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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him

R

Rush2thestart

Member
Wow such anger over a game that's not even out yet. Jesus calm down you guys. Why not form your own opinions? I'm bailing out as well until this game comes out. Man I despise being part of the Metroid/Zelda fanbases...
 
E

etiolate

Banned
TruePrime said:
No it's not, it is submissive sure but the fac that it happens to one woman doesn't show sexism in the least.

Certainly not when the other 1 character that seems to exist doesn't in anyway come across that way.

He was her commanding officer, something happened to cause this. There is a big difference between this and being sexist.
Click to expand...

"Sure, it's submissive to male authority but not sexist!"
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
aegies said:
Your insistence on putting your fingers in your ears and screaming it isn't sexist says more about you than anything Abbie's review said about her. If the only character in the game presented as insecure is a woman, a woman who has SAVED THE GODDAMNED UNIVERSE BY HERSELF MULTIPLE TIMES, who's presented as insecure in the company of a group of men, yeah, that's sexist. It might not mean to be. But it comes off that way.
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She comes across as insecure to Adam and fuck you buddy that doesn't say nothing about me at all.

I am all about strong female protagonists, many times I have been there calling for them.

Hell I love XIII because of Lightning and the fact she never once feels she needs to answer to a man, and the story in XIII has a running theme of Snow seeking her approval to marry her sister.

If Samus answers to all the men and she does exactly what they tell her, and we see her strip down to her Zero suit and start serving them drinks like in some kinda sick cafe then you have merit.

Until then it is a very common story arc for a person to feel inferior when something negative has happened and that is all I see this as.
 
M

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
wsippel said:
Everything you wrote is correct, but it has nothing to do with Samus' gender, so it obviously can't be sexist. Adam is the only thing even remotely comparable to a family Samus has, and she respects him, so it's not sexist and it doesn't make her appear weak if she listens to him in my opinion - and he seems to consider her his daughter, so it's understandable that he tries to protect her. You could tell the exact same story with a male Samus or a female Malkovich.
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As I said, that's wrong. Her portrayal is very specifically as an insecure female. A male character would not have been depicted the way Samus is in Other M. This was very deliberately chosen. They could have had her be a tough-as-nails character who rediscovered how to connect with people from her past, but that's not what has happened here.
 
P

Poyunch

Member
MattKeil said:
It's an attack against Samus specifically, which is the problem. Many female characters could go through this arc and it wouldn't be out of place. Hell, Samus herself could have if the game were set before all the others and not in the prime of her career. But the shift from how she has been depicted in the past to this is completely ridiculous and unjustified.

The broader issue of her being female enters into it because this would simply not be an issue if she were a male character. No established iconic male character would
be reduced to tears when confronted with his repeatedly-vanquished nemesis for the fifth time.
The method of portrayal hinges on Samus being female, and appears designed to tear down any kind of Ellen Ripley-style "tough girl" aspect of her character.
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See that's where your opinion seems to conflict with others. In my opinion it has much more to do with her fragile and fucked up past and less to do with her gender. There's no argument that this game has bad characterization but I really see no sexism.

etiolate said:
"Sure, it's submissive to male authority but not sexist!"
Click to expand...
So if a guy was submissive to his former leader would that be sexist? Just because Samus is a woman doesn't mean anything.
 
Giolon

Giolon

Member
MattKeil said:
As I said, that's wrong. Her portrayal is very specifically as an insecure female. A male character would not have been depicted the way Samus is in Other M. This was very deliberately chosen. They could have had her be a tough-as-nails character who rediscovered how to connect with people from her past, but that's not what has happened here.
Click to expand...

Japanese media often do insecure males in a very similar manner.
 
H

HylianScribe

Member
MattKeil said:
This is absurd. Samus' entire character arc in Other M is horrendously sexist. Massive, MASSIVE story spoilers below, so consider yourself warned:

Seriously.

Samus is a highly skilled bounty hunter, and at the time of Other M has been for many years. At this point she has been through the events of the first game, all three Primes, Hunters, and Metroids 2 and Super. She has saved the galaxy (or at least human civilization) many times over. She is no amateur, she has seen serious shit, she is the best there is at what she does as far as has been shown in the 10 games of the series.

So she runs into Adam on the Bottle Ship and feels totally guilty about how she questioned his orders 15 or so years earlier when he was forced to let his brother die rather than try to save him. She thought she could save him and never forgave Adam for not letting her try. So now on the Bottle Ship she decides not to use any of her abilities until Adam authorizes them one-by-one, in order to show him that she has matured and can abide by his orders no matter what. The entire game depicts her as horribly insecure about her abilities, her perception of given situations, and what Adam and the other GalFed soldiers think of her.

Near the end of the game, Adam has to sacrifice himself while he sends Samus to defeat Ridley. He tells her that only she can defeat him, and it's his job to self-destruct the part of the ship containing new freeze-proof metroids, because anyone could do that. But only Samus is badass enough to handle Ridley and the other crazy stuff on the ship. He confirms that she is capable and strong and should forgive herself for everything, and following this she finally begins to believe in herself again. After Adam's sacrifice, she's all business and ready to kick ass for the rest of the game. This is where the game finally starts to feel like it should, narratively.

Please take note that Samus' character arc can be summarized as follows: Despite her great accomplishments, she does not believe herself to be a valuable and capable person and warrior until a male authority figure tells her that's what she is. If this is not a sexist message, I don't know what is.
Click to expand...

Forget all that...
how about how Samus reacts to Ridley when she realizes it's him? WHAT THE HELL!?!? How many times have Samus and Ridley butted heads before then, and had she faltered before? I could see maybe in the ORIGINAL Metroid her reaction being the way it was in Other M, but seriously that was some nonsense. Quite frankly, the whole game, Samus was an emotionless bore and I felt like I was watching a philosophical sci-fi movie like Polaris or Moon, only without the intrigue. The story element in Other M is appreciated - thank you for trying, and the CG did look awesome. But the substance was trash. Really weak. The game is more about past events and coping with them then what's actually going on in the present.
 
S

SpacePirate Ridley

Member
And Im out, this is just getting idiotic, like the time were he was banned in the old thread that was closed because of the samus' figure debacle or some other shit like that.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
PounchEnvy said:
And to be clear. Shit isn't exclusive to one gender. It's just shit.
Click to expand...
no, dude, follow the analogy

corn isn't gender-specific. you're just as likely to find a kernal in Samus' poo as you are in Sonic's poo. it might be different maize, but it doesn't matter because they didn't earn any of it they just stole it from the local grocer's market and then tried to sell it to TruePrime after they'd already devoured it without making sure they'd cleaned it before hand.
 
S

somedevil

Member
They should of put the embargo until monday so all this would just be one day instead of 3 more days of this! Can we wait till the game comes out before everyone goes nutz.
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
I am with the others.

If you want to say Samus was treated as some piece of sexist meat then go ahead. I don't want to be banned before Other M launches.

I have seen enough wishy washy men and this senario played out with both genders that I know enough where my opinion lies and if others like you all feel people will agree with you then please continue talking about it, I'm out.
 
P

Poyunch

Member
Rez said:
no, dude, follow the analogy

corn isn't gender-specific. you're just as likely to find a kernal in Samus' poo as you are in Sonic's poo. it might be different maize, but it doesn't matter because they didn't earn any of it they just stole it from the local grocer's market and then tried to sell it to TruePrime after they'd already devoured it without making sure they'd cleaned it before hand.
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Man that's deep.
 
R

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
mantidor said:
yeah the game isn't really mediocre, even if the story is terrible and some people seem to have issues with the controls the game overall looks very polished.
Click to expand...

So... this is Final Fantasy XIII for Wii?
 
W

wsippel

Banned
MattKeil said:
As I said, that's wrong. Her portrayal is very specifically as an insecure female. A male character would not have been depicted the way Samus is in Other M. This was very deliberately chosen. They could have had her be a tough-as-nails character who rediscovered how to connect with people from her past, but that's not what has happened here.
Click to expand...
When game developers try to design strong female characters, then that's exactly what usually ends up being truly sexist - Samus is just human... ;)


TSA said:
Forget all that...
how about how Samus reacts to Ridley when she realizes it's him? WHAT THE HELL!?!? How many times have Samus and Ridley butted heads before then, and had she faltered before? I could see maybe in the ORIGINAL Metroid her reaction being the way it was in Other M, but seriously that was some nonsense. Quite frankly, the whole game, Samus was an emotionless bore and I felt like I was watching a philosophical sci-fi movie like Polaris or Moon, only without the intrigue. The story element in Other M is appreciated - thank you for trying, and the CG did look awesome. But the substance was trash. Really weak. The game is more about past events and coping with them then what's actually going on in the present.
Click to expand...
I think the idea behind that is that she believed she were through with that. If you are absolutely sure you've dealt with something and it just keeps coming back, such a reaction is kind of understandable, no?
 
A

AniHawk

Member
It's interesting what MattKeil's been saying. You'd think with the inspiration for the series just sitting there, they would have paid more attention to Ellen Ripley.

I mean if they wanted to play up the "Mother" aspect, they could've had a Rebecca/Newt thing going on instead of THE BABBY. This is just off the top of my head, but her protecting another young girl would probably hold more weight when it came to flashbacks versus
"I'm weak, so weak."
 
F

farnham

Banned
Regulus Tera said:
So... this is Final Fantasy XIII for Wii?
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i dont think that the story is terrible in a sense that you dont know wtf is going on (and especially what lcie and falcie means. i still havent figured that one out )
 
Tathanen

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Welp, thread took expected turn. Was nice talking to you guys about the game! I encourage you to ignore all of the reviews, mine included, and just try to enjoy playing it for what it is. If you hate it, so be it, but a game as apparently polarizing as this one kind of defies the notion of a believable review in either direction. Pretend the internet doesn't have an opinion for once, and just give it a shot.

Also: calling a pseudo-father/daughter relationship sexist is perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
 
E

etiolate

Banned
TruePrime said:
He was her superior was he not?

My god he is not some dude that was on the side of the road.
Click to expand...

Was

Add in the fact he's hardly part of the game series as a whole, and his sudden mastery over Samus makes no sense in any matter than how rebellious females are often portrayed as apologetic and desperate for approval in the end of much of Asian cinema, it sends all sort of bad signals.

Just to note, that cinematic tradition is also sexist.
 
R

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
farnham said:
i dont think that the story is terrible in a sense that you dont know wtf is going on (and especially what lcie and falcie means. i still havent figured that one out )
Click to expand...

The terms Fal'Cie and a l'Cie are explained by the end of Chapter 2 (fal'Cie: gods that Cocoon relies on for living; l'Cie: beings tainted by enemy fal'Cies). The problem with it is that the plot is garbage to begin with.
 
A

_Alkaline_

Member
Well this thread's turned to shit. With all the talk about meaningless scores and the game's impending release, I was going to bail out anyway, but the addition of sexism is making me run instead of walking.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Regulus Tera said:
The terms Fal'Cie and a l'Cie are explained by the end of Chapter 2 (fal'Cie: gods that Cocoon relies on for living; l'Cie: beings tainted by enemy fal'Cies). The problem with it is that the plot is garbage to begin with.
Click to expand...

Wow. I think I need to buy this game now SO I CAN HATE IT.
 
W

Wallach

Member
_Alkaline_ said:
Well this thread's turned to shit. With all the talk about meaningless scores and the game's impending release, I was going to bail out anyway, but the addition of sexism is making me run instead of walking.
Click to expand...

The fact that you're still posting here means you have clearly crossed the event horizon. Any action at this point will only move you to your inevitable conclusion faster.
 
F

farnham

Banned
Regulus Tera said:
The terms Fal'Cie and a l'Cie are explained by the end of Chapter 2 (fal'Cie: gods that Cocoon relies on for living; l'Cie: beings tainted by enemy fal'Cies). The problem with it is that the plot is garbage to begin with.
Click to expand...
please. i know that i could have known about the terms if i tried. i just chose not to because the game got worse and worse as i actually tried to understand the story. so i just decided not to care and enjoy the battle system :lol :lol
 
R

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
farnham said:
please. i know that i could have known about the terms if i tried. i just chose not to because the game got worse and worse as i actually tried to understand the story. so i just decided not to care and enjoy the battle system :lol :lol
Click to expand...

Too bad the battle system dulls out midway through the game. :(
 
T

Teknoman

Member
_Alkaline_ said:
Well this thread's turned to shit. With all the talk about meaningless scores and the game's impending release, I was going to bail out anyway, but the addition of sexism is making me run instead of walking.
Click to expand...

n6az5h.gif
 
L

L00P

Member
_Alkaline_ said:
Well this thread's turned to shit. With all the talk about meaningless scores and the game's impending release, I was going to bail out anyway, but the addition of sexism is making me run instead of walking.
Click to expand...

I tried to walk away, but this thread keeps chasing me!
 
E

evilromero

Member
Rez said:
I'm sick of debating whether or not a pile of cow feces that is the story has a piece of corn nestled among the grass and bodily fluids. It's just shit.
Click to expand...
How do you think I felt when I was pelted back in 2009 for voicing my criticisms towards the game's direction? I was being fair and restrained but it didn't save me from the beating of Other M apologists.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Im confused. Its not a bad Metroid game, its not a bad game period...but we're arguing about the game being bad and why its bad...also corn and sexism?

I think everyone needs to dial it back a notch until the game officially releases.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
AniHawk said:
Wow. I think I need to buy this game now SO I CAN HATE IT.
Click to expand...

There's a black guy named Sazh who keeps a chicken in his afro and literally utters lines like "I'm gettin' too old for this," "Dayumn," and "Hell nah." He fights by shooting guns gangsta style.

Then there's the 7-foot tall 28-year-old stoner resistance leader who punches robots to death, fighting for his 13-year-old fiance.
 
E

evilromero

Member
Teknoman said:
Im confused. Its not a bad Metroid game, its not a bad game period...but we're arguing about the game being bad and why its bad...also corn and sexism?

I think everyone needs to dial it back a notch until the game officially releases.
Click to expand...
No, I think the discussion is centered on whether it's a good Metroid game. And judging by the reviews it's about in line with Fusion (something anyone could easily predict even back in 2009).
 
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