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[ZealousD]

Sadly, yes, even though I honestly think that (even though NONE of the MP games deserves the be described as a "bastard child") Metroid Prime 3 better fits that bill.

I played through and loved Echoes back in 2004 without a single thought of the "complaints" that people have about the game. Yeah, I didn't prefer it over MP1, but that lack of preference didn't mean that the game was so much worse, either.

It's the difference between a 10/10 and a 9/10, seriously.

I think it's the difference between a 9.95 and a 9.90. =P

 

[ElFly]

People complain too much about Echoes. It had the best bosses, the best music and it's the hardest of the bunch. Yeah, it's kind of hard to navigate, but that's the fucking point. Stop, look at the map, and keep going. Come on, it's not that complicated. Put a little effort.

The only complaint I see as really valid is having too many key fetch quests. One per area is too much. Other than that, the game is awesome.

 

[Desiato]

Oh yeah, one thing that's always bothered me about the story: how did the metroid, that would eventually become Prime, get inside the Impact Crater? I thought the Chozo sealed it off? Or did they bring along a Metroid and forget it in there? Or was it inside the Leviathan that struck Tallon IV to begin with? If so, how???

 

[ElFly]

The thing that always bothers me, is the room in the space station at the start of Prime 1, where there are some rocks floating in the room.

Then you scan a switch, and it "begins the decompression process". Then the rocks fall into the ground.

Wtf. That's not how anything works.

 

[ZealousD]

Oh yeah, one thing that's always bothered me about the story: how did the metroid, that would eventually become Prime, get inside the Impact Crater? I thought the Chozo sealed it off? Or did they bring along a Metroid and forget it in there? Or was it inside the Leviathan that struck Tallon IV to begin with? If so, how???

I think we touched on that a few pages back. The series is never clear on this and in fact the whole story about Metroid Prime was actually altered. The original NTSC version says that the pirates discovered Metroid Prime in the impact crator and they experimented on it, which gave it its weapons. But that creates a plot hole because then that means they got inside the crater without the artifacts. So in the PAL/Trilogy version, the pirates never discovered Metroid Prime and had only learned that something was in the crater.

The thing that always bothers me, is the room in the space station at the start of Prime 1, where there are some rocks floating in the room.

Then you scan a switch, and it "begins the decompression process". Then the rocks fall into the ground.

Wtf. That's not how anything works.

I think it's just meant to imply that they pumped airlock full of air and turned on the gravity. =P

 

[[Nintex]]

I think we touched on that a few pages back. The series is never clear on this and in fact the whole story about Metroid Prime was actually altered. The original NTSC version says that the pirates discovered Metroid Prime in the impact crator and they experimented on it, which gave it its weapons. But that creates a plot hole because then that means they got inside the crater without the artifacts. So in the PAL/Trilogy version, the pirates never discovered Metroid Prime and had only learned that something was in the crater.

That creates an even bigger mess because how did a missile station and save station end up in the impact crater if the pirates didnt leave them there.

 

[ZealousD]

That creates an even bigger mess though because how did a missile station and save station end up in the impact crater if the pirates didnt leave them there.

Or for that matter, how did Metroid Prime get its weapons?

 

[ElFly]

I think the easiest explanation is:

-the pirates didn't have anything to do with the MP.

-the MP and some other Metroids (like the fission ones) were trapped inside the crater when the chozo put the artifacts.

-the behemoth(leviathan? don't really remember at this point) somehow fused/absorbed/mimed the metroids. Which makes sense, seeing how it imitates Samus afterwards.

I think it's just meant to imply that they pumped airlock full of air and turned on the gravity. =P

You aren't floating at that point.

 

[Desiato]

You know what, I'll just make up a shitty explanation myself: there happened to be a Metroid floating around where the Leviathan struck. Some of its DNA somehow survived and mutated with the Phazon.

As for the save/missile stations: NANOMACHINES.

 

[ElFly]

You know what, I'll just make up a shitty explanation myself: there happened to be a Metroid floating around where the Leviathan struck. Some of its DNA somehow survived and mutated with the Phazon.

As for the save/missile stations: NANOMACHINES.

Spoiler

The chozo created the metroids. It's only natural that they had some around.

As for the save/missile stations, isn't it supposed to be chozo technology anyway?

 

[[Nintex]]

Spoiler

The chozo created the metroids. It's only natural that they had some around.

As for the save/missile stations, isn't it supposed to be chozo technology anyway?

Could be but why would they build them in a Space Pirate base?

Spoiler

I'm thinking way too much about this shit

 

[BorkBork]

This sounds like an individual thing. Personally, I think the way they streamlined the overall layout of the game in Prime 2 helps me a lot. In Prime, sometimes you really have to plan your routes far in advance. For example, the first thing you want to do when you get the ice beam is go into the wrecked ship. Then you find out you're stuck and you need the gravity suit. Well crap, what's the fastest way to get to Phendrana Drifts, the area on the whole other side of the world? Which elevators do I take? There's like a billion different paths! I never felt like the world in Echoes was really much more complicated. Sure, you don't have anything like Magmoor where it's basically a single corridor, but every area was manageable I thought.

See, I never had to worry about any of that in Prime. The point I'm trying to make is, the world is interesting, diverse, and tight enough that I generally don't NEED the map after I've traversed it. I cannot say that in Echoes because it got too big with too many rooms that are generally unnecessary, especially with portal locations and the segmented portions of the hub.

I can't remember any specific areas like this, except for the sheer number of times you run into power bomb areas before you can eventually get it.

Between the spiderball and the power bomb there were a few sequences, after seeker missiles as well.

I can't think of any 10 minute puzzles. The most extreme is in the S shaped room in Sanctuary Fortress, and I think that's probably more like a 4-5 minute puzzle at the max.

I think I would also like to touch on another issue. Prime was very intuitive, Echoes is in a lot of cases not. Example: A lot of morph ball puzzles, ambitious as they are, are really frustrating, owing to awkward camera angles and asking for too much finesse for the morph ball concept. I actually think the 10 minute figure on some puzzles is a conservative estimate. Maybe you're just that good, or I was just that pissed after repeatedly failing.

I agree that being able to start the quest earlier in Prime is great. But some of the artifacts in Prime 1 are really out of the way. For example, you have to do the whole bottom portion of the Phazon Mines all over again to get that one artifact. And one thing that people don't mention is that you can't get all of the clues at once in the first game. That was a real annoyance for me the first time I played through the first game.

That was the one artifact out of the way, and by that time, a shortcut has been opened (after you get the Phazon suit), vastly cutting the time needed to get back to the tunnel to get the artifact. I picked up that artifact right away after the boss fight. Of course I had prior knowledge playing through the game again, but my strict run for artifacts took maybe 20 minutes.

I felt the color coded enemies in Prime were a weak point. The explanation is that they reverse engineered your beam weapons, but in fact they all fire the same power beam? I think it felt totally arbitrary.

I've honestly never even thought of that before. Good on ya for noticing that, but it has absolutely no impact on gameplay.

The dark visor is actually pretty useful for some enemies, most especially the phasing space pirates that pop up about halfway through the game. I actually like the dark visor better, because the red highlighting is better for exposing hidden objects and enemies. Plus, I think it's easier to see the game with it than with the x-ray visor.

:lol Oh the space pirates. The ones that will just teleport out after you ignore them for awhile. What kind of weird design choice was that?

I agree, but I don't play Metroid for the story.

Nope, but when they make a whole spiel about the sorry plight of the Luminoth complete with cutscenes, they better be interesting. They weren't.

And I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Even if you have small complaints about individual elements, like a single tough morphball puzzle or a boss, I think that saying that Echoes "sucks" or is on a completely different tier from the original is overreacting. The graphics were better. Art design was better. The overworld made more sense. Some of the best bossfights in the series (had some of the worst too, but the trilogy rectified that). Better enemy design. Scanning was improved. Expansions are easier to find. While I wouldn't go so far as to say Echoes was better than the first game, I just wish people didn't focus so much on the negatives. There's a lot to like about Echoes and I don't think it makes sense to sweat the small stuff.

I wrote these complaints exactly because I don't want anyone to think that I was nitpicking. The problems are systemic throughout the game because of specific design choices. They moved away from many of the elements that made Prime enjoyable, things beyond graphics, beyond sound. The game progressively got less and less FUN to play for me. That's as big as it gets.

People are trying to make sense of save stations in the context of the universe? :lol Knock it off!

 

[ZealousD]

You aren't floating at that point.

And yet the landing platform is out in space. Clearly, Samus's power suit has some sort of technology that lets her walk in anti-gravity conditions. Maybe the "space" jump boots?

 

[Desiato]

Spoiler

The chozo created the metroids. It's only natural that they had some around.

Yes I know, I wouldn't say the Metroid was on Tallon IV if they didn't.

 

[ElFly]

Could be but why would they build them in a Space Pirate base?

Spoiler

I'm thinking way too much about this shit

Maybe the technology is standard.

I mean, the heat visor is pure pirate technology for sure, but samus can integrate it in her (chozo)armor with no problems.

Or, it's just another clue about how

Spoiler

THE SPACE PIRATES ARE JUST EVIL CHOZO ZOMG

 

[ElFly]

And yet the landing platform is out in space. Clearly, Samus's power suit has some sort of technology that lets her walk in anti-gravity conditions. Maybe the "space" jump boots?

No, cause when you lose all your suit powerups at the end of that section, you still walk around with no problems.

 

[autobzooty]

Not that the Metroid story isn't worth discussing in-depth, but you guys need to learn where to suspend your disbelief. :lol

If it's that important to you, though, the troops on the GF ship in Metroid Prime 3 referred to the save station as a "recharge station" or something like that. Since everyone in the universe seems to have their own armored power suit (lol) it's only natural that standard munitions and repair stations would be built.

Although I would also argue that the beauty of Samus' Chozo suit is that it's highly adaptable and flexible. There are many Space Pirate log entries to scan in MP1 where they talk about how they're researching how Samus' suit could possibly be so good, and you even see them try to replicate your weapons later in the game.

Chalk it up to the Chozo being super-geniuses, I guess.

 

[ZealousD]

See, I never had to worry about any of that in Prime. The point I'm trying to make is, the world is interesting, diverse, and tight enough that I generally don't NEED the map after I've traversed it. I cannot say that in Echoes because it got too big with too many rooms that are generally unnecessary, especially with portal locations and the segmented portions of the hub.

Never felt that way myself. Everyone's different I guess.

I think I would also like to touch on another issue. Prime was very intuitive, Echoes is in a lot of cases not. Example: A lot of morph ball puzzles, ambitious as they are, are really frustrating, owing to awkward camera angles and asking for too much finesse for the morph ball concept. I actually think the 10 minute figure on some puzzles is a conservative estimate. Maybe you're just that good, or I was just that pissed after repeatedly failing.

Maybe having the spring ball has helped recently. The only really tricky morph ball puzzle is in that wide open room in Sanctuary Fortress where you are on the spinning gears and you have to time your bomb. There's actually a guide in plain sight though that tells you where to bomb, though, it's just you don't assume that is what it is. You'll see a point where you have 2 red rectangles that stick out and meet on the gear. Hit your bomb there, and you make the jump. It's like this on all 4 gears, so no coincidence here.

That was the one artifact out of the way, and by that time, a shortcut has been opened (after you get the Phazon suit), vastly cutting the time needed to get back to the tunnel to get the artifact. I picked up that artifact right away after the boss fight. Of course I had prior knowledge playing through the game again, but my strict run for artifacts took maybe 20 minutes.

My sky temple key run in Echoes was just over an hour and a half, but it wasn't dedicated. I took the time to pickup what items I had left and almost hit every room in the game. I finished at 100% at around the 13 hour mark. I don't think that run was so bad.

:lol Oh the space pirates. The ones that will just teleport out after you ignore them for awhile. What kind of weird design choice was that?

The same design choice behind the chozo ghosts?

The game progressively got less and less FUN to play for me. That's as big as it gets.

And for me, it's the opposite. Dark Aether got better. The environments got better. I guess the real issue here is that you didn't like Sanctuary Fortress.

 

[[Nintex]]

The Luminoth fought a 'war' against the Ing. The world didn't reflect that, it looked like no one ever set foot on Aether. The world was scrubbed clean. In Metroid Prime it actually felt like you were fighting against nature, the plants, the creatures, all horribly mutated by Phazon but it was still believable that they were part of the eco system. In Metroid Prime 2 there are these weird creatures that actively attack you with projectiles. The almost cartoon like Ing and Space Pirate designs that looked great on concept art but messed up in the actual game.

 

[BorkBork]

The same design choice behind the chozo ghosts?

They don't just warp away when you're in the middle of fighting them though. That's just bizarre.

And for me, it's the opposite. Dark Aether got better. The environments got better. I guess the real issue here is that you didn't like Sanctuary Fortress.

I didn't like it, but it definitely was not the clincher. It was a combination of factors that culminated in my disappointment, as I already alluded to.

 

[ElFly]

The Luminoth fought a 'war' against the Ing. The world didn't reflect that, it looked like no one ever set foot on Aether. The world was scrubbed clean. In Metroid Prime it actually felt like you were fighting against nature, the plants, the creatures, all horribly mutated by Phazon but it was still believable that they were part of the eco system. In Metroid Prime 2 there are these weird creatures that actively attack you with projectiles. The almost cartoon like Ing and Space Pirate designs that looked great on concept art but messed up in the actual game.

Dunno about that. There are dead luminoths scattered through the game (which is how you do the final key quest), and lots of places looked destroyed. The only places that had been spared where the central hub, and (partially) sanctuary fortress.

As for the enemies that shoot missiles, maybe they were war machines/animals the luminoth and the ing created.

 

[OMG Aero]

Oh yeah, one thing that's always bothered me about the story: how did the metroid, that would eventually become Prime, get inside the Impact Crater? I thought the Chozo sealed it off? Or did they bring along a Metroid and forget it in there? Or was it inside the Leviathan that struck Tallon IV to begin with? If so, how???

The two likely explanations are that either a Metroid found its way into the leviathan before the Chozo sealed it off (I don't think the Chozo sealed off the leviathan straight away) or that the Metroid was inside the leviathan when it came from Phaaze since there are already Metroids on Phaaze (This one of course is depending on how the Metroids got on Phaaze and when but that hasn't been answered).

The explanation for how Metroid Prime got its weapons is probably just random phazon mutation, since that is the logbook's explanation for the Fission Metroid's invulnerability to all but one of Samus' beams.

 

[ElFly]

I can see how you people could memorize Prime. Magmoor was just a straight corridor. Phendrana is pretty simple too until the pirate base. The chozo ruins is really the best area, mainly cause is the most complex one.

 

[kiryogi]

Still trying to get some desire to play Prime 3. As my friend puts it in reply to the sky town comments: "but is only one metroid area justifable for the whole game?"

As it stands, of the 3 despite having not finished 3 yet. Prime 2 is the best of the them IMO.

 

[Crescendo170]

It hurts me to see all this hate for Echoes. While I understand, though not necessearily agree with some of the complaints (Dark World slightly uninspired, easy to get lost etc) it's definitely my favourite of the Prime-games. Alot of it has to do with the fuckawesome bosses, the challenge and the mindblowing spider-ball puzzles, but above all that it's the atmosphere that gets me. Aether feels authentic,uninviting and alien in a way that Tallon IV does not, which makes the world so much more interesting to me. I even found myself really getting into the story(something I couldn't give less of a shit about in the original), religiously reading every GF-log and Luminoth-log I could find.

The extensive backtracking and the key-quest that some of you complain about was never a problem for me either. It's wierd since I concider myself a pretty impatient gamer, but Echoes does this thing where it makes me enjoy doing stuff that would no doubt annoy me in most games.(Like studying maps for minutes to find out where to go next or having to break out pen and paper to solve stuff etc) Instead it just adds to the experience and gives you that real sense of achievement when you advance or discover something new.

So yeah, it may not be everyones cup of tea but it's certainly not "shitty".

 

[lostinblue]

So yeah, it may not be everyones cup of tea but it's certainly not "shitty".

Yes, that position is reserved for Metroid Prime Hunters. (yes! S-H-I-T-T-Y)

 

[ZealousD]

Yes, that position is reserved for Metroid Prime Hunters. (yes! S-H-I-T-T-Y)

I'd give my opinion on Hunters, but it'd sound too much like something that would come out of the mouth of the AVGN.

 

[bob_arctor]

For what it's worth, I liked Echoes better than Prime if only because it really captured the creepiness and hostility of being on an alien world and it reminded me of Super Metroid in that regard. The Ing terrified me, especially in the beginning. And Dark Samus fascinated me the way the concept of "the evil twin" always has. And seeing the dead bodies at the start...yeah. Serious business.

 

[Apenheul]

I've just received my download ticket for the original Metroid, even though I registered the game four days after its release.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I've just received my download ticket for the original Metroid, even though I registered the game four days after its release.

Me too. Don't need it, so if anyone in the UK is looking for a copy of Metroid just PM me...

 

[Oxx]

Me three.

I thought I was going to miss out since I only registered the game on the Saturday.

I guess not many people bought the game.

 

[Monkeylord]

Awesome... got mine too

I guess not many people bought the game.

Just buying the game wasn't the only qualifier. You had to register it AND have already previously registered one of the Primes on the Cube, or Prime 3.

Chances are, most of the people buying Prime Trilogy haven't owned any of the MP games before, or registered them.

 

[Oxx]

I don't know. I think MPT is selling solely to the fans.

 

[Monkeylord]

I don't know. I think MPT is selling solely to the fans.

I dunno... I know a few people who picked it up but never did originally because they hated the controls.


Also, this is an NoE promotion, and as far as I'm aware the GameCube wasn't very popular here (I was the only person I knew in the area who had one) and I don't think MP3 sold too great over here either (citation needed).

 

[y2dvd]

I'm sure I did what someone already mentioned a few pages back and

Spoiler

rolled right into the spiderball ability before scanning it. AUGH, it was right after a pipe and poorly placed!

Looks like I just have to remember it in my 2nd playthru. -_-

 

[MoxManiac]

Me too. Don't need it, so if anyone in the UK is looking for a copy of Metroid just PM me...

What's this about? Download ticket for the original Metroid? Is this an EU only thing?

 

[Apenheul]

What's this about? Download ticket for the original Metroid? Is this an EU only thing?

I'm not sure whether it's EU only but Nintendo Europe ran a promotion where you could receive a free download ticket for Metroid (VC) if you're one of the first 5000 people to register Metroid Prime Trilogy on Wii (and you needed to have at least one of the three original versions registered).

 

[evilromero]

I enjoy playing through Prime 3 far more than either of the other two. Even with the new Wii controls (about done with Echoes). Prime 3 has way more environment variety, better pacing and just feels more novel throughout.

 

[MoxManiac]

I honestly thought Prime 3 was the worst one. Mainly due to the extreme linearity (these games should never hold your hand, if you never get lost or wonder what to do next, it isn't doing it's job as a metroid game) and Samus' shitty friends who thankfully you get to

Spoiler

murder

later on.

 

[OMG Aero]

I'm sure I did what someone already mentioned a few pages back and

Spoiler

rolled right into the spiderball ability before scanning it. AUGH, it was right after a pipe and poorly placed!

Looks like I just have to remember it in my 2nd playthru. -_-

You don't have to scan the items.

Oh and I got my Metroid download code too.

 

[dark10x]

Awesome... got mine too



Just buying the game wasn't the only qualifier. You had to register it AND have already previously registered one of the Primes on the Cube, or Prime 3.

Chances are, most of the people buying Prime Trilogy haven't owned any of the MP games before, or registered them.

Hmm...

You had to register all of them in the past, huh? I own all three of the original Prime titles and the Trilogy, but never registered them. Not that it really matters, but it's a bit disappointing.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'm part of the minority who think Corruption was significantly worst than the first two.

 

[Monkeylord]

Hmm...

You had to register all of them in the past, huh? I own all three of the original Prime titles and the Trilogy, but never registered them. Not that it really matters, but it's a bit disappointing.

Not all... at least one.

But at least you can be used in my example (way above somewhere) where I said that some people bought the previous games but may not have registered them. Thank you kindly, good sir

 

[Brandon F]

I'm part of the minority who think Corruption was significantly worst than the first two.

Minority?? Only the crazies would prefer MP3 to 1/2.

 

[Like the hat?]

so this is my first time playing through the series. Is there a reason to scan everything?

 

[upandaway]

so this is my first time playing through the series. Is there a reason to scan everything?

You get extras like art galleries, but outside of that, what you get is the scans themselves pretty much.

 

[wackojackosnose]

Minority?? Only the crazies would prefer MP3 to 1/2.

Hmm, I prefer 3 in the sense that it's way more pickup-and-playable than 1 or 2 but as a Metroid game 1 and 2 are superior to 3.

 

[Princess Skittles]

so this is my first time playing through the series. Is there a reason to scan everything?

Back story, details, etc. It adds to the experience but most of it is optional decorating.

 

[Oxx]

I'd probably rate Corruption above Echoes,

I learnt to love Echoes, but it's such a mixed-bag. It contains some of the best parts of the entire trilogy (boss-battles, Sanctuary Fortress etc) and some of the worst (ammo for beams, skulking between light beacons, key-collecting).

Corruption wasn't without its problems, but it was an incredibly enjoyable ride while it lasted.

 

[Conrad Link]

MP1 > MP3 > MP2 in that order for me personally, love them all though its no downer on any really.

Almost done with MP1 on Trilogy, hadn't played it so long, was anticipating Trilogy's release all year for it, does not disappoint... still one of the greatest games of all time.

<3 Samus.