Duckhuntdog
Member
shpankey said:
Apparently it does hold water with you. Made you double post. So there might be some validity to the pot, kettle, black.
MGS3 BOMB BOMB! (It's sad)
- Thread starter GDJustin
- Start date
Apparently it does hold water with you. Made you double post. So there might be some validity to the pot, kettle, black.
monkeyrun said:
IAWTP. was just thinking the same thing. Plus, no tv commercial, ad, or screenshots can even give a true glimpse to the depth of the experience. Granted, there are many games like that, but I feel that MGS3 take that to a new level.
GAwd I am an MGS3 whore, sorry..
Kanbee-san
Member
This is karma. Its good to see you all eating crow and coming to the harsh realization that the GAF japanese game lover attitude is not shared by the majority.
:lol :lol :lol
Seriously, cheer up guys. You know MGS3 is great fun, so who cares about sales ? right ?
:lol :lol :lol
Seriously, cheer up guys. You know MGS3 is great fun, so who cares about sales ? right ?
Kanbee-san
Member
Laurent said:
Hasnt it already sold enough in japan and the US to warrant a sequel ?
Kanbee-san said:
Well it hasn't gone on-sale in Japan yet (Dec 16th) and the US sales are awful compared to MGS2 first month sales...so yeah.
It'll be interesting if the Japanese sales are higher in the first week than the first 2 weeks of US sales. Over here in Japan the game is getting a lot of local hype from even the smaller game shops, though ToR being released on the same day might hurt it a bit.
Ar_ said:
Well, the camera situation isn't as simple as you make it out to be. If it were a behind-the-character camera, then it would be difficult to see things behind you and to your side, especially with the wide open spaces of MGS3, and the frequent action sequences.
I totally agree, and I pointed this out in the stickied thread. Stealth is undermined by this change to the formula. Both MGS1 and MGS2 penalized you far more severly for being discovered.
Well, it's both an action and stealth game, so it doesn't have to be the best in both to be considered great.
Would you rather have the game take itself too seriously? The comic book approach has been there since the first MG on the MSX. I'm not a big fan of it, but I don't mind it that much.
I have to disagree there. The End seems boring and easy at first, but then that becomes the challenge. Unless you feel like spending over an hour on the battle, you better come up with a good strategy. The Ghost (as you call him) is all about atmosphere, and a little bit of thinking.
This, especially on the 3 occasions where you have to reach a point undetected, kinds of counters the enemies' bullets being too weak. A long caution timer encourages you to be more stealthy.
Haha looks like Konami of America was quick to run some commercials about the reviews in MGS3!
I just saw a new one.
Said stuff like:
-5/5 Gamepro
-10/10 PSM
-"Snake is back!" :lol I thought that comment was funny that they mentioned this in the review! :lol
Hopefully more people catch on about the roxoring nature of MGS3!
I just saw a new one.
Said stuff like:
-5/5 Gamepro
-10/10 PSM
-"Snake is back!" :lol I thought that comment was funny that they mentioned this in the review! :lol
Hopefully more people catch on about the roxoring nature of MGS3!
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I have it, I love it up to the point I'm at, but the camera work is what turns a lot of people off, especially after playing Splinter Cell. Hell, the guy that got me into the MGS series perfers Splinter Cell now
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
Tabris said:
You mean like crawling underneath something so that the retarded guards forget you're there 60 seconds later? Or hiding in a cardboard box?
When I was talking to people about MGS3 before its release, nearly everone I talked to felt burnt by MGS2 and swore not to get MGS3... So I think the whole MGS2 story has scared them away, cuz they're expecting to get burnt by ridiculous plot points again.
I just hope I can wait till Xmas without getting anything spoiled for me
I just hope I can wait till Xmas without getting anything spoiled for me
Miburou said:
Even then, it imo would have been better than the current camera. Also, a limited sight of what is behind you might be considered a realism-enchancing improvement.
Or they could have put it behind the char and a little farther, like in many action games (Maximo?), offering a compromise between view around and in front of you; is not like the used camera shows that much around you anyway.
Or they could have used 2 camera perspectives switchable at the press of a button and both allowing movement, the current one for close stalth and behind-char one for all other times.
Maybe the camera they used was to provide an intended gameplay experience (meh).
Maybe it was to mask how often and much the engine suffers when has to draw a farther view.
Regardless, while I accepred this limited camera on MGS1 - it was a PS1 game after all, can't ask the moon from it - is getting annoying after 2 sequels and on more powerful hardware.
Good point.
Heh, I'd say it does take itself pretty seriously, with all the lectures, pretenses of drama, live video.
Which causes a stark contrast with the cheesy... everything.. mixed in.
Anyway I was mostly reacting and jesting at some of the "MGS IS THE BEST STORY EVER IS PURRRFECT" attitudes around here.
Maybe I suck, cause I spent far too much time with them.
The end takes forever, to first map the area, then get a hang of the AI, how to counter it, and finally chipping away its health.
Then I followed the codec suggestion of killing all animals in the area to get it by hunger, wich took I-don't-know-how-long, and when low he ended up managing to recover more than half stamina anyway, running out of my view and starting to say some weird line, before I could find and interrupt his regen.
He isn't "hard" as in dangerous or exciting, just a too long battle.
Not to mention his AI seems to be a hack. The moment he gets distance from you, he just teleports to the next sniping point. Had him run out of sight for a few seconds as I was chasing him, and next he is sniping me from the opposite side of the map. Whatever.
The Sorrow, I did that sequence at least 3 times.
I thought it would be lame for a game to give me two puzzles in a row requiring the same solution, so excluded it from the start.
Silly me, trying to avoid the istant death touch by swimming underwater, running backwards, looking for targets to snipe, waiting and killing everything, looking for movement paths, and so on...
For a good portion of the game, it just encourages crawling under something, moving a few feets from the spots where you were last sighted, dropping the joypad and going to eat a few pizzas.
Closer to the end, it encourages running to your destination, dropping the joypap, dying, and respawning in the last area you entered with the alarm turned off and your health restored to the level it was when you entered it.
Easyer and faster this way than fighting and evading your way with the poor camera.
Oh, I also forgot what a "nice" touch is that I ran in most boss battles with just half health left.
Again, it ultimately encouraged dropping joypad and going to eat something while waiting for health to regen - which I did before the final battle.
Now I need a diet, and blame MGS for it!
soundwave05
Member
A lot of franchises seem to fade around the third or fourth installment though ...
Resident Evil 3
Mortal Kombat 3
Super Street Fighter 2 (the third or fourth iteration of SF2)
Tomb Raider IV
etc.
There are some exceptions, like Super Mario Bros. 3 (although was Mario 2 really considered a sequel or more like a spin-off?).
Even GTA: San Andreas is cooling off a bit.
Resident Evil 3
Mortal Kombat 3
Super Street Fighter 2 (the third or fourth iteration of SF2)
Tomb Raider IV
etc.
There are some exceptions, like Super Mario Bros. 3 (although was Mario 2 really considered a sequel or more like a spin-off?).
Even GTA: San Andreas is cooling off a bit.
Unison said:Urrrm... MGS might have its camera setup because:
Suck my old school ass.
Because of a red X? ^^
The funny part is, MGS3 also reminded me the camera of the old bit games... and that they felt fore fun!
They showed a larger piece of battleground than MGS3 often does, and I don't remember being shoot from enemyes outside the screen in the little I played of the MSX version.
At times seemed I had on my hands a poorly thought 3d adaptation of a concept created to work well in 2d.
Late Stage Marxist
Member
You can say the camera sucks, the gameplay sucks, people hate the cut-scenes, etc. but I think it all comes down to the fact that games like GTA:SA and Halo 2 give you a lot more bang for the buck. You can finish MGS3 in a rental no problem. Unless you care about collecting camos and playing the Ape Escape minigame there's not much left to do afterwards.
I enjoyed MGS3 a lot the first time around because I'm somewhat a fan of the series, but if you hated the last 3 MGS games I don't think Snake Eater is going to make much of a difference. And even I haven't felt compelled to play the game a second time through.
I enjoyed MGS3 a lot the first time around because I'm somewhat a fan of the series, but if you hated the last 3 MGS games I don't think Snake Eater is going to make much of a difference. And even I haven't felt compelled to play the game a second time through.
soundwave05 said:
Most western players probably consider SMB3 the second in the series - don't think SMB2 was released outside Japan until after SMWorld, and it wasn't considered as good as the other games anyway, on top of being quite different.
Even so, counting SMW as the third game, it still had great success. My personal favorite, slighty above SMB3.
Duckhuntdog
Member
AniHawk said:
Vindication!!!!!!
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
It's part of the official Mario cannon and is considered a sequel. In the Western hemisphere it's considered the second game in the series and me thinks the Japanese consider it to be a side story. The opposite happens when you look at the real sequel to the game, known here in the US as "Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels." The Western audiance consider it to be an expansion to the original and the Japanese consider it to be the official sequel to the first.soundwave05 said:
Super Mario Bros 2 (called "Super Mario Bros. USA") was a result of American execs not thinking the official sequel was different enough from the first so they localized a Japanese game titled "Doki Doki Panic" and replaced the four main characters with SMB ones. Though this was a crazy turn for the series it is officially considered as part of the Mario universe.
Agent Dormer
Dirty Drinking Smoker
jedimike said:
Metal Gear fans that ditched for Splinter Cell are not Metal Gear fans. They're traitors.
Seriously, it's sad to see the GOTY sell so poorly.
Agent Dormer
Dirty Drinking Smoker
EekTheKat said:
They already announced MGS4. (They being Konami.)
MGS2: Huge ass advertising campaign and was the first super hyped PS2 release (GTA3 caught the gaming industry by storm with its huge sales that year).
MGS3: Not nearly as much advertising, coming out in a crowded holiday season.
Makes sense why it'd be underperforming. I think it'll right itself as the fiscal years continues, picking up steam along with Konami's advertising campaign and the generally great word of mouth behind it. It'll also help when people chill out on the GTA and Halo 2 obsessions only to realize that there's a game at least as good as both of them waiting to be played.
MGS3: Not nearly as much advertising, coming out in a crowded holiday season.
Makes sense why it'd be underperforming. I think it'll right itself as the fiscal years continues, picking up steam along with Konami's advertising campaign and the generally great word of mouth behind it. It'll also help when people chill out on the GTA and Halo 2 obsessions only to realize that there's a game at least as good as both of them waiting to be played.
Ar_ said:
I definitely think the camera needs to be improved for MGS4, I just don't think it's as easy as simply borrowing Splinter Cell's camera.
I don't think that's true. I've tracked his footprints (using the thermal goggles), and you can follow his complete tracks from one sniping point to the next.
Anyway, I was getting bored of the fight (and I couldn't find the sniper rifle, or I think I had it but didn't know), so I started using the mic to sniff him out, and then surprise him and shoot him in the back while he was escaping, and follow him using his footprints. It didn't take long after (and I was playing on hard).
I got stuck there, too, but then I asked Zero and he gave me hints. This is one of the things I really like about MGS. If you get stuck you can ask your team and they'll point you in the right direction. BTW, what other puzzle are you talking about? That was the first and last time I've ever used the fake death pill.
Honestly, I only ever needed to drop the controller and wait (studying for my final in my case) was when I was supposed to meet someone without triggering an alert. Otherwise I didn't have the patience for that, so I'd try to be extra careful not to be discovered, and when I was, I'd shoot my way to the next section. It might be easier to just hide for a while, but it's not faster, IMO.
Well, if you save and come back later, your health get replenished. The longer the time since you saved, the more your health gets replenished.
From someone that was VERY critical of MGS2,
MGS3 is fantastic. It deserves so much better; especially considering how well MGS2 did.
This IS sad, and I usually don't care how games perform. For one, KCET may feel the game was in some way a mistake - while in reality, they did a wonderful job. And secondly, more people should be playing this.
MGS3 is fantastic. It deserves so much better; especially considering how well MGS2 did.
This IS sad, and I usually don't care how games perform. For one, KCET may feel the game was in some way a mistake - while in reality, they did a wonderful job. And secondly, more people should be playing this.
The prison.
Use fork on your wound, and you find one
I know, you can choose to wait with the PS on or off. This way you won't get stuck, but still, waiting you are. Not much of an improvement imo
There's also an Alternative to waiting out alerts -
There's one or two instances that are exceptions to this rule, but generally you don't have to wait out alerts.
It's pretty funny to hear about complaints regarding health in this game, as people generally believe that Snake takes way too little damage in this game.
if you take out all the guards eventually the alert status goes away
There's one or two instances that are exceptions to this rule, but generally you don't have to wait out alerts.
It's pretty funny to hear about complaints regarding health in this game, as people generally believe that Snake takes way too little damage in this game.
Ar_ said:
I just called the frequency The Sorrow flashes to you in the torture scene to have the door magically get unlocked.
And yeah, the small touches are really something.
If you save in jail, and reload, Snake has a nightmare where you have to hunt down zombies in an urban setting.
For you guys that haven't played it, the cutscenes/codec aren't nearly as persuasive as past games once you get past the prologue mission (two hours into the game) where it was quite boring, excessive, and probably turned people away from the game. Bosses don't even give long speeches anymore for the most part.
Another improvement is even only counting gamplay the game is quite long. I think my second playthrough where I skipped every cutscene/codec possible was atleast as long as my first run through of SCT.
If you have camo on and are prone guards can't see you until you're quite close from what I've experienced. When you enter an area you usually have a good view to take out the scope and watch their routes for a bit as well, combine that with AP sensor/Motion Sensor and its not hard to know where guards are.
While the camera should be overhauled for the next game, due to level design and enemy placement I really didn't have that much trouble in MGS3 outdoors. Indoors
was a different story, as it was too easy to blindly run into a guard/scientist when running around corners and into new rooms.
Not for me. Even if you have ammo and health for it, I always find it quicker to just sneak up on guards and CQC them then get in a big fight. You can clear out large areas without being seen, wasting ammo, and get out quick if you try.
Agreed, although I like watching B-movies so I didn't mind. Plus, except for the prologue their isn't nearly as much cutscene interruptions in the meat of the game as the first two MGS games. Codec is now just for game help/instruction, bonus info, and nearly never used to further the story past the intro, which is a vast improvement over the shitty use in MGS2.
I couldn't disagree more, The End showcased everything right about MGS gameplay in its freedom. The length of the fight is completely based on how you want to play it, as a drawn out sniper battle, a nonstop chase with close up fighting, or
. The Sorrow was neat in its tracking of your deaths but the solution was obvious IMO. Another big improvement was the amount of bosses.
You realize you can still usually sneak past/takeout guards during caution without too much trouble right? Just watch for the three or four sweepers that stick together and take them out or avoid them. Its not like MGS2 where the areas are so confined, two or four guards make it impossible to sneak past. Waiting for it to run down is a waste of time, IMO.
Probably because people had low expectations after how MGS2 turned out. That and its a damn good game.
Sorry for selectively quoting and replying to your post Ar_, but I'm in a hurry and don't feel like writing something coherent and concise.
Another improvement is even only counting gamplay the game is quite long. I think my second playthrough where I skipped every cutscene/codec possible was atleast as long as my first run through of SC
T.Ar_ said:
If you have camo on and are prone guards can't see you until you're quite close from what I've experienced. When you enter an area you usually have a good view to take out the scope and watch their routes for a bit as well, combine that with AP sensor/Motion Sensor and its not hard to know where guards are.
While the camera should be overhauled for the next game, due to level design and enemy placement I really didn't have that much trouble in MGS3 outdoors. Indoors
actually only areas where you have a disguise on
Not for me. Even if you have ammo and health for it, I always find it quicker to just sneak up on guards and CQC them then get in a big fight. You can clear out large areas without being seen, wasting ammo, and get out quick if you try.
Agreed, although I like watching B-movies so I didn't mind. Plus, except for the prologue their isn't nearly as much cutscene interruptions in the meat of the game as the first two MGS games. Codec is now just for game help/instruction, bonus info, and nearly never used to further the story past the intro, which is a vast improvement over the shitty use in MGS2.
I couldn't disagree more, The End showcased everything right about MGS gameplay in its freedom. The length of the fight is completely based on how you want to play it, as a drawn out sniper battle, a nonstop chase with close up fighting, or
even no fight at all
You realize you can still usually sneak past/takeout guards during caution without too much trouble right? Just watch for the three or four sweepers that stick together and take them out or avoid them. Its not like MGS2 where the areas are so confined, two or four guards make it impossible to sneak past. Waiting for it to run down is a waste of time, IMO.
Probably because people had low expectations after how MGS2 turned out. That and its a damn good game.
Sorry for selectively quoting and replying to your post Ar_, but I'm in a hurry and don't feel like writing something coherent and concise.
Hellraizah
Member
Hep, count me in the "Splinter Cell converted".MoxManiac said:
I did the first 2 games, and I don't really feel the need to play the third part. I bought Twin Snakes when it came out, and I was instantly remembered of how poor the camera was for this type of game.
Seriously, those of you here stating that Splinter Cell has got a linear story needs to take a look at Metal Gear. It's as linear as Splinter Cell. Some said that the minute you get detected, it's game over in SC, well, I've been detected countless number of times and almost always got myself out of shit without dying. The guards AI are dumb in SC, but they are as dumb in Metal Gear. They forget about you like 1 minute after seeing you. I've seen a lot of places in previous Metal Gear where you could do things in a certain number of ways, as you can so almost everything as you like in SC.
I can understand people liking the 2 games, but stealth wise, Splinter Cell is as revolutionnary this generation as Metal Gear : Solid was last gen.
CrimsonSkies
Member
"MGS fanboys are complaining about mainstream gamers?"
I know ahah. Funny stuff.
I know ahah. Funny stuff.