Support NeoGAF

[Windom Earle]

How do you know that? The only other game in the series in which there was a (male!) CO and a chain of command to speak of, she followed her orders as well. And that game was western made.

Look, it's really simple in that case: Samus decides to join an ongoing military operation. She was not contracted to lead that operation. And being a professional, she knows how a chain of command works. She either follows orders or she's free to leave. Would be a really short game if she decided to do that, but at least she would come across as an independent, cool and badass bounty hunter I guess...

Stop making so much sense in this crazy thread.

 

[Teknoman]

Wee! My Sound Test - Metroid is up on PALGN. Bit of a retrospective look at music from the whole franchise. Give it a squiz for a weekend read.

 

[Portugeezer]

Do you have a review copy?

Retail copy.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's 60fps for the most part.

 

[Windom Earle]

Retail copy.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's 60fps for the most part.

Weird how the best looking games on the console are also 60fps.

 

[The Technomancer]

...has it ever been explained why Ridley looks so different from other Space Pirates?

 

[MechaX]

Ridley's a space dragon. Completely different species.

 

[Solune]

She doesnt get upset at the first sign of danger...

Spoiler

She has a friggin PTSD flashback. It would have been pretty hard to convey such a reaction in past games (Primes seem to be being ignored), but the reaction is still warranted as he should have been gone for good and shaking traumatic events isn't easy regardless of gender.

And she's not bowing down to male authority. She just completed her life's mission, killed mother brain (who according to the manga was like an adoptive mother for her), killed Ridley, destroyed the space pirates, watched a metroid save her after she had destroyed its species, and blew up her second home planet. She's having something like a mid-life crisis. Questioning her past. Solid Snake killed his dad and then attempted to spend the rest of his life wallowing in self-pity in Alaska.

Adam represents a part of her past she's unsure of. She points out that in the military sexism was rampant, but Adam was one of the few who didn't treat her differently based on gender and thus became a father figure and best friend to her. She follows his orders out of respect and because she's operating as part of a military mission. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with what Adam means to her and professionalism.

Damn you live up to your tag.

 

[etiolate]

She doesnt get upset at the first sign of danger...

Spoiler

She has a friggin PTSD flashback. It would have been pretty hard to convey such a reaction in past games (Primes seem to be being ignored), but the reaction is still warranted as he should have been gone for good and shaking traumatic events isn't easy regardless of gender.

And she's not bowing down to male authority. She just completed her life's mission, killed mother brain (who according to the manga was like an adoptive mother for her), killed Ridley, destroyed the space pirates, watched a metroid save her after she had destroyed its species, and blew up her second home planet. She's having something like a mid-life crisis. Questioning her past. Solid Snake killed his dad and then attempted to spend the rest of his life wallowing in self-pity in Alaska.

Adam represents a part of her past she's unsure of. She points out that in the military sexism was rampant, but Adam was one of the few who didn't treat her differently based on gender and thus became a father figure and best friend to her. She follows his orders out of respect and because she's operating as part of a military mission. It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with what Adam means to her and professionalism.

That is a somewhat plausible explanation, but being presented with something you've overcome multiple times and responding with distress still seems like a reach in logic. I think the problem is still the character's own history in the games versus the history stuck into this game's plot.

 

[brandonh83]

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The guy who wrote the review for Game Informer posts here. He gave Jak and Daxter 2 a 7.75/10.

So you're saying he's prone to giving games much higher scores than they deserve.

 

[Kard8p3]

What's your favorite track?

 

[brandonh83]

What's your favorite track?

 

[wsippel]

That is a somewhat plausible explanation, but being presented with something you've overcome multiple times and responding with distress still seems like a reach in logic. I think the problem is still the character's own history in the games versus the history stuck into this game's plot.

Don't forget that by that time, and knowing what Sakamoto thinks of Prime,

Spoiler

she only fought Ridley twice at that point. And after blowing up Zebes, there was no way he could have survived - again.

 

[MattKeil]

She doesnt get upset at the first sign of danger...

Spoiler

She has a friggin PTSD flashback. It would have been pretty hard to convey such a reaction in past games (Primes seem to be being ignored), but the reaction is still warranted as he should have been gone for good and shaking traumatic events isn't easy regardless of gender.

Only works if it takes place before her numerous previous confrontations with the same thing. The character arc is completely out of place at this point in the timeline.

And she's not bowing down to male authority. She just completed her life's mission, killed mother brain (who according to the manga was like an adoptive mother for her), killed Ridley, destroyed the space pirates, watched a metroid save her after she had destroyed its species, and blew up her second home planet. She's having something like a mid-life crisis. Questioning her past. Solid Snake killed his dad and then attempted to spend the rest of his life wallowing in self-pity in Alaska.

Years have passed since Super Metroid's conclusion. It was the writers' decision to make her a mentally and emotionally fragile person years after the fact, and it was a bad one. It's fiction, they could do anything, and they chose to make her a weak and submissive character. No amount of speculative footwork you throw out there is going to change that. If they actually wanted to avoid the impression the story gives about Samus' gender, the solution was to make the Adam character female. They did not, and I believe that to be intentional. Further,

Spoiler

all the women in Other M are emotionally flawed and fragile, and require the assistance and/or interference of men to solve their problems. This is not by accident, and it is a distasteful thing.

It is very disappointing to see this in Metroid, one of the series best known for its strong depiction of a female character.

 

[KajunW]

So I've played the game -- my guess is that I've nearly completed the game -- and here are some of my thoughts (spoilered it to be sure):

Spoiler

Story:
- The series has seen a change in storytelling, from minimalism (Super Metroid) to extended monologues (Metroid Fusion). Other M obviously continues this trend by incorporating lengthy cutscenes. Some concerns have been expressed about whether these CGI movies would hurt the experience. Thankfully, although the total running is apparently around 2 hours, I would say a good chunk is found in the introduction of the game, and that the rest is quite evenly distributed over the course of the game. So it actually does not mess too much with the flow of the game. And it's not all consistent "teenage angst" either: quite a lot of scenes deal with setting the mood (i.e. as a precursor for events to come, much like Super Metroid did; think of the body you saw before you battled Kraid), and are effective in that sense. There's no real need to worry about being oversaturated with teenage drama. But honestly, even if those scenes are annoying, ultimately, the gameplay is what matters. An unparalleled sense of accomplishment when exploring the surroundings is what made Super Metroid great (and not its perceived lack of story exposition!);
- Much has been said about sexism already, but I honestly do not see it. It *is* strange when Samus would exhibit behavior that resembles a teen, rather than an experienced bounty hunter. But clearly, Sakamoto's intention was add an extra dimension to Samus, who up until Fusion could be characterized as a fearless bounty hunter. We're talking about a guy who made the decision to feature a strong female protagonist in 1986. Is sexism really appropriate here? It is more likely that Sakamoto's writing skills are poor, just like well, virtually all scenario developers in the gaming world. As some other posters said, Japanese have a different sense of drama as well;
- There are a lot of complaints on the voice acting in the game. But they actually do a decent job here, given the lines they've had to put out. A voice actor cannot do any good if the dialogue is cheesy to begin with. The voice actor for Adam Malkovich has some of the better lines (or perhaps more accurately: not as bad), which would explain why he comes off as having one of the better voices.
- The dialogue at times is rather corny at times, but it actually improves as the game goes on. Or maybe, I've just gotten used to it.

Visuals:
- The visuals are a mixed bag. Biosphere does not really impress with its flora and fauna, but some bits of pyrosphere are amazing;
- Textures are very simple sometimes;
- Generally a smooth frame rate, although slowdown is found in certain bits, particularly when using using the speed booster (oh, the irony).

Music:
- Music is pretty much non-existant. Although I won't be listening to its OST anytime soon, the ambience as set by the soundtrack enhances the experience tremendously.

Controls:
- Given the way the camera works, the d-pad controls never really get in the way;
- Although you get used to it, switching from a sideways grip to a remote grip for a first person mode is far from ideal. I still think is clumsy, and it is one of the reasons I would have rather seen the nunchuk.
- The auto-aim is great. Metroid has never been too big on shooting (in the sense that a lot of skill is needed), and this aspect has been dealt with in a satisfying manner. Having to aim manually would slow the action down, and if the goal was to recreate a NES metroid experience, then keeping the game speed intact is a crucial aspect;

Difficulty:
- So-called navigation rooms, where Samus gets healed and can save her game, are found frequently in maps. You can also usually continue from the spot where you died. Because of this, the game never becomes frustrating. The difficulty is pretty average. Some of the boss battles can be challenging, which can probably attributed to Team Ninja's influence;

Metroid-specific things:
- There's no question that it is most similar to Metroid Fusion. Your next objective is always specified by a marker on the map, so you always know what to do the next. The game is about as linear as it can get;
- Because it's similar to Fusion, you never really have moment when you think "hey, that's a clever map design";
- Sequence breaking is virtually impossible, because a) wall jumping, done by a simplified control scheme, is similar to Fusion's wall jumping, rather than Super Metroid, where you can basically wall jump on just one wall b) the authorization of weapons means you cannot get certain abilities earlier that are essential to breaking the sequence c) most importantly, the level design does not really lend itself for breaking
- I am glad the Speedbooster is back. However, it seems there are less puzzles involving the Shinespark;
- Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but some enemies can only be hurt by the melee moves, rather than being finished by it. In some spots I could repeatedly do a melee move on an enemy (that is, grab an enemy, do the closeup move, release, and then immediately grab again), without actually killing it. What's the deal with that?;

The game starts off slow, but I enjoyed the game more and more as it progressed. It is not the best Metroid game, but it's still a good game. Certainly not a 2/5 (which *is* a ridiculous score, particularly considering the fact that games are scored highly on average, especially when compared to films). Even it's a low-tier Metroid, you need to consider the fact that console Metroids do get made that often. It's a different experience, but just enjoy it for what it is and not let your expectations run wild.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Could you summarize that a bit?

I am afraid to recklessly highlight it for a conclusion.

 

[brandonh83]

Okay so I've read that the game has great exploration, and I've read that it's more linear and that there's barely any. Did they make two games and send each out randomly?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

You know what? I'm ready to be surprised by this. My negativity has been pretty much exhausted.

 

[hatchx]

You know what? I'm ready to be surprised by this. My negativity has been pretty much exhausted.

Don't worry. I've pretty far into it so far. It's an awesome game. It's something else, but it definitely is a great game.

 

[robor]

When you have a character who has done everything on her own for over a decade, and no you cannot ignore that just because you have a poor reading level and need speech bubbles to understand what is going on, and then you throw her in with other males who were minimal parts of the series, and then have *her bow down to male authority... then you raise an eyebrow.

No one is ignoring this, well at least I'm not. I understand she has been "alone" for the past iterations but I don't understand why everything from these past iterations regarding narrative must also be echoed in future iterations. I saw this pattern INSTANTLY with both Fusion and Zero Mission that technology played an important role in illustrating the story behind Samus (not solely, but a big part).

*You know what, I actually find this male authority spiel sexist. You see how that works? It's like some black guy coming into my store and me refusing him service because of his disorderly manner and him retorting by saying "Oh, it's because I'm black is it?". Yea guy, thanks for presuming because I'm WHITE that I'm instantly refusing you service because your BLACK, now who's being racist?

If it was female authority we wouldn't even been having this debate.........or we would be having a debate about the devs being perverted because there are so many sexy female characters showing their booties a-blah blah blah i-have-things-to-say-cause-i-have-emotions-and-i-love-to-derive-meaning-from-the-most-obscure-and/or-obvious-details BLAH.
Enculturation plays a massive role in ANY narrative in ANY medium. It's the way of humanity. It's the fabric of our existence.

But when you have this character break down into tears when running up against a foe she has repeatedly defeated many times before then you are outright invoking her gender and the hysterical woman image.

And how are we supposed to clarify this? It's another technological constraint issue.

You wouldn't take a long standing black character and put him in a jester outfit chasing chickens and looking for watermelon powerups.

What a horrible comparative analogy you've got there.

Can you make a sexy female character? Sure
Can you make her weak? Sure. Especially when it matches her abilities in the series.
Can you make her bratty? Sure. Many games have done this and it's fine. You just don't do it to a character who has not been weak or bratty for over a decade.

Technology.

And if you don't like dealing with serious, real world issues then don't read the posts that do.

Yea, that people are hypersensitive and will derive meaning out of any detail where possible because they love to think they're full of values and meaning and there for, must scream it at the top of their lungs like they're running for election.

I can't wait for the 22nd Century where everyone will be tearing over how x character has a ring on it's finger discriminating against people who are married and that not all of them fighting aliens with plasma guns.

 

[RagnarokX]

Only works if it takes place before her numerous previous confrontations with the same thing. The character arc is completely out of place at this point in the timeline.

Not necessarily. The intro establishes that Samus is doubting herself because of the events of Super Metroid.

Spoiler

Plus this encounter is even more surprising given that Zebes was blown up. Wouldn't expect him to bounce back from that. She let her guard down and got a major shock.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

If they actually wanted to avoid the impression the story gives about Samus' gender, the solution was to make the Adam character female. They did not, and I believe that to be intentional.

Well, they kinda had to.

Since Metroid Fusion in 2002 had Samus speaking about a former CO she trusted named Adam Malkovich who was the only other CO she ever had before that game (she disdainfully hates the AI that's giving her orders

Spoiler

who actually turns out to be a construct based on Adam

).

 

[Deleted member 30609]

This thread has collectively put more thought into the story than Sakamoto did.

 

[wsippel]

Only works if it takes place before her numerous previous confrontations with the same thing. The character arc is completely out of place at this point in the timeline.

Twice. The latter of which seemed pretty final, too. We also have no idea what Samus thought the first two times.

Years have passed since Super Metroid's conclusion. It was the writers' decision to make her a mentally and emotionally fragile person years after the fact, and it was a bad one. It's fiction, they could do anything, and they chose to make her a weak and submissive character. No amount of speculative footwork you throw out there is going to change that. If they actually wanted to avoid the impression the story gives about Samus' gender, the solution was to make the Adam character female. They did not, and I believe that to be intentional. Further,

Spoiler

all the women in Other M are emotionally flawed and fragile, and require the assistance and/or interference of men to solve their problems. This is not by accident, and it is a distasteful thing.

It is very disappointing to see this in Metroid, one of the series best known for its strong depiction of a female character.

You're really reaching there. And I'm not speculating. I've finished the game. The G4 review is unprofessional, inexcusable, and complete and utter bullshit. Even more obvious considering it is completely at odds with pretty much every other review out there.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Only works if it takes place before her numerous previous confrontations with the same thing. The character arc is completely out of place at this point in the timeline.



Years have passed since Super Metroid's conclusion. It was the writers' decision to make her a mentally and emotionally fragile person years after the fact, and it was a bad one. It's fiction, they could do anything, and they chose to make her a weak and submissive character. No amount of speculative footwork you throw out there is going to change that. If they actually wanted to avoid the impression the story gives about Samus' gender, the solution was to make the Adam character female. They did not, and I believe that to be intentional. Further,

Spoiler

all the women in Other M are emotionally flawed and fragile, and require the assistance and/or interference of men to solve their problems. This is not by accident, and it is a distasteful thing.

It is very disappointing to see this in Metroid, one of the series best known for its strong depiction of a female character.

So Matt, for real, are G4 reviews from here on out going to take distasteful messages into account? Or is this just a one-time thing? I need to know whether or not your reviews are worth a damn anymore.

 

[bon]

The people trying to argue that this game is sexist are just joking around, right? :lol

 

[Poyunch]

Well, they kinda had to.

Since Metroid Fusion in 2002 had Samus speaking about a former CO she trusted named Adam Malkovich who was the only other CO she ever had before that game (she disdainfully hates the AI that's giving her orders

Spoiler

who actually turns out to be a construct based on Adam

).

Well still. They should have just made Adam a girl. It's a bit sexist to have gender specific names. This game is horrible.

The people trying to argue that this game is sexist are just joking around, right? :lol

I've given up on the matter. I just wish people would stop bringing it up.

 

[etiolate]

It is exhausting but it shouldn't be.

Final Conclusion: Metroid games do not exist in a vacuum free of social responsibility and Samus' character does not exist in a vacuum free of her other games and the player's input.

 

[Poyunch]

And to some people it's just a weak character who happens to be female while to others it's a weak female character. Both are due to bad writing.

 

[etiolate]

This thread has collectively put more thought into the story than Sakamoto did.

:lol :lol

 

[brandonh83]

I've given up on the matter. I just wish people would stop bringing it up.

I thought this too at first, but it's proving to be way too entertaining.

 

[Poyunch]

I thought this too at first, but it's proving to be way too entertaining.

Well let's hope that when the game comes out it's entertaining enough to stop this madness.

 

[gdt]

Man, I just perused this thread for a bit, holy fuck.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

It is exhausting but it shouldn't be.

Final Conclusion: Metroid games do not exist in a vacuum free of social responsibility and Samus' character does not exist in a vacuum free of her other games and the player's input.

If video games need to be socially responsible to be good, then we are FUCKED.

God damn, I really wish I could identify the point when gaming stopped being about gaming and started being about everything but gaming so I could fucking throw the lot that came up with the idea into a river.

 

[scitek]

So Matt, for real, are G4 reviews from here on out going to take distasteful messages into account? Or is this just a one-time thing? I need to know whether or not your reviews are worth a damn anymore.

When have their reviews ever been worth a damn? Their written reviews are barely passable, and X-Play's reviews have been immature and childish since Kate Botello left.

 

[Poyunch]

Man, I just perused this thread for a bit, holy fuck.

So we have sexist Metroid and Zelda timeline theorists. Let's fuck up Mario next, k?

 

[wsippel]

So Matt, for real, are G4 reviews from here on out going to take distasteful messages into account? Or is this just a one-time thing? I need to know whether or not your reviews are worth a damn anymore.

I expect a 1/5 for Gears of War 3. I mean, Epic even admitted that they designed the female characters (who are considerably less buff than their male colleagues) after Eastern European prostitutes. Doesn't get much more sexist than that.

 

[MechaX]

If video games need to be socially responsible to be good, then we are FUCKED.

God damn, I really wish I could identify the point when gaming stopped being about gaming and started being about everything but gaming so I could fucking throw the lot that came up with the idea into a river.

How else will games become art?!

 

[Wallach]

How else will games become art?!

Something about pissing on Ebert's lawn if I remember correctly...

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

When have their reviews ever been worth a damn? Their written reviews are barely passable, and X-Play's reviews have been immature and childish since Kate Botello left.

Their reviews are generally as good as anyone's, but if they're going to start docking points based on social responsibility, then they're absolutely fucking useless to me because I don't really give a fuck about Wally Bear and the No Gang when I'm trying to have fun whacking buttons.

 

[etiolate]

If video games need to be socially responsible to be good, then we are FUCKED.

God damn, I really wish I could identify the point when gaming stopped being about gaming and started being about everything but gaming so I could fucking throw the lot that came up with the idea into a river.

If you mean does a game have to be socially responsible to be fun then no, not at all. It doesn't mean that sexist messages can't be brought up, discussed and criticized. It is better that we're talking about this rather than ignoring it.

 

[scitek]

Their reviews are generally as good as anyone's, but if they're going to start docking points based on social responsibility, then they're absolutely fucking useless to me because I don't really give a fuck about Wally Bear and the No Gang when I'm trying to have fun whacking buttons.

:lol

 

[Gravijah]

If video games need to be socially responsible to be good, then we are FUCKED.

God damn, I really wish I could identify the point when gaming stopped being about gaming and started being about everything but gaming so I could fucking throw the lot that came up with the idea into a river.

Let's blame the 32 bit generation. It's always fun to blame it.

 

[Wallach]

Their reviews are generally as good as anyone's, but if they're going to start docking points based on social responsibility, then they're absolutely fucking useless to me because I don't really give a fuck about Wally Bear and the No Gang when I'm trying to have fun whacking buttons.

You damned social miscreant. Where is your controller honor?

 

[Regulus Tera]

If only Nintendo included that as a pre-order bonus item.

If only Atlus published this game.

 

[-tetsuo-]

This thread. What is happening.

 

[AniHawk]

So you're saying he's prone to giving games much higher scores than they deserve.

Nah, but if I still had my job at gamestop, we'd be coworkers.

 

[scitek]

This thread. What is happening.

That's a really good, but unanswerable, question. It's gone all over the place.

 

[Poyunch]

If you mean does a game have to be socially responsible to be fun then no, not at all. It doesn't mean that sexist messages can't be brought up, discussed and criticized. It is better that we're talking about this rather than ignoring it.

It is good to bring this to attention but to argue it for two days straight is idiotic. Almost no one has changed their opinion on the matter.

 

[brandonh83]

God damn, I really wish I could identify the point when gaming stopped being about gaming and started being about everything but gaming so I could fucking throw the lot that came up with the idea into a river.

:lol