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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him
- Thread starter Sadist
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Lone_Prodigy
Member
Kard8p3 said:
Wasn't there a story discussion spoiler-filled thread?
So did anyone have any embarrassing deaths while playing this? No matter how many times I play through it I always die a few times at
That part feels weird to me because no matter how I tackle that section I'll always die a few times before lucking out and making it out.
the avalanche towards the end of sector 2.
victreeb3l
Member
^ I still don't understand how people kept dying in that one. You just keep running forward until you
speed boost and then you escape automatically. However, I died a million times on that lava whale bridge part solely because I wasn't using sense dodge at all for the first few hours of the game and I couldn't figure out how to dodge him. I know :|
Boney said:
Because I didn't feel this way when playing Other M. But now it's more apparent.
One other thing I noticed, is that how stupidly shiny and spotless Samus' suit was throughout Other M. It was like a brand new Porsche in a showroom. Compare that to the Prime games when it looks worn, and like a proper battle suit throughout. It's just much more authentic.
re: the sakamoto interview
He said player's having multiple ideas of who Samus is was a problem or not a good thing. The reality is that its not a good/bad judgement to be had. It just simply is there and you have to account for it. The other problem with that statement is that there really wasn't a great variation on these ideas of Samus, as they all sort of followed along the same line of isolated bounty hunter.
He brought up wanting to retain the atmosphere of Metroid, but Other M really lacks it. I am surprised there wasn't a follow up question on that.
I am not sure why he keeps thinking the essence of Metroid is being 2d. That's pretty shallow understanding for a game designer. The rules and play and concepts don't align along a viewing perspective, but just require a perspective being used in a way that allows them. You could turn pacman into a 3d detective noir as long as you kept the search, consume, maze and chase elements.
He said player's having multiple ideas of who Samus is was a problem or not a good thing. The reality is that its not a good/bad judgement to be had. It just simply is there and you have to account for it. The other problem with that statement is that there really wasn't a great variation on these ideas of Samus, as they all sort of followed along the same line of isolated bounty hunter.
He brought up wanting to retain the atmosphere of Metroid, but Other M really lacks it. I am surprised there wasn't a follow up question on that.
I am not sure why he keeps thinking the essence of Metroid is being 2d. That's pretty shallow understanding for a game designer. The rules and play and concepts don't align along a viewing perspective, but just require a perspective being used in a way that allows them. You could turn pacman into a 3d detective noir as long as you kept the search, consume, maze and chase elements.
etiolate said:
i just found this beautiful little paragraph about cinema in matt seitz' review of "the island" from five years ago. and i thought it was relevant. it applies to any kind of narrative art or storytelling:
from here: http://www.nypress.com/article-11860-supersonic-strap-on.htmlmatt seitz said:
_Alkaline_
Member
Considering the game takes place on a ship, I'm not sure what you are referring to when the game lacks 'atmosphere.' It's perfectly creepy and unsettling, both through the music and visual cues.
It's not nearly as alien as other Metroid games but it takes place on a human-created ship that attempts to replicate specific environments. It's basically the same as Fusion, sans the SA-X who was a terrifically creepy and hostile presence.
By the way, no offence but your whinging about Samus' character is getting really old dude. Your almost making me start to hate those cats in WarioWare, and that makes me sad.
It's not nearly as alien as other Metroid games but it takes place on a human-created ship that attempts to replicate specific environments. It's basically the same as Fusion, sans the SA-X who was a terrifically creepy and hostile presence.
By the way, no offence but your whinging about Samus' character is getting really old dude. Your almost making me start to hate those cats in WarioWare, and that makes me sad.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I started playing Metroid Fusion the other day and right at the beginning of the game Samus gets infected with the X parasite and explains it thru a cut scene. I don't have a problem with cut scenes telling the story, but I immediately noticed a glaring flaw between Fusion and Other M. In Fusion, Samus explains that once infected with the parasite, she went unconscious and was rescued by the GF. She says that the GF scientists had to surgically remove her suit while she was unconscious. That blows out the whole argument that she has to concentrate to manifest her suit. I'm sure someone will come up with a way to support how this would work, but it seems like for a guy trying to implement a cohesive story hasn't thought out a lot of the details. Yes, I'm still pissed about
I'm watching the video now and will comment on that in a moment.
Samus losing her suit functionality with Ridley.
I'm watching the video now and will comment on that in a moment.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
If Sakamoto wants to know what fans think and want, I'll sum it up as simply as I can.
Gameplay:
- Keep the focus on action because it rocks. Don't forget about exploration though.
- Include the nun chuck or just use the classic controller next time. It allows more options, particularly the ability to use missiles in third person.
- Fix the linearity and make it more open world. Make the objective hint system optional.
- First person action (that includes missiles & Waldo moments) should be relegated to mini games and improved. Basically copy the aiming in Metroid Prime 3.
- Keep the camera system and over all third person game design as well as the ability to free look for clues in first person.
- Over the shoulder moments should focus on survival moments - try this with the Zero Mission suit.
- Keep the extra bonus they had at the end of this game, but let us be able to collect more items in the main game.
- Make the game a bit longer or give us a reason to replay. Real bonuses like unlocking a new suit would be nice.
- Make the action a bit more challenging.
- Lose the upgrade system they had in this game. It took away the sense of accomplishment.
Story:
- Ditch the internal monologues and only make Samus talk when it's absolutely necessary. She's a lot cooler when she expresses her self thru body language.
- For the most part, I don't want to know how Samus thinks or feels. It's a lot better for me to put myself in her shoes with my own feelings. Only make her talk for key plot points and then make it count.
- Spend more time and money on translation and less money on CGI. What we have is a garbled mess.
- Make the story clearer. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and blame it on bad translations and misinterpretations.
Edit - This Japanese vs. Western philosophy is really troublesome. Don't give up your heritage to try and suit someone! There's a reason people like Nintendo games. The fact that they're Japanese is a huge part of that. However, they could tone down the anime, emo take on Metroid. That doesn't mean it can't be quirky though. I love that about Japanese games. Just make it cool.
Gameplay:
- Keep the focus on action because it rocks. Don't forget about exploration though.
- Include the nun chuck or just use the classic controller next time. It allows more options, particularly the ability to use missiles in third person.
- Fix the linearity and make it more open world. Make the objective hint system optional.
- First person action (that includes missiles & Waldo moments) should be relegated to mini games and improved. Basically copy the aiming in Metroid Prime 3.
- Keep the camera system and over all third person game design as well as the ability to free look for clues in first person.
- Over the shoulder moments should focus on survival moments - try this with the Zero Mission suit.
- Keep the extra bonus they had at the end of this game, but let us be able to collect more items in the main game.
- Make the game a bit longer or give us a reason to replay. Real bonuses like unlocking a new suit would be nice.
- Make the action a bit more challenging.
- Lose the upgrade system they had in this game. It took away the sense of accomplishment.
Story:
- Ditch the internal monologues and only make Samus talk when it's absolutely necessary. She's a lot cooler when she expresses her self thru body language.
- For the most part, I don't want to know how Samus thinks or feels. It's a lot better for me to put myself in her shoes with my own feelings. Only make her talk for key plot points and then make it count.
- Spend more time and money on translation and less money on CGI. What we have is a garbled mess.
- Make the story clearer. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and blame it on bad translations and misinterpretations.
Edit - This Japanese vs. Western philosophy is really troublesome. Don't give up your heritage to try and suit someone! There's a reason people like Nintendo games. The fact that they're Japanese is a huge part of that. However, they could tone down the anime, emo take on Metroid. That doesn't mean it can't be quirky though. I love that about Japanese games. Just make it cool.
MadOdorMachine said:
It has been already argued that the suit was corrupted by a foreign entity and thats the reason it doesn't "vanish". Its still, at least for me, the same old "a wizard did it" explanation. I can't recall the explanation for the suit disappearing completely in Zero Mission's second part and Samus having no ability to recover it, she actually needed to find another suit, the whole thing just doesn't make much sense.
The suit was never given much thought sadly. When they needed to make a canon with other M they chose the easy route of magic dust which was disappointing to say the least.
The suit's particular characteristics come initially from technology limitations, pretty much in the same way Mario was designed. Morphball was created because animation of someone crawling was difficult to do, the giant shoulder pads appeared because the Gameboy was black and white and they needed a way to differentiate between the normal and the Varia suit, and so on. One would think that with technology giving so much freedom for designers in this day and age they would've come up with a better, more interesting explanation for how the suit works.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Other M is what it is. The game has some deep flaws, but aside from some of the gameplay mechanics, I hope they completely forget it ever happened. That's the best way they can go forward imo. Use it as a learning experience and take into consideration what people think about it. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try new things. We wouldn't have the fantastic action and camera innovations if they didn't, but at the same time, they need to be more focused on what's important. Sakamoto shouldn't be so closed minded that he doesn't listen to feedback from fans and the developer. He asked Team Ninja to help him because he'd never made a 3D game and then he completely shot down the idea of making the game with any other control mechanics other than the one he envisioned. It's good to have a vision or direction, but that doesn't mean that it can't be improved upon. I think he will learn from this though and take into consideration what fans want. This is the most backlash I've seen from a Nintendo game since Wind Waker, the results of which were one of the best Zelda games ever made, Twilight Princess. That should have Metroid fans excited, and they should speak up about what they want now more than ever.mantidor said:
Story time:
Some of you may know of a game called Zillion on the Sega Master System. Well, I played that game for an extremely brief period of time at a neighbor's house as a kid, but even still, the impression left a big impact on me: I loved that game. Somehow, I grew up not having played Metroid (possibly, the inspiration for Zillion?) and since I liked Zillion so much, I decided I HAVE to play the Metroid series.
Anyways, here I am now: even after playing a bit of Metroid Prime 1, and completing Metroid Prime Hunters, Metroid Prime 3, Fusion, Zero Mission, Super Metroid on Wii VC, and after just beating Other M
... the Metroid series STILL confuses me really, really badly. Some games you understand quickly (if not immediately) on how the game is going to be like, what you have to do, and how to progress. But Metroid... I don't know what it is about this series that leaves me with an uneasy feeling. The fact that Metroid is a Nintendo franchise (Nintendo is simple, right?) and I still don't feel like I "get it" leaves me feeling bewildered even more.
Besides the moments where the game's item placement and/or level design makes me feel like a donkey with the carrot on a stick or encourages horrible OCD behavior (not game specific to Other M), there were quite a few moments in Other M, where I thought WTH over and over...
Throughout my entire Metroid experience (excluding the Prime games), I went through the majority of the games not fully understanding the controls. In Super Metroid, I didn't even know you could run for some time in the beginning (that made one room particularly confusing and frustrating). Wall jumping felt strange. To this day, I still don't know shinespark controls!
Back to Other M, even after beating the game, I'm still not sure about the controls. Another OTHER M moment that made me go WTH involving controls was
Despite the extra-weirdness of Other M, I like the game some. Of the Metroid games I've completed, I'm feeling right now:
Zero Mission > Fusion > Super Metroid > Prime 3 > Other M > Hunters
Some of you may know of a game called Zillion on the Sega Master System. Well, I played that game for an extremely brief period of time at a neighbor's house as a kid, but even still, the impression left a big impact on me: I loved that game. Somehow, I grew up not having played Metroid (possibly, the inspiration for Zillion?) and since I liked Zillion so much, I decided I HAVE to play the Metroid series.
Anyways, here I am now: even after playing a bit of Metroid Prime 1, and completing Metroid Prime Hunters, Metroid Prime 3, Fusion, Zero Mission, Super Metroid on Wii VC, and after just beating Other M
(haven't gotten 100% items yet)
Besides the moments where the game's item placement and/or level design makes me feel like a donkey with the carrot on a stick or encourages horrible OCD behavior (not game specific to Other M), there were quite a few moments in Other M, where I thought WTH over and over...
(e.g. "where's Waldo" sections) Also, the queen "last boss" confused me many times. After Adam Malkovich's "departure" in order to kill Metroids that can't be killed so easily, I figured you couldn't kill the Metroids in the queen battle. After hearing some GAF'ers say the boss battles were easy, I felt pretty stupid that I actually died in that part. More on the queen later...
Throughout my entire Metroid experience (excluding the Prime games), I went through the majority of the games not fully understanding the controls. In Super Metroid, I didn't even know you could run for some time in the beginning (that made one room particularly confusing and frustrating). Wall jumping felt strange. To this day, I still don't know shinespark controls!
Back to Other M, even after beating the game, I'm still not sure about the controls. Another OTHER M moment that made me go WTH involving controls was
in the queen boss battle "3rd phase": what exactly does charging the bomb in morph ball mode when you don't even have power bombs? I died too many times in that beast's belly...
Despite the extra-weirdness of Other M, I like the game some. Of the Metroid games I've completed, I'm feeling right now:
Zero Mission > Fusion > Super Metroid > Prime 3 > Other M > Hunters
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
The only thing I don't like is when people 'write Sakamoto letters' saying what 'the fans want' and no longer express their own opinions but claim to represent 'fans everywhere' and demand things like "Samus is cooler when she doesn't talk, we don't want her to have feelings" - riiight. Speak for yourself, please. I'm a big fan and I must say that I really enjoy Other M Samus, to me this is the 'coolest' version of her since, ya know, she is a 'her' and not a stone carving this time around.
I don't have to agree with everything she thinks and feels - I'm content with the fact that, ya know, she even does think and feel.
I don't have to agree with everything she thinks and feels - I'm content with the fact that, ya know, she even does think and feel.
Version 3.0
Member
mantidor said:
Yeah, some people will accept any stupid explanation. A battle suit that disappears when you're most vulnerable unless it's malfunctioning has got to be one of the stupidest ever.
I wouldn't call those Other M "control issues". I'd call them quality issue. The game is so obtuse sometimes, I think nobody played it before release. It's terrible in that regard, definately one of, if not, my biggest gripe with the game.ptown said:
And Hunters should be nuked to oblivion.
Version 3.0
Member
John Harker said:
Those are some amazingly low standards. Personally, I'd rather starve than eat shit, but to each his own.
Aside from that, though, it takes a real lack of attention and imagination to think none of the other games show that Samus thinks and feels.
_Alkaline_ said:
I am not sure what being on a ship has to do with legitimizing the game as atmospheric. Fusion copies the same setup and setting, but the ship actually looks like a place thats been overrun by monsters. The Bottle Ship, despite becoming hostile and the monsters let loose, looks surrpisingly clean and sterile. If the monsters weren't there, you'd have no idea that this ship was in any danger.
Compare that to how the research ship and crashed ship look in Super. Compare it to the crashed frigate in Prime, compare it to the ships in Corruption, all human places of disarray, where you could visually tell there was something wrong by just stepping on to them.
See above.
See above.
Are you British?
jufonuk
not tag worthy
etiolate said:
gor Luv a duck come rest your plates of meat. would you adam and eve it?,would like some rosey Lee? ave a butchers at this 'ere metroid game I am playin' on me telee I only get 4 channels like..
chim chimeny chim chim cheroo, have a banana gord save 'er madgesty!!
on a more serious note I want my night shifts over so I can crack on and complete this fine game.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Bang-up, the word he so obviously chose tore my heart asunder. Memories from distant threads came rushing back. I was so naive. Naive and a junior member. I wasn't prepared to accept Anihawk's sarcasm, despite the tag bestowed upon him by the federation of moderators...AniHawk said:
its different yes, but its still metroid, it reminds me of super more than fusion for some reason.MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I'm not speaking for fans everywhere. I know there are some people that will defend the terrible story, characterizations and awkward controls in this game no matter what.John Harker said:
I've been following thru this thread pretty closely and I can say that I'm not the only one who shares the points I made. Yes, I'm the one that wrote it, but people continuously complain about the same issues. It isn't rocket science.Kard8p3 said:
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Leondexter said:
This is a videogame. You don't need Oscar-calibur story telling to "get it" :lol
I liked the story. It was just terribly written. It's a Japenese game, hell, a Nintendo game. I think peoples expectations were just far too high in this regard. I liked it for what it was, not what it wasn't ::shrug:: People go ga ga over Master Cheif, and while I enjoy Halo, he's almost the worst kind of lead character - he's not the silent type like Link, he isn't the swarthy Nathan Drake - he's just a one dimentional army boy who tosses in a one liner every now and then. Samus went for a happy medium, well, she had some really awkward lines, but at least she felt alive.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I think you're missing the entire point of the argument. The Metroid series has always portrayed a sense of emotion. The thing is, the player put their own feelings into the character because Samus was for the most part silent. That doesn't mean she should never talk or that a story shouldn't be present. What I'm saying is that people will always be more connected with something when they can either put their own feelings into it (like some music) or the story is told in an Oscar caliber way, for example Forest Gump. I'm pretty sure everyone felt sad when Jenny died in that movie. The point is, they failed on both of these attempts with Other M. They need to get it right, so the best solution in my mind is to keep the voice acting to a minimum and whenever she does talk, make sure that the translation is coherent and that the actor is portraying the correct emotion. The fact that you agree with me on the point that story is terribly written when you previously called me out on not speaking for the fans is bit puzzling though.John Harker said:
etiolate said:
True, the Orpheon and Valhalla are more apparently in bad condition. As for the Bottle ship it is also in a apparent state of chaos. First of all the power is off when you arrive, an elevator is seen destroyed at ground level with glass and debris everywhere. Also there are places where there were apparent explosions, with a lot of stuff that is turned over and in disarray. I wouldn't exactly call that clean and sterile. There are some sections where there has been no obvious havoc and therefore have clean appearances but the entire ship is most definitely not squeaky clean
There be spoilers in this vid.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2015-Metroid-Other-M
I disagree but to each his own.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2015-Metroid-Other-M
I disagree but to each his own.
Mejilan said:
I thought the controls and level design were good. I thought the graphics were some of the best on the wii but I will agree they should go back to the typical metroid music for the next game. I liked the soundtrack to this game but I prefer the traditional style.
TheKingsCrown
Banned
Completely disagree. Other M is a great game. But this is still hilarious, as it is certainly a valid take. :lolKard8p3 said:
Rocket Punch
Member
Confession time: I stopped playing this game at "Adam hasn't authorized the use of bombs."
WHAT KIND OF STUPID BULLSHIT IS THIS?????????????????/ FFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
MadOdorMachine said:
Look, I'd agree with you (and others who push this point harder) if Metroid has had a series of games with the next gen graphical ability to properly portray emotion. Several game series have had this. Hell, even Link has had this. However, Samus has not benefitted from this. You can thonestly tell me you got enough of a read on the feelings and emotions of Samus' physical actions coming out of Metroid and Super Metroid. Metroid you didn't even know it was a woman! She had her helmet on nearly the entire time in both games. Are you basing your conclusions on her emotions via her physical reactions during Smash Bros? C'mon... Prime would have been perfect, but being First Person, you are limited to a walking statue tank. You see her eyes, yes, but I'd argue you see sadness in them more than calm, cool, ruthlessness which everyone seens to want Samus to be.
Normally, I completely agree with you. In many game series, a silent protagnist is easily enough identafiable based on their facial reactions or body movements, and in older games, their written dailgioue or their 2D portrait portrayels. However, Samus has had none of this. So most of it is in fans heads. Other M gave a voice, and like it or not, it's what was always going on in Samus's head - or so says her father anyway.
Rocket Punch
Member
The problem with giving a personality to Samus is even more basic than what you guys make it out to be.
Nobody wants to play as a wimpy videogame character. If you're gonna have your heroine kick all kinds of ass then retreat to a corner to cry people with naturally feel rejection towards her.
You play games to be empowered and obtain control of your environment. It is completely arbitrary to have a character kill the boss, then turn around and realize he/she is filled with insecurites. Wheather people want to accept it, when you play as a videogame character you become that character. You look for affinity in his/her actions. If the character reacts in a way you would disapprove of you feel offended simply because this feeling is imposed on you unwillingly and unnaturally. Miyamoto has been wise in keeping Link silent for so long, I just wish the same had been decided for Samus.
Nobody wants to play as a wimpy videogame character. If you're gonna have your heroine kick all kinds of ass then retreat to a corner to cry people with naturally feel rejection towards her.
You play games to be empowered and obtain control of your environment. It is completely arbitrary to have a character kill the boss, then turn around and realize he/she is filled with insecurites. Wheather people want to accept it, when you play as a videogame character you become that character. You look for affinity in his/her actions. If the character reacts in a way you would disapprove of you feel offended simply because this feeling is imposed on you unwillingly and unnaturally. Miyamoto has been wise in keeping Link silent for so long, I just wish the same had been decided for Samus.