GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Everyone here is ignoring the elephant in the room, which is the game's portrayal of extra terrestrial life, followed by its indiscriminate termination. It's appalling.Segata Sanshiro said:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him
- Thread starter Sadist
- Start date
marathonfool
Member
When you start bashing or praising the reviewer, make sure it's the right one.
donkey show
Member
I Push Fat Kids said:See, I've met you in real life which means I know what yourlooks like and I can actually trust your adoration. PUMPED.
*fistbump*
Actually, I'm kinda surprised you remember after how trashed you were that night. :lol
Segata Sanshiro said:
:lol you never fail to amuse me.
Gin said:
Meh just try to enjoy the game for what it brings to the table, as I suspected as soon as Team Ninja's involvement was announced and from the trailer, I knew it was going to be an action game. As long as you can look past the BLATANT sexism the game presents and how politically incorrect it is you should be fine.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Alright, I just put about an hour into the game. Here are my impressions.
Graphics - Very good for a Wii game. I'm not as adept at picking up the difference between 30 & 60 fps, but this is very smooth. The environments look very good so far. It's really nice to see Samus' suit again and as good as the Retro games were, I really like her model in this game. It looks much better. Also, the game has a certain arcadey vibe to it, much like F-Zero GX and the opening level of Star Fox Assault. The cinematics are also very well done. The game is very fluid and the transitions between first person and the cinematics are extremely smooth. I haven't had one load time yet and the game has probably split between cut scenes as well as different levels at least twice. There are some jagged edges present as well as some low textures, but this is a Wii game we're talking about.
Gameplay - I'm surprised that I'm complaining about this. I really want to like it, but there are a few things I just can't get past. First, the d-pad on the Wiimote is tiny. I don't think I would mind using it if it were the size of the d-pad on the classic controller. The next problem is pointing at the screen. I works really good for looking around a room, but not for precise aiming in the middle of the action. Think about how slow paced the Prime games were and think about how fast paced Ninja Gaiden games are. Now imagine having to switch back and forth between the two. It's a terrible design choice, perhaps the worst one in the game. Like I said, it works well for looking around a room, but the only way you can use missiles is in first person. They really should have used the nun-chuck in this game. It would have solved so many issues. Lastly, I will give some praise. This game has opened up a whole new mechanic that needs to be explored. I really like the seamlessness of the combat. Everything is extremely smooth and polished. Finishing an enemy, dodging and aiming are all new ideas. It really is the first game I can think of that has combat like this. It's an interesting twist, but it really speeds things up. If they could only fix the controls, it would be a much better game. Instead your crippled with only using the Wiimote.
Story - A lot of people have complained about this but I don't find it quit as repulsive as some have made it out to be. Anyone who has followed the Metroid series knows that they were leading up to some major details of Samus being revealed. We have finally reached the point to where those details are revealed. So far, it's not what's being done to Samus as a character that's most disappointing, but the way they did it. There are times when I just want her to shut up. Whenever she first landed at the space station she didn't say a word. I suddenly felt that sense of isolation that makes her feel like such a badass. Then, she opens her mouth. Uhhh. It's not even the fact that there are other humans involved. I just wish they wouldn't have given her a voice at all except for in narration. They could have done it like they do in the Zelda games where the character doesn't talk. Here's an example.
Samus: "I'm here because I responded to a distress call."
Or
Adam Malkovich: "So Samus, I guess you got the distress call too."
Both ways tell you why Samus went to the Space Station except one retains that sense of mystery behind the character. Anyway, there's a lot left to the game for me to explore, but I feel like the series is slowly losing what made it so great. Hopefully they can fix all of this because I feel like if they took all of the best elements from every game up until this point, they could make the ultimate Metroid game.
Graphics - Very good for a Wii game. I'm not as adept at picking up the difference between 30 & 60 fps, but this is very smooth. The environments look very good so far. It's really nice to see Samus' suit again and as good as the Retro games were, I really like her model in this game. It looks much better. Also, the game has a certain arcadey vibe to it, much like F-Zero GX and the opening level of Star Fox Assault. The cinematics are also very well done. The game is very fluid and the transitions between first person and the cinematics are extremely smooth. I haven't had one load time yet and the game has probably split between cut scenes as well as different levels at least twice. There are some jagged edges present as well as some low textures, but this is a Wii game we're talking about.
Gameplay - I'm surprised that I'm complaining about this. I really want to like it, but there are a few things I just can't get past. First, the d-pad on the Wiimote is tiny. I don't think I would mind using it if it were the size of the d-pad on the classic controller. The next problem is pointing at the screen. I works really good for looking around a room, but not for precise aiming in the middle of the action. Think about how slow paced the Prime games were and think about how fast paced Ninja Gaiden games are. Now imagine having to switch back and forth between the two. It's a terrible design choice, perhaps the worst one in the game. Like I said, it works well for looking around a room, but the only way you can use missiles is in first person. They really should have used the nun-chuck in this game. It would have solved so many issues. Lastly, I will give some praise. This game has opened up a whole new mechanic that needs to be explored. I really like the seamlessness of the combat. Everything is extremely smooth and polished. Finishing an enemy, dodging and aiming are all new ideas. It really is the first game I can think of that has combat like this. It's an interesting twist, but it really speeds things up. If they could only fix the controls, it would be a much better game. Instead your crippled with only using the Wiimote.
Story - A lot of people have complained about this but I don't find it quit as repulsive as some have made it out to be. Anyone who has followed the Metroid series knows that they were leading up to some major details of Samus being revealed. We have finally reached the point to where those details are revealed. So far, it's not what's being done to Samus as a character that's most disappointing, but the way they did it. There are times when I just want her to shut up. Whenever she first landed at the space station she didn't say a word. I suddenly felt that sense of isolation that makes her feel like such a badass. Then, she opens her mouth. Uhhh. It's not even the fact that there are other humans involved. I just wish they wouldn't have given her a voice at all except for in narration. They could have done it like they do in the Zelda games where the character doesn't talk. Here's an example.
Samus: "I'm here because I responded to a distress call."
Or
Adam Malkovich: "So Samus, I guess you got the distress call too."
Both ways tell you why Samus went to the Space Station except one retains that sense of mystery behind the character. Anyway, there's a lot left to the game for me to explore, but I feel like the series is slowly losing what made it so great. Hopefully they can fix all of this because I feel like if they took all of the best elements from every game up until this point, they could make the ultimate Metroid game.
But this is the thing. No one has said it's blatant. If it's present, it seems to be quite subtle. Most sexism is. Normally we don't even detect sexism because we've been raised within the patriarchal structures that sustain it.Solune said:
I'm not trying to restart the debate. But I do feel that if you guys are going to continue to relentlessly moan about the criticisms, then I'm well within my rights to try and clarify things.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
I didn't realize I had beat the game until halfway through the ending.
Queen Metroid was a nice surprise though
donkey show
Member
Lost Fragment said:
You're not done yet. =P
MadOdorMachine said:
Theres like 2 seconds of slow-mo (enemies go into slow-motion, you can aim at normal speed) when you go from third person to first person view that are just enough to point and shoot what you want in the middle of combat. Specially when an enemy is stunned.
I think it works.
Choppasmith
Member
Hearing the negative impressions and reviews definitely leaves a frown on my face. But since I'm getting it 20 dollars cheaper AND get another 20$ off by getting it from Amazon AND the extra Club Nintendo points I'm sticking with it.
The only thing that bugged me about the G4/X-Play review is that Morgan's always the first to take jabs at Nintendo. At E3 she just had to play the role of "Nintendo Hater" and say Nintendo's E3 showing was not impressive at all and that Nintendo is just doing the same old same old and that Nintendo REALLY needs to do something new. So along comes Other M and it's "Wahhh they changed the franchise for the worse" I was expecting a least a little acknowledgement of it being something new in a good way, but she came off a little hypocritical to me.
BTW for those who have the game. Anyone read the official Metroid Manga? How much of it is used in the game? Just curious because the idea of seeing the Manga in Game form was one of the things that piqued my interest in this title in the first place.
The only thing that bugged me about the G4/X-Play review is that Morgan's always the first to take jabs at Nintendo. At E3 she just had to play the role of "Nintendo Hater" and say Nintendo's E3 showing was not impressive at all and that Nintendo is just doing the same old same old and that Nintendo REALLY needs to do something new. So along comes Other M and it's "Wahhh they changed the franchise for the worse" I was expecting a least a little acknowledgement of it being something new in a good way, but she came off a little hypocritical to me.
BTW for those who have the game. Anyone read the official Metroid Manga? How much of it is used in the game? Just curious because the idea of seeing the Manga in Game form was one of the things that piqued my interest in this title in the first place.
Socreges said:But this is the thing. No one has said it's blatant. If it's present, it seems to be quite subtle. Most sexism is. Normally we don't even detect sexism because we've been raised within the patriarchal structures that sustain it.
I'm not trying to restart the debate. But I do feel that if you guys are going to continue to relentlessly moan about the criticisms, then I'm well within my rights to try and clarify things.
You didn't activate your sarcasm detector
.I knew it was sarcastic. And that's why I replied. You're obviously saying you think that it's not blatant, but for the sarcasm to work there has to be someone out there saying it is. Get what I mean?Solune said:You didn't activate your sarcasm detector
Sorry for the aggressive use of italics!
I'm sitting through the cutscenes again for footage for my video review and it's just an awful translation that I think is the real culprit here. That coupled with the direction from Sakamoto for Samus' lines to not sound like a typical voice actress, but rather like someone just recounting events, and it's hard to make out what she's talking about a lot of times. It's also just a hokey story overall--the non-Samus Bottle Ship stuff--I really don't mind Samus' background info, it's just the dialogue that really gets in the way.
donkey show
Member
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I don't know either. :lolkiryogi said:
Nah I got that. So is it when you get grabbed by an enemy? I recall seeing on a stream where the guy was facing somedonkey show said:
space pirates
This pic right here!!!
kiryogi said:Nah I got that. So is it when you get grabbed by an enemy? I recall seeing on a stream where the guy was facing someand he was doing some fancy kicks on them. D: I'd always just end up jumping on them and blasting them in the face.space pirates
This pic right here!!!
There are times when they'll grab you and you have a window of opportunity to do a counter attack. That kick is the counter for space pirates.
Cygnus X-1
Member
MadOdorMachine said:
Thanks for your feedback. I don't agree with your conclusions, because the Metroid series isn't losing anything. It's just that it should not have been developed by Team Ninja. It is just as simple as it is.
The second of four reviews coming from the staff of Metroid Database has been posted
http://www.metroid-database.com/mom/review_Asaic.php
He gave it a 9.
http://www.metroid-database.com/mom/review_Asaic.php
He gave it a 9.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I have to admit, some of the style of fan reaction bothers me for what seems like a lack of perspective. Had this game been called Metroid 5 or Metroid Prime 4, had it been kept mysterious what the style of the game was like up until release with typical Nintendo secrecy, I could understand the shock, confusion, and in some cases, sense of betrayal.
But it isn't Metroid 5 or Prime IV. It was never advertised as anything but an alternate take on Metroid, a side game, and the fact that Team Ninja was developing it was emphasized because it was going to be different. Everything focused on the fact that it was more action oriented (and yes, there were indications it was linear) and story oriented. People had a year to get over the fact that Samus was going to be talking and the entire premise of the game was to expand Metroid from this perception of a minimal-story silent/lonely/oppressive exploration game to something else.
A lot of how you take something depends on your expectations going into it; you can be pleasantly surprised or bitterly disappointed depending entirely on those expectations when the product at hand remains exactly the same.
I'm having trouble reconciling that the people who seem as if they should have known better - the professed big time Metroid fans - are often coming across as if they were pinning their hopes on this being 2D Metroid 5 for a console. And hugely disappointed that Samus Aran talks and stuff and acts like a much more complex character even if that conflicts with fan perceptions of what Metroid "should" be.
To me it's just a little like a Mario fan complaining about Paper Mario where all the characters have these personalities, ideas, histories, and dialog that they don't have in the "real games" and the fact that it doesn't play like a real Mario game. I realize continuity among the Metroid series is supposedly tighter (it is Nintendo, you know), but even so - I don't think that's an entirely inaccurate analogy.
But it isn't Metroid 5 or Prime IV. It was never advertised as anything but an alternate take on Metroid, a side game, and the fact that Team Ninja was developing it was emphasized because it was going to be different. Everything focused on the fact that it was more action oriented (and yes, there were indications it was linear) and story oriented. People had a year to get over the fact that Samus was going to be talking and the entire premise of the game was to expand Metroid from this perception of a minimal-story silent/lonely/oppressive exploration game to something else.
A lot of how you take something depends on your expectations going into it; you can be pleasantly surprised or bitterly disappointed depending entirely on those expectations when the product at hand remains exactly the same.
I'm having trouble reconciling that the people who seem as if they should have known better - the professed big time Metroid fans - are often coming across as if they were pinning their hopes on this being 2D Metroid 5 for a console. And hugely disappointed that Samus Aran talks and stuff and acts like a much more complex character even if that conflicts with fan perceptions of what Metroid "should" be.
To me it's just a little like a Mario fan complaining about Paper Mario where all the characters have these personalities, ideas, histories, and dialog that they don't have in the "real games" and the fact that it doesn't play like a real Mario game. I realize continuity among the Metroid series is supposedly tighter (it is Nintendo, you know), but even so - I don't think that's an entirely inaccurate analogy.
Cygnus X-1
Member
Gin said:
Again, and once for all, this game was NOT developed by Nintendo. It is was a collaboration between Team Ninja under the supervision of Sakamoto (which did not supervised as he should apparently).
gdt5016 said:
Yeah, I second that. I really liked reading that informations while playing the game. So addictive.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Morgan and Abbie continue to be two different people. But I guess someone with your values would think they're all the same.Choppasmith said:
donkey show
Member
Playing through hard mode really makes Other M into Metroid Gaiden... And I'm okay with it.
Segata Sanshiro said:
To be fair, if it was Morgan who read the review, it's hard to blame people for thinking it was her words. Lots of people think that Adam and Morgan write the reviews they say on X-Play.
That said, Abbie seems like a rational person, and she and Matt can at least back their positions up. I think it was her comment about not wanting "mature" titles on the 3DS because it felt weird to her, that it would somehow just be better on other systems was when I realized Morgan wasn't a rational person.
Choppasmith
Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
I never actually read the G4 review, only watched the review on Xplay, figured the G4 review was about the same, *shrug*. Not sure what you're insinuating at either.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Hello, I'm Segata Sanshiro, local joke character at the NeoGAFs. If you've inadvertently taken something I said seriously, then I apologize. I assure you, I am never serious about anything.Choppasmith said:
Except SEGA.
And BBQ pulled pork sandwiches.
And hockey. Don't fuck with me about the Canucks.
But everything else, joking. Promise.
Apparently Edge gave it 8/10.
The end sequence of the game
The end sequence of the game
(after credits) is absolutely amazing. Very challenging fights, boss cameo from Super Metroid (i wish it was Kraid instead of Phantoon) + escape from the bottle ship in zero suit - what else could they have possibly done?
Doogington
Member
Kaijima said:
I think you have it wrong. I knew what kind of game this was going to be. I was really anticipating the departure. I kind of liked the extra narrative in prime 3. I don't mind Samus talking. This game is just so poorly executed. Samus isn't portrayed as a complex character, she's portrayed as a bit of an idiot. Given all of what we have known about Samus thusfar, her character almost turns a 180.
But I could live with all that. What really bothers me about the story of this game has nothing to do with Samus.
Please tell me jarrod was banned and didn't actually die...?
[edit] ok no
"Style Savvy has an engaging and mature take on the fantasy job sim that should be enjoyed guilt-free. For the girlfriend or tween daughter or anyone that wants a fashion game that isn't patronizing to one's intelligence, Style Savvy comes highly recommended."
There's no conflict that I can see.
That's not to say that I think her review is perfectly reasonable. But she's not being a hypocrite.
[edit] ok no
Context.AniHawk said:
"Style Savvy has an engaging and mature take on the fantasy job sim that should be enjoyed guilt-free. For the girlfriend or tween daughter or anyone that wants a fashion game that isn't patronizing to one's intelligence, Style Savvy comes highly recommended."
There's no conflict that I can see.
That's not to say that I think her review is perfectly reasonable. But she's not being a hypocrite.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
robor said:
People are going to blame Team Ninja for every little thing they don't like about the game, just like people blame DIMPS because they don't like Abel's character design in Street Fighter IV. (Given that Capcom did the design work, and DIMPS the assembly.)
Everything that is wrong about Other M is mostly Team Ninja's work. They wrote the script and it is weak except the part about Galactic Federation conspiracy. Most of game design flaws seem to be straight out of Ninja Gaiden series. My problem with SPD1 is general lack of polish (it doesn't feel like a Nintendo game) and that they approved some of the stuff Team Ninja put into it.Kaijima said:
Cygnus X-1
Member
robor said:
On paper, yes. According to Sakamoto, roughly 100 people developed the game, coming from Team Ninja, Nintendo and D-Rockets. But people coming from Nintendo were Sakamoto himself...and developers who in last 10 years made Tomodachi Collection, Wario Ware and Rhythm Tengoku. I mean: I doubt that the entire staff of SPD 1 was involved in a Metroid game. They were indirectly just because Sakamoto co-created Metroid. It is common sense to suppose that the game was mostly developed by Team Ninja, with the cut-scenes made by D-Rockets, with the collaboration of some people of Nintendo SPD and Sakamoto.
According to Iwata ask, the terrible, TERRIBLE storyboard of the game was made by Kitaura of D-Rockets: a dude who NEVER had ANY experience in making videogames. He usually make TV commercials.
Kaijima said:
1. Expectations were created by the game series itself and what Nintendo/Sakamoto/Team Ninja had been saying. Things like:
If expectations were not met, if they failed at making a great action game and making a return to roots Metroid game and making a game with a great story then that is on them. Don't wahhhhhhhhhhh about it to people who hold them accountable for their own failings at their own claims.
It should be noted that according to the Iwata asks, they consider Metroid an action series. They list the NES game as an action game and consider Adventure something along the Zork and Sam & Max variety.
2. This does not make Samus a more complex character. It makes her a stereotype. That is part of the whole uproar.
3. Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi have had much less uproar because the characterizations are far more fitting. Other M's Samus feels like a different character or a Samus out of her proper place in the timeline.
4. Of course, you're right, if I went into Other M not expecting a Metroid game, not expecting a great game or a great story, not expecting a tough Team Ninja game or a top tier action game then yes, of course, I and many others would be much happier. If I just went in looking for decent, then Other M is right up my alley.
But people don't go to the Louvre to see highschool pottery.
robor
Member
Cygnus X-1 said:
Incorrect once again, some of the most prominent Metroid staff from the 2D games were involved, no doubt having a leading hand in the course designs etc. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/interview/r3oj/vol2/index.html
Cygnus X-1
Member
robor said:
English version?
Anyway, how many of them worked with Sakamoto on Super Metroid? I'm not sure we're talking about of more than 10 people.