most of the complaints boiled down to people who weren't interested in what did make Metroid Prime good; just what made it not Super Metroid.

Other M is not as epic of a game as Metroid Prime. In those ways, it is not as 'good' of a game and I'm not saying it is. My biggest criticism of it is not the control system, not what it doesn't have from Metroid Prime or Super Metroid, and not that it changes things (like being linear in the way it is). Those are red herrings and plenty of people are being distracted by them. The biggest thing that keeps Other M from being a superelative game - and merely a very good game with a couple of great and fresh ideas - is that it is conservative. It doesn't go far enough with its new ideas - with concepts unique to Other M itself. Falling short of potential isn't the same as being inherently mediocre.

My actual hope is that if another game follows what Other M does, the team doesn't fall prey to fans stirring the pot and just try to make it like Metroid Prime or Super/Fusion, and instead focuses on developing the new concepts Other M brings to the table. Flesh those out. As of right now, Other M is as parallel a Metroid series to me, as Prime is to 2D Metroid.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Say what you will about the dialogue, the plot, the voice acting and Samus' characterization but the gameplay in Other M is pretty damned awesome. The speed through which you move through Other M is such a huge change of pace after the Prime trilogy, a welcome return to speed the older 2D games had. The automated aiming really helps with this, the act of shooting almost takes a backseat to the platforming. Maybe it's just because you're back in the third person perspective, but Other M feels like it really brings the focus back to the platforming elements. The more action-oriented combat with the roll dodging and the enemy interaction (be it blasting their faces off or trying to escape their clutches) is pretty badass.

Also, the best god-damned shinespark in forever.

 

[scitek]

If you turn on subtitles, and off the volume and just read the dialogue, it's actually NOT terribly written or translated. It actually reads pretty well, it's just not written in a way that anyone would ever naturally speak, so when it's said aloud, it comes off as really hokey. ("The word he so deliberately chose, 'outsider,' pierced my heart." *gag*) It has a very "book" feel to it, because it's too descriptive to be voiced narration. It should have been rewritten by a screenwriter to sound more natural when voice-acted.

 

[Snuggles]

There will always be people who still like it. I know a couple of people going through Other M now who have only briefly played a little of Super and Prime, and were never into the series, and are loving it.

Or in another words, me. The whole "you only like it because you're a fan" argument is as flimsy as it gets.

 

[Poyunch]

Or in another words, me. The whole "you only like it because you're a fan" argument is as flimsy as it gets.

No obviously those games are just stupid. How could they like a game like this? Fucking idiots.

 

[VerTiGo]

Having trouble getting to Phantoon.... damn it.

Yea, actually I have no idea what to do or go. I'm pretty much just wasting time getting more missle upgrades and such, but i don't feel like doing that right now.

 

[Snuggles]

No obviously those games are just stupid. How could they like a game like this? Fucking idiots.

It's because they're a fan of the series, and going into it they wanted it to be good so bad that they somehow convinced themselves it was good.
It's all in the head.

 

[Kard8p3]

Spoiler

Having trouble getting to Phantoon.... damn it.

Yea, actually I have no idea what to do or go. I'm pretty much just wasting time getting more missle upgrades and such, but i don't feel like doing that right now.

Dude you need to use spoiler tags.

 

[thecouncil]

It's because they're a fan of the series, and going into it they wanted it to be good so bad that they somehow convinced themselves it was good.
It's all in the head.

id say its more likely fans of the series that dont like it... all the 'they ruined my samus' people are the ones who hate it...

 

[Giolon]

I've beat the game 100%, and I still don't know what the "Other M" is referring to.

Spoiler

MB/Melissa Bergman?
Madeline Bergman?
The Metroid Queen?
The super unfreezable Metroids?
Samus's return mission to get Adam's helmet?

It's because they're a fan of the series, and going into it they wanted it to be good so bad that they somehow convinced themselves it was good.
It's all in the head.

I like it, because I like it and think it's good. There's no convincing.

Good is not equivalent to Perfect.

 

[Snuggles]

I've beat the game 100%, and I still don't know what the "Other M" is referring to.

The only thing I can think of is Metroid: Other M -> M:OM/MOM

Mom. I have no idea what that has to do with the game, though.

 

[Kard8p3]

New interview with Sakamoto
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=263225

 

[Red]

I've beat the game 100%, and I still don't know what the "Other M" is referring to.

Spoiler

MB/Melissa Bergman?
Madeline Bergman?
The Metroid Queen?
The super unfreezable Metroids?
Samus's return mission to get Adam's helmet?

I like it, because I like it and think it's good. There's no convincing.

Good is not equivalent to Perfect.

All of those things. It's so forced it's hilarious :lol

As I've said before, I really like the game, but all the self-importance and ass clenched seriousness it has for itself is bordering on parody.