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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him

S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
etiolate said:
If you mean does a game have to be socially responsible to be fun then no, not at all. It doesn't mean that sexist messages can't be brought up, discussed and criticized. It is better that we're talking about this rather than ignoring it.
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Okay, well, all I'm asking for is some consistency. If the issue is going to be discussed here and now I fully expect this to be an issue that is carefully watched for from here on out and the games that flag this issue to be docked appropriately.
 
M

MechaX

Member
I'm astonished.

This game some how managed to bring to light all the worst (and weird) qualities of the Metroid fanbase in one fell swoop when even Prime could not.
 
G

gdt

Member
Of course, I haven't played the game yet, but the general feeling I'm getting is that this game

A) Has a terrible story, of course

B) Butchers Samus as a character, who I've always seen as a strong female character. Probably the female character in gaming. She's a hunter, not a farmer. She's The Hunter.

Both of those tick me off, much more so the second one.

I can't wait to play it, but I admit I'm fearing the worse, which is sad for me to say in relation to a Metroid game.
 
D

Diffense

Member
Wow, people are still arguing about this game's 'sexism' when they still haven't played it.
BTW, after spending such a long time on a soap-box about the 'social responsibility' of games I sure hope etiolate doesn't play any game that involves killing human beings.
 
S

Sir Ilpalazzo

Member
It doesn't really sound like the game has "butchered" Samus's character. If I remember right, even the Metroid manga made her seem a little insecure.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Okay, well, all I'm asking for is some consistency. If the issue is going to be discussed here and now I fully expect this to be an issue that is carefully watched for from here on out and the games that flag this issue to be docked appropriately.
Click to expand...
David Cage is reading this right now and going into panic mode.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
This thread is seriously too funny. When did we as video game enthusiasts begin to take them so serious? How is it wrong for Samus to cry due to her being a woman but its ok for Jack FREAKING Bauer to cry after living through 8 years of pure misery, stopping the U.S. from basically being blown to pieces multiple times, bringing down many different Presidents, and many more traumatic experiences that I will not list due to them being spoilers. Seriously, GET THE FREAK OUT with your 'Samus shouldn't cry!!!!', give me a break. Who are you, Tom Hanks in 'A League of Their Own'?
 
G

gdt

Member
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
It doesn't really sound like the game has "butchered" Samus's character. If I remember right, even the Metroid manga made her seem a little insecure.
Click to expand...

I haven't read all that many reviews (just glanced over a few to avoid spoilers), but I wouldn't count insecurity as a negative in terms of Samus's character.

manga lol
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
I honestly don't see what making Samus a more fragile personality has anything to do with how badass she is at killing shit. Jason Voorhees only kills because the little bitch has serious mommy issues but holy fuck, just ask one of the Crystal Lake camp counselors how much of a bitch he really is

Samus might have the parenting of a Lost character, but she can still beat your ass. It changes nothing.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
brandonh83 said:
I honestly don't see what making Samus a more fragile personality has anything to do with how badass she is at killing shit. Jason Voorhees only kills because the little bitch has serious mommy issues but holy fuck, just ask one of the Crystal Lake camp counselors how much of a bitch he really is

Samus might have the parenting of a Lost character, but she can still beat your ass. It changes nothing.
Click to expand...
:lol :lol :lol
 
E

etiolate

Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:
Okay, well, all I'm asking for is some consistency. If the issue is going to be discussed here and now I fully expect this to be an issue that is carefully watched for from here on out and the games that flag this issue to be docked appropriately.
Click to expand...

There are people who do this. I pay attention to it here because Metroid is my favorite game series and Super/Prime excellent case studies for game studies.

Actually, in that way of game narrative studies, the sexism discussion has everything to do with games as games. I get the feeling Sakamoto didn't fully understand what he was doing with Other M in regards to what had been done in Metroid's collective narrative, so he created a story with little regard for games as games and ending up making something problematic and conflicting with the iconic character in question.
 
G

gdt

Member
brandonh83 said:
I honestly don't see what making Samus a more fragile personality has anything to do with how badass she is at killing shit. Jason Voorhees only kills because the little bitch has serious mommy issues but holy fuck, just ask one of the Crystal Lake camp counselors how much of a bitch he really is

Samus might have the parenting of a Lost character, but she can still beat your ass. It changes nothing.
Click to expand...

Again, making Samus more fragile wouldn't necessarily be a negative either (hell, if they could successfully do that while having Samus be as big a badass as ever that would be awesome). Bah, I should just stop talking about this till I've played the game.
 
P

Poyunch

Member
gdt5016 said:
Again, making Samus more fragile wouldn't necessarily be a negative either (hell, if they could successfully do that while having Samus be as big a badass as ever that would be awesome). Bah, I should just stop talking about this till I've played the game.
Click to expand...
Personally I like this. It gives the character some flaws and character depth as opposed to another badass video game character. I guess some people would be mad since she's been the only respectable female badass in gaming since forever but personally I find that archetype really shallow.
 
B

bon

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Okay, well, all I'm asking for is some consistency. If the issue is going to be discussed here and now I fully expect this to be an issue that is carefully watched for from here on out and the games that flag this issue to be docked appropriately.
Click to expand...
Mario Galaxy 2 should have a metascore of like 40%. God damn Peach always needing to be rescued, so sexist! !
 
L

LM4sure

Banned
Well I just played for the past 3 hours. It's a great game. Fuck all the negativity. The cut scenes are pretty terrible though. Really wish you could skip them.
 
P

Poyunch

Member
LM4sure said:
Well I just played for the past 3 hours. It's a great game. Fuck all the negativity. The cut scenes are pretty terrible though. Really wish you could skip them.
Click to expand...
So does it pierce your heart? Spill it. It's Confession Time now.
 
G

gdt

Member
PounchEnvy said:
Personally I like this. It gives the character some flaws and character depth as opposed to another badass video game character. I guess some people would be mad since she's been the only respectable female badass in gaming since forever but personally I find that archetype really shallow.
Click to expand...

But see, it's not like she was just a shallow badass in the Prime trilogy (I know I bring it up often, but when we read those Pirate logs about Samus, chills down the spine). She was a tough and solitary survivalist, not really just hot badass chick with a gun #675.

bon said:
Mario Galaxy 2 should have a metascore of like 40%. God damn Peach always needing to be rescued, so sexist! !
Click to expand...

Not to give weight to that argument, but there is a difference between Peach, and Samus Aran.

That's like saying GTA's city should get docked points for being too silly in comparison to Bioshock's.

Apples and Oranges.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
gdt5016 said:
But see, it's not like she was just a shallow badass in the Prime trilogy. She was a tough and solitary survivalist, not really just hot badass chick with a gun #675.



Not to give weight to that argument, but there is a difference between Peach, and Samus Aran.

That's like saying GTA's city should get docked points for being too silly in comparison to Bioshock's.

Apples and Oranges.
Click to expand...

GTA IV's city and Bioshock's should've both had points docked for not being fun to get around.

Ken Levine has a lot more room to do something with Bioshock Infinite but I get the feeling he's going to tell another story instead, and I will vomit with rage.
 
P

Poyunch

Member
gdt5016 said:
But see, it's not like she was just a shallow badass in the Prime trilogy (I know I bring it up often, but when we read those Pirate logs about Samus, chills down the spine). She was a tough and solitary survivalist, not really just hot badass chick with a gun #675.
Click to expand...
That still doesn't mean she can't be in Other M. She can still be a tough, solitary survivalist. People have breakdowns sometime. :p
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
gdt5016 said:
But see, it's not like she was just a shallow badass in the Prime trilogy (I know I bring it up often, but when we read those Pirate logs about Samus, chills down the spine). She was a tough and solitary survivalist, not really just hot badass chick with a gun #675.



Not to give weight to that argument, but there is a difference between Peach, and Samus Aran.

That's like saying GTA's city should get docked points for being too silly in comparison to Bioshock's.

Apples and Oranges.
Click to expand...
So some sexism matters, but some sexism doesn't. Tsk tsk, I'm reporting you to whatever agency gives a fuck about this, sir.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
gdt5016 said:
Again, making Samus more fragile wouldn't necessarily be a negative either (hell, if they could successfully do that while having Samus be as big a badass as ever that would be awesome). Bah, I should just stop talking about this till I've played the game.
Click to expand...
When it comes to killing shit, she's more badass than ever in Other M.
 
A

antonz

Member
PounchEnvy said:
Personally I like this. It gives the character some flaws and character depth as opposed to another badass video game character. I guess some people would be mad since she's been the only respectable female badass in gaming since forever but personally I find that archetype really shallow.
Click to expand...

Thats what I see the complaint basically comprising. Samus is no longer the female version of a bald space marine. There is actual depth to her character regardless if its positive or negative in certain peoples eyes and that depth doesnt line up with expectation so its suddenly horrible.

Yes female Bounty Hunters exist in the real world but lets be honest they are rare and nearly unheard and of those who have taken up the career have typically had a tough life and plenty of emotional baggage involved.
 
D

Diffense

Member
PounchEnvy said:
Personally I like this. It gives the character some flaws and character depth as opposed to another badass video game character. I guess some people would be mad since she's been the only respectable female badass in gaming since forever but personally I find that archetype really shallow.
Click to expand...

Yup, anything that transforms Samus from a mere killing machine is destruction of her character. ;)
I never imagined Samus as a thoughtless female Rambo so I guess that's why I'm not buthurt over having my misconceptions disabused.

In any case, it's pretty crazy to find the same argument on page 62 after last reading 52!
That is not so stimulating.
I'm definitely bailing again.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Could you summarize that a bit?

I am afraid to recklessly highlight it for a conclusion.
Click to expand...

None of it is actual story spoiler territory, just review/impression style write up...not sure why its spoilered in the first place :lol
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
I wish there was a way I could play some of Fusion before this. Oh well. Never got to play it. Maybe I'll have to track it down later on.
 
P

Poyunch

Member
Diffense said:
Yup, anything that transforms Samus from a mere killing machine is destruction of her character. ;)
I never imagined Samus as a thoughtless female Rambo so I guess that's why I'm not buthurt over having my misconceptions disabused.

In any case, it's pretty crazy to find the same argument on page 62 after last reading 52!
That is not so stimulating.
I'm definitely bailing again.
Click to expand...
You'll be back. No one ever truly leaves.
5drrew.jpg
 
S

sphinx

the piano man
brandonh83 said:
I wish there was a way I could play some of Fusion before this. Oh well. Never got to play it. Maybe I'll have to track it down later on.
Click to expand...

go to gamestop, buy Fusion used and play it on your DS?
 
K

kiryogi

Banned
Screw the haters. Games pretty awesome so far. I got to spend an hour on it @ a display in my local gamestop. I really coudlt hear much since it was @ the mall. But the gameplay and controls? Its solid. The first person switching was odd at first but once you get used to it. Its pretty good. I think my only annoyance with it is how long it takes for you to get a lockon so you could fire a missile. Meanwhile, sense move is really responsive. Its almost too lenient imo. I don't see the complaints about it. If my save file is still there tomorrow ilm gonna try and spend another hour there. Its so awesome.
 
D

Diffense

Member
schennmu said:
Is Samus or Sakamoto sexist? I'm not sure anymore.
Click to expand...

Play the game.
This ridiculously long tangent was sparked by ONE review, to my knowledge.
It makes no sense to ask this question when most of us haven't played.

PounchEnvy said:
You'll be back. No one ever truly leaves.
5drrew.jpg
Click to expand...

Of course I'll be back!
lol
But I'll take a break :p
 
G

gdt

Member
PounchEnvy said:
That still doesn't mean she can't be in Other M. She can still be a tough, solitary survivalist. People have breakdowns sometime. :p
Click to expand...

I know! I agree, I'm just spouting my negative fears. I hope whatever they've done to Samus works. I really do.

wsippel said:
When it comes to killing shit, she's more badass than ever in Other M.
Click to expand...

That's a plus, I guess, but not really what I was talking about.

antonz said:
Thats what I see the complaint basically comprising. Samus is no longer the female version of a bald space marine. There is actual depth to her character regardless if its positive or negative in certain peoples eyes and that depth doesnt line up with expectation so its suddenly horrible.
Yes female Bounty Hunters exist in the real world but lets be honest they are rare and nearly unheard and of those who have taken up the career have typically had a tough life and plenty of emotional baggage involved.
Click to expand...

I've never really seen Samus as a bald space marine, like, at all.

What's going on in the second paragraph :lol ?



Bah, I don't really have an opinion on whatever Metroid Other M does to Samus, seeing as how I haven't played the game. I was merely commenting and the worst of the worst of outcomes. "It would suck if this game does so and so..."

I should get it this week, so I guess we'll see.







If this game does follow through on my worst fears, there will be hell to pay :p.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
MattKeil said:
Years have passed since Super Metroid's conclusion. It was the writers' decision to make her a mentally and emotionally fragile person years after the fact, and it was a bad one. It's fiction, they could do anything, and they chose to make her a weak and submissive character. No amount of speculative footwork you throw out there is going to change that. If they actually wanted to avoid the impression the story gives about Samus' gender, the solution was to make the Adam character female. They did not, and I believe that to be intentional. Further,
all the women in Other M are emotionally flawed and fragile, and require the assistance and/or interference of men to solve their problems. This is not by accident, and it is a distasteful thing.
It is very disappointing to see this in Metroid, one of the series best known for its strong depiction of a female character.
Click to expand...
You don't recover from trauma that easily. This is the first Metroid where we get an in-depth look into Samus' thoughts. Until now all we've seen are her actions. Her actions in Other M from what I've seen are fairly consistent with her previous games, we're just getting to know how she really feels on the inside. We don't know how she felt in previous games. To elaborate further on the specific scene you take issue with
In all previous encounters with Ridley, Samus was on a mission to fight space pirates and Ridley was an expected threat that she had time to prepare herself to face. That isn't the case here. She's responding to an urgent distress signal.

Also, I think the fact that you think that everything would be fine if Adam were female weakens your argument and makes it come across as sexist. It seems the only reason you perceive a problem is because he's male and has nothing to do with the actual narrative the game presents. A male and female can't share mutual respect without the male being sexist? Him being an authority figure is apart from gender. Samus could disobey him, but she'd be going against the organization she works for and betraying his friendship. I mean, Samus even flat out states that she respects him because he ISN'T sexist. Hell,
all of those males couldn't even open a door without Samus.
 
K

Kard8p3

Member
brandonh83 said:
I wish there was a way I could play some of Fusion before this. Oh well. Never got to play it. Maybe I'll have to track it down later on.
Click to expand...

You should definitely find a way to play fusion. I played through it again today and the game is still awesome. Other M from what I've seen and heard is pretty much a 3D fusion. Actually I'd wait till after playing Other M to play fusion. If Other M really ends up leading into fusion it would be interesting to see how you respond to certain things.
 
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