MGS3 BOMB BOMB! (It's sad)
- Thread starter GDJustin
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Schmo Florez
Member
jedimike said:
Put me down as one of the converted. In terms of story MGS kills Splinter Cell, but for me the stealth is more engaging with Mr. Sam Fisher.
Tabris said:
Or it might actually be longer. You had the cajones to play through both games back to back.......do you have the cojones not to skip any codec or cutscenes and time the total for each game?
Again, none of the MGS fanboys are backing you up because they ALL know that MGS 2 has far more cutscenes/codec. :lol
From my experience, the ratio of gameplay to cut-scenes/code is the same in both MGS1 and MGS2. MGS2 is 50% longer, so total running time of its cut-scenes/codec is longer, too. The frequency is about the same in both games, so MGS2 ends up feeling like it has a higher cut-scene ratio.
JayFro said:
Yes, and I gave you an opinion on the review. Read OPM's review, and he clearly states that it's 70% gameplay and 30% cutscenes, I'm sure there are hours worth of cutscenes (it's an MGS game afterall, but there's more gameplay).
Now who to trust, OPM or a shoddily designed Playstation fansite with their overly convoluted reviews?
Well it happens to be a Playstation fansite so you would think said fanboy would tilt towards being quite friendly to a PS2 exclusive.................but who knows.
As far as it being 70/30, maybe it is but that isn't what you asked for. You asked for a review that gave it a 50/50 ratio. I gave you one, wasn't that the original point?
As far as it being 70/30, maybe it is but that isn't what you asked for. You asked for a review that gave it a 50/50 ratio. I gave you one, wasn't that the original point?
COCKLES said:
Squeeze out the inflammatory slant from the above and you still get an interesting question. Konami's given him free rein to do what he likes with Metal Gear and damn the cost. Sons of Liberty sold enough to make it look like a winning proposition, but if Snake Eater doesn't pay off big, one wonders what will happen to the amount of freedom given the KCEJ West crew.
DFS.
Mr_Furious
Member
As I said, I gave you the benefit of the doubt but 2k3 vs 2k4. It's possible that some smaller titles "shifted" past the holiday season but none are done and are sitting in warehouses awaiting strategic releases later. The reasons are more likely related to production schedules as opposed to the holiday buying season but companies are simply using that as the excuse for the delays. Companies love putting a spin on things like this. Also, the number of SKUs does not translate to game quality so I stand by my original post.jedimike quoting NPD Preview said:
COCKLES said:This news makes my heart swell!
YES!!!!!!!
Now perhaps Konami can get back to making real games instead of pandering to the extravagent whims of that hack Kojima and his pretentious, moviefest twaddle.
Heh.. have you even played MGS 3? Or are you just basing that on MGS 2? Most of the people who have played MGS 3 consider it to be a masterpiece, that includes people who hated MGS 2.
Kojima has created some of the best games ever, Snatcher, Policenauts, Metal Gear Solid to name a few, just because you didn't at all like the way one game went, doesn't mean Kojima's a hack, he's about as talented as the rest of the game developers. I'm not saying he is inhuman, and is god in the form of man, but saying he is a hack is beyond ridiculous. I know people who while, don't like his games, respect the work that he has done.
Also, with that post, you just proved your ridiculous attempt of fanboyism, go back to your Xbox please. BTW, I am a multi-console owner, and own/enjoy many games on each system, but with your post, you're better off joining those guys at TXB.
WarPig has a point though, if this game does sell below par (we haven't had exact numbers yet though, and there's alot of time for improvement), will Konami refrain from giving them too much freedom? I hope not, I hope they just learn how to fucking advertise, and let Kojima start a brand new series, which he hopes to do.
Kandinsky said:
Yes, casual gamers seem to have really enjoyed the original, which led to the hype on MGS 2, and as usual, many were somewhat underwhelmed with what they received in MGS 2. Now, after MGS 2, I don't think they're willing to give MGS 3 a chance. That's how it works however...
I think many factors may have lead to the franchise's steam loosing its popularity over the last 3 years.
If you look back you've got the Halo,GTA, and Splinter Cell frachises all eating away at Metal Gear Solid's foundation. Take in the backlash that Sons of liberty received from gamers,the fact that Twin Snakes bombed on a a console thats constantly being scorned by the media and general public,and you see where things start to go wrong with the franchise.
I still haven't seen Snake Eater's advertising to the extent that Halo and GTA have received over television either. When you see the other 2 heavyweights getting more air time it sorta gives off the impression that Metal Gear isn't as fresh and exciting as it use to be.
Plus theres been a million great games released this year. It may not sound like much but when the competition has increased the playing field it can effect overal sales of franchises that are known by name and may not be quite as fresh to the casual impulse game buying crowd. In short-Metal gear may not quite be as *IN* as it once was,next to newer competition that has hit the scene more recently. Its a shame but eventually it happens to most all well known entertainment franchises,whether it be movies,music,sports,or games.
Konami should step up and advertise alot more to keep the series name locked with peoples heads and not let the competition get a leg up over them.
If you look back you've got the Halo,GTA, and Splinter Cell frachises all eating away at Metal Gear Solid's foundation. Take in the backlash that Sons of liberty received from gamers,the fact that Twin Snakes bombed on a a console thats constantly being scorned by the media and general public,and you see where things start to go wrong with the franchise.
I still haven't seen Snake Eater's advertising to the extent that Halo and GTA have received over television either. When you see the other 2 heavyweights getting more air time it sorta gives off the impression that Metal Gear isn't as fresh and exciting as it use to be.
Plus theres been a million great games released this year. It may not sound like much but when the competition has increased the playing field it can effect overal sales of franchises that are known by name and may not be quite as fresh to the casual impulse game buying crowd. In short-Metal gear may not quite be as *IN* as it once was,next to newer competition that has hit the scene more recently. Its a shame but eventually it happens to most all well known entertainment franchises,whether it be movies,music,sports,or games.
Konami should step up and advertise alot more to keep the series name locked with peoples heads and not let the competition get a leg up over them.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
JayFro said:Well it happens to be a Playstation fansite so you would think said fanboy would tilt towards being quite friendly to a PS2 exclusive.................but who knows.
As far as it being 70/30, maybe it is but that isn't what you asked for. You asked for a review that gave it a 50/50 ratio. I gave you one, wasn't that the original point?
then that reviewer is wrong or he doesnt know how to count. fact of the matter is that both MGS1 and MGS2 had the same amount of cutscenes and codecs (although MGS2 was a longer game) and they were the same lenght. and unless you were really paying attention or had a stopwatch, you dont know what the hell you talking about.
and by the way, can we get some actual numbers befpre we decide whether the game bombed or not? we're supposed to go on the word of one guy who got a phone call from some dudes that told him MGS3 is below expectations? back it up with FACTS please.
Kojima does not get enough respect. Seriously.
People love to focus on the plot aspect of the MGS series, but he has challenged the conventions of games more than any other big time designer.
There are the surface improvements made to MGS 3, and there are many:
1. Camo Index and changing clothes
2. Concept of survival and feeding yourself
3. Close Quarters Combat
4. Performing Surgery or taking medicine
5. Stalking
These are all interesting improvements, but Kojima always takes it a step further. Everything figures into the larger gameplay at some point, or is a major part of the overall picture. For example, Camo index obviously helps you in hiding from the enemy, but it also
is important if the pain gets the hornet attractant on you. You have to change your clothes so as to not attract them.
Catching food lends itself to the "survival in the jungle" aspect, but also
is a major part of the endurance aspect of your battle with The End. When you are warned it will be a "grueling test of endurance" by Major Zero, he is not kidding. What other developer would have the balls to have an hour long boss battle? (at least, it took me that long).
The final 3 things I listed are all significant additions to the gameplay. They may figure in the way I described the first two but Iam not done with the game.
How about the survival viewer? If you spin snake in it for a while and return to the game, he will get sick and vomit. Kojima in an interview mentioned that he did this because you could only do something like that in a game. Just a joke? No, if you are poisoned you can do it to clear the food poisoning from your system.
Things like this make me wince when people say it is all movie and no game. It is very cinematic, yes, and the cutscenes and codec scenes are long, but there is so much more than that.
To me MGS3 seems overrated here.
Biggest problem is the camera view from above and too close.
Enemyes can see you from much far outside your screen view, forcing to costantly switch between to first perspective camera - in which you can't move, unless I missed something - and back. Problem is accentuated by the lack of radar.
This hoveread perspective also trivializes close range sneaking, showing enemyes behing solid objects that would realistically cover your view.
Stealth games need a first person or behind the char camera, showing far in front of you.
Another issue: Camera problems + your huge arsenal + Snake's ability to take more bullets than a tank = more effectove to play the game as a shooter, killing everything in your way, than by stealth.
And there are better shooters out there, if thats what you want to play.
And better stealth games as well, of course.
Cinemas are CHEEEEEESYY beyond words, as also the characters and story.
"Who fears a little thunder"?? Geee, I WONDER WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT!
Snake? Dense as a rock and childish. Ask Eva about him.
Cobra Team? You telling me that those freaks are the heroes who stopped a war?
Bee Boy? Out of all places, he picks a lake to face me? And then is he... dances... or what? That's what you get for eating bees I guess, stings on the brain.
Rocket Man? "You are runnning out of fury!". Sigh, not like the others have better lines.
The End? What's up with his eyes? Having him sleep 24/7 wasn't weird enough for Kojima's standards?
Poor boss battles. The End? Boring. The Ghost? 10 minutes of slow motion walk isn't fun.
Caution timer? I left the game playing with itself, went to the kitchen, had plenty snacks, and got overweight, waiting for it to run down.
On the plus side, Ocelot was for the most part cool. Mostly cause made me laugh.
Game has lots of polish and neat touches.
And I played it no stop to completion, regardless all my criticism.
But the hallelujas it receives here are a bit excessive.
Biggest problem is the camera view from above and too close.
Enemyes can see you from much far outside your screen view, forcing to costantly switch between to first perspective camera - in which you can't move, unless I missed something - and back. Problem is accentuated by the lack of radar.
This hoveread perspective also trivializes close range sneaking, showing enemyes behing solid objects that would realistically cover your view.
Stealth games need a first person or behind the char camera, showing far in front of you.
Another issue: Camera problems + your huge arsenal + Snake's ability to take more bullets than a tank = more effectove to play the game as a shooter, killing everything in your way, than by stealth.
And there are better shooters out there, if thats what you want to play.
And better stealth games as well, of course.
Cinemas are CHEEEEEESYY beyond words, as also the characters and story.
"Who fears a little thunder"?? Geee, I WONDER WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT!
Snake? Dense as a rock and childish. Ask Eva about him.
Cobra Team? You telling me that those freaks are the heroes who stopped a war?
Bee Boy? Out of all places, he picks a lake to face me? And then is he... dances... or what? That's what you get for eating bees I guess, stings on the brain.
Rocket Man? "You are runnning out of fury!". Sigh, not like the others have better lines.
The End? What's up with his eyes? Having him sleep 24/7 wasn't weird enough for Kojima's standards?
Poor boss battles. The End? Boring. The Ghost? 10 minutes of slow motion walk isn't fun.
Caution timer? I left the game playing with itself, went to the kitchen, had plenty snacks, and got overweight, waiting for it to run down.
On the plus side, Ocelot was for the most part cool. Mostly cause made me laugh.
Game has lots of polish and neat touches.
And I played it no stop to completion, regardless all my criticism.
But the hallelujas it receives here are a bit excessive.
Duckhuntdog
Member
Well, it couldn't have done as bad as Twin Snakes, so SK gets owned again.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Ar_ said:
the praise it receives is because the game IS that good. you trying to blow things out of proportion wont change that fact.
Duckhuntdog
Member
jedimike said:
Basically, what Mike is saying is, if it's on the Xbox >>>>>>> all others*
*except for platformers.
Duckhuntdog
Member
shpankey said:
Well isn't the pot calling the kettle black today huh?
Lakitu said:
That's fine.
But I'm referring to all the "IGN PICKED R&C OVER MGS FOR GOTM, LAAAAME", "GSPOT DIDN'T GIVE MGS 9.8, THEY SO STUPID", "MGS3 IS THE BEEEEST GAME EEEEVAR!" comments I happen to run into lately.
What I'm sayng is.. you love it? Allright. But it DOES have his flaws - or at very least I might call them "novel design choiches that will let down a considerable number of people interested in a stealth game", so might as well point them.
shpankey
not an idiot
Duckhuntdog said:
ohhh!!!! the typical retort... the pot, kettle, black argument. always looks good, even though it rarely ever holds water (as it doesn't with me). but i know it's always the first thing the fanboy has on his "retort list" as an argument.
and honestly, you're one to talk.
shpankey said:
I've never really been a fanboy, but how anyone can have major gripes about MGS3 is beyond me, especially if you have gone through the entire game/experience.
Sure, the camera isn't ideal for most, but it also adds some suspense and uneasiness, which I appreciate. I like the way you can move the camera and lock it in place by clicking R3 too. I don't know, MGS3 deserves a certain amount of respect. If one has negative opinions on it, that is fine. But there are also undeniably many groundbreaking and/or exquisite elements that this game pulls off, as noted many times here.
i hope konami doesn't interpret this as a repudiation of mgs3's style or theme. cos it's way better than the first two, and i'd like to see its ideas persist. but then i doubt kojima particularly cares what gamers want. in fact he seems to revel in showing gamers things they obviously won't want. bless him.