Support NeoGAF

[Salsa]

Honestly, I think the biggest obstacle for this game is that the expectations for it were so high.

Yeah probably. What still bugs me is to see people loathing change without even playing the game, i mean is made by team ninja, wtf did they expect ? i for one was totally expecting a different experience. Hell, even from the reveal trailer i knew this was gonna be even more different from the usual Metroid than the Retro games. Sure there´s 2D sidescrolling, but melee finishing moves ? a squad of guys "helping" you out ? emphasis in voice acting !?

I like what Nintendo is doing, sure theyre playing it safe, but apparently they chose Metroid (their one "serious" IP) to go nuts and experiment. The new DKC looks like Donkey Kong Country, even if its made by Retro. Same with Kirby, small changes, but with Metroid they just go nuts.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I heavily doubt it. I don't think anyone at Nintendo, including Iwata, gives a fuck about reviews in general and G4 in particular. Especially if the game actually sells. Other M also lays the foundation for Metroid V. And I want to see that - by the same team, in the same style.

Before that, use this engine, port it to the 3DS and give me a remake of Metroid II.

 

[AniHawk]

.

The guy who wrote the review for Game Informer posts here. He gave Jak and Daxter 2 a 7.75/10.

 

[brandonh83]

My positive charge is pulling me toward the negative charge of G4 graaAAAGH

Polarism mode activate!

 

[aparisi2274]

I saw this at the Nintendo Store today, and while it is cool as hell, its not $250 cool...

The lights on the base circle around the ship, but again, not worth $250...

 

[Red]

Yeah probably. What still bugs me is to see people loathing change without even playing the game, i mean is made by team ninja, wtf did they expect ? i for one was totally expecting a different experience. Hell, even from the reveal trailer i knew this was gonna be even more different from the usual Metroid than the Retro games. Sure there´s 2D sidescrolling, but melee finishing moves ? a squad of guys "helping" you out ? emphasis in voice acting !?

I like what Nintendo is doing, sure theyre playing it safe, but apparently they chose Metroid (their one "serious" IP) to go nuts and experiment. The new DKC looks like Donkey Kong Country, even if its made by Retro. Same with Kirby, small changes, but with Metroid they just go nuts.

There are a few people who are against any changes in the series, sure. You'll get that with any ardent fanbase. But I think most of us were excited to see a new side of the series, only to find the implementation of new stuff a bit underwhelming.

 

[Hiltz]

I saw this at the Nintendo Store today, and while it is cool as hell, its not $250 cool...

The lights on the base circle around the ship, but again, not worth $250...

If only Nintendo included that as a pre-order bonus item.

 

[Salsa]

There are a few people who are against any changes in the series, sure. You'll get that with any ardent fanbase. But I think most of us were excited to see a new side of the series, only to find the implementation of new stuff a bit underwhelming.

Could be, havent really kept up with the thread (i dont know how you guys can :lol ) but some later comments ive seen suggest what i said, so i was coming from that.

I dont know, really, i just want to play the damn thing already :lol

 

[Deleted member 30609]

The guy who wrote the review for Game Informer posts here. He gave Jak and Daxter 2 a 7.75/10.

Oh, you mean Naughty Dog's Jak 2: Renegade

 

[Mafro]

The guy who wrote the review for Game Informer posts here. He gave Jak and Daxter 2 a 7.75/10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-GaXa8tSBE

 

[AniHawk]

Oh, you mean Naughty Dog's Jak 2: Renegade

No, not the spinoff series Naughty Dog made. I'm talking about the second Jak and Daxter game.

 

[Red]

Could be, havent really kept up with the thread (i dont know how you guys can :lol ) but some later comments ive seen suggest what i said, so i was coming from that.

I dont know, really, i just want to play the damn thing already :lol

Haha, I am in the same boat. Can't wait to get my hands on it.

As a side note, I checked out a few bosses, I'm sure they must be late-game battles but I don't have a problem seeing them out of context. Some nice surprises for those who remain unspoiled. Knowing the things I'm going to get to fight against has got me pretty excited. I want to see how it all unfolds.

 

[donkey show]

Love the controls of the game. Doing things like overblast and and the occassional missile firing on the fly can get a tad wonky, but the controls feel really reminiscent of the 2D games... which I grasped rather quickly and well.

So far, the one thing I wish they didn't implement was when you jump into an area, are forced in Visor mode, and you have to find the most minuscule thing in a large ass area. There's less of immersion and inherently more frustration to be had.

Regardless, great game so far.

 

[farnham]

Smash Bros Brawl - Anthony Higgs

Its awesome :lol :lol

 

[AniHawk]

Smash Bros Brawl - Anthony Higgs

Its awesome :lol :lol

It might be slightly amusing if it wasn't so very sexist.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The arguments on the net over all this so far are just making me more excited for Tuesday. Because I can smell it: this is something /new/, and the fanboys are not pleased. Ha ha. I don't know what to expect in a Metroid game and that is a sexy feeling.

 

[Wizpig]

Smash Bros Brawl - Anthony Higgs

Its awesome :lol :lol

:lol

 

[Portugeezer]

Great graphics, I don't know what people were complaining about. Nice framerate, responsive controls. Iz naaaice.

Also, DAT ASS.

 

[Penguin]

Smash Bros Brawl - Anthony Higgs

Its awesome :lol :lol

I guess Adam didn't authorize the use of weapons for most of that video.

 

[Windom Earle]

Is this 60fps?

 

[etiolate]

Hm, maybe this is one reason developers don't use female leads. If the womanp protagonist shows any weaknesses or self doubt (or heaven forbid obeys her superiors) the creators are sexist pigs and anyone who enjoys the game is evil.

Plus God help you if you try to make her attractive, you pervert!

Ok, look, I am going to use eznark's counterpoint to clarify. Let me point something out to people here.

There is a history concerning the portrayal of the hysterical woman. This portrayal includes fragile women who break down into tears and emotional hysterics at the first sign of danger.

When you have a character who has done everything on her own for over a decade, and no you cannot ignore that just because you have a poor reading level and need speech bubbles to understand what is going on, and then you throw her in with other males who were minimal parts of the series, and then have her bow down to male authority... then you raise an eyebrow. But when you have this character break down into tears when running up against a foe she has repeatedly defeated many times before then you are outright invoking her gender and the hysterical woman image.

You wouldn't take a long standing black character and put him in a jester outfit chasing chickens and looking for watermelon powerups.

I am sorry, you do not. Especially when it is not satire.

Can you make a sexy female character? Sure
Can you make her weak? Sure. Especially when it matches her abilities in the series.
Can you make her bratty? Sure. Many games have done this and it's fine. You just don't do it to a character who has not been weak or bratty for over a decade.

It is a failure in writing at the point of character development that creates the sexism. These character traits belong to a different Samus, a young Samus. The G4 review points this out. Does Sakamoto realize it? Probably not. He is not a good writer. It does not take away that in the context of the series that the portrayal of Samus in Other M is highly objectionable.

And if you don't like dealing with serious, real world issues then don't read the posts that do.

 

[Portugeezer]

Is this 60fps?

Feels like it.

Very smooth, some parts stutter a bit, nothing major.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I'm of the opinion that it's less sexist and more blatantly terribad animu writing.

 

[pulga]

God, I hate you fucks sometimes

 

[DancingJesus]

I'm of the opinion that it's less sexist and more blatantly terribad animu writing.

I think it's a little of column A and a little of column B.

 

[wsippel]

There is a history concerning the portrayal of the hysterical woman. This portrayal includes fragile women who break down into tears and emotional hysterics at the first sign of danger.

There's exactly one single moment in the whole game that terrifies her, for very understandable reasons.

Spoiler

Sure, she fought Ridley several times, but even when she goes all out, kills him and blows up the whole planet he's on, he's still coming back. I don't know about you, but I guess being shocked might be an understandable, gender neutral reaction there. And she overcomes that shock within, I don't know, 60 seconds, and fights him. All by herself.

So what was the point again?

 

[Poyunch]

Etiolate could you stop bringing that shit here? Let's just stop.

 

[Red]

dead horse beating

Quite sure some folks would consider some of that a spoiler.

 

[Teknoman]

Love the controls of the game. Doing things like overblast and and the occassional missile firing on the fly can get a tad wonky, but the controls feel really reminiscent of the 2D games... which I grasped rather quickly and well.

So far, the one thing I wish they didn't implement was when you jump into an area, are forced in Visor mode, and you have to find the most minuscule thing in a large ass area. There's less of immersion and inherently more frustration to be had.

Regardless, great game so far.

Glad to hear more positive impressions.

 

[wsippel]

Quite sure some folks would consider some of that a spoiler.

I believe it was explicitly mentioned in the G4 review, wasn't it?

 

[Windom Earle]

Feels like it.

Very smooth, some parts stutter a bit, nothing major.

Do you have a review copy?

 

[Red]

I believe it was explicitly mentioned in the G4 review, wasn't it?

Can't recall! I don't mind either way, but I noticed others were

Spoiler

spoiling

that sequence earlier in this thread.

 

[etiolate]

It's in the G4 review and mentioned in another I think?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

No one ever makes mention of Samus being more violent and badass in this game than in any other.

Though I guess that's also sexist because it portrays her as a hysterical woman with a gun?

 

[hamchan]

God this thread sucks. Everybody posting in this thread sucks, even me.

On the whole control issue, I accept the fact that it was a design decision to only use the wii remote. I just have to ask why? What goes through the head of designers that they would do this? Who really finds it more fun to not have analogue support in a 3D action game?

 

[SYNTAX182]

God this thread sucks. Everybody posting in this thread sucks, even me.

On the whole control issue, I accept the fact that it was a design decision to only use the wii remote. I just have to ask why? What goes through the head of designers that they would do this? Who really finds it more fun to not have analogue support in a 3D action game?

I agree, on the first part. )

It's simple really, they wanted a simple control scheme with NES style controls while combining it with more modern game mechanics as said via the Iwata asks with Sakamoto.

 

[evangd007]

When you have a character who has done everything on her own for over a decade, and no you cannot ignore that just because you have a poor reading level and need speech bubbles to understand what is going on, and then you throw her in with other males who were minimal parts of the series, and then have her bow down to male authority... then you raise an eyebrow. But when you have this character break down into tears when running up against a foe she has repeatedly defeated many times before then you are outright invoking her gender and the hysterical woman image.

This is how *any* Japanese person acts towards a superior. It's part of their culture and completely gender neutral.

 

[wsippel]

God this thread sucks. Everybody posting in this thread sucks, even me.

On the whole control issue, I accept the fact that it was a design decision to only use the wii remote. I just have to ask why? What goes through the head of designers that they would do this? Who really finds it more fun to not have analogue support in a 3D action game?

The whole game is designed around that perceived limitation, including leveldesign and combat. Eight directions are enough. Sakamoto explained that the decision was made to streamline the controls, making them easier for new and lapsed gamers. He might have a point, but I believe it was mostly done for the challenge. And it really is quite an achievement, enabling the player to pull off that many varied moves in 3D space using only a dpad and three buttons.

 

[hamchan]

I agree, on the first part. )

It's simple really, they wanted a simple control scheme with NES style controls while combining it with more modern game mechanics as said via the Iwata asks with Sakamoto.

I think that's a bad decision. Game design changes with the controls and the polarizing reception of this games controls shows the awkwardness of bring back old style controls for a modern game. The controls in other M are obviously very playable but is it really better and more fun than nunchuck controls?

EDIT: this is reminding me of RE5 threads.

 

[Retro_]

On the whole control issue, I accept the fact that it was a design decision to only use the wii remote. I just have to ask why? What goes through the head of designers that they would do this? Who really finds it more fun to not have analogue support in a 3D action game?

Personally I thought it was a cool idea when I first heard about it.

and I mean the idea of shifting the remote to change between 1st and 3rd

 

[etiolate]

This is how *any* Japanese person acts towards a superior. It's part of their culture and completely gender neutral.

But not a part of Samus or Metroid. Which means it fails as an explanation within the context.

I think you do bring up that this game was an attempt to make one of the more western leaning Nintendo titles into something more Japanese friendly.

 

[SYNTAX182]

The whole game is designed around that perceived limitation, including leveldesign and combat. Eight directions are enough. Sakamoto explained that the decision was made to streamline the controls, making them easier for new and lapsed gamers. He might have a point, but I believe it was mostly done for the challenge. And it really is quite an achievement, enabling the player to pull off that many varied moves in 3D space using only a dpad and three buttons.

Yep, that's what SYNTAX182 said, whoever that guy is. The control scheme is limited to give you more of a challenge and as a result the gameplay looks more about your timing and skills than being a god amongst enemies. As you can see from some gameplay videos and streams, if you mistime a shot or move w/ slow reaction times, you are fucked. Looks fun! Naw

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Apparently another thing was that this title was originally conceived as a 2.5D-ish game where you were stuck on a single plane while the camera angle changed, until Team Ninja convinced Sakamoto to give Samus 3D movement.

 

[Poyunch]

So what I don't get is why the Galactic Federationn take control of the Space Pirates. It's not like they couldn't. Is it because there's not truly one person in charge of the GF?

Apparently another thing was that this title was originally conceived as a 2.5D-ish game where you were stuck on a single plane while the camera angle changed, until Team Ninja convinced Sakamoto to give Samus 3D movement.

The game still sort of has this but there are also points where you have more freedom.

 

[EatChildren]

Wee! My Sound Test - Metroid is up on PALGN. Bit of a retrospective look at music from the whole franchise. Give it a squiz for a weekend read.

 

[evangd007]

BI think you do bring up that this game was an attempt to make one of the more western leaning Nintendo titles into something more Japanese friendly.

More that it was written by a Japanese person and their culture would invariably be reflected in it. You even saw it in Fusion. Samus did everything that

Spoiler

the AI of Adam

told her. It was her duty.

 

[wsippel]

But not a part of Samus or Metroid. Which means it fails as an explanation within the context.

How do you know that? The only other game in the series in which there was a (male!) CO and a chain of command to speak of, she followed her orders as well. And that game was western made.

Look, it's really simple in that case: Samus decides to join an ongoing military operation. She was not contracted to lead that operation. And being a professional, she knows how a chain of command works. She either follows orders or she's free to leave. Would be a really short game if she decided to do that, but at least she would come across as an independent, cool and badass bounty hunter I guess...

 

[Kard8p3]

A question to those that have played through the game. Every Metroid game has had moments that you could describe as creepy. Without spoiling anything can you say if this game has any creepy moments?

 

[RagnarokX]

Ok, look, I am going to use eznark's counterpoint to clarify. Let me point something out to people here.

There is a history concerning the portrayal of the hysterical woman. This portrayal includes fragile women who break down into tears and emotional hysterics at the first sign of danger.

When you have a character who has done everything on her own for over a decade, and no you cannot ignore that just because you have a poor reading level and need speech bubbles to understand what is going on, and then you throw her in with other males who were minimal parts of the series, and then have her bow down to male authority... then you raise an eyebrow. But when you have this character break down into tears when running up against a foe she has repeatedly defeated many times before then you are outright invoking her gender and the hysterical woman image.

You wouldn't take a long standing black character and put him in a jester outfit chasing chickens and looking for watermelon powerups.

I am sorry, you do not. Especially when it is not satire.

Can you make a sexy female character? Sure
Can you make her weak? Sure. Especially when it matches her abilities in the series.
Can you make her bratty? Sure. Many games have done this and it's fine. You just don't do it to a character who has not been weak or bratty for over a decade.

It is a failure in writing at the point of character development that creates the sexism. These character traits belong to a different Samus, a young Samus. The G4 review points this out. Does Sakamoto realize it? Probably not. He is not a good writer. It does not take away that in the context of the series that the portrayal of Samus in Other M is highly objectionable.

And if you don't like dealing with serious, real world issues then don't read the posts that do.

She doesnt get upset at the first sign of danger...

Spoiler

She has a friggin PTSD flashback. It would have been pretty hard to convey such a reaction in past games (Primes seem to be being ignored), but the reaction is still warranted as he should have been gone for good and shaking traumatic events isn't easy regardless of gender.

And she's not bowing down to male authority. She just completed her life's mission, killed mother brain (who according to the manga was like an adoptive mother for her), killed Ridley, destroyed the space pirates, watched a metroid save her after she had destroyed its species, and blew up her second home planet. She's having something like a mid-life crisis. Questioning her past. Solid Snake killed his dad and then attempted to spend the rest of his life wallowing in self-pity in Alaska.

Adam represents a part of her past she's unsure of. She points out that in the military sexism was rampant, but Adam was one of the few who didn't treat her differently based on gender and thus became a father figure and best friend to her. She follows his orders out of respect and because she's operating as part of a military mission. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with what Adam means to her and professionalism.

 

[King Chozo]

She doesnt get upset at the first sign of danger...

Spoiler

She has a friggin PTSD flashback. It would have been pretty hard to convey such a reaction in past games (Primes seem to be being ignored), but the reaction is still warranted as he should have been gone for good and shaking traumatic events isn't easy regardless of gender.

And she's not bowing down to male authority. She just completed her life's mission, killed mother brain (who according to the manga was like an adoptive mother for her), killed Ridley, destroyed the space pirates, watched a metroid save her after she had destroyed its species, and blew up her second home planet. She's having something like a mid-life crisis. Questioning her past. Solid Snake killed his dad and then attempted to spend the rest of his life wallowing in self-pity in Alaska.

Adam represents a part of her past she's unsure of. She points out that in the military sexism was rampant, but Adam was one of the few who didn't treat her differently based on gender and thus became a father figure and best friend to her. She follows his orders out of respect and because she's operating as part of a military mission. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with what Adam means to her and professionalism.

Very very well put. Kudos.