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[Boney]

People forget things far too quickly.

Yeah.. from like the last page.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

ATTENTION INTERNET.

PLEASE NOTE DOTS ON MAP.

THANK YOU.

Yeah but that's different somehow.

 

[yoopoo]

Gamefly sent out this game today. Soon I'll be able experience how terrible this game is compared to Retro's efforts, as I have already decided that I like the Prime game much better.

 

[Doorman]

ATTENTION INTERNET.

PLEASE NOTE DOTS ON MAP.

THANK YOU.

No, thank you. Boy, revisionist history sure is fun sometimes.

Hell, in Fusion and Zero Mission, they were even nice enough to show you whether or not you'd actually collected the item. And while some might consider it fun to experience that moment of "wait...did I get that one already or did I have to pass it?" I don't object to streamlining that approach a bit.

 

[Red]

Gamefly sent out this game today. Soon I'll be able experience how terrible this game is compared to Retro's efforts, as I have already decided that I like the Prime game much better.

I am right with you. I can't pay this $50 fast enough to see how bad this game is.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I liked talking about the majesty of games earlier better than Other M. Let's make the Other M OT about that again.

 

[Kard8p3]

ATTENTION INTERNET.

PLEASE NOTE DOTS ON MAP.

THANK YOU.

Exactly. It doesn't show every item on the map but according to another guy in this topic Other M doesn't show every item either so it would seem there's no real difference.

 

[Red]

I liked talking about the majesty of games earlier better than Other M. Let's make the Other M OT about that again.

What majesty? The series lost it after Metroid 1, IMO. Metroid II was far too linear and Super Metroid clearly took away all sense of exploration by showing items on the map.

 

[marathonfool]

The X-Ray Scope and hidden passages were the core of exploration in Super Metroid. Not the dots on the map. The X-Ray Scope was an invaluable tool for someone who wanted find everything by themselves. Does Other M have a mechanic similar to the the X-Ray Scope?

 

[Kard8p3]

Metroid in five minute by IGN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOvDs6sP1oQ

 

[Boney]

The X-Ray Scope and hidden passages were the core of exploration in Super Metroid. Not the dots on the map. The X-Ray Scope was an invaluable tool for someone who wanted find everything by themselves. Does Other M have a mechanic similar to the the X-Ray Scope?

First Person.

 

[John Harker]

Hrmph, I really hope this game does well. I rarely watch TV, yet I don't think I've seen as many Nintendo commercials as I have for this title. At least, pure-game commericals that don't co-promote the console itself. And I thought that longform spot was only for digital!

Excited, getting my copy at lunch tomorrow.

 

[The Technomancer]

ATTENTION INTERNET.

PLEASE NOTE DOTS ON MAP.

THANK YOU.

Actually....were Prime 1 and 2 the only games to not give you any clue where stuff was on the maps? (aside from the intermittent hints of where to go if you had those turned on_

 

[John Harker]

Hmmm? Was there supposed to an Amazon credit and/or a Prime upgrade to free release date shipping? If so, Amazon gave me neither. I'm a Prime member and it hadn't shipped yet by noon, and was slated for delivery NEXT week. Fuck that.

Nassau Street by Fulton.

Not far. What's the store name?
Though I didn't see this till now, so I suppose it won't matter after tomorrow :lol

 

[etiolate]

oh how toastyfrog has fallen

Thankfully, Other M does make an effort to advance. Its cutscenes are wretched and invasive, sure, but they're the most involved that have ever come from an internally developed Nintendo game. Other M's plot bits come off with that awkward quality of early PlayStation games, because that's precisely where Nintendo is in terms of narrative design: where everyone else was 15 years ago. Maybe the next time around, they'll catch up with the rest of the industry and create something that isn't quite so dated and cringeworthy.

The highlighted is all sorts of ignorance. If you understood narrative design, you'd understand that Super Metroid was years ahead of where this game is. Throwing in cutscenes is not an advancement in narrative design. You can argue it's horribly behind in the writing of the cutscenes, in the dialogue and such, but Other M is a huge step backwards in narrative design from where Prime 1 and Metroid 3 were.

 

[marathonfool]

First Person.

Does first person view add an additional filter or scan? Or is it just to view the terrain from another angle?

 

[Defunkled]

oh how toastyfrog has fallen



The highlighted is all sorts of ignorance. If you understood narrative design, you'd understand that Super Metroid was years ahead of where this game is. Throwing in cutscenes is not an advancement in narrative design. You can argue it's horribly behind in the writing of the cutscenes, in the dialogue and such, but Other M is a huge step backwards in narrative design from where Prime 1 and Metroid 3 were.

Yeah, that article wasn't thought-out very well.

 

[Mejilan]

Not far. What's the store name?
Though I didn't see this till now, so I suppose it won't matter after tomorrow :lol

Mom & Pop shops have names?
Sorry, but there really aren't any others within like 3 blocks.
It's literally on Nassau, practically at the corner of Nassau and Fulton.
Between John and Fulton, much closer to Fulton.
It's on the side of Nassau that you'd see if you were walking from the World Trade Center area towards the water (and Water Street, where I work, incidentally).

I can get a building number and shop name tomorrow during my lunch break, if you need it.
For future reference. Ever since they sold me DQIX 3 or 4 days earlier, it's become my Nintendo game street date-breaking store of choice!

 

[Boney]

Does first person view add an additional filter or scan? Or is it just to view the terrain from another angle?

You can lock on and "analyze" stuff. You need to use to clear debris and get a closer look on what's that little thing there. From where I'm standing, it's very similar to the X-Visor from SM. Not really comparable to the Prime Visors..

 

[Kard8p3]

Does first person view add an additional filter or scan? Or is it just to view the terrain from another angle?

It's to view the terrain from another angle. If you move the cursor to a point of interest it'll lock onto it.

 

[beelzebozo]

oh how toastyfrog has fallen



The highlighted is all sorts of ignorance. If you understood narrative design, you'd understand that Super Metroid was years ahead of where this game is. Throwing in cutscenes is not an advancement in narrative design. You can argue it's horribly behind in the writing of the cutscenes, in the dialogue and such, but Other M is a huge step backwards in narrative design from where Prime 1 and Metroid 3 were.

i don't know why you keep getting so much ridicule here. you've got some great points and speak them eloquently. i fail to see the problem.

 

[etiolate]

What are people's opinion's on the placement of the morphball button? Any consensus on whether it was best to be wiimote only?

I know many people won't have the game until tomorrow, but there's people posting that have played it.

 

[Windom Earle]

I'm now about 8 hours in, and it's hard finding reasons to continue. I really wanted to like this, but eh. It's so boring The story doesn't make any sense, the dialogue and monologues are horrible written, the combat feels wrong, the exploration is almost gone (secrets on the map, wtf), music is not memorable or even present, controls leave a lot to be desired, voice acting is crap, enemies are not varied enough. Ugh.

Oh well.

Got the game today and played around 6 hours. After initially liking it (it feels fresh and I think the graphics are amazing for a Wii game) I have to agree with you. It's getting boring and I don't even want to continue playing. The controls are innovative but just good. Not great.
I actually like the cutscenes though :lol

edit: I don't really get the complaints about the item locations. The items are still hard to find and the map is not precise enough to give the exact location.

 

[Poyunch]

oh how toastyfrog has fallen



The highlighted is all sorts of ignorance. If you understood narrative design, you'd understand that Super Metroid was years ahead of where this game is. Throwing in cutscenes is not an advancement in narrative design. You can argue it's horribly behind in the writing of the cutscenes, in the dialogue and such, but Other M is a huge step backwards in narrative design from where Prime 1 and Metroid 3 were.

You're missing the point. For a Metroid game it's far from subtle but from a presentational standpoint it's a clear improvement for Nintendo. Maybe it was not a good idea to do this for Metroid but that's not the point he was trying to make.

 

[John Harker]

Mom & Pop shops have names?
Sorry, but there really aren't any others within like 3 blocks.
It's literally on Nassau, practically at the corner of Nassau and Fulton.
Between John and Fulton, much closer to Fulton.
It's on the side of Nassau that you'd see if you were walking from the World Trade Center area towards the water (and Water Street, where I work, incidentally).

I can get a building number and shop name tomorrow during my lunch break, if you need it.
For future reference. Ever since they sold me DQIX 3 or 4 days earlier, it's become my Nintendo game street date-breaking store of choice!

Woa. You kinda just blew my mind, I'm in that area all the time and I never noticed.
If you manage to grab a street number, let me know. Don't go out of your way though!

 

[tim.mbp]

My order has shipped from Walmart. It's like Christmas Eve.

 

[Prime Blue]

What are people's opinion's on the placement of the morphball button?

It's totally sexist.

 

[Mejilan]

Haha, Nintendo's started date-checking their Club Nintendo registration?
I just tried to register the code that came with my game, and it spat out and error about the game or system not yet having been released. Weird.

Woa. You kinda just blew my mind, I'm in that area all the time and I never noticed.
If you manage to grab a street number, let me know. Don't go out of your way though!

I'll PM you the name and/or address tomorrow.
I only found the store by accident a month or so ago.
Amusingly, while looking for an old (now closed down) mom & pop shop I used to frequent around 7 or 8 years ago when I last worked in the downtown area.

 

[Az987]

My Amazon order still isn't even being prepped for shipping yet. I chose release-day delivery.

mine hasn't either. Hmm, I wonder whats up

 

[Throwaway123456789]

asked earlier...

are you using the sense move, overblasts and lethal strikes?

All of them. I think I'm nearing the end, but who knows. I'm starting to see where the story is going, but the script is like some 12 year old kid wrote a fanfic - it's so bad. The dialogue gets annoyingly so later on in the game.

Sigh.

 

[etiolate]

You're missing the point. For a Metroid game it's far from subtle but from a presentational standpoint it's a clear improvement for Nintendo. Maybe it was not a good idea to do this for Metroid but that's not the point he was trying to make.

I am pretty sure "narative design" doesn't mean production value.

 

[timetokill]

that's precisely where Nintendo is in terms of narrative design: where everyone else was 15 years ago.

Oh god.

 

[Doorman]

The highlighted is all sorts of ignorance. If you understood narrative design, you'd understand that Super Metroid was years ahead of where this game is. Throwing in cutscenes is not an advancement in narrative design. You can argue it's horribly behind in the writing of the cutscenes, in the dialogue and such, but Other M is a huge step backwards in narrative design from where Prime 1 and Metroid 3 were.

I think that perhaps you're taking the way he phrased that a bit too literally. Forget for a second about the way that Super Metroid presented itself and think about what Other M is and what it tries to accomplish from its narrative standpoint. This sort of method of telling a story in a game, the "preplanned cinematic" approach with numerous cutscenes, full voice acting, and a very direct, movie-like approach is something that Nintendo has extremely little experience in, and it shows in the way that Parish describes. Nintendo is indeed fifteen years behind other game developers when it comes to telling a story in that sort of way. The way that Super Metroid does its thing is a different style entirely. There is more than one way to tell a story after all, and you're acting like when it comes to Metroid, only one way is "right."

Frankly, I still think you're giving Super Metroid's storytelling a little bit too much credit, but that's my personal opinion and doesn't really speak to the purpose of this thread. My point of issue here is with the people that can't seem to get it to stick in their brains that Other M is purposefully different than Super's approach and continue to incessantly compare the two.

 

[Thoraxes]

mine hasn't either. Hmm, I wonder whats up

Neither has mine. It just says it's preparing for shipping, and I too have release date delivery.

 

[Red]

Neither has mine. It just says it's preparing for shipping, and I too have release date delivery.

Your avatar perfectly illustrates how I feel every time I check my amazon account to see it hasn't shipped yet.

 

[brandonh83]

that's precisely where Nintendo is in terms of narrative design: where everyone else was 15 years ago.

Wow! What a mansion!

 

[gdt]

Narrative design != cutscenes.

Crawling through the Space Pirate labs and reading their logs in MP1 was some of the best stuff ever, and it was totally optional and unintrusive.

MP1 was full of stuff like that.

 

[Absoludacrous]

I am pretty sure "narative design" doesn't mean production value.

It doesn't mean atmosphere either.

 

[etiolate]

I think that perhaps you're taking the way he phrased that a bit too literally. Forget for a second about the way that Super Metroid presented itself and think about what Other M is and what it tries to accomplish from its narrative standpoint. This sort of method of telling a story in a game, the "preplanned cinematic" approach with numerous cutscenes, full voice acting, and a very direct, movie-like approach is something that Nintendo has extremely little experience in, and it shows in the way that Parish describes. Nintendo is indeed fifteen years behind other game developers when it comes to telling a story in that sort of way. The way that Super Metroid does its thing is a different style entirely. There is more than one way to tell a story after all, and you're acting like when it comes to Metroid, only one way is "right."

Frankly, I still think you're giving Super Metroid's storytelling a little bit too much credit, but that's my personal opinion and doesn't really speak to the purpose of this thread. My point of issue here is with the people that can't seem to get it to stick in their brains that Other M is purposefully different than Super's approach and continue to incessantly compare the two.

Yes, it is behind in what some would call the 'cinema envy' style of story telling in games, but Parish's article presents a real problem and then a false evaluation. He talks about how its hard to take an established franchise and make a sequel without just simply copying what you did before and being called uncreative, or doing something different and face the wrath of traditionalists. This is a real issue. The question screwed up is why this is an issue.

Parish's mistake, and maybe yours, is assuming critics of Other M just want Super Metroid repackaged over and over. His other mistake is considering Other M's changes as an advancement. It is not just simply another way of telling a story, but a weaker, older way. People were doing this fifteen years ago on the playstation because people were far more naive about videogame's ability to tell stories. They just took another media's form and stuck it in. It's the silent film comparison thing over and over. Everytime you toss in a slate of text into a silent film, you're cheating the medium. Since that time fifteen years ago, people have put more thought into the issue of storytelling and come to realize what Super Metroid did was more advanced and worth pursuing.

And that is where the false dichotomy comes in. There is room for advancement through traditional structure. You don't need to throw out key concepts and pre-established working elements to advance the game series. You look at what needs work and improve it, and you look at what you can add. I like Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, and yes they do different things, but not so drastically different as Other M does. At their core, they are Zelda games. People reacted harshly because they threw in a new artstyle or new time concept, but they never felt like a non-Zelda game. You can do the same thing with Metroid.

Parish claims its an advancement when it is a regression. That and the dichotomy is the underlying problem with his article.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Narrative design != cutscenes.

Crawling through the Space Pirate labs and reading their logs in MP1 was some of the best stuff ever, and it was totally optional and unintrusive.

MP1 was full of stuff like that.

I second this. Completely loved the original Prime's narrative design. I know it's nothing new (System Shock and countless others before did it), but I just loved that in a metroid game.

 

[Boney]

Narrative design != cutscenes.

Crawling through the Space Pirate labs and reading their logs in MP1 was some of the best stuff ever, and it was totally optional and unintrusive.

MP1 was full of stuff like that.

It was genious. The only flaw was walking around in the scan visor all the time, but it was a great little system that deserves all the credit it gets.

Other M will definately be standard when it comes to videogame storytelling with a bad story/translation to boot. I'll probably face palm like a million times, but enjoy it nevertheless.

But if this is the reason people say that Retro should handle Metroid, and Sakamoto's team should back into a corner. I think they're crazy.

 

[Plinko]

Maybe they didn't get enough supply to meet demand? =/

I doubt it--I ordered mine on June 15 and it doesn't look to be shipping yet, either.

 

[Doorman]

Parish's mistake, and maybe yours, is assuming critics of Other M just want Super Metroid repackaged over and over.

Well if nothing else, I'm glad we can at least apparently agree on how much of a mistake that would probably be. :lol

His other mistake is considering Other M's changes as an advancement. It is not just simply another way of telling a story, but a weaker, older way. People were doing this fifteen years ago on the playstation because people were far more naive about videogame's ability to tell stories. They just took another media's form and stuck it in.

Video games have a unique ability in terms of storytelling and having an impact on the person experiencing it, this is true. I do think you're getting dangerously close to a blanket thinking that that particular method of telling a story in a game is inherently superior at all times, though. Not all games have to approach their stories in the same way, so is it really so wrong to think that this is just the stylistic choice Sakamoto made to give people a direct look into the sort of person that Samus is? Would you accuse movies of just "taking book's form and sticking pictures in?" That is, admittedly, kind of an inane analogy, but my point being that there's no reason to forbid a marriage of movie-style storytelling and game-style storytelling if that's how the text's creator(s) want to do things.

I like Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, and yes they do different things, but not so drastically different as Other M does. At their core, they are Zelda games. People reacted harshly because they threw in a new artstyle or new time concept, but they never felt like a non-Zelda game. You can do the same thing with Metroid.

I figured that this is what it would come back to. Just like I said a few posts ago, all fans of the Metroid series have their own notions about what the core principle of the franchise is or should be, and by now it's rather obvious that you place a great deal of importance on the way through which they tell their stories. Not everybody places that much importance on it, though. So, maybe Other M just isn't for you, but that doesn't mean that there aren't others among the fanbase (like myself) who don't mind some deviation in those aspects.

I wouldn't be thrilled with the prospect of all future Metroids turning into Fanal Fantasy XIII-style stories, but the developers are free to do what they want to, and I can see why among Nintendo's major-known franchises, they would agree to let Metroid be the series that takes a first serious stab at this method of storytelling.

 

[donkey show]

I doubt it--I ordered mine on June 15 and it doesn't look to be shipping yet, either.

It'll refresh like later on tonight but you'll definitely get yours tomorrow. It's happened before with Amazon when it comes to release day shipping.

 

[andymcc]

i don't know why you keep getting so much ridicule here. you've got some great points and speak them eloquently. i fail to see the problem.

there was this metroid thread from a few months ago where he said some legendarily terrible things and was rightfully banned. lord knows that's why i still give the dude shit.

 

[Snaku]

I doubt it--I ordered mine on June 15 and it doesn't look to be shipping yet, either.

But it's Metroid, with a $20 game credit, and ranked #2 in video game sales on Amazon. It's like a perfect shitstorm for potential supply shortage rage.

 

[Teknoman]

It'll refresh like later on tonight but you'll definitely get yours tomorrow. It's happened before with Amazon when it comes to release day shipping.

I hope so. Mine is still labeled shipping soon. When Amazon does release day, does it ship via USPS or UPS?

 

[etiolate]

there was this metroid thread from a few months ago where he said some legendarily terrible things and was rightfully banned. lord knows that's why i still give the dude shit.

heh

those "legendarily terrible things" all came out to have merit

 

[Volcynika]

I hope so. Mine is still labeled shipping soon. When Amazon does release day, does it ship via USPS or UPS?

UPS

 

[Kard8p3]

The kind of story they wanted to tell with this game can't really be accomplished with the Super Metroid style. The cinematic approach was probably the best way to handle it though it's unfortunate that the dialogue seems to be pretty bad. Still they should be commended for the seamless transitions from gameplay to cutscene and vice versa.