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[DDayton]

I'm really puzzling over this... so far there appear to be two distinct camps of Metroid: Other M players: those who see Samus submitting to Adam as being logical due to rank and mentor status, and those who see Samus submitting as just a sexist method of weakening her character.

Until I play the game myself, I'm still giving it the benefit of the doubt; I haven't really heard anything yet that screams "SAMUS IS A WEAK FEMALE!", and I don't see why she can't struggle with what she has to do.

Oh well. This should be interesting... and I'm really curious what Dragona (she who hates Retro) will think of the game. The Metroid Database review seems positive...

 

[scitek]

Stupid to be outraged. Perfectly fine to criticize it, though. Perfectly fine to be disappointed. Perfectly fine to discuss it in the Official Thread.

And your "point" was irrelevant since the Mafia 2 example is completely different and the over-sized butt on Samus doesn't undermine complaints of sexism in any way. You also conceded that there is sexism in Other M. You just don't think it's important. That's silly.

You missed my point. The entire post was sarcasm. I was making the point that Mafia 2 is rife with racism, right down to all of the black people spouting terms like "cracka" and "mothafucka" and carrying guns, but no one is making a stink about that because they know there's no reason to.

Seriously, where are Abbie's complaints about this same developer's other games? They're KNOWN for incredibly overt sexism in their games, yet she picks the one that exhibits it the least? And the things she points out AREN'T sexist AT ALL. Samus doesn't listen to Adam because he's a man, she does it because he's someone she respects, he's a high ranking commanding officer and someone whom she's known for years. If Adam's name were Amanda, this would all be a non-fucking-issue.

Right. That was absurd. But the context here is not one comment by Abbie or even her treatment of Metroid exclusively. You were addressing the notion that video game designers should be politically correct. Well, why not? Why should they be immune?

Freedom of expression? Artistic intent? I don't know, pick a reason. Filmmakers and other artists (and yes, I consider storytellers in any medium artists) don't have to be politically correct, nor should they. If you don't like what's on TV, change the channel. Don't like the CD your kids are listening to? Don't allow them to listen to it. Sakamoto clearly didn't see Samus' personality formed by virtue of her raising herself in the wilderness using bark to wipe her ass and hunting wild animals via their scent. Instead he chose to make her a bratty, rebellious teen with issues from never having had a proper father figure. The end of the world it is not. Nor is it sexist.

They're not precious Gods of which their creations must be revered in a vacuum, unique from other mediums like film and music. They're open to criticism. Obviously. Deal with it.

She's certainly welcome to her opinion, I don't recall saying otherwise, but I think she comes off as a childish, whiny twit in the process. By the way, opinions are also open to criticism.

 

[Socreges]

Wait, people are complaining about sexism in METROID? Okay...do these people realize that, with the exception of the Prime trilogy, that you can see a picture of Samus in revealing clothes? You know, one of the many things the franchise is known for? Goddamn, play the other Metroid games.

Why do people ignore the fact that there are varying degrees in issues like this? Sexualizing Samus in that way in a picture at the end of the game as a bonus for completing the game in under 2 hours (IIRC) is a little different than an entire storyline's foundation being entrenched in sexism.

Really there are two trains of thought here.

Those that see a woman being submissive to a man and thus sexist.

And then those that see a person (who happens to be female) respect the words of a former father figure/superior (who happens to be of the opposite gender) and thus not sexist.

The story (could be) stupid. It may be illogical with its plot devices but really I see no sexism.

MY TURN

There are two trains of thought here:

Those that see a formerly experienced, strong female character being depicted as a bratty, vulnerable and subordinate underling as sexist.

Those that choose to gloss over the aforementioned details and refuse to see such complaints as valid.

FAIR??

 

[Poyunch]

I'm really puzzling over this... so far there appear to be two distinct camps of Metroid: Other M players: those who see Samus submitting to Adam as being logical due to rank and mentor status, and those who see Samus submitting as just a sexist method of weakening her character.

Until I play the game myself, I'm still giving it the benefit of the doubt; I haven't really heard anything yet that screams "SAMUS IS A WEAK FEMALE!", and I don't see why she can't struggle with what she has to do.

Oh well. This should be interesting...

>_>

But I'm glad you see it too.

MY TURN

There are two trains of thought here:

Those that see a formerly experienced, strong female character being depicted as a bratty, vulnerable and subordinate underling as sexist.

Those that choose to gloss over the aforementioned details and refuse to see such complaints as valid.

FAIR??

How is that sexist though? They're weak character traits but so what? Why do you have to connect them to the fact that she's a woman? If she wasn't a woman and still had such character traits would you still claim that sexist?

 

[_Alkaline_]

Interestingly, playing it reminded me that Prime's Samus CANNOT MOVE WHEN LOOKING AROUND either!
Shock! Horror!

You can in Trilogy.

 

[Poyunch]

Gonna go to sleep now. I hope this all goes away.

 

[scitek]

I'm out. I've got a review to get done.

 

[farnham]

the sexist people in here really should consider the fact that there are hierarchies in an army

and yes female subordinates dont get extra treatment

samus was an ex subordinate and now is a contract worker for the army (much like pmcs)

she has to obey as she gets her jobs from the army

sure she could go rogue like foxhound did in MGS. but you cant demand her going rogue because otherwise it would be sexist

 

[Duderz]

Retro's done with Metroid. Deal.

As they should be. Prime is one of my very favorite games ever, but by Prime 3 it became clear to me that Retro had taken the franchise as far as they could - I hope they go on to do bigger and better things.

 

[Diffense]

You can in Trilogy.

I'm talking about the Prime that got the 10s in 2002 (?).

 

[farnham]

As they should be. Prime is one of my very favorite games ever, but by Prime 3 it became clear to me that Retro had taken the franchise as far as they could - I hope they go on to do bigger and better things.

they are doing donkey kong country returns

 

[Duderz]

they are doing donkey kong country returns

They sure are. And I hope it's good.

 

[Socreges]

How is that sexist though? They're weak character traits but so what? Why do you have to connect them to the fact that she's a woman? If she wasn't a woman and still had such character traits would you still claim that sexist?

This is the point where we'll diverge then. Samus' character has been inverted and now aligns with common, sexist perspectives of women. You can think that it's a coincidence and that if Samus was a man Team Ninja/Nintendo would have taken the same direction. I instead think it makes a lot more sense that they just have a narrow perspective in developing heroines.

Gonna go to sleep now. I hope this all goes away.

Don't be a woman.

 

[hamchan]

Interestingly, playing it reminded me that Prime's Samus CANNOT MOVE WHEN LOOKING AROUND either!
Shock! Horror!

My main issue with the first person in this game is that you have to switch hand position to access it and I think that's shared with reviewers. If only there was nunchuck support in this game, what a baffling decision to not include it.

 

[Dabookerman]

Is this the new 8.8? Some guys are already calling the girl ugly :lol and all over a game that they themselves haven't played yet

 

[Diffense]

My main issue with the first person in this game is that you have to switch hand position to access it and I think that's shared with reviewers. If only there was nunchuck support in this game, what a baffling decision to not include it.

That's my concern too actually, the hand switching.
I've kind of figured out a technique that should work so we'll see.

EDIT: BTW, MDB's review says the main cutscene points are the beginning, middle and end.
You'll play hours without watching anything but short cinemas.
It also says Sakamoto gives the fans a lot of what they want to see even at risk to story coherence.
His main complaint was the amped up Fusion type progression.
These guys are huge metroid fans so I had to read this one.

 

[Kard8p3]

Bitmobs review
http://www.bitmob.com/articles/the-other-metroid

 

[Solune]

The "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT" comment earlier, directed to people that dare to speak negatively, perfectly captures the sort of attitudes found in these threads.

Perhaps I came off a bit strong. I didn't mean for that to be demeaning to anyone who thinks ill of Other M, but that's how simple it is in MY case. I realize now that my post came off as arrogant however, I really think it's foolish to let something like sexism that WASN'T intended to infuriate oneself. That said obviously I approach Other M different than others, I'm not saying it's ok to present racism and sexism whether it's intentional or not.I just think it's being blown out of proportion and giving negative feedback that isn't required. I think people should just approach the game like they would any other game.

Metroid Game

Does gameplay interest me*MOST IMPORTANT​

Yes/No​

Does the setting appeal me​

Yes/No​

Are the graphics bad/good/tolerable​

Yes/No​

Etc.

I feel terrible for the people that won't be able to enjoy the game due to politically incorrect reasons that to some, don't exist there. As for me whatevs, I'm severely dissapointed at some of the discussion going on though and I guess I'm not making it any better, but I thought it would be appropriate for people to think further than just some lady who apparently feels underminded by a superior officer because she's of the opposite gender. Give the developers the benefit of the doubt, it's supposed to be an NES game with the latest technology, not sexism and rocket science.

 

[IceMarker]

Here's a way to judge for yourself whether a game is good or not, this also applies to games other than Metroid.

1. Get a job/acquire money/friends.
2. Buy/rent/borrow said game.
3. Play said game for a minimum 6 hours.
4. Ask your self the following question:

Did YOU enjoy the game?

If yes, congratulations you have appreciated a development team's work and have judged the game good and have spent good time and money for your sake! No other person's opinion applies to you!

If no, unfortunately you wasted your time/money, now you can join others who share in your misery and complain about it on the internet to others!

Spoiler

Moral of the story: form your own opinion.

 

[Socreges]

Oh I know any amount of sexism won't get in the way of me enjoying the game. I'm not too fussed.

For me, it's Metroid in 3rd-person. Finally. I'm pretty sure I'm going to enjoy it. My greatest concern is actually the action orientation of the game. I love the series for the exploration first, but it sorta sounds like that's more of an afterthought.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I have put up with some truly god awful story in my games.

Some truly horrendous voice acting.

What I want to know... is the game is fun.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I have put up with some truly god awful story in my games.

Some truly horrendous voice acting.

What I want to know... is the game is fun.

You shoot a man and get a powerup to win the game, textbook fun.

 

[EDarkness]

I really don't care anything about the story and voice acting. This game looks fun as hell. That's all that matters to me.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

You shoot a man and get a powerup to win the game, textbook fun.

I was serious though.

Not one little bit of DMC had a good story, not a little bit of Twilight Princess. Halo's story? Shit. Assassin's Creed? Asstastic.

Pretty much every game I've ever played has failed on the storytelling side. Plot holes, inconsistencies, and just plain terrible dialogue.

There's a few shining examples, but most really really suck. I don't play them for their stories, so I don't get disappointed when they suck.

If the game is fun I can ignore the stupid bullshit. And this sounds like it's got more then enough of it.:lol

 

[Diortem7]

After watching a certain cutscene involving Ridley I've officially lost all enthusiasm for this game.

 

[Dan]

I'm not exactly excited for it (haven't really followed the info and hype, brief videos I've seen haven't thrilled me) but with Amazon's $20 credit I made the order. I order everything from Amazon anyway, so I'm effectively getting it for $30, which makes the leap of faith easier.

 

[kiryogi]

After watching a certain cutscene involving Ridley I've officially lost all enthusiasm for this game.

Spoiler

You mean when she goes into Trauma mode?

 

[Ushojax]

I don't know if this is old but my new issue of GamesTM just arrived and they gave Other M a 9/10. The review text was glowing, saying that it was a classic Metroid game in every sense.

 

[MYE]

Are we still talking about G4's feminist rant and all that stupid "girl power" shit?

Is it safe to post here again or should i wait out a bit more?

 

[kiryogi]

Christ. Just watched the G4 review. My god is she spewing the hate. It's to the point of almost being unprofessional.

 

[farnham]

Christ. Just watched the G4 review. My god is she spewing the hate. It's to the point of almost being unprofessional.

i really have to wonder how she played zelda or mario. i mean in those games women are pretty much just objects.

in fact female characters in many many games are just objects

 

[Salsa]

Christ. Just watched the G4 review. My god is she spewing the hate. It's to the point of almost being unprofessional.

almost ?

i wouldnt take any review that starts with "holy fuck it sucks" seriously.

 

[farnham]

so i watched the g4 review explanation and all they talked about how the reviewer lady had an image of samus that was idolized and how this game was different from that image.

:lol :lol :lol

sorry but i cant take someone serious that writes a product recommendation based on an idolized image of a certain character. the reasoning was fan rant territory

 

[EatChildren]

I've been playing Fusion in prep for Other M. Near the end now. I love it, but god does it remind me how much I hate the boss fights. Fusion has my least favourite boss fights of the entire franchise. Some of them are so bad.

 

[brandonh83]

I've been playing Fusion in prep for Other M. Near the end now. I love it, but god does it remind me how much I hate the boss fights. Fusion has my least favourite boss fights of the entire franchise. Some of them are so bad.

bad as in hard, or just badly designed?

I do have a small hunch, however, that you are going to say "both"

 

[zoukka]

I've been playing Fusion in prep for Other M. Near the end now. I love it, but god does it remind me how much I hate the boss fights. Fusion has my least favourite boss fights of the entire franchise. Some of them are so bad.

Wrong. They are scary as shit.

 

[hamchan]

Before coming to GAF I never knew Fusion was disliked. I love that game.

 

[slaughterking]

You can always find some of those people.

 

[EatChildren]

bad as in hard, or just badly designed?

I do have a small hunch, however, that you are going to say "both"

Nah not hard. They can be a challange but I wouldn't call them needlessly hard. I just hate the design of their battles. Nettori and Yakuza are two battles in particular that I really didnt like. BOX as well.

I still love the game for its art, pacing, and feel, and I still get enjoyment out of some of boss fights. I liked Serris and Zazabi.

 

[Mafro]

Just thought I'd pick up reading this thread from where I left off the other day..

 

[jufonuk]

The G4 Review, err ok err don't know what to say in response to that..

the only review so far that I am concerned with is EuroGamer.net as they seem the most fair/harsh in review scores, but at the end of the day it will be me that buys the game so it is up to me and am looking forward to getting it

 

[_Alkaline_]

The G4 Review, err ok err don't know what to say in response to that..

the only review so far that I am concerned with is EuroGamer.net as they seem the most fair/harsh in review scores, but at the end of the day it will be me that buys the game so it is up to me and am looking forward to getting it

I don't give a shit about review scores, but didn't Eurogamer give it an 8? Why would that be concerning?

 

[jufonuk]

I don't give a shit about review scores, but didn't Eurogamer give it an 8? Why would that be concerning?

what I meant is I care what eurogamer usually think as they seem to be harsh but fair where as IGN can sometimes bump up scores if they are hyped etc.
so an 8 from eurogamer is a good score

as for what edge think I'd rather know what GamesTM have to say :lol
but as I said I will be the one buying the game so it comes down to me in the end.

 

[Sadist]

Good lord what happened here

 

[kiryogi]

I admit I was a Fusion hater for quite awhile due to its linearity. But I've come to appreciate it and embrace it full on.

Good lord what happened here

Abbie happened. Her idolilzed Samus is no more. :lol

And I correct myself, she was being absolutely unprofessional. XD

 

[fortified_concept]

Considering Team Ninja's history it's not surprising at all the story seems sexist. As for the fact that she doesn't use the full potential of her weapons because a guy told her not to, all I have to say is this: :lol

 

[FleckSplat]

meditatingwhileeatingpopcorn.gif

 

[farnham]

Considering Team Ninja's history it's not surprising at all the story seems sexist. As for the fact that she doesn't use the full potential of her weapons because a guy told her not to, all I have to say is this: :lol

the story is by sakamoto not team ninja

 

[fortified_concept]

the story is by sakamoto not team ninja

Wow. At least I know now why Nintendo never had decent presentation for its games. It's better that way.

 

[Gattsu25]

i really have to wonder how she played zelda or mario. i mean in those games women are pretty much just objects.

in fact female characters in many many games are just objects

Haven't seen the review so I might be muddling the context but this is a complaint that couldn't be leveled against the Metroid franchise pre-Zero suit (with the exception of 6 frames of animation and 3 jpegs) and something that has always bugged me about Zero Mission and the games that followed using that silly purpose-less suit.

*watched review*

You recharge health/missiles by holding down a button??