MGS3 BOMB BOMB! (It's sad)

shpankey said:
ohhh!!!! the typical retort... the pot, kettle, black argument. always looks good, even though it rarely ever holds water (as it doesn't with me). but i know it's always the first thing the fanboy has on his "retort list" as an argument.

and honestly, you're one to talk.

Apparently it does hold water with you. Made you double post. So there might be some validity to the pot, kettle, black. :)
 
monkeyrun said:
probably the "snake eater" name sounds kinda gay for US average teens ... :lol

or .... maybe they don't like MGS2.

IAWTP. was just thinking the same thing. Plus, no tv commercial, ad, or screenshots can even give a true glimpse to the depth of the experience. Granted, there are many games like that, but I feel that MGS3 take that to a new level.

GAwd I am an MGS3 whore, sorry..
 
This is karma. Its good to see you all eating crow and coming to the harsh realization that the GAF japanese game lover attitude is not shared by the majority.

:lol :lol :lol

Seriously, cheer up guys. You know MGS3 is great fun, so who cares about sales ? right ?
 
Kanbee-san said:
Hasnt it already sold enough in japan and the US to warrant a sequel ?

Well it hasn't gone on-sale in Japan yet (Dec 16th) and the US sales are awful compared to MGS2 first month sales...so yeah.

It'll be interesting if the Japanese sales are higher in the first week than the first 2 weeks of US sales. Over here in Japan the game is getting a lot of local hype from even the smaller game shops, though ToR being released on the same day might hurt it a bit.
 
Ar_ said:
To me MGS3 seems overrated here.

Biggest problem is the camera view from above and too close.
Enemyes can see you from much far outside your screen view, forcing to costantly switch between to first perspective camera - in which you can't move, unless I missed something - and back. Problem is accentuated by the lack of radar.
This hoveread perspective also trivializes close range sneaking, showing enemyes behing solid objects that would realistically cover your view.
Stealth games need a first person or behind the char camera, showing far in front of you.

Well, the camera situation isn't as simple as you make it out to be. If it were a behind-the-character camera, then it would be difficult to see things behind you and to your side, especially with the wide open spaces of MGS3, and the frequent action sequences.

Another issue: Camera problems + your huge arsenal + Snake's ability to take more bullets than a tank = more effectove to play the game as a shooter, killing everything in your way, than by stealth.

I totally agree, and I pointed this out in the stickied thread. Stealth is undermined by this change to the formula. Both MGS1 and MGS2 penalized you far more severly for being discovered.

And there are better shooters out there, if thats what you want to play.
And better stealth games as well, of course.

Well, it's both an action and stealth game, so it doesn't have to be the best in both to be considered great.

Cinemas are CHEEEEEESYY beyond words, as also the characters and story.
"Who fears a little thunder"?? Geee, I WONDER WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT!
Snake? Dense as a rock and childish. Ask Eva about him.
Cobra Team? You telling me that those freaks are the heroes who stopped a war?
Bee Boy? Out of all places, he picks a lake to face me? And then is he... dances... or what? That's what you get for eating bees I guess, stings on the brain.
Rocket Man? "You are runnning out of fury!". Sigh, not like the others have better lines.
The End? What's up with his eyes? Having him sleep 24/7 wasn't weird enough for Kojima's standards?

Would you rather have the game take itself too seriously? The comic book approach has been there since the first MG on the MSX. I'm not a big fan of it, but I don't mind it that much.

Poor boss battles. The End? Boring. The Ghost? 10 minutes of slow motion walk isn't fun.

I have to disagree there. The End seems boring and easy at first, but then that becomes the challenge. Unless you feel like spending over an hour on the battle, you better come up with a good strategy. The Ghost (as you call him) is all about atmosphere, and a little bit of thinking.

Caution timer? I left the game playing with itself, went to the kitchen, had plenty snacks, and got overweight, waiting for it to run down.

This, especially on the 3 occasions where you have to reach a point undetected, kinds of counters the enemies' bullets being too weak. A long caution timer encourages you to be more stealthy.
 
Heh I just saw a new commercial for MGS3 - it has a bunch of reviews in front of it citing perfect scores, but it's pretty much like all the other old ones they've been airing (except this one has a SNAKE IS BACK voiceover).
 
Haha looks like Konami of America was quick to run some commercials about the reviews in MGS3!

I just saw a new one.

Said stuff like:

-5/5 Gamepro

-10/10 PSM

-"Snake is back!" :lol I thought that comment was funny that they mentioned this in the review! :lol

Hopefully more people catch on about the roxoring nature of MGS3!
 
shpankey said:
damn, so many ps2 and mgs fanboys in here. seems like anyone disagree with them and they start casting out the fucking lame ass insults (this thread is fucking littered with them). pathetic.

learn to accept another fucking opinion. holy shit.

Hey, that's good advice.
 
I have it, I love it up to the point I'm at, but the camera work is what turns a lot of people off, especially after playing Splinter Cell. Hell, the guy that got me into the MGS series perfers Splinter Cell now
 
Tabris said:
The reason why MGS is a superior series is it's a stealth game that when you're caught, it's not game over, you have to deal with the consequences of being caught and try to figure a way out of it.

You mean like crawling underneath something so that the retarded guards forget you're there 60 seconds later? Or hiding in a cardboard box?
 
AniHawk said:

:lol pwned.

To the haters. Just becasue a game doesn't sell tons of copies IN IT'S FIRST 2 WEEKS OF RELEASE doesn't mean it's a bomb.

COCKLES said:
This news makes my heart swell!

YES!!!!!!!



Now perhaps Konami can get back to making real games instead of pandering to the extravagent whims of that hack Kojima and his pretentious, moviefest twaddle.

The hell? Did Kojima rape your mother or something? :lol
 
It deserves so much more. 2004 GOTY for me.
Hopefully sales will pick up. Heavy competition with zero commercials in november had a pretty big effect.
 
When I was talking to people about MGS3 before its release, nearly everone I talked to felt burnt by MGS2 and swore not to get MGS3... So I think the whole MGS2 story has scared them away, cuz they're expecting to get burnt by ridiculous plot points again.

I just hope I can wait till Xmas without getting anything spoiled for me :P
 
Miburou said:
Well, the camera situation isn't as simple as you make it out to be. If it were a behind-the-character camera, then it would be difficult to see things behind you and to your side, especially with the wide open spaces of MGS3, and the frequent action sequences.

Even then, it imo would have been better than the current camera. Also, a limited sight of what is behind you might be considered a realism-enchancing improvement.
Or they could have put it behind the char and a little farther, like in many action games (Maximo?), offering a compromise between view around and in front of you; is not like the used camera shows that much around you anyway.
Or they could have used 2 camera perspectives switchable at the press of a button and both allowing movement, the current one for close stalth and behind-char one for all other times.

Maybe the camera they used was to provide an intended gameplay experience (meh).
Maybe it was to mask how often and much the engine suffers when has to draw a farther view.
Regardless, while I accepred this limited camera on MGS1 - it was a PS1 game after all, can't ask the moon from it - is getting annoying after 2 sequels and on more powerful hardware.

Well, it's both an action and stealth game, so it doesn't have to be the best in both to be considered great.

Good point.

Would you rather have the game take itself too seriously?

Heh, I'd say it does take itself pretty seriously, with all the lectures, pretenses of drama, live video.
Which causes a stark contrast with the cheesy... everything.. mixed in.

Anyway I was mostly reacting and jesting at some of the "MGS IS THE BEST STORY EVER IS PURRRFECT" attitudes around here.

I have to disagree there. The End seems boring and easy at first, but then that becomes the challenge. Unless you feel like spending over an hour on the battle, you better come up with a good strategy. The Ghost (as you call him) is all about atmosphere, and a little bit of thinking.

Maybe I suck, cause I spent far too much time with them.

The end takes forever, to first map the area, then get a hang of the AI, how to counter it, and finally chipping away its health.
Then I followed the codec suggestion of killing all animals in the area to get it by hunger, wich took I-don't-know-how-long, and when low he ended up managing to recover more than half stamina anyway, running out of my view and starting to say some weird line, before I could find and interrupt his regen.
He isn't "hard" as in dangerous or exciting, just a too long battle.
Not to mention his AI seems to be a hack. The moment he gets distance from you, he just teleports to the next sniping point. Had him run out of sight for a few seconds as I was chasing him, and next he is sniping me from the opposite side of the map. Whatever.

The Sorrow, I did that sequence at least 3 times.
I thought it would be lame for a game to give me two puzzles in a row requiring the same solution, so excluded it from the start.
Silly me, trying to avoid the istant death touch by swimming underwater, running backwards, looking for targets to snipe, waiting and killing everything, looking for movement paths, and so on...

This, especially on the 3 occasions where you have to reach a point undetected, kinds of counters the enemies' bullets being too weak. A long caution timer encourages you to be more stealthy.

For a good portion of the game, it just encourages crawling under something, moving a few feets from the spots where you were last sighted, dropping the joypad and going to eat a few pizzas.

Closer to the end, it encourages running to your destination, dropping the joypap, dying, and respawning in the last area you entered with the alarm turned off and your health restored to the level it was when you entered it.
Easyer and faster this way than fighting and evading your way with the poor camera.

Oh, I also forgot what a "nice" touch is that I ran in most boss battles with just half health left.
Again, it ultimately encouraged dropping joypad and going to eat something while waiting for health to regen - which I did before the final battle.
Now I need a diet, and blame MGS for it!
 
Urrrm... MGS might have its camera setup because:

metal-2.gif


Suck my old school ass. :D
 
A lot of franchises seem to fade around the third or fourth installment though ...

Resident Evil 3
Mortal Kombat 3
Super Street Fighter 2 (the third or fourth iteration of SF2)
Tomb Raider IV

etc.


There are some exceptions, like Super Mario Bros. 3 (although was Mario 2 really considered a sequel or more like a spin-off?).

Even GTA: San Andreas is cooling off a bit.
 
Unison said:
Urrrm... MGS might have its camera setup because:

metal-2.gif


Suck my old school ass. :D

Because of a red X? ^^

The funny part is, MGS3 also reminded me the camera of the old bit games... and that they felt fore fun!
They showed a larger piece of battleground than MGS3 often does, and I don't remember being shoot from enemyes outside the screen in the little I played of the MSX version.

At times seemed I had on my hands a poorly thought 3d adaptation of a concept created to work well in 2d.
 
You can say the camera sucks, the gameplay sucks, people hate the cut-scenes, etc. but I think it all comes down to the fact that games like GTA:SA and Halo 2 give you a lot more bang for the buck. You can finish MGS3 in a rental no problem. Unless you care about collecting camos and playing the Ape Escape minigame there's not much left to do afterwards.

I enjoyed MGS3 a lot the first time around because I'm somewhat a fan of the series, but if you hated the last 3 MGS games I don't think Snake Eater is going to make much of a difference. And even I haven't felt compelled to play the game a second time through.
 
soundwave05 said:
There are some exceptions, like Super Mario Bros. 3 (although was Mario 2 really considered a sequel or more like a spin-off?).

Most western players probably consider SMB3 the second in the series - don't think SMB2 was released outside Japan until after SMWorld, and it wasn't considered as good as the other games anyway, on top of being quite different.

Even so, counting SMW as the third game, it still had great success. My personal favorite, slighty above SMB3.
 
soundwave05 said:
There are some exceptions, like Super Mario Bros. 3 (although was Mario 2 really considered a sequel or more like a spin-off?).
It's part of the official Mario cannon and is considered a sequel. In the Western hemisphere it's considered the second game in the series and me thinks the Japanese consider it to be a side story. The opposite happens when you look at the real sequel to the game, known here in the US as "Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels." The Western audiance consider it to be an expansion to the original and the Japanese consider it to be the official sequel to the first.

Super Mario Bros 2 (called "Super Mario Bros. USA") was a result of American execs not thinking the official sequel was different enough from the first so they localized a Japanese game titled "Doki Doki Panic" and replaced the four main characters with SMB ones. Though this was a crazy turn for the series it is officially considered as part of the Mario universe.
 
jedimike said:
You also have to take into account the number of MGS fans that ditched it in favor of Splinter Cell. Maybe not a huge number, but the little things can add up.

Metal Gear fans that ditched for Splinter Cell are not Metal Gear fans. They're traitors.

Seriously, it's sad to see the GOTY sell so poorly.
 
Heh yeah I know it's announced. But just incase Konami decides to pull the plug on MGS4 or something because of lackluster sales of MGS3.

How did other Konami titles do this year?
 
MGS2: Huge ass advertising campaign and was the first super hyped PS2 release (GTA3 caught the gaming industry by storm with its huge sales that year).

MGS3: Not nearly as much advertising, coming out in a crowded holiday season.

Makes sense why it'd be underperforming. I think it'll right itself as the fiscal years continues, picking up steam along with Konami's advertising campaign and the generally great word of mouth behind it. It'll also help when people chill out on the GTA and Halo 2 obsessions only to realize that there's a game at least as good as both of them waiting to be played.
 
Boy... replace the word "Konami" with "Nintendo" and "MGS3" with nearly any Nintendo title over the last year...

"No advertising!" "Casual gamers didn't like it" "Not realistic enough" "exclusivity is bad, because the Xbox is selling so well"
 
Ar_ said:
Even then, it imo would have been better than the current camera. Also, a limited sight of what is behind you might be considered a realism-enchancing improvement.
Or they could have put it behind the char and a little farther, like in many action games (Maximo?), offering a compromise between view around and in front of you; is not like the used camera shows that much around you anyway.
Or they could have used 2 camera perspectives switchable at the press of a button and both allowing movement, the current one for close stalth and behind-char one for all other times.

Maybe the camera they used was to provide an intended gameplay experience (meh).
Maybe it was to mask how often and much the engine suffers when has to draw a farther view.
Regardless, while I accepred this limited camera on MGS1 - it was a PS1 game after all, can't ask the moon from it - is getting annoying after 2 sequels and on more powerful hardware.

I definitely think the camera needs to be improved for MGS4, I just don't think it's as easy as simply borrowing Splinter Cell's camera.


Maybe I suck, cause I spent far too much time with them.

The end takes forever, to first map the area, then get a hang of the AI, how to counter it, and finally chipping away its health.
Then I followed the codec suggestion of killing all animals in the area to get it by hunger, wich took I-don't-know-how-long, and when low he ended up managing to recover more than half stamina anyway, running out of my view and starting to say some weird line, before I could find and interrupt his regen.
He isn't "hard" as in dangerous or exciting, just a too long battle.
Not to mention his AI seems to be a hack. The moment he gets distance from you, he just teleports to the next sniping point. Had him run out of sight for a few seconds as I was chasing him, and next he is sniping me from the opposite side of the map. Whatever.

I don't think that's true. I've tracked his footprints (using the thermal goggles), and you can follow his complete tracks from one sniping point to the next.

Anyway, I was getting bored of the fight (and I couldn't find the sniper rifle, or I think I had it but didn't know), so I started using the mic to sniff him out, and then surprise him and shoot him in the back while he was escaping, and follow him using his footprints. It didn't take long after (and I was playing on hard).

The Sorrow, I did that sequence at least 3 times.
I thought it would be lame for a game to give me two puzzles in a row requiring the same solution, so excluded it from the start.
Silly me, trying to avoid the istant death touch by swimming underwater, running backwards, looking for targets to snipe, waiting and killing everything, looking for movement paths, and so on...

I got stuck there, too, but then I asked Zero and he gave me hints. This is one of the things I really like about MGS. If you get stuck you can ask your team and they'll point you in the right direction. BTW, what other puzzle are you talking about? That was the first and last time I've ever used the fake death pill.

For a good portion of the game, it just encourages crawling under something, moving a few feets from the spots where you were last sighted, dropping the joypad and going to eat a few pizzas.

Closer to the end, it encourages running to your destination, dropping the joypap, dying, and respawning in the last area you entered with the alarm turned off and your health restored to the level it was when you entered it.
Easyer and faster this way than fighting and evading your way with the poor camera.

Honestly, I only ever needed to drop the controller and wait (studying for my final in my case) was when I was supposed to meet someone without triggering an alert. Otherwise I didn't have the patience for that, so I'd try to be extra careful not to be discovered, and when I was, I'd shoot my way to the next section. It might be easier to just hide for a while, but it's not faster, IMO.

Oh, I also forgot what a "nice" touch is that I ran in most boss battles with just half health left.
Again, it ultimately encouraged dropping joypad and going to eat something while waiting for health to regen - which I did before the final battle.
Now I need a diet, and blame MGS for it!

Well, if you save and come back later, your health get replenished. The longer the time since you saved, the more your health gets replenished.
 
From someone that was VERY critical of MGS2,

MGS3 is fantastic. It deserves so much better; especially considering how well MGS2 did.

This IS sad, and I usually don't care how games perform. For one, KCET may feel the game was in some way a mistake - while in reality, they did a wonderful job. And secondly, more people should be playing this.
 
BTW, what other puzzle are you talking about? That was the first and last time I've ever used the fake death pill.

The prison.
Use fork on your wound, and you find one
Maybe there are different ways to solve that area, a good thing about this game are the small touches.

Well, if you save and come back later, your health get replenished. The longer the time since you saved, the more your health gets replenished.

I know, you can choose to wait with the PS on or off. This way you won't get stuck, but still, waiting you are. Not much of an improvement imo :p
 
Well, if you save and come back later, your health get replenished. The longer the time since you saved, the more your health gets replenished.

There is LF RCVR medicine sprinkled throughout the game that gives life back. If you don't want to wait it out, why not just use it?
 
There's also an Alternative to waiting out alerts -
if you take out all the guards eventually the alert status goes away

There's one or two instances that are exceptions to this rule, but generally you don't have to wait out alerts.

It's pretty funny to hear about complaints regarding health in this game, as people generally believe that Snake takes way too little damage in this game.
 
EekTheKat said:
There is LF RCVR medicine sprinkled throughout the game that gives life back. If you don't want to wait it out, why not just use it?

Touche. Because... humm... it was rare in the beginning, so I forgot about it :)
Was it even avaliable for the first boss battles? I just noticed a few life recovery items sitting on my inventory late in the game.
 
Touche. Because... humm... it was rare in the beginning, so I forgot about it

Actually to answer my own question - if you're sadistic enough and were going for the best rank in the game, you shouldn't use it.

But I found they're actually fairly spread out. Sometimes guards have them as well so it pays to mug them.
 
It would be funny if the game performs well in Japan salewise, since America got it first exactly for that reason (the Metal Gear Solid franchise usually sells better over here)!
 
I thought character development/dimensions isn't that great in MGS3 compared to the other ones. That is one weakness of MGS3. Although I presume Kojima made them shallow for American gamers.
 
Ar_ said:
The prison.
Use fork on your wound, and you find one
Maybe there are different ways to solve that area, a good thing about this game are the small touches.

I just called the frequency The Sorrow flashes to you in the torture scene to have the door magically get unlocked.

And yeah, the small touches are really something.
If you save in jail, and reload, Snake has a nightmare where you have to hunt down zombies in an urban setting.
 
For you guys that haven't played it, the cutscenes/codec aren't nearly as persuasive as past games once you get past the prologue mission (two hours into the game) where it was quite boring, excessive, and probably turned people away from the game. Bosses don't even give long speeches anymore for the most part.

Another improvement is even only counting gamplay the game is quite long. I think my second playthrough where I skipped every cutscene/codec possible was atleast as long as my first run through of SC:PT.

Ar_ said:
Biggest problem is the camera view from above and too close.
Enemies can see you from much far outside your screen view, forcing to constantly switch between to first perspective camera - in which you can't move, unless I missed something - and back. Problem is accentuated by the lack of radar.

If you have camo on and are prone guards can't see you until you're quite close from what I've experienced. When you enter an area you usually have a good view to take out the scope and watch their routes for a bit as well, combine that with AP sensor/Motion Sensor and its not hard to know where guards are.

While the camera should be overhauled for the next game, due to level design and enemy placement I really didn't have that much trouble in MGS3 outdoors. Indoors
actually only areas where you have a disguise on
was a different story, as it was too easy to blindly run into a guard/scientist when running around corners and into new rooms.

Another issue: Camera problems + your huge arsenal + Snake's ability to take more bullets than a tank = more effective to play the game as a shooter, killing everything in your way, than by stealth.
And there are better shooters out there, if thats what you want to play.
And better stealth games as well, of course.

Not for me. Even if you have ammo and health for it, I always find it quicker to just sneak up on guards and CQC them then get in a big fight. You can clear out large areas without being seen, wasting ammo, and get out quick if you try.

Cinemas are CHEEEEEESYY beyond words, as also the characters and story.

Agreed, although I like watching B-movies so I didn't mind. Plus, except for the prologue their isn't nearly as much cutscene interruptions in the meat of the game as the first two MGS games. Codec is now just for game help/instruction, bonus info, and nearly never used to further the story past the intro, which is a vast improvement over the shitty use in MGS2.

Poor boss battles. The End? Boring. The Ghost? 10 minutes of slow motion walk isn't fun.

I couldn't disagree more, The End showcased everything right about MGS gameplay in its freedom. The length of the fight is completely based on how you want to play it, as a drawn out sniper battle, a nonstop chase with close up fighting, or
even no fight at all
. The Sorrow was neat in its tracking of your deaths but the solution was obvious IMO. Another big improvement was the amount of bosses.

Caution timer? I left the game playing with itself, went to the kitchen, had plenty snacks, and got overweight, waiting for it to run down.

You realize you can still usually sneak past/takeout guards during caution without too much trouble right? Just watch for the three or four sweepers that stick together and take them out or avoid them. Its not like MGS2 where the areas are so confined, two or four guards make it impossible to sneak past. Waiting for it to run down is a waste of time, IMO.

But the hallelujas it receives here are a bit excessive.

Probably because people had low expectations after how MGS2 turned out. That and its a damn good game.

Sorry for selectively quoting and replying to your post Ar_, but I'm in a hurry and don't feel like writing something coherent and concise.
 
MoxManiac said:
I'm glad I did my part by not buying the game!
Hep, count me in the "Splinter Cell converted".

I did the first 2 games, and I don't really feel the need to play the third part. I bought Twin Snakes when it came out, and I was instantly remembered of how poor the camera was for this type of game.

Seriously, those of you here stating that Splinter Cell has got a linear story needs to take a look at Metal Gear. It's as linear as Splinter Cell. Some said that the minute you get detected, it's game over in SC, well, I've been detected countless number of times and almost always got myself out of shit without dying. The guards AI are dumb in SC, but they are as dumb in Metal Gear. They forget about you like 1 minute after seeing you. I've seen a lot of places in previous Metal Gear where you could do things in a certain number of ways, as you can so almost everything as you like in SC.

I can understand people liking the 2 games, but stealth wise, Splinter Cell is as revolutionnary this generation as Metal Gear : Solid was last gen.
 
MGS fanboys are complaining about mainstream gamers?

Damn you all! The Thief games are better! ALL THREE OF THEM. LEARN TRUE STEALTH!
 
actually, the Thief series is closer to SC games than they are to MGS games. SC pretty much is a poor Thief rip off, in my eyes. At least MGS offers different gameplay.
 
Top Bottom