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[Boney]

I think Other M just moved from Project M. Like Other Metroid... nothing to do with story.

 

[Boney]

Depicting the story of Samus Aran in this game was one of the most important game design concepts from the very beginning because before Other M I did not think about what kind of person Samus Aran was and how she thinks and her personality. We did not do that by writing or by letting her speak a lot.

Plus because of the existence of the Metroid Prime series many people might have different ideas about what kind of person Samus Aran was. That was a concern for me because Metroid has already become a solid franchise and probably in the future as well we will be willing to make the sequels.

If many people have different ideas about what kind of person Samus is then there will be some problems about making the future franchise games. So with Other M I really wanted to determine and express what kind of human Samus Aran is so that we can really tell what kind of natural step she should be taking in the future.

Bum shakalaka.

As far as the Metroid Prime series is concerned that was being taken care of by another producer other than me inside Nintendo and he was collaborating very closely with Nintendo so I am not in a position to say how it was working with non-Japanese developers. So I am speaking from the point of view of an outsider, not too close and not too far away.

 

[Somnid]

People hated Prime for it's departure from 2D, Prime fans hated Echoes for its departure with Ammo and the Dark World, others hated Fusion for its departure with Samus' narration and more scripted exploration (Other M shares a ton of similarities). We don't even have to address Hunters which is another beast. It's usually the "fans" who get obsessed with one game and they can't take changes. This is one of those games that will have to sit for a few years with people before it really gets the respect it deserves and there will always be a few crotchety folks who simply won't. Then we can complain about how the next Metroid was no Other M.

The retro-goggled fan phenomenon has already been a staple of the Zelda fanbase, I see no reason why Metroid wouldn't share it.

 

[Ridley327]

I'm pretty sure that Hunters is the only game in the franchise that the Metroid fanbase has an unanimous opinion towards. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Red]

I'm pretty sure that Hunters is the only game that the Metroid fanbase that has a unanimous opinion. :lol :lol :lol

I think Hunters was unnecessary, but I still like it more than Corruption.

How's that for unanimous.

 

[Boney]

Samus is one of a few iconic game characters that have been around for decades and in a way become timeless. What does a character need to have that sort of timelessness, is there a formula?

Sakamoto: I just cannot give you any exact answer. I don't know if it's correct but if I can share my hypothesis with you: It must be because Metroid has been interesting for the game creators especially when it comes to Samus Aran.

Although I have never tried to hide the psychological element of Samus intentionally, as a matter of fact I was trying to demonstrate the characteristics of Samus. Maybe because of that kind of approach Samus Aran has been taken as kind of a mysterious personality and that mysteriousness might have attracted people.

But now that we have shared more of her personality with Other M people might not have a similar interest. They don't see Samus Aran as a mysterious personality anymore but we knew that it was the case and the reason why we created Other M in that context is because after knowing the personality of Samus Aran we wanted people to love Samus Aran much more than before playing Other M.

So Samus being a mysterious character might have been catering to the ability for us to sustain the interest with Samus Aran so far, from now on we need some different approach. Now that you understand who Samus Aran is, what Samus Aran is you must be intrigued to know what she'll be doing next.

 

[Ridley327]

I think Hunters was unnecessary, but I still like it more than Corruption.

How's that for unanimous.

I think that you might need a CAT scan.

 

[Sadist]

The "scan a specific part of an item/person" is really really bad.

Spoiler

I have to scan a metallic Space Pirate which fell out of some pod in Sextor one (after meeting with Pierce and the others) and I just can't find the damn thing to scan. Frustrating.

Someone help?

 

[Penguin]

Probably a stupid solution, but eh stuck.

Spoiler

So I've collected all the items in Sector 1-3 and Bioweapons. I go back to the Main Sector, where there should be an elevator and several of those exploding things.

But the elevator never comes and I climb as high up as possible and don't know where to go/get through this area.

 

[Red]

I think that you might need a CAT scan.

I will try and find time to replay Corruption in the next few weeks to either confirm or dispel my conclusion.

May even do a RTTP with extended thoughts. I don't know. Even right now, just thinking about playing that game again seems like self-punishment.

If you approach Hunter knowing that it was a multiplayer FPS then you would likely form a different opinion. It'd be a little like hating Echoes because it's not a good multiplayer FPS. I think the branding was a problem and that it made people assume it was something it wasn't.

Yes.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I've played every Treasure game. Gunstar Heroes is on my list of top 10 action games of all time. There's more to classic boss design than Treasure style, however. Other M is (in the case of most of its bosses) not emulating Treasure style bosses. Even compared to Treasure directly, despite my love for their best games, they never did create anything like the original Gunstar and Dynamite Headdy - most of the bosses in their games after that point were relatively shallow gimmicks propped up by insane design and animation. Treasure is not the gold standard to hold up and win arguments about 16-bit action game bosses; it's just a retro fan favorite name to drop.

Oddly enough, I would readily agree that most of the bosses in the Prime series are more elaborate than the bosses in Other M. But then, this isn't Metroid Prime; it's a different game with different requirements for playability.

In point of fact, the boss designs in Other M are significantly better than most of what Team Ninja themselves has done for their own action series - Ninja Gaiden. NG's bosses, to me, were always the weakest part of the game! Not because they didn't look impressive, but because their attempts at patterns were too dodgy, random, cheap, and the infamous Ninja Gaiden camera system fought against the player. (There's another point I don't see brought up: Team Ninja is infamous for the lopsided camera in Ninja Gaiden that works only for certain kinds of encounters and fails at all else. The camera system in Other M is an entirely different beast.)

I'd like to know where the bulk of the design concept and tweaking of Other M came from - it's going to be a stereotype to blame Team Ninja for anyone one doesn't like in the game (or give them sole credit). But I think it's pretty clear there was more design input than just their own. They haven't been able to do action as clear as in Other M before.

At this point, the fan criticism over Other M is starting to remind me of the nearly-forgotten initial backlash against Metroid Prime. I recall many an argument that Metroid Prime was a mediocre game and failed as a Metroid game because it was missing critical Metroid features - that its first-person platforming was bland and uninteresting compared to "real" Metroid games. How Retro was clearly a bunch of losers who were not up to the task. That the long-awaited return of Metroid had sank the franchise forever, or at least would have if it hadn't been for Fusion (which sucked anyway because it had this talking computer and that had no place in Metroid).

Largely, most of the complaints boiled down to people who weren't interested in what did make Metroid Prime good; just what made it not Super Metroid.

Other M is not as epic of a game as Metroid Prime. In those ways, it is not as 'good' of a game and I'm not saying it is. My biggest criticism of it is not the control system, not what it doesn't have from Metroid Prime or Super Metroid, and not that it changes things (like being linear in the way it is). Those are red herrings and plenty of people are being distracted by them. The biggest thing that keeps Other M from being a superelative game - and merely a very good game with a couple of great and fresh ideas - is that it is conservative. It doesn't go far enough with its new ideas - with concepts unique to Other M itself. Falling short of potential isn't the same as being inherently mediocre.

My actual hope is that if another game follows what Other M does, the team doesn't fall prey to fans stirring the pot and just try to make it like Metroid Prime or Super/Fusion, and instead focuses on developing the new concepts Other M brings to the table. Flesh those out. As of right now, Other M is as parallel a Metroid series to me, as Prime is to 2D Metroid.

Ninja Gaiden Black fixed a lot of the camera issues in the game. There were very few times when I had a problem with the game. Then again, I only beat Black & NGS2. I haven't played Dragon Sword ironically because of it's controls. I could see some people skipping this game because of controls. Anyway, Hayashi was director for NGDS IIRC so the camera system might have been different, and being that it was on a Nintendo system might be the game Sakamoto played.

As far as boss fights go, I thought the bosses in the NG were harder and thus more rewarding. I understand Metroid is a game trying to reach more people though and the difficulty was toned down. I'm not trying to dog the bosses in Other M, I'm just saying I think they are inferior to the bosses in other Team Ninja games as well as Treasure ones. That's not to say I didn't have fun with Other M though!

As far as fans go, I hope they listen to and correct the complaints that have been made. This game could have been so much better. Other M is the biggest change we've seen in the Metroid franchise since Prime. It was bound to cause controversy. I don't think change is bad but the way it was implemented doesn't live up to the high standards of Nintendo games. The controls and story should have had more polish.

 

[Boney]

The "scan a specific part of an item/person" is really really bad.

Spoiler

I have to scan a metallic Space Pirate which fell out of some pod in Sextor one (after meeting with Pierce and the others) and I just can't find the damn thing to scan. Frustrating.

Someone help?

Scan the sternum. Remember to let go of B and keep the pointer on for a second.

Probably a stupid solution, but eh stuck.

Spoiler

So I've collected all the items in Sector 1-3 and Bioweapons. I go back to the Main Sector, where there should be an elevator and several of those exploding things.

But the elevator never comes and I climb as high up as possible and don't know where to go/get through this area.

You have to go to the hallway before the long elevator, there's a powerbomb door there.

 

[Somnid]

If you approach Hunters knowing that it was a multiplayer FPS then you would likely form a different opinion. It'd be a little like hating Echoes because it's not a good multiplayer FPS. I think the branding was a problem and that it made people assume it was something it wasn't.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I just want a Metroid arm cannon. The Fusion Suit is fine as is.

A cannon that shoots Metroids?

Fuck yes, sign me up.

 

[scitek]

I don't think change is bad but the way it was implemented doesn't live up to the high standards of Nintendo games. The controls and story should have had more polish.

Gotta admit, though, it's pretty damn polished for a Team Ninja game. :lol I can only imagine what bugs would we'd be bitching about had Nintendo not been involved.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Bum shakalaka.

It seems like just about every body had a different idea about who Samus was except for Sakamoto. I understand he wanted to show a different side of the character, but he is admitting that he's wanted to change the personality of the character. He's definitely doing that and it has a lot of people pissed off. I'm not going to get into that though. There's another thread for story details.

 

[Gravijah]

I kinda wish Samus never took off her suit.

 

[Sadist]

Oh I got it, talk about a needle in a haystack :lol

Fight was pretty cool.

 

[EatChildren]

It seems like just about every body had a different idea about who Samus was except for Sakamoto. I understand he wanted to show a different side of the character, but he is admitting that he's wanted to change the personality of the character. He's definitely doing that and it has a lot of people pissed off. I'm not going to get into that though. There's another thread for story details.

He's not changing her personality though, instead giving it something more established.

 

[Boney]

It seems like just about every body had a different idea about who Samus was except for Sakamoto. I understand he wanted to show a different side of the character, but he is admitting that he's wanted to change the personality of the character. He's definitely doing that and it has a lot of people pissed off. I'm not going to get into that though. There's another thread for story details.

That basically how interpreted Samus' character in Other M. I said it earlier, it's a bit of a retcon to make her more vulnerable and sentimental, even though it's not completely out of character because of the baby metroid and Adam.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

If you approach Hunters knowing that it was a multiplayer FPS then you would likely form a different opinion. It'd be a little like hating Echoes because it's not a good multiplayer FPS. I think the branding was a problem and that it made people assume it was something it wasn't.

There's a reason why franchises exist. If you're not following certain precedents you might as well just start a new IP. The line between necessary innovation and unnecessary changes is a fuzzy one, but it's there nonetheless. I always resent the notion that seeing greater value in an older game than a newer one makes you a purist or a fanboy. Good design is king regardless of when a game was released, or how flashy it is on the surface. The insulting thing about the trajectory of the Metroid series over the past decade is that the changes they make are typically in line with what 1000 other run of the mill games already do at the expense of design choices that used to elevate Metroid and make it more unique. Of course no one wants the same retread over and over, but ever since Fusion/Prime Metroid has increasing thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Sadist]

Aaarrrgggh

Spoiler

Now at the point with Lyle down and the others watching his corpse(?). What Do I have to scan?

 

[EatChildren]

Aaarrrgggh

Spoiler

Now at the point with Lyle down and the others watching his corpse(?). What Do I have to scan?

Spoiler

Look for a trail of splatter.

 

[Boney]

Aaarrrgggh

Spoiler

Now at the point with Lyle down and the others watching his corpse(?). What Do I have to scan?

Look for the green blood behind you.

We do not spoiler this.

 

[JohngPR]

Fought

Spoiler

Ridley

, that was a fucking awesome boss fight. Leave it to them to

Spoiler

kill the one guy from the Galactic crew that I liked.

Also just got the shinespark and space jump abilities. How far would you say I am through the game (percentage wise)?

 

[Red]

There's a reason why franchises exist. If you're not following certain precedents you might as well just start a new IP. The line between necessary innovation and unnecessary changes is a fuzzy one, but it's there nonetheless. I always resent the notion that seeing greater value in an older game than a newer one makes you a purist or a fanboy. Good design is king regardless of when a game was released, or how flashy it is on the surface. The insulting thing about the trajectory of the Metroid series over the past decade is that the changes they make are typically in line with what 1000 other run of the mill games already do at the expense of design choices that used to elevate Metroid and make it more unique. Of course no one wants the same retread over and over, but ever since Fusion/Prime Metroid has increasing thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

Are you telling me the Prime series moved toward typical run of the mill? Because oh my god

 

[Boney]

Fought

Spoiler

Ridley

, that was a fucking awesome boss fight. Leave it to them to

Spoiler

kill the one guy from the Galactic crew that I liked.

Also just got the shinespark and space jump abilities. How far would you say I am through the game (percentage wise)?

Around 60%

 

[Sadist]

Thanks and lol, it's pretty obvious that white furry creature is

Spoiler

Ridley

 

[MadOdorMachine]

He's not changing her personality though, instead giving it something more established.

Yeah he did. He just admitted he did it. He thought there was no "common ground" on who the character was so he decided to remedy that. The problem is, he did it without taking into account the traits many people already thought Samus was as a character - a badass, reserved, female bounty hunter. That's not to say she couldn't be subject to emotion, she actually has shown emotion in the past, but it was always expressed thru body language/facial expressions. People put their own thoughts into what Samus was thinking. He changed all of that with the internal monologs and it sucks to be quite frank. I'm not saying she shouldn't ever talk, but there were plenty of times I wish she would have remained silent. I think it gives the player more connection to the character.

I also think that's what makes the game so much more bearable on a second play thru and why some people have a more positive opinion. Once you've completed the game, you can skip thru the story, you have the controls down and you know how to solve all the ridiculous "Where's Waldo" and other similar WTF moments. After reading that interview though, I hope they do go back to Team Ninja for another game. I really liked what they brought to the franchise, I just want the game to fix all the problems and expand upon the good parts of Other M.

 

[JohngPR]

I just thought of this....the other M stands for

Spoiler

Malkovich

.

 

[Boney]

I still think the most important aspects depicted in the old games are sparing the baby, not finishing her mision. Apparently smuggling that baby Metroid and then going back to rescue it and put an end to the pirates operations.

Not to mention her monologues on Fusion.

 

[JohngPR]

Around 60%

Ah cool, I was afraid I was nearing the end. It helps that I search every nook and cranny in the game.

Thanks!

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Look for the green blood behind you.

We do not spoiler this.

This is exactly my point. People aren't even putting spoilers up on certain sections now because so many people have been stuck at certain points and not just the "Where's Waldo" moments either. This is one of the reasons I agree with people saying the game is mediocre or "How can anyone give it such high praise." I understand there are some good parts about it, but there are a lot of flaws too. This just being one of the few.

 

[EatChildren]

Yeah he did. He just admitted he did it. He thought there was no "common ground" on who the character was so he decided to remedy that. The problem is, he did it without taking into account the traits many people already thought Samus was as a character - a badass, reserved, female bounty hunter. That's not to say she couldn't be subject to emotion, she actually has shown emotion in the past, but it was always expressed thru body language/facial expressions. People put their own thoughts into what Samus was thinking. He changed all of that with the internal monologs and it sucks to be quite frank. I'm not saying she shouldn't ever talk, but there were plenty of times I wish she would have remained silent. I think it gives the player more connection to the character.

I also think that's what makes the game so much more bearable on a second play thru and why some people have a more positive opinion. Once you've completed the game, you can skip thru the story, you have the controls down and you know how to solve all the ridiculous "Where's Waldo" and other similar WTF moments. After reading that interview though, I hope they do go back to Team Ninja for another game. I really liked what they brought to the franchise, I just want the game to fix all the problems and expand upon the good parts of Other M.

No, he didn't. He stated that Samus has been seen as a mysterious character, and this is true. That does not mean she is a defined character. Quite the opposite, in fact, it means people have been exploring Samus' personality from their own perspective and crafting their own idea of her character.

He states that Other M now defines Samus, and thus those who enjoy her mysterious presentation of old might not. He even says that hiding Samus' personality was not intentional.

So no, there is no defined Samus that Sakamoto and co have done a 180 on, or pissed all over some established character with something new.

 

[heringer]

I have a feeling Other M will be one of those games that people play it again a couple years later and have a different view about it. When the next Metroid arrives a lot of people will replay the game again and like it more than their first playthrough because all the preconceptions will be gone.

Then they will hate the next Metroid.

 

[Poyunch]

A cannon that shoots Metroids?

Fuck yes, sign me up.

No man, an arm cannon that has Metroid-like details! I would love that, due to the fact she has Metroid DNA, her abilities would actually evolve. Drain Beam, yeah!

Actually that would be really awesome. They could integrate the Lethal Strikes from Other M (because Sakamoto is adamant about having Team Ninja be part of 3D Metroid now) and please the people that complain about not having enemies drop gil health/missile drops, by having Samus drain enemies as finishers.

 

[Boney]

This is exactly my point. People aren't even putting spoilers up on certain sections now because so many people have been stuck at certain points and not just the "Where's Waldo" moments either. This is one of the reasons I agree with people saying the game is mediocre or "How can anyone give it such high praise." I understand there are some good parts about it, but there are a lot of flaws too. This just being one of the few.

I think those are the biggest flaw in the game, because the bring down pacing to a full stop. It's a good idea, but it boggles my mind that they made it work differently than regular FP view and make it pixel perfect.

The other part is the lab, which is completely uninteresting and slow. If you could interact with things, it could've been so much better. But it was handled very badly.

But the thing is, I don't think these flaws are enough to bring the game down as much as you guys think of it, because to me, all the other stuff is ace. It does so much more stuff good, and even great on some parts that it offsets the bad by a huge margin.

 

[anotheriori]

I kinda wish Samus never took off her suit.

master

Spoiler

chef

...traits many people already thought Samus was as a character - a badass, reserved, female bounty hunter.

Other M doesn't change this only the stoic mute portion. This portrayal in-game is Samus at her most badass (insert Ridley lethal attack pose). There's a lot of internal monologues but she doesn't say that much and yes she's still female with a nice zero suit model.

 

[Haunted]

Did anyone make some screencaps of the gallery section (preferably in Dolphin) yet?


Some of the comical Lil' Samus reactions are so cute. :lol

 

[Poyunch]

Actually I really liked that Destructoid article posted earlier. Other M really didn't change anything about Samus. All her angst and crap were almost entirely in her past. Even before the original Metroid. Besides

Spoiler

that really awful Ridley scene

which I just consider that bad characterization, Samus is extremely mature in this game.

She listens to the Galactic Federation because she's a professional. She was hired and she has to abide to their rules. Stupid moments like the Varia Suit occur but that's more of a problem of bad writing x game integration.

Just because Samus shows emotion now doesn't mean she can't also be the same strong character she is. Even so Samus almost never interacts with anyone on a personal level in her past games. There's just as much of a possibility of Samus having these emotional issues as there is a possibility that Samus was just some quiet badass. There's no way this could truly be proven because she never interacts with anyone beyond a professional relationship.

I'm not dismissing any opinion but I do believe that both sides each have enough "proof" and as such should not just be ignored because your belief contradicts the other.

 

[EatChildren]

She listens to the Galactic Federation because she's a professional. She was hired and she has to abide to their rules. Stupid moments like the Varia Suit occur but that's more of a problem of bad writing x game integration.

It's funny how people have an issue with Samus obeying the Federation when she meets them on the bottle ship, but have no issue with her practically exterminating an entire species because she was told to.

 

[heringer]

It's funny how people have an issue with Samus obeying the Federation when she meets them on the bottle ship, but have no issue with her practically exterminating an entire species because she was told to.

That's because exterminating an entire species makes her the most badass thing ever!!!

 

[EatChildren]

That's because exterminating an entire species makes her the most badass thing ever!!!

Oh yeah!

Man, when Adam told her not to use powerbombs she should have whipped out a chaingun and cigar and told him to blow it out his ass.

 

[brandonh83]

I would add the ending credits track to this game to the same list that Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy VIII, Metal Gear Solid, and so on occupy. I mean, what the fuck. Seriously.

 

[jaundicejuice]

There's a QTE in the middle of the

Spoiler

Ridley fight

, wtf.

 

[Haunted]

I do find it funny that the live action commercial ended up being the best narrated cutscene created for the game.

 

[Kard8p3]

There's a QTE in the middle of the

Spoiler

Ridley fight

, wtf.

When?

 

[Boney]

There's a QTE in the middle of the

Spoiler

Ridley fight

, wtf.

huh?

 

[Poyunch]

He probably got caught by

Spoiler

Ridley.

 

[donkey show]

There's a QTE in the middle of the

Spoiler

Ridley fight

, wtf.

I'd hardly call charging your beam a QTE.