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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him

Door2Dawn said:
How do you know what kind of character samus is? Not a single metroid game has been released that reveals what kind of person she is. Until now.

True but for what we do know Samus was a seemingly stoic loner. It would be like Link all of a sudden being emo..after showing no signs of being that way but when you just start to flesh out a character after not doing so for awhile ii guess it would feel a bit out of place.

plus, if all I did was take out entire races and constantly killed my arch enemy and that motherfucker kept coming back, I would be a bit fucked up too. Samus has been through some tough shit.
 

scitek

Member
Knux-Future said:
True but for what we do know Samus was a seemingly stoic loner. It would be like Link all of a sudden being emo..after showing no signs of being that way but when you just start to flesh out a character after not doing so for awhile ii guess it would feel a bit out of place.

plus, if all I did was take out entire races and constantly killed my arch enemy and that motherfucker kept coming back, I would be a bit fucked up too. Samus has been through some tough shit.

The problem is that Sakamoto has had this idea for Samus' personality in his head all these years, but he doesn't realize that even though he didn't craft a huge, sweeping storyline for her until now, fans have been able to "fill in the blanks" so-to-speak over the years, so we have some idea of what we think Samus should be like going in. I think Sakamoto really felt like he was working with a completely clean slate and he wasn't.
 

LowParry

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Ewoks get too much shit.

They're basically short wookies!

Haters gonna hate!

2uh7bzb.jpg
 
scitek said:
The problem is that Sakamoto has had this idea for Samus' personality in his head all these years, but he doesn't realize that even though he didn't craft a huge, sweeping storyline for her until now, fans have been able to "fill in the blanks" so-to-speak over the years, so we have some idea of what we think Samus should be like going in. I think Sakamoto really felt like he was working with a completely clean slate and he wasn't.

It probably would have been better to have this game happen before Samus truly becomes the badass bounty hunter.

like replace the entire baby metroid shit out and just have a rookie Samus come across Adam and the gang and shit gets real. That way Samus being a bit uncertain and emotional wouldn't seem that bad.

It would be like James Bond in Casino Royale not being Spy Jesus yet.
 
marathonfool said:
Did that make you feel like a true man calling her ugly?

What's wrong with that I said? She's a video game reviewer, not some psuedo-women's rights champion. Review the game for you know, it's game play. Her whole rant about the game is "omfg samus is weak/getting directed by a man", etc. and it's hard to take her as anything than an attention whore. The whole sexism bit is ridiculous as a bunch of gaffers already argued pages back.

Plus if a person spends all her time doing solo missions and living by herself, I would expect them to be a little, you know, lonely and emo. It's not like she hasn't gone through alotta bullshit either.

About the ugly comment, it's my bad. I had a brain fart and thought Morgan Webb wrote that review. Abbie isn't really that much of a looker anyways.
 

kiryogi

Banned
For the guy wondering earlier: It looks like Other M doesn't have much issues with CFG loader based off what I've been reading. But that reviewer earlier did say it prompts for an update.
 

Poyunch

Member
Knux-Future said:
It probably would have been better to have this game happen before Samus truly becomes the badass bounty hunter.

like replace the entire baby metroid shit out and just have a rookie Samus come across Adam and the gang and shit gets real. That way Samus being a bit uncertain and emotional wouldn't seem that bad.

It would be like James Bond in Casino Royale not being Spy Jesus yet.
That sort of happens in the manga.
 

scitek

Member
Knux-Future said:
It probably would have been better to have this game happen before Samus truly becomes the badass bounty hunter.

like replace the entire baby metroid shit out and just have a rookie Samus come across Adam and the gang and shit gets real. That way Samus being a bit uncertain and emotional wouldn't seem that bad.

It would be like James Bond in Casino Royale not being Spy Jesus yet.

Yeah, agreed. Especially with the whole Ridley thing, though I have yet to see how that all shakes down in-game. Like I said, if the story doesn't make any sense, that's one thing, but leave your politics at home.
 

MollyMillions

Neo Member
scitek said:
The problem is that Sakamoto has had this idea for Samus' personality in his head all these years, but he doesn't realize that even though he didn't craft a huge, sweeping storyline for her until now, fans have been able to "fill in the blanks" so-to-speak over the years, so we have some idea of what we think Samus should be like going in. I think Sakamoto really felt like he was working with a completely clean slate and he wasn't.

I actually think Sakamoto wrote the story as a direct sequel to his Zero Mission manga. the problem is that most fans of the franchise, barring the extremely hardcore, haven't read it.

What Abbie Heppe is responding so negatively towards is Samus' established backstory, according to Sakamoto. Samus' parents were killed (and eaten) by Ridley in front of her in the manga, so her having flashbacks to that event isn't simply her being a wimp; it's her re-living a formative trauma. The problem is if all of this history isn't made clear, which it sounds like it's not, then it reads as her being emotionally weak.

Basically, this sounds like a microcosm of what's wrong with storytelling in gaming...too much narration and dialogue where its not needed, too little coherent character motivation and explanation where it is needed to have characters be more than ciphers.

That said, I just am happy to have Samus in 3rd person actually moving and jumping where I can see her. Hopefully this will provide a base for better Metroid games with this style of gameplay.
 

Red

Member
Knux-Future said:
It probably would have been better to have this game happen before Samus truly becomes the badass bounty hunter.

like replace the entire baby metroid shit out and just have a rookie Samus come across Adam and the gang and shit gets real. That way Samus being a bit uncertain and emotional wouldn't seem that bad.

It would be like James Bond in Casino Royale not being Spy Jesus yet.
Since I haven't played the game yet, I could be way off base here, but as with all story telling mediums, I'm a big proponent of "show, don't tell." I would love to have playable sequences of Samus as a child, having to navigate through her home colony as Space Pirates decimate it. Would have equally loved to see the first few missions with Adam instead of this later one, so the connection would seem more organic and unimposing. Less contrived, I guess.

This extends to the pointless monologue as well.

"I look through my visor using my eyes and see a Geemer, a relative of the Zoomer, and a creature I have seen before; it shambles around as such creatures do and I raise my arm to shoot it. As I concentrate, my power suit gathers energy inside the tube-like sheathe around my arm that functions like a cannon; once it is fully charged, I release the energy within as though I am releasing the stresses of my former life. I recall the 'baby,' and the way it sacrificed its energy to me so that I could defeat 'Mother.' I return from my memories in time to see my prior blast make contact with the Geemer and cause it to burst from within in a shower of radiated fluid and chitin. I recall again the 'baby,' and the way its 'egg' sifted away like a stringy placenta once it hatched. I remember the first thing it did in its short existence was see me. It must have assumed I was its 'mother,' and despite my invocations to the contrary, it would not leave me alone. It ate its way through the body of SR388, creating for me a way out of the planet's very depths. I return my thoughts to the present and consider the mission ahead. I look to the left, and then to the right. I feel a slight cramp in my lateral anterior femoral cutaneous nerve; I assume it is nothing and take a step forward. The inner workings of my visor alert me to relevant information about my current health status and armaments. They have always done this. I feel that I am a bit hungry, but push all thoughts of eating to the back of my mind as I take another step. Again, I think about the baby: how it ate the life force of dozens of creatures throughout its short life, its life ended by the evil 'Mother,' the construct that served as an advisor to the Space Pirates, including my arch nemesis, Ridley. I take one more step and look to my left. I look through my visor using my eyes and see a Zoomer, a relative of the Geemer, and a creature I have seen before; it shambles around as such creatures do and I raise my arm to shoot it. As I concentrate, my power suit gathers energy inside the tube-like sheathe around my arm that functions like a cannon; once it is fully charged, I release the energy within as though I am releasing the stresses of my former life..."
 
I think part of it is that "tough and silent" was part of Samus' character, as we know now, due to technology limitations. Sakamoto tried to use the baby metroid to tell the story, but it didn't sway people from the Samus they were already seeing.

Then Retro took that Super Metroid Samus and made it first person, which further reinforced the idea.

So now that Sakamoto is making a new game after 15 years, it's like going back to Ryu with SF5 and saying "Actually Ryu wanted a girlfriend, that's why he was fighting so much." Everyone would probably go "Wait, what the fuck, seriously?"

Sakamoto would probably not have gotten as much shit for this if the previous games were explicit about it. But then again, maybe people would not have liked the games as much or at all if they were that explicit.
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
_Alkaline_ said:
The manga also shows that she had an emotional side to her as well. It's clearly what Sakamoto wants to convey, so it is Samus.

So you're totally on board with the Star Wars prequels' depiction of Anakin Skywalker, then. Because that's clearly what Lucas wants to convey, so it is Darth Vader.

On a side note, there's some seriously disgusting stuff in this thread.

ShockingAlberto said:
So now that Sakamoto is making a new game after 15 years, it's like going back to Ryu with SF5 and saying "Actually Ryu wanted a girlfriend, that's why he was fighting so much." Everyone would probably go "Wait, what the fuck, seriously?"

I seriously love this comparison. Well played.
 

Diffense

Member
Samus Aram = Ellen Ripley.
Tremendously resourceful and kickass but with a maternal side and a some emotional trauma from all she has been through.
In the videogame world we're used to one-dimensionality so killing aliens and having feelings does not compute for some people.

The fact that she spared the baby in Metroid II immediately told me about her compassionate/weaker side.
I mean, she knew what those things evolve into as she'd been fighting them all game and the mission was to eradicate metroids.
Yet, because it imprinted on her as a mother, she couldn't betray that 'trust' and kill it.
 

Poyunch

Member
MattKeil said:
So you're totally on board with the Star Wars prequels' depiction of Anakin Skywalker, then. Because that's clearly what Lucas wants to convey, so it is Darth Vader.
Yeah but the manga was good while Other M's story is questionable while it's the reverse for the Star Wars series. That's not a good comparison.
 

Teknoman

Member
scitek said:
Where's the outrage over the "chinks," etc. references polluting Mafia 2? Sure, it's historically accurate, but it's still racist. There's no law saying Samus has to be the beacon of "girl power" in the video game world. The series creator apparently felt otherwise. I'll bet Samus having an uncharacteristically plump ass for a white girl is more sexist than anything found in the story, but we'll just choose our battles where we see fit. Fucking hypocrits.

Well that might not be so true these days :lol
 
MattKeil said:
So you're totally on board with the Star Wars prequels' depiction of Anakin Skywalker, then. Because that's clearly what Lucas wants to convey, so it is Darth Vader.
Ehhh.

That's a bit of a different ground.

There were a lot of people involved with the conception of Darth Vader. There was one guy involved with the creation of Annie Skywalker.
 
MollyMillions said:
I actually think Sakamoto wrote the story as a direct sequel to his Zero Mission manga. the problem is that most fans of the franchise, barring the extremely hardcore, haven't read it.

What Abbie Heppe is responding so negatively towards is Samus' established backstory, according to Sakamoto. Samus' parents were killed (and eaten) by Ridley in front of her in the manga, so her having flashbacks to that event isn't simply her being a wimp; it's her re-living a formative trauma. The problem is if all of this history isn't made clear, which it sounds like it's not, then it reads as her being emotionally weak.

Basically, this sounds like a microcosm of what's wrong with storytelling in gaming...too much narration and dialogue where its not needed, too little coherent character motivation and explanation where it is needed to have characters be more than ciphers.

That said, I just am happy to have Samus in 3rd person actually moving and jumping where I can see her. Hopefully this will provide a base for better Metroid games with this style of gameplay.
If Sakamoto had in mind a story in mind for Samus, I think he should have just gone with a reboot instead of directly connecting Other M to Super Metroid. That's been a problem with Nintendo franchises. They make paper thin characters that can be molded into any type of game plot on various systems. There's no established meta-narrative in the franchises. It's not much of a problem until they decide to flesh out the characters with a cinematic narrative and connect it with the previous games.

While I think the story can be praiseworthy, my suspicion is the dialogue and characterizations are so cringe-worthy that it detracts from the plot. The moment to moment become eyesores and overwhelm any positive overarching narration.
 

MollyMillions

Neo Member
marathonfool said:
If Sakamoto had in mind a story in mind for Samus, I think he should have just gone with a reboot instead of directly connecting Other M to Super Metroid. That's been a problem with Nintendo franchises. They make paper thin characters that can be molded into any type of game plot on various systems. There's no established meta-narrative in the franchises. It's not much of a problem until they decide to flesh out the characters with a cinematic narrative and connect it with the previous games.

While I think the story can be praiseworthy, my suspicion is the dialogue and characterizations are so cringe-worthy that it detracts from the plot. The moment to moment become eyesores and overwhelm any positive over-arching narration.

Yeah, regardless of Sakamoto's intention and legitimacy as the only person who has ever attempted to characterize Samus in any medium, there's no excuse if the writing (translation?) and voice-acting is terrible. I actually haven't minded the blank emotionless Samus voice in the trailers so far, but the bits of dialogue quoted by Abbie sound terrible, I can't lie.
 

Diffense

Member
I feel like this game will be controversial but will ultimately be a good thing for the series.
The fact that we're talking about it this much and most of us haven't even played yet...
We're probably going to need to SPOILERS EVERYHERE thread for people who've completed the game to discuss it.
 
Kard8p3 said:
If this exact game had come out in 2002 instead of Prime do you think people would feel differently about this game?

Likely similar, since Fusion broke new ground for the series in terms of presenting narrative.

If the game came out before Fusion, that would have been interesting, since Super would have been the predecessor and the presentation of Super and Other M's narratives are strikingly different.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Kard8p3 said:
If this exact game had come out in 2002 instead of Prime do you think people would feel differently about this game?
In many ways, this feels like Metroid 64 to me. As far as design mentality is concerned, anyway. Just replace the VA with lots of text.
 

hatchx

Banned
I'm 5 hours in. Still kicks ass. I can't believe how fluid the animation is.

I'm actually surprised as the reviews, as of now I'd be leaning towards the nine side. I think a lot of reviewers compared to Prime and/or blew the story thing way out of proportion.
 

Kard8p3

Member
hatchx said:
I'm 5 hours in. Still kicks ass. I can't believe how fluid the animation is.

I'm actually surprised as the reviews, as of now I'd be leaning towards the nine side. I think a lot of reviewers compared to Prime and/or blew the story thing way out of proportion.

I know the gameplay will be fine so I'll just ask what you're thinking of the story so far?
 

etiolate

Banned
scitek said:
Holy shit she seems like an extremely annoying person judging from that video.

EDIT: She literally says, "And if I heard somebody say that they like that characterization (meaning Samus' portrayal in Other M), then I would probably not want to talk to them or be friends with them ever again."

Fuck off, it's a video game.

So videogames are free of accountability?

This reaction to the apparent sexism in Other M is appalling and embaressing for me as a game fan. People want videogames to be able to be some sacred club where social responsibility can be ignored. It's disturbing.
 

etiolate

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
Ehhh.

That's a bit of a different ground.

There were a lot of people involved with the conception of Darth Vader. There was one guy involved with the creation of Annie Skywalker.

...

are you serious
 

Redbeard

Banned
Reading all the reviews and seeing the footage just confirms to me that this is pretty much the worst thing that could have ever happened to the Metroid franchise and I hope the "experiment" is only done once and Other M just gets completely forgotten. Team Ninja? Bleh...Sappy anime story filled with cliche exposition and female weakness? Yuck. Generic anime artistic design? Yeesh...mechanically awkward gameplay that has been significantly dumbed down? ...ehh....much shorter campaigin? Pass.

I really loved the Prime series and find that direction to be much more appealing to me personally, hopefully after Retro works on DKR they will begin with a Wii2 Metroid. I'd love to see what they could do with proper next-gen hardware.
 

Poyunch

Member
Even if people hated the scanning from Prime I'm really going to miss. I'm a huge sucker of in-game encyclopedias about the flora and fauna. I'm going to miss reading the random creature descriptions.
 

Diffense

Member
etiolate said:
So videogames are free of accountability?

This reaction to the apparent sexism in Other M is appalling and embaressing for me as a game fan. People want videogames to be able to be some sacred club where social responsibility can be ignored. It's disturbing.

lol

Have you played it?
What is the apparent sexism?
Is taking orders from a man is sexist?
Or is refusing to take orders from someone because he's a man sexist?
Was Samus the only person taking orders from this man?
Were all the others taking orders female?

Sexist objectification of women is not difficult to find in videogames.
However, Samus is about as far from the norm as you can get.
I'm really curious to see this sexism with my own eyes.
 

Poyunch

Member
Diffense said:
lol

Have you played it?
What is the apparent sexism?
Is taking orders from a man is sexist?
Or is refusing to take orders from someone because he's a man sexist?
Was Samus the only person taking orders from this man?
Were all the others taking orders female?

Sexist objectification of women is not difficult to find in videogames.
However, Samus is about as far from the norm as you can get.
I'm really curious to see this sexism with my own eyes.
Yes. This game. It's disgusting on all accounts.
 
PounchEnvy said:
Even if people hated the scanning from Prime I'm really going to miss. I'm a huge sucker of in-game encyclopedias about the flora and fauna. I'm going to miss reading the random creature descriptions.
I love scanning. It really made me feel like a cohesive world was designed, with its unique ecosystem and climate. The already gorgeously detailed Prime worlds became even more alive. It worked so well with the first person perspective.

But I recognise that is a retro studios thing, so I don't really expect to miss it here since the other non-prime Metroids were more about Samus' mobility and not necessarily the stop and look from behind Samus' visor that the Prime games emphasise.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Redbeard said:
Reading all the reviews and seeing the footage just confirms to me that this is pretty much the worst thing that could have ever happened to the Metroid franchise and I hope the "experiment" is only done once and Other M just gets completely forgotten. Team Ninja? Bleh...Sappy anime story filled with cliche exposition and female weakness? Yuck. Generic anime artistic design? Yeesh...mechanically awkward gameplay that has been significantly dumbed down? ...ehh....much shorter campaigin? Pass.

I really loved the Prime series and find that direction to be much more appealing to me personally, hopefully after Retro works on DKR they will begin with a Wii2 Metroid. I'd love to see what they could do with proper next-gen hardware.

The reviews have been mostly positive. Sure most don't like the story but even then most still say the cutscenes are well done. The gameplay hasn't really been dumbed down either. The only real change is the auto aim in third person. Beyond that it's pretty much the same as the 2D games. When it comes to the length of the game it'll be different depending on the player. Some beat it in under ten hours while others have taken up to 15 hours. That's already much longer than it's taken me to beat any of the 2D games and on par with the time taken to beat the prime games for me. I personally hope the continue with this design. There are improvements that can be made but there's no reason to give up on it after one game.
 

Poyunch

Member
Magicpaint said:
I love scanning. It really made me feel like a cohesive world was designed, with its unique ecosystem and climate. The already gorgeously detailed Prime worlds became even more alive. It worked so well with the first person perspective.

But I recognise that is a retro studios thing, so I don't really expect to miss it here since the other non-prime Metroids were more about Samus' mobility and not necessarily the stop and look from behind Samus' visor that the Prime games emphasise.
I just hated how scanning was related to completion. If 100% completion requires scanning don't make something important permanently gone later.
 

Diffense

Member
PounchEnvy said:
I just hated how scanning was related to completion. If 100% completion requires scanning don't make something important permanently gone later.

This.
There was too much of it too.
Prime is beautiful, but you spent too much of it looking through the distorted scan visor not wanting to miss anything.

I recently started playing it again but have little motivation to continue.
For some reason, 1st person games give me motion sickness esp. when I haven't played for a while.

Interestingly, playing it reminded me that Prime's Samus CANNOT MOVE WHEN LOOKING AROUND either!
Shock! Horror!

I don't see the sexism.

I just see the character of Samus going a direction I strongly dislike.

This I can understand and respect.
 

scitek

Member
Redbeard said:
I really loved the Prime series and find that direction to be much more appealing to me personally, hopefully after Retro works on DKR they will begin with a Wii2 Metroid. I'd love to see what they could do with proper next-gen hardware.

Retro's done with Metroid. Deal.

etiolate said:
So videogames are free of accountability?

This reaction to the apparent sexism in Other M is appalling and embaressing for me as a game fan. People want videogames to be able to be some sacred club where social responsibility can be ignored. It's disturbing.

Anyone who thinks they can judge someone due to their acceptance of a video game character is someone I am pretty sure I would never want to be friends with. (See? I can do it, too.) And I think you're embarrassing.
 

Socreges

Banned
scitek said:
You mean kind of like getting bent out of shape because a game made by Team Ninja is sexist?

EDIT: I was making a point. Everything's silly in this thread. It would be stupid to be outraged over the racism in Mafia 2. It's stupid to be outraged about sexism in Metroid Other M. The thing that should be the issue is the story not making any sense, not the fact that it's politically incorrect.
Stupid to be outraged. Perfectly fine to criticize it, though. Perfectly fine to be disappointed. Perfectly fine to discuss it in the Official Thread.

And your "point" was irrelevant since the Mafia 2 example is completely different and the over-sized butt on Samus doesn't undermine complaints of sexism in any way. You also conceded that there is sexism in Other M. You just don't think it's important. That's silly.

scitek said:
The fact that Abbie would let someone's acceptance of a fucking video game's portrayal of a woman decide whether or not she would be their friend is beyond words to me. I've never met anyone so idiotic.
Right. That was absurd. But the context here is not one comment by Abbie or even her treatment of Metroid exclusively. You were addressing the notion that video game designers should be politically correct. Well, why not? Why should they be immune? They're not precious Gods of which their creations must be revered in a vacuum, unique from other mediums like film and music. They're open to criticism. Obviously. Deal with it.

Do you guys want to begin to create unique threads for opinions and preferences that don't align with yours? Would that make these OTs more sanitary and bearable? The "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT" comment earlier, directed to people that dare to speak negatively, perfectly captures the sort of attitudes found in these threads.
 

Big One

Banned
Wait, people are complaining about sexism in METROID? Okay...do these people realize that, with the exception of the Prime trilogy, that you can see a picture of Samus in revealing clothes? You know, one of the many things the franchise is known for? Goddamn, play the other Metroid games.
 

Poyunch

Member
Really there are two trains of thought here.

Those that see a woman being submissive to a man and thus sexist.

And then those that see a person (who happens to be female) respect the words of a former father figure/superior (who happens to be of the opposite gender) and thus not sexist.

The story (could be) stupid. It may be illogical with its plot devices but really I see no sexism.

edit: On the issue of the Zero Suit. We have very little to base on. So far we have a sensationalistic review claiming Samus being eye candy to the point where it's an issue. No other news source has claimed anything. It outright contradicts the words of the developers.

Thinking logically Samus would only be in the Zero Suit for that short portion of the game. It makes no sense for her to be out of it in-game. If she truly is like this then yes they are somewhat objectifying her.
 
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