MGS3 BOMB BOMB! (It's sad)

dark10x said:
Sadly, I knew a lot of people who purchased MGS2 and Prime 1...and out of those people, I am the ONLY one who purchased both. It seems that this sort of situation is occuring all over...
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Same situation here, though I myself had waning interest in MGS3 up until about a week before it released when the GAF hypetrain steamrolled me a new one (the awesome TGS trailer I witnessed merely days before launch solidified the purchase). I am still only saved at the beginning of Operation Snake Eater, without experiencing a single boss encounter yet, but my motivation to set aside serious time with keeps rising with all of the positive reinforcement continually expressed here. I REALLY appreciate the continued use of spoiler tags in the 25+ page sticky thread.
 
DarienA said:
How can you trip yourself up in the same post? Hasn't bitching about a game you've never played gotten old?
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I have played MGS2 , and from what i've been hearing it's more of the same, with less codec conversations.
 
I think I will wait for some solid news on the sales before commenting,

Ive been owned enough of late with Halo 2 selling 5m units :\
 
Liono said:
Who gives a shit about splinter cell, this is a thread about the sales of MGS3.
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because the success of SC inevitably has an effect on MGS... of course, I think bomb is a bit harsh. MP2 is a bomb, Snake Eater is just less of a success.

darien... love the avatar. More cowbell.
 
thorns said:
I have played MGS2 , and from what i've been hearing it's more of the same, with less codec conversations.
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Let's see... no radar, enhanced close combat system, food intake system, camo system, more of a focus on external areas...

Yup definitely more of the same.


JM: The cowbell skit is the shit man. ;)
 
thorns said:
I have played MGS2 , and from what i've been hearing it's more of the same, with less codec conversations.
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Cut the bullshit. Admit it, you don't know a goddamn thing about MGS3.
 
Scrow said:
IAWTP

heh, chances of that happening == 0, but damn i wish it would because it'd save me buying a PS2.
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Refering to Xbox port of MGS3, it is not 0, MGS2 was ported to XBox.
 
I know what I've read through reviews. The reviews I read mentioned it plays and controls similar to MGS2. So I have no interest in spending $50 for the game. There are lot of other games that I want to buy rather than MGS3. I guess that must be hard to comprehend.
 
thorns said:
I haven't played MGS3, and don't plan to since MGS2 absolutely sucked, but I don't understand all the bashing Splinter Cell gets. It's a great game with actual GAMEPLAY. I don't play videogames for the cutscenes.
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No, Splinter Cell is linear as hell and based entirely on trial and error. To me, it felt as if I was simply doing what the developer intended me to do and nothing more. Watching Splinter Cell and playing Splinter Cell are almost one in the same. The multiplayer mode of PT was excellent, but the single player campaigns in both games suffer from those flaws. The rigid trial and error "gameplay" just isn't any fun...

However, MGS3 has a WHOLE LOT of gameplay contained within and it is open ended...
 
The reason why MGS is a superior series is it's a stealth game that when you're caught, it's not game over, you have to deal with the consequences of being caught and try to figure a way out of it.
 
Tabris said:
The reason why MGS is a superior series is it's a stealth game that when you're caught, it's not game over, you have to deal with the consequences of being caught and try to figure a way out of it.
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Ah yes, that's another good point and one of the reasons WHY the game is based so heavily on trial and error. Regardless of whether it literally mission over or not (and it often is), getting caught in SC is a cue to restart. You are left with no freedom and are forced to deal with most situations in a VERY specific fashion. Any deviation is generally born from your tool of choice, but the results are all very much the same and often you don't even have the opportunity to choose anything at all.

Another problem with all of this is that the AI is piss poor.
 
Midas said:
Haha, the guys at that forum... You cant express it in words.
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That's why they made this:
bang.gif
 
jedimike said:
You also have to take into account the number of MGS fans that ditched it in favor of Splinter Cell. Maybe not a huge number, but the little things can add up.
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I don't think that gamers interested in Splinter Cell (and those who became SC fans) will stick only with this game. If you like shooters, and Half-Life 2 is released while you were considering yourself a Doom fan, and you just finished Doom 3... You are going to buy it anyway! Splinter Cell Pandora's Tomorrow is 8th months old!

Konami USA have a shitty marketing strategy, and I never understood why. They should consider what Capcom has been doing with Viewtiful Joe or Devil May Cry, but they don't seems to see themselves has being in direct competition with them...

Superior game, ANY GAME, will sold out in the long run... Mouth to ear will prevail concerning this game, I am sure of it...
 
Hell, I bought this, GTA:SA, and Halo 2. I know this is a great game, maybe a January release was needed though
 
Yet it has more stealth gameplay than every metal gear solid game combined
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Outside of the camera positioning I can't think of one thing that SC has *more* of than Metal Gear. In fact most Metal Gear haters immediately cite the Camera as the number 1 reason why they can't stand the game.


I still maintain that they're completely different genres now. One is a pure sneaking game and the other is an interactive action movie.

MGS3 turns the series into a action hero simulator pretty much, where you're largely free to choose how you want to proceed with the mission so long as you're able to get things done and deal with the consequences. It's truly tactical espionage action now, and not "just" a pure sneaker or so as the title put it.

With Splinter Cell however I can't shake that feeling that you're being lead along on a VERY tight leash. While you're still given *some* freedom to elbow a guy in the face repeatedly at the end of the day you're still put on a largely confined path.

The single player game so far has been largely the same with some very minor improvements (and to some extent, SC:PT introduced a play mechanic that effectively broke the single player experience). Really I think at one point they can just ditch the single player Splinter Cell game completely and just focus on the multi player and no one would care at all.

At this point I couldn't care less about what happens in SC:CT story (beat the game, save the world, good job!), I just want to see how they've cleaned up the multi-player game, and how they've implemented coop. whereas MG was pretty much the exact opposite, where I'm motivated to play to because I absolutely have to see what happens next.
 
dark10x said:
Ah yes, that's another good point and one of the reasons WHY the game is based so heavily on trial and error. Regardless of whether it literally mission over or not (and it often is), getting caught in SC is a cue to restart. You are left with no freedom and are forced to deal with most situations in a VERY specific fashion. Any deviation is generally born from your tool of choice, but the results are all very much the same and often you don't even have the opportunity to choose anything at all.

Another problem with all of this is that the AI is piss poor.
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Well almost all video games are based on trial and error. You could also say Halo is based on trial and error and very linear, but it doesn't stop it from being a great game. I have found that you can usually approach a situation in SC in many different ways even though the game is very linear. For example in the chinese embassy sewers where you meet three guards patrolling the sewers, one solution is to put a sticky shocker into water, when all the guards on the water to shock them all at the same time. Or you can simply trail them and pick them off one by one, throwing objects around, shooting out lights etc. Or you can just wait until the right opportunity and pass the area without touching anybody at all.

What do you mean the mission is over when you get caught? You never get caught in SC, either you're dead or the mission is aborted by the headquarters.
 
I'm not surprised. If you read any previous threads where I have posted on this matter I mentioned I figured MGS3 would start off slow in sales but build from there. Here are the reasons why:

1) Many gamers felt spurned by MGS2. Make no mistake about it. I was like Brandon, I had no interest in MGS3 whatsoever until a couple days before it came out because I felt burnt by MGS2. I know I'm no the only one.

2) There are a ton of releases this month. Too many games coming out only so much money to go around

3) Konami of America advertising has been horrible for the game until lately. I'd like to see how Rumble Roses sold in November, because that stupid commercial was pushed in our faces everywhere. They advertised Rumble Roses at the expense of MGS3 in November and may have been burnt for it.

It'll be interesting to see exactly what MGS3 sold in November. However I expect this to be how Splinter Cell sold a couple years ago where it sold OK in November (223K) and then exploded in December (Over 600K). With all the competition I don't know if it will explode as well but with all the good buzz the game sales should be steadier ove a longer period of time than MGS2.
 
Eh, I'm holding off on buying MSG3 for a while. The MGS games have some fun moments, but the storylines are so bad that they become embarrassing to play even while alone. Hell, I wanted to kick my own ass while playing MSG2. I hate the comic book villan monolgues and the nonsensical "heavy" monologues, where I'm apparently supposed to learn something about life from a guy who spends his days doing naked cartwheels. I dunno, it just feels so........DBZ.
 
jett said:
Cut the bullshit. Admit it, you don't know a goddamn thing about MGS3.
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I suspect that thorns' dislike for MG3 has something to do with being exclusive for PS2... but that's just me.
 
thorns said:
I know what I've read through reviews. The reviews I read mentioned it plays and controls similar to MGS2. So I have no interest in spending $50 for the game. There are lot of other games that I want to buy rather than MGS3. I guess that must be hard to comprehend.
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Translation you don't know what the hell you're talking.

Of course it's controls similar to MGS2... sequels usually reuse the control system.

Of course it play similar to MGS2... sequels often use the same play systems.

I don't care whether people do or do not like I came. It's simply annoying when someone starts spouting off about a title that they have not a clue about... which in this case = you.
 
thorns said:
Well almost all video games are based on trial and error. You could also say Halo is based on trial and error and very linear, but it doesn't stop it from being a great game. I have found that you can usually approach a situation in SC in many different ways even though the game is very linear. For example in the chinese embassy sewers where you meet three guards patrolling the sewers, one solution is to put a sticky shocker into water, when all the guards on the water to shock them all at the same time. Or you can simply trail them and pick them off one by one, throwing objects around, shooting out lights etc. Or you can just wait until the right opportunity and pass the area without touching anybody at all.
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And how does this quantify as "more" or "better" stealth gameplay than Metal Gear?

The issue with SC isn't Trial and Error, but rather the consequences of your actions.
 
some possible reasons:

* lost fans to splinter cell series
* turned off some fans with MGS2
* diluted the series' appeal with MGS:TTS
* perception that it is coming to XBOX rampant, so "why buy now when MGS3:Substance coming later?"
* ill-advised ps2 exclusivity deal when xbox is hot
* advertising? whats that?
 
Maybe the stealth genre is dieing out?

I remember Splinter Cell sold 1.5 million copies.

Pandora Tommorrow is struggling to hit over 500K. And that is with its awesome multiplayer mode where would the series by without it? I guess gamers have spoken and don't care for SC anymore either...
 
Are most fanboys fanboys because they are too poor to afford all of the consoles or something? Is it all just like that Fox & the Grapes fable where the fox says, "I didn't want those grapes anyway, they were probably sour?"
 
I simply enjoyed it more since I get to control the character 100% of the time, just found it much more immersive. I didn't like the MGS2 camera at all and found it detrimental to the gameplay, and no it has nothing to do with it being on PS2. Can't anybody dislike a game nowadays?

from the gamespot review:
Metal Gear Solid has always aspired to be more than just an action adventure game. The series has pushed the envelope in terms of storytelling through the video game medium, and it's also concocted some downright postmodern plot twists that are about as thought-provoking as games get. Yet these types of things have come at the expense of pure gameplay, which sometimes takes a backseat to the story and to the high concept.
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I simply am not interested in this kind of gaming.
 
The game is fucking great, it's much better than both part 1 and 2. I does start slow though, picks up after 3 - 5 hours.


Overall
MGS3 >>>>>>>>>>> Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow/Splinter Cell (forgetful story, shit characters, dumb weapons, no boss fights, and too much trial and error)

All three games are good and I enjoy Splinter Cell series as well.

Main problem with MGS3

Starts slow, camera angles are pain in the ass in some levels (The area with the helicopter)
 
EekTheKat said:
And how does this quantify as "more" or "better" stealth gameplay than Metal Gear?

The issue with SC isn't Trial and Error, but rather the consequences of your actions.
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what do you mean? if guards see you, they attack you, you can always go back and run into darkness and try to evade them. If you do something you shouldn't be doing (such as killing a guard/civilian), then your mission is aborted by the hq, then do you expect the game to go into a renegade commando mode?

I thought the biggest problem of the game was that it was a tad too linear in terms of level design, but it didn't make it any less enjoyable IMHO. Sometimes linear games can be really fun also.
 
bitwise said:
some possible reasons:

1. lost fans to splinter cell series
2. turned off some fans with MGS2
3. diluted the series' appeal with MGS:TTS
4. perception that it is coming to XBOX rampant, so "why buy now when MGS3:Substance coming later?"
5. ill-advised ps2 exclusivity deal when xbox is hot
6. advertising? whats that?
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1. Impossible. You don't loose fans of the stealth genre to a game that's been released 8th months ago.
2. Possible.
3. Not sure. This game was released on GameCube. I don't think there was a lot of GameCube/PlayStation 2 owners that bought The Twin Snakes to have such impact on Snake Eater sales.
4. Substance for X-Box was inferior than the PlayStation 2 version. Maybe if they think they can get it for cheap (like half the actual price).
5. X-Box is hot? X-Bots aren't playing Halo at the moment?
6. I agree completly...
 
I was afraid of this and I posted a thread mid-November asking about it. :(

Here's hoping word of mouth and a potential GOTY title from someone (not super likely with GTA:SA, Halo 2, HL2, & WOW out) will spur sales.

Long term I think it will do well, but probably not up to normal MGS standards.
 
Unison said:
Are most fanboys fanboys because they are too poor to afford all of the consoles or something? Is it all just like that Fox & the Grapes fable where the fox says, "I didn't want those grapes anyway, they were probably sour?"
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Either that or they're using a console to fill in the gaps of their own identity. Connecting to something bigger like Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo gives them support. I'm sure there are plenty of valid reasons for only having once console. I don't know, just seems like some people want to pick a side.
 
thorns said:
Well almost all video games are based on trial and error. You could also say Halo is based on trial and error and very linear, but it doesn't stop it from being a great game. I have found that you can usually approach a situation in SC in many different ways even though the game is very linear. For example in the chinese embassy sewers where you meet three guards patrolling the sewers, one solution is to put a sticky shocker into water, when all the guards on the water to shock them all at the same time. Or you can simply trail them and pick them off one by one, throwing objects around, shooting out lights etc. Or you can just wait until the right opportunity and pass the area without touching anybody at all.

What do you mean the mission is over when you get caught? You never get caught in SC, either you're dead or the mission is aborted by the headquarters.
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You've just confirmed and supported my complaints...
 
thorns said:
I simply enjoyed it more since I get to control the character 100% of the time, just found it much more immersive. I didn't like the MGS2 camera at all and found it detrimental to the gameplay, and no it has nothing to do with it being on PS2. Can't anybody dislike a game nowadays?

from the gamespot review:

I simply am not interested in this kind of gaming.
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/shrug honestly I don't care one way or another whether you like Metal Gear or not, I'm just curious as to how anybody can view Splinter Cell as having "superior gameplay" when in fact it's merely a derivative of what's been done already, in much more confined levels.

The Camera is really still the only reason why people cite Splinter Cell as having "superior" gameplay.
 
* perception that it is coming to XBOX rampant, so "why buy now when MGS3:Substance coming later?"
* ill-advised ps2 exclusivity deal when xbox is hot
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Just to address these two, I don't think either would have had any real impact on MGS3 sales. Just look at GTA:SA. Was that too 'ill advised' to be PS2 exclusive, and isn't it 10x more obvious for that game that it will be ported to PC and later to Xbox? Yet, it's selling insane numbers, even more than VC did.
 
dark10x said:
You've just confirmed and supported my complaints...
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okay then let's say that we agree except for the fun part :). I have a lot of fun analyzing the situation and solving the "puzzles".
 
This is no fair. I don't like MGS either, but thorns gets all the attention. There is no justice.

**climbs to the top of a bell tower with a sniper rifle**
 
I bought it,but I can't blame people for not caring,most people don't give a shit about the story/codec sequences...and IMO the gameplay isn't that great with the dumbass camera angles and shit.SC is much better in that area...
 
Maybe the stealth genre is deing out?
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It probably needs more innovation. And the oversaturation of half-assed clones on the market sort of sucks all the fun out of it too.

co-op/multiplayer might be that thing that resparks interest in the genre again, but it's one helluva huge hurdle to clear and odds are it'll take them several games to truly get it "right".

Or maybe Kojima knew something else the rest of us didn't when he kept on trying to leave Metal Gear to someone else and move on to something new lol
 
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