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[Mrbob]

Camera is about the only thing Splinter Cell has over the MGS series. MGS4 or whatever has to have an over the shoulder 3rd person camera.

I seriously worry if you play the SC games with their fantastic cliche story. At least in MGS the whole story is presented in a wonderful cinematic fashion. No matter how cheesy it is. And lets talk about the gameplay for a second. At least when I shoot in first person for MGS3 and aim for the head, I hit the enemy in the head. IN SC I gotta aim my pistol at the enemys foot to hit them in the head thanks to the awesome hit detection the game employs.

 

[Liono]

It probably needs more innovation. And the oversaturation of half-assed clones on the market sort of sucks all the fun out of it too.

co-op/multiplayer might be that thing that resparks interest in the genre again, but it's one helluva huge hurdle to clear and odds are it'll take them several games to truly get it "right".

Or maybe Kojima knew something else the rest of us didn't when he kept on trying to leave Metal Gear to someone else and move on to something new lol

If MGS3 doesn't save the stealth genre then it's done. The problem isn't with the game though as much as it is with the public-- people these days simply don't want to spend a lot of time lying down in the grass or watching cut-scenes, no matter how rewarding it is in the long run. It's all about instant gratification.

 

[Celicar]

I haven't played MGS3, but from the pics, it looked silly. You wear a crocodile hat? WTF?

 

[Docpan]

:lol

 

[Mrbob]

Well, I think the settings in the Metal Gear series may be damaging the franchise too.

The whole Raiden thing, I believe, is bigger than anyone realizes. That was a huge mistake on Konami's part to do. Also, for people who want to play as Solid Snake again, may look at MGS3 and see it takes place in 1964 and wonder what the heck is going on.

 

[EekTheKat]

It's all about instant gratification.

True,

which makes the trend to end games on

Spoiler

fucking cliffhangers

all the more amusing.

 

[thorns]

IN SC I gotta aim my pistol at the enemys foot to hit them in the head thanks to the awesome hit detection the game employs.

bullshit, you have an aiming spread with a pistol, since it's not 100% accurate, to make it more realistic. If you use the SC20K it is a much more accurate weapon and its spread gets smaller and smaller as you wait, and when it's smallest you have almost pinpoint accuracy. also you get a scope to boot.

 

[Mrbob]

It was a slight overexaggeration that the aiming reticle is off for Splinter Cell. Don't get mad at me, get mad at the developers because they openly admit in interviews that the aiming is off.

 

[lachesis]

Well, I haven't bought MGS3. It's kinda sad, because I was on the first line when MGS2 came out, and I was pretty let down by MGS2 in the end - to the point that I started feeling losing interest in whole "espionage" game genre. After having been a fan since MSX days, it's pretty sad.

It's good to hear, that MGS3 is really good from many posters here. I guess I'm becoming more "sheepish" day by day, but with my limited time for playing games, I just have to be really conservative on any purchases - and so far, I haven't even bought Halo2 nor GTA3 SA... but someday, definitely I'll get MGS3.

lachesis

 

[EekTheKat]

bullshit, you have an aiming spread with a pistol, since it's not 100% accurate, to make it more realistic. If you use the SC20K it is a much more accurate weapon and its spread gets smaller and smaller as you wait, and when it's smallest you have almost pinpoint accuracy. also you get a scope to boot.

The flaw in that is actually the "aiming spread". The player should be rewarded based on their own ability to aim.

There shouldn't be an artificial delay to aiming in addition to the time it takes for a player to aim.

And really the main reason why they use that mechanic is to deter the player from just running around shooting everybody.

 

[Barnimal]

Yet it has more stealth gameplay than every metal gear solid game combined..yeah thats generic. Its sad a game like MGS3 or MP2 isn't selling. Somethings not right.

whats not right is devs churning out fairly old gameplay every year. when thats the case, the newer IPs(halo/GTA)are definately gonna outsell the old ones. You think a new say, tomb raider would sell well even if it was a 10? i highly doubt it. I also hope prince of persia sells less than 100k copies combined on all 3 systems. that was the worst offender by far this year.

 

[Ramirez]

I seriously worry if you play the SC games with their fantastic cliche story.

I think thats the point,most people don't give a fuck about the story,they just want fun gameplay and the camera in MGS basically kills any fun you can have.

 

[sonycowboy]

Of course, there is the matter of what sales are disappointing to Konami.

They shipped 1.8 million copies into the US in 2001 (talk about front loaded sales).

They probably shipped upwards of a million for this launch and 600k for the month would be tremendously disappointing knowing that this is a much better game.

Well, we'll know in a few hours what November's numbers look like.

 

[Mrbob]

The flaw in that is actually the "aiming spread". The player should be rewarded based on their own ability to aim.

There shouldn't be an artificial delay to aiming in addition to the time it takes for a player to aim.

And really the main reason why they use that mechanic is to deter the player from just running around shooting everybody.

Yeah but this method seems to be employed over the top. There were countless times in SC, when I would hide in the shadows, crouch, and then aim at an enemies head and let the reticle set in. I would fire and the bullet would whizz by alerting the guard in my direction. Very annoying.

I think thats the point,most people don't give a fuck about the story,they just want fun gameplay and the camera in MGS basically kills any fun you can have.

No it doesn't. For all the talk about taking it slow in SC, why are you trying to run in MGS3? That's the only way you are going to get caught by guards on a consistent basis. You need to take it slow in that game too. Use your directional Microphone, first person mode, or motion sensor. They all work and help detect enemies in your vicinity. I agree the camera should be over the shoulder in 3rd person. However, once you get used to it and the fact you can move the camera slighlty and lock it in (Use the R stick to move it and click it in to lock it in) the game is more than manageable.

 

[sonycowboy]

I think thats the point,most people don't give a fuck about the story,they just want fun gameplay and the camera in MGS basically kills any fun you can have.

It's amazing that the two of you can make these ridiculous comments in the face of 100's of other posters who extoll MGS3's greatness. I can certainly understand someone not liking it. No game will be universally loved, but you two (including thorn) are just pathetic.

 

[DarienA]

I think thats the point,most people don't give a fuck about the story,they just want fun gameplay and the camera in MGS basically kills any fun you can have.

This is just as bad as the gamn GT/any other racer threads.

SC's focus is on more real life scenarios, MGS focus is on more over the top characters and stories.

Both meet somewhere in the middle in terms of their approaches/takes on gameplay.

Die stupid thread Die!

 

[jarrod]

o if Konami's expecting 6 million worldwide... how did the other Metal Gears sell ww? I'm guessing MGS1+Integral+VR sold 6M, MGS2+Substance sold 6M and the remaining 2M being split between MG, MG2, Snake's Revenge, TTS & Ghost Babel?

 

[Gorey]

Really I think at one point they can just ditch the single player Splinter Cell game completely and just focus on the multi player and no one would care at all.

I definately care. This trend drives me nuts, actually. I realize online gaming is the big thing, but there are plenty of us who don't give a hoot, and greatly value a solid single player game. And honestly, I like both series.

Only reason I haven't picked up MGS3 yet is because there are just too many damn games to play right now. MGS2 really pissed me off, so MGS3 gets put at the top of the 'after christmas' line. Sorry, konami, I still love you.

 

[Flynn]

Crap, I hate the average American game buyer! :lol

More like, crap I hate the unimaginative video game executive who thinks that Chrismas is the end-all-be-all of retail.

 

[Ramirez]

It's amazing that the two of you can make these ridiculous comments in the face of 100's of other posters who extoll MGS3's greatness. I can certainly understand someone not liking it. No game will be universally loved, but you two (including thorn) are just pathetic.

I'm hurt,no really!

STFU,I said I bought the game,I bought TTS as well,I liked it...but to say you guys can't see why the average joe might not give a damn about these titles is crazy.

 

[Future]

Not surprising. Original MGS was hyped beyond belief, MGS2 had similar hype because it was the first sequel on a next gen platform, MGS3.....nothing. Even hardcore gamers at forums weren't talking about it until it was actually released..and if thats the case you can be damn sure most of the public barely knows it exists. Advertising-wise all I still see is Halo and GTA:SA.

Nothing to do with the stealth genre dying (stealth in MGS3 isn't even as necessary as it was in the past) or the series getting stale IMO. Should have released this sucker in July/August and hoped by the the holiday season word got around that it was pretty damn good

 

[Tabris]

The average joe also didn't care for ICO.

Infact, now that I think about it, MGS3 is one of those games that should be placed on the same kind of level as ICO. It just raises the bar for video games in general.

 

[jedimike]

More like, crap I hate the unimaginative video game executive who thinks that Chrismas is the end-all-be-all of retail.

Come on now... publishers have smartened up and there were many titles that got pushed to next year simply for this reason. There are less releases this November then there were last November. MP2 and MGS3 were certainly big enough releases that they shouldn't have gotten run over. Halo 2 and GTA are only 2 games.

If anything, I think the extensive library of great budget games cut into sales more than the release of Halo 2 and GTA: SA.

 

[Solid]

OMGWTF! DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING!

More bombs to come.

 

[JayFro]

Casuals don't want to sit through long cut scenes and codec sequences. Many many casuals got burned by the long cut scenes in MGS2 so we'll have to see how MGS3 performs sales wise. They don't care about the story, they just want to play the damn game!


I still have MGS 2 for XBox and I encouraged two friends to play through the game. Both of them did the exact same thing skipping most of the cutscenes and codec sequences! One of them really enjoyed the PS1 game so I was quite surprised he was skipping cutscenes and codec and just didn't show much interest overall the whole story. The other had never played the series before and was quite bored with the game. Neither of them even came close to finishing it, lack of interest I guess.

So I can certainly see how there would be a lack of interest from casuals for a 3rd installment. Hell, the second game turned off many hardcore internet geeks like myself so I can't imagine casuals giving it another try.

 

[DarienA]

Casuals don't want to sit through long cut scenes and codec sequences. Many many casuals got burned by the long cut scenes in MGS2 so we'll have to see how MGS3 performs sales wise. They don't care about the story, they just want to play the damn game!

The cut scenes were short in the first title? I must have a f*cked memory....

 

[Tabris]

The cut scenes were short in the first title? I must have a f*cked memory....

The cutscene length was the exact same. The codec length was the exact same (minus the Rose save speeches). If you turned off your console after saving, you wouldn't even have to deal with the Rose save speeches.

 

[JayFro]

The cut scenes were short in the first title? I must have a f*cked memory....

They sure were shorter, so yes........memory must be fading.

 

[JayFro]

The cutscene length was the exact same. The codec length was the exact same (minus the Rose save speeches). If you turned off your console after saving, you wouldn't even have to deal with the Rose save speeches.

Did you time them or what? The one at the end alone was like 30 minutes long!

 

[Sanjuro]

Yea it was kind of the mainstream drop the series took in MGS2. The first one had a cult following at first. I remember the old NES game and for years in EGM / Gamepro I remember looking at all the screenshots and could not WAIT for the damn game to come out. I would bring the magazine into school and people who didn't know of the franchise became intrested. For the PS1 it was such an amazing game. It just spread the word alot quciker as one of the best games for any system should.

As MGS2 came around the hype was too much. I could take some cheap shots here at MGS2 but I wont. I just didn't like the game very much. But I respected what Hideo tried to do. Where as that level of respect still kept me intrested in the series for the next installment to come out, that would kill any hype for casual gamers or people just getting into the franchise for the first time (Also people thinking the game is all gameplay not expecting an actual story).

BTW...MGS3 = Greatness.

 

[Mr_Furious]

some possible reasons:

* lost fans to splinter cell series
* turned off some fans with MGS2
* diluted the series' appeal with MGS:TTS
* perception that it is coming to XBOX rampant, so "why buy now when MGS3:Substance coming later?"
* ill-advised ps2 exclusivity deal when xbox is hot
* advertising? whats that?

* November was packed with more triple A titles than any other month this whole generation (IMO).

Come on now... publishers have smartened up and there were many titles that got pushed to next year simply for this reason. There are less releases this November then there were last November. MP2 and MGS3 were certainly big enough releases that they shouldn't have gotten run over. Halo 2 and GTA are only 2 games.

I don't believe this for a second. It's not as though companies are sitting on finished product deciding to release after the holiday rush. Not sure if you can back up the November 2k3 vs 2k4 releases with actual numbers but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe last year saw more releases total BUT this year saw more triple A titles released in one month than any other month this entire generation. Titles like:

1. WoW
2. HL2
3. MP2
4. MGS3
5. PoP2
6. Pirates
7. VJ2
8. Vampire Bloodlines
9. NFS:U2
10. MOH: PA
11. Jak 3
12. Mario Tennis
13. EQ2
14. Halo 2
15. Nintendo DS and various launch titles

Now regardless if you personally consider some of these titles to be less than triple A, they're considered so by the gaming media as a whole. This just proves that the industry has NOT learned a goddamn thing and many of the games listed above will be subject to under perform as a result of it.

 

[Tabris]

I think you people need to replay MGS1.

The cutscenes were just as long.

 

[Chi-Town]

IF MGS3 doesn't do well in November the most likely explanation is because Konami didn't bother to start advertising it til early December. I expect December numbers will probably be very solid.

And stop blaming Halo 2. I don't see how an Xbox exclusive game is going to keep the sizable PS2 ownership from buying a game.

 

[JayFro]

I think you people need to replay MGS1.

The cutscenes were just as long.

So are you going to back up that original claim with some actual numbers? You said they were just as long but it simply isn't true. MGS 2 had much more codec and longer cutscenes, but until we get some actual numbers.......

 

[Sanjuro]

"1. WoW
2. HL2
3. MP2
4. MGS3
5. PoP2
6. Pirates
7. VJ2
8. Vampire Bloodlines
9. NFS:U2
10. MOH: PA
11. Jak 3
12. Mario Tennis
13. EQ2
14. Halo 2
15. Nintendo DS and various launch titles"

Even there, there are many missing. One quick one Goldeneye, which reviews aren't great but casual gamers will pick up. It sucks because all those months early this year with nothing to do, not I have to plan to beat games around Halo 2 mutliplayer? MP2 i want to play the most, but seeing how its close to as long as the first one I have to put that off and beat the shorter games first.

 

[JayFro]

IF MGS3 doesn't do well in November the most likely explanation is because Konami didn't bother to start advertising it til early December. I expect December numbers will probably be very solid.

And stop blaming Halo 2. I don't see how an Xbox exclusive game is going to keep the sizable PS2 ownership from buying a game.

Exactly what I was thinking, how is Halo 2 going to affect MGS 3 sales? Damage control at it's finest.

 

[Tabris]

So are you going to back up that original claim with some actual numbers? You said they were just as long but it simply isn't true. MGS 2 had much more codec and longer cutscenes, but until we get some actual numbers.......

Actually, you were the one that made the original claim they were longer. You have the burden of proving me wrong.

 

[Mzo]

I agree with the general public being turned off by MGS2 + the near lack of commercials, advertising, or hype.

The hype for Halo 2 completely eclipsed MGS3. I hear the game is great, though, but I'm one of the many that didn't care and never got it.

 

[Mzo]

Actually, you were the one that made the original claim they were longer. You have the burden of proving me wrong.

MGS2 has more and longer cutscenes/CODEC conversations than the original MGS did.

 

[Unison]

Of these, I bought:

1. WoW
2. HL2
4. MGS3
6. Pirates
12. Mario Tennis
14. Halo 2
15. Nintendo DS and various launch titles (FTM, M64DS, Warioware import, Mr. Driller import)

+ Final Fantasy I & II, KOTOR 2, Kingdom Hearts:COH, Mario Party 6, Baten Kaitos, Technic Beat.


It's official... no more games until Resident Evil 4 (except Zoo Keeper, of course, if it's $30 or less )

 

[JayFro]

Actually, you were the one that made the original claim they were longer. You have the burden of proving me wrong.

And you said they are the same length. The fact that the last cutscene in MGS 2 alone is 30 minutes should pretty much tilt it that way. Seeing as how the rest of the game was filled with tons of codec and long cutscenes as well you must be out of your mind to think the original on PS1 had as much codec and cutscenes. It simply isn't true, but you can pretend it was.

Most reviews also say that half of MGS 3 will be spent watching instead of playing the actual game. If Kojima didn't kill the casuals last time he certainly got them this time.

 

[Tenguman]

Konami has really dropped the ball with MGS franchise (they did this with MGS:TT too). Barely any interesting ads, played sparingly. I figured they didn't have a MGS:TT commercial to save money for an ad blitz of MGS3 stuff...but apparently not.

Though, I have a feeling that MGS2 hurt the franchise the most. Many people gave up on the series after that game.

 

[Lakitu]

Most reviews also say that half of MGS 3 will be spent watching instead of playing the actual game. If Kojima didn't kill the casuals last time he certainly got them this time.

Huh? No reviews say that, which were you reading? The ratio is 70 : 30 (cutscenes/radio being the latter)

 

[shantyman]

Are most fanboys fanboys because they are too poor to afford all of the consoles or something?

This quote is both hilarious and also perhaps the truest thing ever said.

 

[Gilatif]

"Casual" gamers are idiots because they want to actually PLAY games instead of sleeping through 5 minute cinemas that rival B movies?

 

[WarPig]

Huh? No reviews say that, which were you reading? The ratio is 70 : 30 (cutscenes/radio being the latter)

Yeh. It's not exactly evenly balanced through the game, though, which probably lends itself to people's confusion. The first and last acts are both really heavy on the yacking, but it shuts up pretty nicely in the middle.

DFS.

 

[rawk]

Hell, I only have a Cube, and I feel the game release overload this fall. Any other time of the year and Mario Tennis and/or Viewtiful Joe 2 AT LEAST would already be mine. But with Prime 2, the DS, and a few other games, I'm set for a while. My backlog of games that have come out since this summer will last me through Christmas. I can only imagine what it would be like if I had a Ps2 and Xbox as well.

 

[Tabris]

And you said they are the same length. The fact that the last cutscene in MGS 2 alone is 30 minutes should pretty much tilt it that way. Seeing as how the rest of the game was filled with tons of codec and long cutscenes as well you must be out of your mind to think the original on PS1 had as much codec and cutscenes. It simply isn't true, but you can pretend it was.

When was the last time you played MGS1?

I played it about 9 months ago. Beating both it, then MGS2 directly after.

The cutscene length all together is around the same. Codec conversation length is around the same, minus the Rose conversations (which aren't forced in anyway, same way you're not forced to listen to Para-Medic's movie rantings or Mei-Ling's quotes.)

 

[JayFro]

Huh? No reviews say that, which were you reading? The ratio is 70 : 30 (cutscenes/radio being the latter)

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=448991

"About half of Snake Eater’s length is spent watching cutscenes."

 

[JayFro]

When was the last time you played MGS1?

I played it about 9 months ago. Beating both it, then MGS2 directly after.

The cutscene length all together is around the same. Codec conversation length is around the same, minus the Rose conversations (which aren't forced in anyway, same way you're not forced to listen to Para-Medic's movie rantings or Mei-Ling's quotes.)

So to get the same length you are CUTTING out some of the material? Are you listening to yourself? I didn't skip a single codec or cutscene in either game and MGS 2 by far has more boring conversation than MGS 1 ever could have. Get out of MGS fanboy mode for a minute and notice that nobody else on these boards is backing up the claim you are making. Not even any other of the MGS fanboys in this thread.