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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him

What's with dragging the Prime games into the discussion? They're great games, and the concensus (as much as there can be) on that is long since cemented. Trying to drag them down won't make Other M any better, and it's a poor comparison in any case since they're very different games.
 
Ridley327 said:
You need six energy cells to beat Prime 3. The game hands you four, including one at the beginning of the game and one that is literally right outside the Valhalla.
That one was actually the last one I ended up getting, funnily enough. Even once I knew which room it was supposed to be in, I still had a hard finding it... felt so stupid once I finally did notice it...
 
Pyrokai said:
Damn.

Just once I want to talk about this game with a bunch of people who enjoyed it. I just can't, no matter how hard I try, understand the hate for this game. It's been a long time since I've played a game in 5-6 hour chunks like I did this one, but I did. And I loved it. I also love the 2D and Prime Metroid games. Am I doing it wrong? Am I allowed to like them all? Because I do.

Edit: Ugh.....not what I wanted to be at the top of a page :(

Don't worry, you're not the only one.

I actually beat the game in one day - two 7-hour stints. Was fantastic.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Leondexter said:
What's with dragging the Prime games into the discussion? They're great games, and the concensus (as much as there can be) on that is long since cemented. Trying to drag them down won't make Other M any better, and it's a poor comparison in any case since they're very different games.

You're absolutely right about the Prime games. There's no need for people to drag them down in defense of Other M. I love Other M but I love the Prime games too and think both are great in their own way.
 

Boney

Banned
Don't get me wrong, I love the Prime games as well. Each one less with each passing game, but great nonetheless. Room by room design was Retro's greatest strength thanks to some of the best art direction in the industry and some great clever puzzles in almost every room. Overall map structure is nothing special at all.

Just drawing strengths between each game in the series.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Map structure is half of what made those games amazing, in my opinion. As you go through what is essentially a linear path in a world that rapidly opens itself to you with each new power up and boss fight, you're guided passed so many cool optional powerups, rooms an puzzles. Every room had a place, each shortcut is cleverly made available with each new powerup and everything makes sense in the fiction (or is at least believable, hello morph ball switches and tunnels). You get a really feeling of place. Going back to those games after all this time is amazing, nearly every room made an imprint in my memory in a way the generic space hallways and charisma-less hologram rooms didn't.

The Prime games are all about map design and how it enables you to smoothly move from one place to another. I could count on one hand the games in a 3D space that feel as good to navigate. That's my definition of special.

That being said, Prime 3 didn't quite leave me as impressed. I need to replay it.
 

mantidor

Member
Boney said:
Discussions have ramifications. The Prime series does backtracking the wrong way.

This is wrong!

I find interesting to bring back the Prime games only for comparison purposes. Backtracking/exploration is essential to the Metroid experience and every game has it's ups and downs when dealing with this.

I am of the opinion that Other M is in the low tier regarding that, actually is the bottom, if we ignore stuff like hunters or pinball. In Other M the exploration/backtracking is entirely optional, it only actually happens in the post-game, the rest is as linear as any other normal action game, yes you go revisit some areas but it's practically irrelevant, the game actually locks the doors you are not supposed to use, not to mention the annoying invisible walls. Sometimes I didn't even realized I was revisiting a previous area, the bottle ship design is very monotone and repetitive also, it doesn't give you that feeling of of previous Metroid games. It's far more accessible to a general audience though.

The prime games are in the middle really, the problem is that the game expects it's players to be Metroid veterans (which I'm not sure is a bad thing), some people see the keys/artifacts/ as a way to force backtracking, but for players who like exploration and don't miss little details the moment you are required to have these items you probably already have some if not most of them, the clues the games give were also pretty awesome, much better than the where's waldo moments or the over the shoulder sections, it was really a nice detective part, and highly enjoyable, but I can see some people not liking it.

The best for me are Zero Mission and Super, the games are just so tightly designed, Zero Mission gets extra points for being designed with sequence breaking in mind (something impossible in Other M, as far as I know), maybe is the advantage of not having to worry about an extra dimension, but it's just really cohesive, you don't have a sequence of levels or sectors, you have a world that slowly opens itself up, both games are such huge achievements regarding that.
 

etiolate

Banned
Dear Mr Screwattack blowhard,

Other M is not a risk taker. There is nothing new that it does. It is just another action title in a period of videogaming that is overrun with action titles, and yet another game that takes the cinematic route to try and impress. These are common, mundane elements in gaming today. To take a risk is to have made Other M 2dish like it is, but actually retain the thoughtful level design and unintrusive storytelling. That is an actual market risk. Sakamoto, by his own words, dumbed the game down.

Unfortunately for Big N, it will just end up alienating fans and not garnering new ones. If the series continues in this direction, they will have cheapened it and taken the power out of its name brand. In that way it is a risk, but I do not think they understood this fully. I think they thought this would make it more appealing to modern tastes and Japanese tastes.

But to consider the copy and pasting of common, overdone trends into a franchise as risk taking is a joke.

Sincerely,

People Who Don't Make Excuses For Letdowns
 

Kard8p3

Member
etiolate said:
Dear Mr Screwattack blowhard,

Other M is not a risk taker. There is nothing new that it does. It is just another action title in a period of videogaming that is overrun with action titles, and yet another game that takes the cinematic route to try and impress. These are common, mundane elements in gaming today. To take a risk is to have made Other M 2dish like it is, but actually retain the thoughtful level design and unintrusive storytelling. That is an actual market risk. Sakamoto, by his own words, dumbed the game down.

Unfortunately for Big N, it will just end up alienating fans and not garnering new ones. If the series continues in this direction, they will have cheapened it and taken the power out of its name brand. In that way it is a risk, but I do not think they understood this fully. I think they thought this would make it more appealing to modern tastes and Japanese tastes.

But to consider the copy and pasting of common, overdone trends into a franchise as risk taking is a joke.

Sincerely,

People Who Don't Make Excuses For Letdowns

Etiolate once again bashes someone who doesn't share his opinion? Surprise of the century.
 

shaowebb

Member
heringer said:
Very good video.

Not really. The guy inserts his own agenda into the entire controversy, and turns it from an objectivist report into a mocking of anyone who liked the FPS trilogy, and anyone who would have preferred Samus be left in her role of super efficient bounty hunter. Turning her into a space marine is just a way to clone the Halo franchise story pacing.

This guy just went on forever about feminism, stoicism, and his own agendas. He should have covered GAMEPLAY.
 

Kard8p3

Member
shaowebb said:
Not really. The guy inserts his own agenda into the entire controversy, and turns it from an objectivist report into a mocking of anyone who liked the FPS trilogy, and anyone who would have preferred Samus be left in her role of super efficient bounty hunter. Turning her into a space marine is just a way to clone the Halo franchise story pacing.

This guy just went on forever about feminism, stoicism, and his own agendas. He should have covered GAMEPLAY.

He was covering the controversy of Other M so in this case talking mostly about the story was the point.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
the guy posted a video on a website called Screwattack. I'm not really interested in listening to it.
 
Played a bit of Corruption today, and I have to say -- Other M is much more stylized and appropriate to the whole Metroid feel. In retrospect, the Prime games seem like some bizarre X-Files offshoot to the series that don't really belong.
 

Bizzyb

Banned
Rez said:
Map structure is half of what made those games amazing, in my opinion. As you go through what is essentially a linear path in a world that rapidly opens itself to you with each new power up and boss fight, you're guided passed so many cool optional powerups, rooms an puzzles. Every room had a place, each shortcut is cleverly made available with each new powerup and everything makes sense in the fiction (or is at least believable, hello morph ball switches and tunnels). You get a really feeling of place. Going back to those games after all this time is amazing, nearly every room made an imprint in my memory in a way the generic space hallways and charisma-less hologram rooms didn't.

The Prime games are all about map design and how it enables you to smoothly move from one place to another. I could count on one hand the games in a 3D space that feel as good to navigate. That's my definition of special.

That being said, Prime 3 didn't quite leave me as impressed. I need to replay it.


I'm replaying Prime 3 and holy Crap the art design is INCREDIBLE. I like how they tried to flesh out Samus without having to have her speak, esp with her using her ship more than just a Get from point A to B kind of entity.

I noticed that the music for the Boss fights seems a little weak though. Outside of that it has a great soundtrack as well.

Other M may not have a Prime kind of excellence but I still hold it in high regard. It's Fusion in 3d and I loved Fusion
 
etiolate said:
Dear Mr Screwattack blowhard,

Other M is not a risk taker. There is nothing new that it does. It is just another action title in a period of videogaming that is overrun with action titles, and yet another game that takes the cinematic route to try and impress. These are common, mundane elements in gaming today. To take a risk is to have made Other M 2dish like it is, but actually retain the thoughtful level design and unintrusive storytelling. That is an actual market risk. Sakamoto, by his own words, dumbed the game down.

Unfortunately for Big N, it will just end up alienating fans and not garnering new ones. If the series continues in this direction, they will have cheapened it and taken the power out of its name brand. In that way it is a risk, but I do not think they understood this fully. I think they thought this would make it more appealing to modern tastes and Japanese tastes.

But to consider the copy and pasting of common, overdone trends into a franchise as risk taking is a joke.

Sincerely,

People Who Don't Make Excuses For Letdowns

That is not true at all. Trying to do 2D and 3D at the same time is a huge risk. Just because something doesn't conform to the way a game was in the past does not take its riskiness away.

Also, if Other M alienates current fans it doesn't matter - the games have sold pretty poorly if I remember correctly.
 
Rez said:
having just finished Echoes, I was reminded why backtracking was so important to Metroid. Yes, you backtrack, but that feeling of opening a previously locked door with a new beam or visor, or jumping up to a new height with the grapple hook or space jump is just phenominal. Retro really had that world design down to a beautiful science. You have to backtrack, but the amount of things you can do on your way, that make you feel like you're improvising, is everything classic Metroid was to me.

The Prime series did backtracking better than any game I can think of at the moment.

Other M just feels scripted, I guess. No improvisational play at all. If you're going to do a heavily scripted game, then your competition isn't the Metroid series, it's stuff like Valve's work.

Sorry for double post but I just noticed this.


No, I do not agree sir.

As someone who has played every Metroid since NES, and whose first game was Metroid, I disagree with your characterization of echoes.

Prime was fantastic in my book, I'd give it a 9.7. Retro nailed it, it was a stroke of genius, though I bet they nailed it a bit with Miyamoto's help. But Echoes was mundane, boring and tedious. It had none of the environmentally interesting things that Prime had to my recollection, and it was difficult. Backtracking, as I said before, relies entirely upon environments in order for it to create utility to the player IMHO. If the environments are amazingly and freshly crafted as Prime's were, or as Super Metroid's were, then you end up with backtracking which at worst, is not painful, and at best, is orgasmic.

But if the environments are neither of the above, you end up with backtracking that is one thing, and one thing only - painful. Echoes was 100% painful to me, and I would surmise to a lot of other people. Corruption significantly improved it, but neither came close to Prime in terms of the awe that the original environments and backtracking created. Other M discards the need to have amazingly interesting environments and instead takes a linear path that substitutes linearity for amazing environments. While we'd love for every Metroid game to perfect environmentalization as it was in the past, game designers are finite creatures that focus on one thing at a time, and then in a sequel focus on them all. Their focus in Other M was very clearly - 1. add narrative and cinematography, 2. shake up gameplay, 3. make a fun game.

I'd say they successfully, though not perfectly, achieved all 3. Just my opinion though, and nothing against everyone else.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
What other M taught me is that the best metroid game is yet to come. Both Super metroid and Prime 1 where in some ways the pinnacle of their genres (and in some ways maybe even gaming) when they were released.

The best metroid title will combine the good things all the previous and very different games did.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
it's hard to discuss much with you Greg, because you use a lot of words to not say much. I'm not taking a cheap shot here, but you label things without actually using examples from the games themselves to actually bring home what you're saying.

why were the environments in Echoes painful? why was what I had to say about improvisational play and the way it funnels you through an open environment not fun? why shouldn't we expect a AAA experience from a game released from Nintendo in 2010? why should be forgiving just because they're trying something new?

it's hard to make a suggestion or offer any sort of insight when you're just throwing subjective statements out without actually detailing why you think that and using examples. that's the problem with this thread. lots of people throwing opinions at each other without actually using examples that someone who disagrees with your opinion can relate to and work with.

lots of nothing is being said in a circular motion.
 

sfried

Member
GregLombardi said:
Corruption significantly improved it, but neither came close to Prime in terms of the awe that the original environments and backtracking created.
Not for me. IMO Corruption is a significant step back in terms of Retro's world design. They nailed it with Prime, dunno if they improved on it in Echoes, but Corruption's backtracking was just dreadful (no pun intended), leading you to dead ends and forcing you to make a complete U turn. Prime at least got the part of sealing an entrance shut on one side and exiting through another after a significant event occurs. You are given the opportunity to revisit the area later in due course and by that time you would have all the necessary tools to unlock all the puzzles you encounter. Prime 3 does a lot of "Sorry Samus, can't go through here. Why not just turn back and fly your ship over here in this area?", which is stupid considering the way even Other M has handled it.
 

Poyunch

Member
Yeah Prime 3's level design just made the game feel disjointed and unnatural. The "seamless-ness" was ignored for the sake of improving the backtracking.

Coming from one who enjoyed Prime 2 the most out of the trilogy, I guess I'm out of the norm.
 
Kard8p3 said:
http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-40-Heavens-to-Metroid

Here's another video discussing the Other M controversy.

Very nice. Love the dig at NeoGAF too :lol

Are we discussing Corruption now? I loved the shit out of that game, probably my favorite of the Prime games although Prime 1 has a special place in my heart because it introduced me to Metroid.

I'm playing through Super Metroid now and I'm already at the Wrecked Spaceship area. I've clocked in less than 2 hours and I'm assuming I have only another 2-3 hours left in the game. It's incredibly short.

I also don't like the backtracking or being completely lost without clues. It's awesome when I accidentally stumble onto something but I'd much rather keep it moving.
 
GregLombardi said:
Sorry for double post but I just noticed this.


No, I do not agree sir.

As someone who has played every Metroid since NES, and whose first game was Metroid, I disagree with your characterization of echoes.

Prime was fantastic in my book, I'd give it a 9.7. Retro nailed it, it was a stroke of genius, though I bet they nailed it a bit with Miyamoto's help. But Echoes was mundane, boring and tedious. It had none of the environmentally interesting things that Prime had to my recollection, and it was difficult. Backtracking, as I said before, relies entirely upon environments in order for it to create utility to the player IMHO. If the environments are amazingly and freshly crafted as Prime's were, or as Super Metroid's were, then you end up with backtracking which at worst, is not painful, and at best, is orgasmic.

But if the environments are neither of the above, you end up with backtracking that is one thing, and one thing only - painful. Echoes was 100% painful to me, and I would surmise to a lot of other people. Corruption significantly improved it, but neither came close to Prime in terms of the awe that the original environments and backtracking created. Other M discards the need to have amazingly interesting environments and instead takes a linear path that substitutes linearity for amazing environments. While we'd love for every Metroid game to perfect environmentalization as it was in the past, game designers are finite creatures that focus on one thing at a time, and then in a sequel focus on them all. Their focus in Other M was very clearly - 1. add narrative and cinematography, 2. shake up gameplay, 3. make a fun game.

I'd say they successfully, though not perfectly, achieved all 3. Just my opinion though, and nothing against everyone else.

Echoes rocked. Plain and simple.

My boy Rez knows what's up.
 

etiolate

Banned
GregLombardi said:
That is not true at all. Trying to do 2D and 3D at the same time is a huge risk. Just because something doesn't conform to the way a game was in the past does not take its riskiness away.

Also, if Other M alienates current fans it doesn't matter - the games have sold pretty poorly if I remember correctly.

2.5d has been around since the post 16bit era began. As for your third sentence, it doesn't make sense in reply. I think his argument was that it did not conform to the past is why it was risky, and I was pointing out it was just doing it by adopting generic trends which takes away all its "riskiness". It was also trying to go back to the past(Metroid 1) in a very shallow concept of the Metroid design(aka Sakamoto doesn't know how to do controls in 3d).
 
Played a bit of Corruption today, and I have to say -- Other M is much more stylized and appropriate to the whole Metroid feel. In retrospect, the Prime games seem like some bizarre X-Files offshoot to the series that don't really belong.

Yep, that's pretty much how I feel too, except 'for the 'in retrospect' part - that the Primes were at odds with the rest of the series was pretty obvious from the second they mentioned the FP-word.

What's with dragging the Prime games into the discussion?

It's pretty hard not to drag them into the discussion when the #1 reason I'm so enthusiastic about Other M is because it gives me what the Prime games never did nor could - the feeling of playing a real Metroid game.
 
I just realised I forgot to give my thoughts on the game. Be prepared for a pretty long post. I'll spoiler tag it all too.

First off, boy is it great to have the old Samus back. I'm talking about the one who moves like lighting, pounds the shit out of enemies and does flip 'n' shit. The Prime games, as good as they were, were sorely lacking in converting Samus' agility to 3D. They got slightly better at it each time - indeed the screw attack was well implemented in Corruption after a lukewarm try in Echoes - but playing Other M made me realise how much I missed her normal movement. It doesn't hurt either that she moves better in Other M than any other game in the series.

Let's get this out of the way. The story. Everyone seems to be throwing their arms up and crying out in unison that Metroid games should not have a significant focus on story. To that I'll say that Fusion showed it could be done and done well - it's issues weren't related to story but rather level design that failed to rub shoudlers with Super. Other M is very much Fusion in 3D - once again you're directed where to go, you're on a ship that replicates different environments, and you're confined to certain sectors for a considerable period of time. The last part means that often you'll want to go back to other sectors and use your new-found abilities to acquire items, but can't do so because it's locked. Sometimes this can be frustrating, other times it's understandable as a device to keep the plot moving. I won't say that I overly like this method - personally I prefer Super's more open-ended approach - but at the same time it doesn't in any way stop Other M from being fun.

The writing itself ranges from ok to laughable. Too many sentences are drawn out with adjectives and unneeded filler. Some of the latter cutscenes basically explain the plot to you which is unsatisfying, but almost required since the game isn't overly good at explaining what is going on as you play. Obviously there's a lot more to talk about in this game compared to Super or Zero Mission, and thus their minimalist approaches would be hard to work around, but it still doesn't mean that a game should feed you story details.

The cutscenes themselves are well shot, choreographed and edited. The scene where Adam commits suicide is really well put together and though games rarely pull me into their stories, cutscenes like this helped improve my opinion of such exposition in Metroid games. I definitely think it's a series that can place an emphasis on story. The universe is interesting and detailed, and I have to give credit to both Other M and (especially) Fusion for adding a lot more to the series in terms of narrative. I think it's fair to say that despite the fact Fusion regressed in terms of level design, it really helped push the series forward in other ways.

Speaking of Fusion, I really loved the way in which the game is foreshadowed in Other M. The game does a really good job of showing how things came to be on the BSL and, given how much happened in Fusion, it was a great decision to have Other M take place between Super and Fusion since there was so much we wanted to know. Not everything is explained, but things like the cloning of Metroids and Samus' relationship with Adam were well explained and made sense. I also really liked the nods to several Fusion bosses - most notably Neo Ridley (and the carcass before room MW which fully explains how the GF got him onto the BSL) and Nightmare, who was a huge surprise. I love how both bosses, once defeated, remain on the bottle shit until the end. Returning to their rooms in the post-credit sequence shows that they're gone - a clear indication that they were taken the GF to the BSL before the Bottle Ship was to be destroyed.

The 'return' of Mother Brain, though a little contrived, was a pretty interesing plot to structure the game around. We're still yet to get a 3D version of the Mother Brain fight, and I was wondering if we would in Sector Zero before it was explained that Mother Brain's AI was converted into a human, or Melissa Bergman, so there went any chance of fighting her traditional form. I think the game a few things too obvious - that MB was a crook, and that Ridley was the creature. It just ruined the element of surprise. That said, on the flipside I thought the whole thing of David Beckham being the deleter was well-done. Not so much the plot point itself - in fact after an interesting start it suddenly died off 3/4 into the game - but rather the fact that one had to look for clues to figure out it was James (planting the explosives when you first enter the exam centre, the faded 07, finding his dead body in the same room as MB). I somewhat wish the rest of the game had the same level of clever subtlety. Oh, and Anthony was a pretty great character and I actually cared about his death. I wouldn't mind seeing him again sometime down the line.

Anyway, enough about the story. Let's talk about the combat, which the series has never really been about. Aside from bosses, combat was merely a means to an end rather than means itself. Other M stays pretty true to this, though there is definitely a larger focus since most rooms feature more (and harder) enemies than other Metroid games. This isn't really a bad thing though because the combat system itself is really well done. The auto-aim feature is a godsend and I can't believe people were lamenting its inclusion prior to the game's release. It's brilliant;y executed and rarely lets you shoot in the wrong direction. People might point out the lack of 'skill' required to down enemies but the series has never really been around precise shooting, but rather timing, as element that is still vital in Other M. Knowing when to pull the trigger is a must, but now there are even more elements to it due to the addition of the melee moves. I thought the overblast feature, though slightly cumbersome at times, was good fun to pull off and prevent you from being too grounded during combat. The lethal strike is godly and works as a great conclusion to fights. The sense move on the other hand looks fantastic, and is real fun to pull off, but is perhaps just a bit too easy to abuse. In fact some fights (ie: Seeker Missile boss) are seriously difficult without constantly press the d-pad to use sense.

Speaking of difficulty, I would definitely rather Other M up there with the highest in the franchise. Metroid has never really been a difficult series - in fact only the first two, plus Echoes, come to mind as games that are notably challenging. What makes Other M a tough game isn't so much the fights themselves, but rather the one-hit kills. There's a lot of them in this game, and some of them you can barely predict to happen (ie: elevator death). They can be pretty fun to have a laugh and shake your head about, but I dunno, I just don't think they have a place in Metroid games. It's just a bit too trial-and-error for me and didn't mesh well with the series. Besides, Metroid's difficulty has always come from figuring out where to go. It's safe to say that Other M is the easiest game in the series to figure out what to do next - even easier than Fusion. This is a pretty big disappointment. Don't get me wrong - the core Metroid formula of acquiring new abilties to unlock previous areas is still going strong in this game - but rarely do you get lost. I'm not saying every Metroid game has to be like the original, but it's always nice and satisfying when you figure out where to go after an hour or so of searching around. There's none of this here.

The method of acquiring new upgrades themselves in the game is really contrived. There's only a few items that you'll find on your own by beating bosses. The rest are authorised, either by Adam or yourself, and though it sounds okay in theory its actual implementation in often lacking. Sometimes it makes sense, such as having to wait to be authorised to use super missiles and power bombs, as they are considerably powerful and dangerous weapons. Having to wait to activate your varia suit or grapple beam is just stupid. These aren't the only examples of poor implementation, but they are perhaps the strongest. The former, because you have to take heat damage for a considerable period of time (with no challenge from Samus) before Adam suddenly allows to activate it. The latter, because early in the game you can't progress without the grapple beam, and yet Adam waits until hours later to let you finally use it. Even worse is the fact that when you finally are given it, it's just a one-hit kill cutscene and you're rushed to use it. Anyone who is new to the Metroid series will probably say hello to a death here.

Which brings me to one of my bigger complains in the game. And it's only a specific moment. Seeing the Queen Metroid was a brilliant moment for a huge Metroid II fan like me. She looked exactly like I had imagined, she was creepy as fuck (the scene where she sucks Ridley dry is awesome) and the first two phases against her were great fun, albeit a little easy. But the third phase is just ridiculous. Shooting her stomach is no problem, but when you're forced to go morph ball inside of her your first instinct is to use bombs. But it doesn't do anything, so you die (and quickly too - the window of time here is remarkably limiting). Honestly, I thought my game was glitched. And I tried again and again to figure out what I was doing wrong, and it was really souring me on the fight. Eventually I pressed start only to notice that, for some reason, I suddenly had power bombs. This was absolute bullshit and it annoys me to no end even typing it now. The game gives you absolutely no indication - not even a prompt on screen - that you now have access to power bombs. Obviously in hindsight it made sense that power bombs were the answer, but you hadnt used them since two minutes into the game, nor had you been told that you could now use them. Poor, poor game design. If the game had activated power bombs earlier, then there wouldn't have been a problem since you would have been conditioned (or at least hinted) to use them against the Queen.

That said, the bosses in the game are pretty fantastic all up. The Ridley fight, from the introduction to the fight itself (and its conclusion) was seriously well done. Ridley is easily one of Nintendo's best villains and he's better conveyed here than in any other Metroid game. The fight is fun, frantic and beautifully cinematic. We also get the best rendition of the Ridley theme in all its orchestrated glory. As mentioned before, Nightmare was a genuine surprise and a terrific boss fight (both times). Also, the gravity sequence prior to facing him was complete and utter genius and would compare favourably to some of the work in Mario Galaxy. This section of the game - from the gravity chamber to facing Nightmare to entering Sector Zero - felt the most inspired to me and one of the great sections of the entire series.

Other bosses that I thought worked really well was the volcano boss and, of course, Phantoon. The former was the first 'real' boss fight in the game and despite having to play four hours to finally get to it, the payoff was pretty immense. Freezing its hand, running up its arm and jumping onto its head was some SOTC shit and genuinely exhilarating. The fight against Phantoon was another massive surprise (the game has some serious fan-service) and he both animated and fought better than I could have hoped. I'm not overly sure why he was actually in the game, but I'm not complaning. He was awesome. Just awesome. And a great pay-off for completing the game, a much better finish (along the best escape sequence of the series) than the initial ending, which I thought lacked polish and was pretty confusing as to what to do (not a great idea to put one of the shoddy Where'd Waldo moments as the 'final' section of the game).

Which brings me to the Where's Waldo moments. They're...not good. Fucking annoying is a better way of putting it. Replays will paint them in a much nicer picture, since you'll actually know what to point at, but the first time around they are just bad. Too often the thing you're supposed to point out is either insignificant or indistinguishable. The worst examples I can think of are the green blood (green on green? you mad?), the kihunter cocoons in the dark corner and the tiny logo on the Space Pirate. The green one is especially bad since it comes straight after you find out Lyle is dead, so you'd think that you're supposed to look at his body. But no, you're supposed to look at green blood on green grass 10m behind you. I can totally understand why they're in the game, and if they were well implemented then they would genuinely cinematic and impressive, even fun, but they're not. They're not at all.

The third-person stuff fares a little better, but it just feels a bit pointless. It definitely offers a more brooding, cinematic element to what would just be running through corridors, but it feels unecessary because either (a) you can't shoot so nothing can happening anyway or (b) you'd be better off running instead, such as when chasing after MB. It just feels a bit clunky and not nearly as fleshed out as it could have been. The RE4 camera can do wonders for atmosphere and dicovering things, but since the Bottle Ship isn't very interactive, these sections just feel pretty pointless.

Visually the game is pretty damn solid. No, it doesn't have the art direction of the Prime games, but it also isn't developed by the ridiculously talented Retro Studios either. What do you get is a very nice realisation of the Metroid universe in 3D. Indeed, in some ways it's a more accurate reflection of the typical art and colours of the 2D games than the Prime series. The regular enemies and bosses look terrific, Samus herself looks better than ever (why oh why could Retro never seem to get her Zero Suit form right?), the animation is just sublime (I love how she uses her hand to lift herself over slight obstructions as opposed to forcing you to jump over it) and the framerate holds up quite nicely, though it does dip in larger areas and towards the end of the game when you have access to visually demanding abilities. Texturing is hit and miss - metallic corridors and the cyrosphere look fantastic, whilst the outside lava and canyon areas don't hold up so nicely. The most visually impressive parts of the game include the water-logged forest room, the giant desert refinery (for sheer scope), the morph ball tunnel in the Cyrosphere that looks out onto space, and the fight against Phantoon which was pretty mind-blowing for the Wii actually. There aren't any Phendrana Drifts or Sanctuary Fortress moments here but the game looks great regardless. As a side note, though I thought the loading kept up nicely throughout most of the game, it takes a real dive towards the end. Particularly in the post-game. I was actually getting a little worried about my Wii.

The main thing that the Team Ninja got right was the sense of speed. Metroid has become increasingly fast paced over the years in its 2D installments, but the Prime series slowed it down majorly. Other M is back to form, execept it's even faster, and running through the corridors when collecting items near the end of the game is seriously satisftying. The wave and plasma beams are in top form here, but the real star of the show is the speed booster and the space jump/screw attack. Retro never managed to get the speed booster in their games, and it's a shame because Team Ninja pulled it off brilliantly. It's easy to use and the shinespark feature is so well done that I'm not sure how they managed to do it. I was in awe the first time I used it. As for the space jump, there are no words. They got it exactly right, though I do miss the verticality that it provided in the 2D games (it's pretty much a horizontal affair here, though it does offer a bit more initial reach). Also, a nod to the scene where Samus authorises it herself, which was actually pretty damn satisfying. Metroid games have always been really fun towards the end since you dominate areas you once struggled with, and Other M is no exception. In fact I felt more badass in this game than perhaps any of the others, and that's no mean feat.

As for the expansions, they're pretty nicely hidden and though none of them are as tough as some of the bastards in Super (turtle wall) or Echoes (morph ball puzzle #498) they're still real fun to find. I do think having them all avaliable on the map after the credits was a tad too easy on the player, since it removed the ability to keep a mental note, but at the same time there were a few shinespark sections to reach high-up places that I never would have thought of otherwise. Morph ball puzzles are pretty streamlined here, and it's a shame not to have the excellent spider or boost balls, but these sections are still fun and are about the same level as the other 2D Metroids. The expansions themselves are pretty helpful, particularly the accel charge, and I like how they broke energy tanks up into parts. That said, missile tanks proved fairly worthless since you can replenish them at any time, and though I love this addition to the game and the way it speeds things up, it takes so little time to replenish them that the tanks become useless. On the other hand, the concentration move is often incredibly difficult to pull off in the heat of battle, and lead to some of my most tense moments in the game. Personally, I loved it.

I've heard complaints on the music (or lack of it) and to some degree I can agree. Metroid games have always been moody and atmospheric whilst still having genuinely enjoyable and melodic themes. Other M, save for a few nice exceptions, doesn't stray past your typical subdued zelda dungeon stuff. There's no Red Brinstar or Kraid's Lair or Tunnel theme here. What you do get is a soundtrack very similar to Fusion's - a lot of moody background pieces and a few highlight tracks in between. The sequence after Sector Zero is destroyed features a beautiful piece that doesn't last nearly long enough, since it's highly emotional and energising. I'm not going to condemn Other M's soundtrack, since it was actually pretty solid, but solid isn't a word that typicall describes a Metroid-standard soundtrack. Hopefully Kenji gets a call once the next Metroid project rolls around. One thing is for sure at least, orchestration works great for the series. I'd love to see it become the norm.

So that pretty much covers it. If I were to sum it up in dot-point form, here's how it would look:

On the Plus Side:

- Agile Samus is back and more manouvorable than ever.
- Additions to combat are well-implemented.
- Shinespark and space jump are fantastically well-realised.
- Wonderfully composed cinematics.
- Mostly brilliant boss fights (and best Ridley battle in the series)
- Some clever plot points.
- Fantastic enemy, boss and Samus models.
- Wonderful animation and solid visual effects.
- Very nice nods to II, Super and especially Fusion.
- Some amazing set-pieces (ie: gravity section)
- Fantastic post-credits section.
- Best escape sequence in the series


On the Negative Side
- Too many one-hit kills.
- Some inane design decisions (Authorization, Queen Metroid's last form)
- Writing leaves a lot to be desired.
- Environments aren't as well crafted as Prime series.
- Too linear compared to past Metroid games (sans Fusion).
- 3rd person and (especially) Where's Waldo segments.
- NOW LOADING... in the post-game.
- Meh final story sequence.

Overall I seriously enjoyed it - any game that can make me sit down for up to seven hours straight is doing something very, very right. It's not my favourite Metroid game - it's just not designed well-enough to match it with the best in the series. That said, I was still pretty floored with the majority of the game and cannot comprehend how critical many have been about it. There are some poor design decisions in Other M, but for some reason the people who make such complaints seem to forget all the great things in the game. I think there's a seriously solid base here for future 3D Metroid titles. If they can remove the inane stuff and tighten up the graphics on level three, then Sakamoto could make something pretty mindblowing. As it stands, Other M comes close to reaching the stars but falls a little short along the way.
 

desertdroog

Member
Kard8p3 said:
http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-40-Heavens-to-Metroid

Here's another video discussing the Other M controversy.


This video is an interesting rebuttal to the G4 review and their subsequent defense of the review. One comment that stood out in the defense video of the G4 review was when Matt Keil stated that there were elements of S&M in this game.

As in Sado-Masocism?

Really? His comment was a one sentence barb that they never expanded on, because it would have been interesting to see how he could have fleshed out that particular argument. This shortly delved into Abbie and Matt's ruminations regarding how Samus uses the toilet while in the suit and other irrelevant points capping off their defense video. I wasn't swayed by either videos G4 offered up, but hey, variety is the spice of life. Though I do believe that another mechanic to get Samus items back to her would have been less jarring. Such as finding parts to repair her armaments or possibly having to restructure her suit's OS (is there even such a thing?) to gain her capabilities back. I'm no game designer so what do I really know?

The game does come off as being heavy handed towards Japanese sensibilities in its story telling, but I didn't care so much. Just as long as I could get back into some really heavy twitch shooting. Of which I still rate it an 8/10 due to my Metroid bias.

I still love the game Metroid: Other M weeks after I have put it away in my game cabinet. My only lament was that it was too short. The game hit its stride in the final quarter, including the post credits return. I hope Nintendo sees fit to give us another 3rd person Metroid game. While this isn't my most favorite Metroid game, I still regard it as a nice change of pace while getting back to the I.P.'s roots.
 

Struct09

Member
Completed the game last night. Overall I liked it, but it ranks among my least favorite Metroid games. There are moments of pure brilliance, but some odd design decisions lead to moments of frustration. I thought the story was fine, the problem being that it just wasn't a story that was well told.

I want to give props to the enemy variety in this game - it always felt like I was fighting something new and interesting.

_Alkaline_ said:
Which brings me to one of my bigger complains in the game. And it's only a specific moment. Seeing the Queen Metroid was a brilliant moment for a huge Metroid II fan like me. She looked exactly like I had imagined, she was creepy as fuck (the scene where she sucks Ridley dry is awesome) and the first two phases against her were great fun, albeit a little easy. But the third phase is just ridiculous. Shooting her stomach is no problem, but when you're forced to go morph ball inside of her your first instinct is to use bombs. But it doesn't do anything, so you die (and quickly too - the window of time here is remarkably limiting). Honestly, I thought my game was glitched. And I tried again and again to figure out what I was doing wrong, and it was really souring me on the fight. Eventually I pressed start only to notice that, for some reason, I suddenly had power bombs. This was absolute bullshit and it annoys me to no end even typing it now. The game gives you absolutely no indication - not even a prompt on screen - that you now have access to power bombs. Obviously in hindsight it made sense that power bombs were the answer, but you hadnt used them since two minutes into the game, nor had you been told that you could now use them. Poor, poor game design. If the game had activated power bombs earlier, then there wouldn't have been a problem since you would have been conditioned (or at least hinted) to use them against the Queen.

And I completely agree here, I can't believe they let something like this happen in a Nintendo game.
 

Bizzyb

Banned
Struct09 said:
Completed the game last night. Overall I liked it, but it ranks among my least favorite Metroid games. There are moments of pure brilliance, but some odd design decisions lead to moments of frustration. I thought the story was fine, the problem being that it just wasn't a story that was well told.

I want to give props to the enemy variety in this game - it always felt like I was fighting something new and interesting.



And I completely agree here, I can't believe they let something like this happen in a Nintendo game.


I never realized that as well, but I guess it's one of those "Any Objections, Adam?" kind of things. Remember, Samus has ALWAYS had access to her gear, she was just holding back. In a life or death situation she's not going to be worried about authorization but yeah, you got a point.
 
It also doesn't help that
you laid bombs inside the bitch's stomach to kill her in Metroid II, yet they do nothing to her in Other M. So even though the premise would be confusing for someone who didn't play RoS, it's just as confusing for Metroid II veterans since bombs are useless against her in Other M. Plus there was no power bomb in Metroid II.
 

Tenbatsu

Member
For
Queen Metroid third phase
, I killed it on my first try. I don't know but the first thing that came to my mind was to use 'that' so its not a game breaking deal for me.
 

JoeFu

Banned
Yeah, that part pissed me off too. I thought bombing its stomach would be the way to go like the final fight in Metroid II, but after dying a 3rd time I remembered she had power bombs and tried it anyways as I had nothing to lose. I was just going to start seconds before that section.

I also hope we see another Metroid in this style. Team Ninja is busy now and I hope someone like IS works along side Sakamoto for the next one as they have more 3D experience now with the Fire Emblems and stuff. There is a lot of gameplay elements similar to Super Paper Mario too such as 2D to 3D parts and whatnot. Hopefully the next game lets us use the analog stick or the CC. I didn't mind the NES style control, but I hate the small D-pad and it always feels like it's cutting into my thumbs.
 

heringer

Member
Eh, it took me a couple of tries to "get it", so it really wasn't a problem to me. I thought that
focusing on MB in the middle of the screen was way, way worse.
 

JoeFu

Banned
heringer said:
Eh, it took me a couple of tries to "get it", so it really wasn't a problem to me. I thought that
focusing on MB in the middle of the screen was way, way worse.

I think I hated that part so much I completely forgot about it...
 

heringer

Member
I was playing the game again yesterday and I realised why the game feels so good to play. At least one of the reasons.

It's the d-pad controls. That might sound like crazy talk, but I don't think the controls would be as enjoyable (to me) with an analog stick. I dunno, I just think that pressing a button feels good. It feels responsive and rewarding. It's that simple.

Granted, if the game wasn't designed to work with digital controls things could be frustrating. I can understand the hate though, since the d-pad is very small to some people (and that's why the option should be there). Thankfully, I really like the Wiimote d-pad. :D
 

giggas

Member
heringer said:
Eh, it took me a couple of tries to "get it", so it really wasn't a problem to me. I thought that
focusing on MB in the middle of the screen was way, way worse.

Yes, this. I must have tried to kill those monsters for a half hour until it dawned on me that maybe I wasn't doing it right.
 

rhino4evr

Member
So I thought I just beat it...but I guess I didn't? What's the point? Pretty stupid that you can't even use power bombs until after the credits roll. There is no possible way to get 100% before hand.

So is it worth playing further?

The final (all) boss was way too easy. Although a nice fan service. Also this game completely teases you into thinking you are going o fight the new
Mother Brain
but then you don't.

Overall I have mixed feelings...the coolest part for me was when the
Energy circles
started coming out of the wall. Too bad it wasn't going where I thought it was.
 

Boney

Banned
Great impressions _Alkaline_ , I agree with every one of your points except for the music, which I believe is up there with the best of the series and that melodic loops that allow you to identify a particular area isn't better alternative to in game music, they're both viable ways to use sound in a game. And when people say it's bad because it's a franchise game that goes 25 years back, where only recognisable melodies existed and therefore it should use that style forever really rubs me the wrong way.

But great impressions man.
 

Kard8p3

Member
rhino4evr said:
So I thought I just beat it...but I guess I didn't? What's the point? Pretty stupid that you can't even use power bombs until after the credits roll. There is no possible way to get 100% before hand.

So is it worth playing further?

The final (all) boss was way too easy. Although a nice fan service. Also this game completely teases you into thinking you are going o fight the new
Mother Brain
but then you don't.

Overall I have mixed feelings...the coolest part for me was when the
Energy circles
started coming out of the wall. Too bad it wasn't going where I thought it was.

You should absolutely play further.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
I just realised I forgot to give my thoughts on the game. Be prepared for a pretty long post. I'll spoiler tag it all too.

I agree with this post. Solid game, but lacks the polish of Prime (I'm going to use that as an example since that's the only other Metroid game I've played).

I like the map pointing you to the next save point, and the checkpoints (if you die, you don't necessarily have to start from the save point). One gripe is the first battle against the Seeker Missile boss where you have to get back on the platform every time you die (and fight the Space Pirates). However, the map and the in-game environment don't always mesh, and sometimes the level design can be constricted by the "room" format of the game. It's acknowledged in parts of Sector 1 (where you "disable" the virtual plantlife to reveal the room) but in other parts you think you can jump somewhere but can't (one example is the loading bay post-game where you can't access the missile expansion despite shinesparking up there). The icon revealing the hidden item is useful.

The "real" ending is great and the escape sequence is fantastic (ZSS yay), and they definitely make up for the anticlimactic final "battle" against MB and her minions. I was a little surprised that MB didn't transform into some giant creature to battle (maybe that's just me) and the Queen Metroid was too easy after dispatching the Metroids. As for the power bomb part, it happened so fast (the grappling/bombing/dying) that I figured it out quickly that power bombs were the answer.

As I'm not too familiar with the other Metroid games, I would've liked names for the bosses and I think Retro did a better job with enemy design (some of them, like that long-legged thing with the flipping weak point, are just bizarre).

For the story, yeah it's cheesy especially at the beginning, but I suppose it's there for those unfamiliar with the series. Adam's sacrifice was well done, and while the name "Deleter" sounds like a bad literal translation, that subplot worked pretty well. I found it a little funny though that Samus tried to calm both MB's by saying she's an "independent bounty hunter". I'm sure that's just what the women wanted to hear.

Graphics are gorgeous but can be inconsistent. Didn't really pay attention to the music but the piano theme is beautiful.

I had no problems with the controls. I have big hands yet they never got cramped on the d-pad and movement was no problem.
 

wazoo

Member
I expect a Metroid on 3DS. It is already surprising that we got 2 metroid on GBA and not really a true one on DS. MAybe it has to do with no MEtroid on N64. I expect the Wii engine to be ported on 3DS and a 2.5D Metroid to come soon.
 

Struct09

Member
heringer said:
Eh, it took me a couple of tries to "get it", so it really wasn't a problem to me. I thought that
focusing on MB in the middle of the screen was way, way worse.

Heh, it was the opposite for me. As mentioned above, I had problems with
power-bombing the Queen Metroid
, but
got the idea to focus on MB right away (picked up on it due to the cutscene)
 
I find the severe hatred spewed upon this game somewhat embarrassing, to be honest. Some people will go to great lengths to try and put a video game in a certain light, to the point where it's painted as this culturally and socially offensive piece of work. It's really quite dumb, as this game is super fun and takes the series into unexpected yet exciting places.
 

rhino4evr

Member
Struct09 said:
Heh, it was the opposite for me. As mentioned above, I had problems with
power-bombing the Queen Metroid
, but
got the idea to focus on MB right away (picked up on it due to the cutscene)
That's funny because I had no idea why I finished that section. I must have just been aiming around the room in frustration. I died on that part several times, before the cut scene kicked in
 

pulga

Banned
I'm just gonna leave this here: Killing Samus at IGN.

Actually no, I don't want them having any more clicks than the one I already gave them.

Audrey Drake @ IGN said:
"I felt that if I let my guard down I would easily be broken. Beyond that, I was scared."

This self-conscious statement is one of the first that players hear spoken by Samus Aran, the ruthless bounty hunter and heroine of the classic Metroid series. In Metroid: Other M, the formerly silent character is given voice for the first time, a voice that goes against everything her character once stood for and backtracks on the trails she once blazed.

As this new game would have it, the same Samus who single-handedly destroyed an entire alien species and murdered countless space pirates was actually a fragile, emotional mess beneath all that armor.

As a longtime Metroid fan, I beg to differ.

The new direction of Samus' character is completely out of left field. It's hard to reconcile the woman portrayed in Other M with the one who, in Super Metroid, lobbed missile after missile at Mother Brain's face, and afterward was still composed enough to hastily return to her ship before the planet exploded.

Look Who's Talkin'... Samus

While under the player's control, she is exactly the Samus of old, fearlessly dusting off dozens of enemies at once, all without losing her cool. The moment a cutscene begins to roll, however, she is transformed into someone completely new and unrecognizable. Someone who is insecure about what a former employer thinks of her, gets hurt when called an outsider, has serious daddy issues, and even, at times, chokes in the face of fear. The duality of her character within Other M is confusing in and of itself, and only lends to the feeling that the Samus of the cinema scenes simply doesn't belong, and just plain isn't the woman I grew up idolizing.

In a videogame landscape filled with helpless princesses and brainless bimbos, the concept of a woman who was indiscernible from her male counterparts was novel to say the least. She wasn't the wide-eyed, innocent damsel-in-distress, nor was she the objectified, scantily-clad hussy (you never so much as caught a glimpse of her outside of her armored Power Suit until the end of the game). Instead, the Samus of past titles was a rare example of a female character whose actions, and not her gender, were what defined her, and who was as uncompromising, steady and in control as any other hero out there.

Other M takes these formerly defining traits away from her, making her into just another generic, overly emotional female character. Where she once broke gender stereotypes, in Other M she exemplifies them. Her independence is reduced to subservience, her fearlessness to panic.

Dreamy-eyed Samus? Ugh.
In the opening cinematic, which recreates the final fight with Mother Brain from the end of Super Metroid, one of the first emotions we see out of Samus is her remorse at the untimely death of a baby metroid at the hands of the giant boss. We then find out that this moment has been haunting her, and that she is crestfallen at the idea that she'll never see the metroid (which she refers to as "the baby") ever again.

This is the same metroid she willingly gave up for study at the beginning of Super Metroid. In Other M, however, a creature that she is never previously portrayed as having any real attachment to becomes something of a maternal metaphor. In an irrationally overdramatic stupor, Samus loses all track of time after the baby's death. This maternal shift is completely out of the blue, as these feelings are never so much as hinted at in previous titles.

The dynamic between Samus and her former commanding officer, Adam Malkovich, is also entirely unbefitting the bounty hunter who was once known for her independence. The reason behind her departure from Malkovich's command is shrouded in mystery and built up to be something of considerable significance. I was shocked at how anticlimactic the revelation turned out to be, not to mention how drenched the moment was in undue melodrama. Samus departs the Federation after questioning one of Malkovich's commands, and it seems the fact that she doubted him has caused her endless grief. Seriously, the entire incident that players wait most of the game to hear about solely amounts to Samus momentarily questioning her commanding officer's authority.

But this is only the tip of the subservient iceberg. Throughout Other M, and even up until the final, climactic scene, Samus follows Malkovich's orders to the point of absurd submissiveness. This is a stark contrast to how Samus was portrayed in the past. Even in Metroid: Fusion, in which she follows the directions of a computerized commanding officer, she clearly states at the game's outset that she dislikes taking orders.

In Other M, however, this sentiment is never echoed. In fact, there is never an example in the entire game of her disobeying Malkovich, even at the cost of her own safety. She is so determined to not break orders that she would rather burn alive in a lava pit than engage her Varia suit, which would protect her from the heat. As her soon to-be-corpse is frying, she insists on taking the damage rather than defy a single order from Malkovich, who isn't even officially her commanding officer anymore. He didn't even tell her not to use the suit upgrade, he simply hadn't specifically authorized it yet.

Ready for action, Samus looks like the hero of old.
Samus' obedience is not the only new trait she is given in Other M. She is also, at several points, fearful and irrational. After taking on the life of a solitary bounty hunter—and rising to acclaim as the toughest in the galaxy—Other M would have players believe that Samus would actually cower before a returning boss from a previous game. She is literally shown transforming into a helpless child, unable to move or protect herself. The same Samus who has killed countless bosses (this one included) without breaking a sweat is rendered fear-stricken, and this behavior is never given any justification or context. As Other M would have it, beneath the visor of the intergalactic hero is a scared, little girl.

In Other M, I heard Samus speak for the first time, and I was devastated to find that my longtime friend wasn't the woman I thought she was. Someone who was once my favorite heroine, and an inspiration, was now a woman I wish had just kept her mouth shut.

Other than the usual crap that's been spouted ad nauseam, I just can't figure out for the life of me why some people can't realize she hates following orders in Fusion BECAUSE of Other M. smh
 
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