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[Yagharek]

If Snake had to kill himself with forcing the player to push the button, I can guarantee you there'd be a much larger cry on these forums and others about how much of an MGS3 copout that was.

I thought that you were going to have to pull the trigger yourself.

If you can predict a Kojima game, it's a letdown. This game was not predictable.

 

[sonicmj1]

I thought that you were going to have to pull the trigger yourself.

If you can predict a Kojima game, it's a letdown. This game was not predictable.

But wouldn't a MGS game being predictable, by being predictable, cause it to be unpredictable?

 

[Yagharek]

:lol

Indeed it would, but that is like a snake eating its own tale/what does GNU stand for etc.

I know why people would be miffed by it, it appears like a happy ending for everyone and thus no tragic ending for the hero.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the ending also makes the point that the shit is going to hit the fan again one day, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. That isn't a happy ending - that's reality.

 

[Totz]

If another 'tactical espionage action' game is made, it had damn well better completely divorce itself from any events that happened at any point in the Metal Gear saga.

Well, I wouldn't mind having a game set in between MGS1 and 2, because of the widespread of variants of REX and all. Without Snake and the gang, of course.

 

[Helzown]

Well, I wouldn't mind having a game set in between MGS1 and 2, because of the widespread of variants of REX and all. Without Snake and the gang, of course.

If they let the series die, I'll understand. But should they revive it I wouldn't mind seeing more of The Boss' story.

 

[Callibretto]

if I have to press the button myself to kill Solid Snake, I'd be pretty depressed. from the context of the story, it might be Solid Snake who pulled the trigger, but from my point of view, I'm the one who killed him. I'll be dead inside from that day forward.

I think the theme in mgs 4 some people seems to forget is redemption (imo). the whole theme for mgs 3 is tragedy that start the downfall of Big Boss, which is why forcing the player to pull the trigger make the whole game even more tragic. I don't think pulling the same trick in mgs 4 will have the same impact.

would you like it that you get the suicide scene and pulled the trigger yourselves, Big Boss never appear, and then at the end you got Drebin explain that the new foxdie he injected will nullify the old one from being mutated. at that time you'll just felt like you've commit a crime for killing snake for no reason at all.

 

[MattKeil]

Well, I wouldn't mind having a game set in between MGS1 and 2, because of the widespread of variants of REX and all. Without Snake and the gang, of course.

The next Metal Gear will probably pick up 15 or so years after MGS4, covering the next generation of soldiers and warfare.

But first, I predict a Snatcher prequel/tie-in covering Raiden's time becoming cyberized by Dr. Madnar.

 

[oldschlgmr]

Didn't like the Meryl and Johnny scenes towards the end. That "will you marry me?" scene where they were shooting the guys is a little too cheesy. Not exactly the end though.

I also thought Meryl looked like a dude in a wedding dress.

Everything else was good enough to make me forget about that.

 

[Damodar]

if I have to press the button myself to kill Solid Snake, I'd be pretty depressed. from the context of the story, it might be Solid Snake who pulled the trigger, but from my point of view, I'm the one who killed him. I'll be dead inside from that day forward.

I think the theme in mgs 4 some people seems to forget is redemption (imo). the whole theme for mgs 3 is tragedy that start the downfall of Big Boss, which is why forcing the player to pull the trigger make the whole game even more tragic. I don't think pulling the same trick in mgs 4 will have the same impact.

would you like it that you get the suicide scene and pulled the trigger yourselves, Big Boss never appear, and then at the end you got Drebin explain that the new foxdie he injected will nullify the old one from being mutated. at that time you'll just felt like you've commit a crime for killing snake for no reason at all.

Yeah, before the game came out, I was wondering if i'd have to kill snake. Dunno if I could have done it

To those suggesting suicide would have been better for snake and he would have found peace, I thought the game communicated to me that that is not how snake wanted to go at all. I got the impression of a man who knew his time was running low and wanted to enjoy it. Giving up smoking etc suggests that he wants to have as much time left as possible.

 

[Schrade]

Didn't like the Meryl and Johnny scenes towards the end. That "will you marry me?" scene where they were shooting the guys is a little too cheesy. Not exactly the end though.

I agree with this. Made me cringe and roll my eyes.

I also thought Meryl looked like a dude in a wedding dress.

This is what happens when women work out or use their muscles a lot. They get that masculine look in the arms/shoulders. I'd think it's very realistic for the position and career that she's in. Should have shown more closeups of her ass though

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Why is hideo koijima a big fan of that horrible pirates of the carribean: at world's end, you know which scene, it made me cringe.

The only reason you think that was from Pirates of the Carribean is because it was the last ship battle you seen in a movie probably. What else was that old war battle ship supposed to do when outer haven launched a volley of missiles at it? Throw up it's bubble shield and teleport back 3 miles to fire it's omega beam?

The whole point is they needed to catch up to it so they can catapult 3 people inside it while Outer haven had a opening in it's armor due to having to use the rail gun that was grafted onto the bridge.

I'll give it to you though. PotC did come up with a pretty cool idea of ships shooting at each other.

 

[Panajev2001a]

:lol


Come to think of it, that would make for an even more powerful ending. Snake can't kill himself because the nanomachines keep turning the bullets into pudding. He's all out of syringe injections and the only people who know how to deal with the nanomachines are dead (like Naomi) or refuse to help (like Sunny).

Resorting to any method he can think of, we get a scene where a line of soldiers, at the behest of the US Military and led by Col. Campbell, are ordered to fire at Snake in order to try and kill him. As his body is riddled with bullets, fountains of chocolate pudding come pouring out into huge puddles. Dramatic music plays while Snake sinks into the pudding.

Big Boss shows up with Ocelot. Snake is incredulous that they're both alive, to which Big Boss and Ocelot both say in unison "the nanomachines!" just as they high-five each other. In the ensuing 30 minute cutscene, they reveal they were secretly working together for the TRUE goal of The Boss -- an unlimited supply of chocolate pudding. As it turns out she was a huge fan of chocolate pudding.

You forget Big Boss and Ocelot "War Economy" tap dance duet .

 

[Always-honest]

although the game is pure greatness, i felt some of the cutscenes were insulting to our intelligence.
How the hell does Kojima think he can get away with that level of cheesyness....

it was even worse than watching the LOTR3 epilogue

 

[zoukka]

I thought that you were going to have to pull the trigger yourself.

If you can predict a Kojima game, it's a letdown. This game was not predictable.

Yeah well MGS4 was in some places pretty fucking predictable. That river scene for example showing zillions of PMC swarming and Meryl "taking control" and busting Liquid... who the fuck had any tension left in that scene? It was so obvious Liquid would own everyone and escape. But they just prolongued the scene to eternity and beyond...

And that conversation about REX oh my god... we knew Liquid would use it to launch the nuke like before the game was even released :lol

The game had too many "Noo i'm about to die" moments too, where you knew that someone (Raiden) would save the day in the last possible moment.

And Kojima showing us Snake eating a gun before the game was released was a dead give away that he wouldn't kill himself. When the '45 went off I was really surprised and humbled. Just to be kicked in the nuts by Big Boss...

 

[antiloop]

although the game is pure greatness, i felt some of the cutscenes were insulting to our intelligence.
How the hell does Kojima think he can get away with that level of cheesyness....

it was even worse than watching the LOTR3 epilogue

Poor you being forced to watch something that insults your intelligence. :lol

Just go play FPS games instead.

 

[Ten-Song]

My big problem with the real ending, and I guess most of the game, is no one knows when to just shut the hell up. They establish a point like seven goddamn times before they ever dare let me touch the controller again.

Spoiler

"ZERO, BOSS'S WILL, ONE BACK TO ZERO, CHAOS, BOSS'S WILL!" Okay, yeah I get it already, shut up and die, instead of pretending to have died like seven fucking times. Had Big Boss just shown up, said "yup, it's all done now, you're fine", and then sat down and died, it would have been better. Then again, the only REAL good way to end this game would have been to just have Snake kill himself.

 

[dmshaposv]

I also thought Meryl looked like a dude in a wedding dress.

I actually liked that design decision by the art team. Meryl is after all a soldier and a muscular squad leader type at that. So it only makes sense she looks a bit buff.

 

[Callibretto]

I just realize the genius of the ending Kojima made.

the hardcore fans that hate it will forever put off by Kojima's metal gear game because of the horrible ending

while the other half that liked the ending will be contempt with the awesome ending thinking it's the perfect way to end the series.

either way, both camp will feel no more need for a new metal gear continuing this story.

 

[Always-honest]

Poor you being forced to watch something that insults your intelligence. :lol

Just go play FPS games instead.

oh my, avatar boy feels personaly insulted.... don't identify yourself too much with something you bought....

 

[Steiner_Zi]

:lol

Indeed it would, but that is like a snake eating its own tale/what does GNU stand for etc.

I know why people would be miffed by it, it appears like a happy ending for everyone and thus no tragic ending for the hero.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the ending also makes the point that the shit is going to hit the fan again one day, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. That isn't a happy ending - that's reality.

Snake is going to die in 3-4 months, anyway.

 

[neojubei]

I actually liked that design decision by the art team. Meryl is after all a soldier and a muscular squad leader type at that. So it only makes sense she looks a bit buff.

Same here, Meryl is a solider first and so she is built like one. Meryl sort of reminds me of Starbuck of Battlestar Galactica.

Poor you being forced to watch something that insults your intelligence. :lol

Just go play FPS games instead.

:lol

The only reason you think that was from Pirates of the Carribean is because it was the last ship battle you seen in a movie probably. What else was that old war battle ship supposed to do when outer haven launched a volley of missiles at it? Throw up it's bubble shield and teleport back 3 miles to fire it's omega beam?

The whole point is they needed to catch up to it so they can catapult 3 people inside it while Outer haven had a opening in it's armor due to having to use the rail gun that was grafted onto the bridge.

I'll give it to you though. PotC did come up with a pretty cool idea of ships shooting at each other.

Seems that way, I mean how else were Meryl, Snake and Johnny suppose to jump on board Outer Haven?

Didn't like the Meryl and Johnny scenes towards the end. That "will you marry me?" scene where they were shooting the guys is a little too cheesy. Not exactly the end though.

I also thought Meryl looked like a dude in a wedding dress.

Everything else was good enough to make me forget about that.

I actually liked the Mr. and Mrs. Smith scene. It was cute and shown how much both characters have grown from where they used to be in the original game.

 

[Klone.K]

Most of you peoples replies just show how intellectually shallow you are. You all cry for an emotional ending (what is with Americans obsession with emotion) yet are disappointed with an intellectual ending where Big Boss relates several of the games themes/philosophy to the player. Just like MGS2's ending MGS4's was meant to teach us and inspire us intellectually. All you shallow people are simply afraid of thinking and live by your emotions you so expect story's to deliver.

 

[zoukka]

Most of you peoples replies just show how intellectually shallow you are. You all cry for an emotional ending (what is with Americans obsession with emotion) yet are disappointed with an intellectual ending where Big Boss relates several of the games themes/philosophy to the player. Just like MGS2's ending MGS4's was meant to teach us and inspire us intellectually. All you shallow people are simply afraid of thinking and live by your emotions you so expect story's to deliver.

Wow this is getting pretty desperate. You don't even try to clarify how it was a good ending, but go straight to insulting peoples intelligence and comprehension. You're fighting a lost cause dude.

 

[Raist]

I can understand people not liking MGS4's ending, or the entire story at that, but I don't understand this "Kojima is the shittiest shit that ever shit" attitude.

Especially since it seems that the ending wasn't his decision completely. So the whole "lulz get an editor" thing is quite funny.

I personnaly liked the ending. Sort of the circle is complete thing.

 

[camineet]

played MGS4 and pretty much think it's my most disappointing game this gen....

i play MGS for the mysteries of its universe and i think kojima really fucked it up this time round by answering all these questions we've never even asked and some we dont even care about.

there are no more mysteries and what he does explain is fucking bullshit most of the time.

and yeah i agree, the ending is ridiculous.... and cowardly. if i see snake in another game it is boycott central.

wow.

 

[Jackl]

I kinda get where they were going with the ending but jesus enough talking already. After explaining something 50 times over can we actually have some dramatic dialogue? And please, be dramatic in a classy way. Not cheesy like bigboss falling down for the 15th time.

Ever since after the first MGS game. Kojima or someone on his crew can't seem to make up their mind what the fuck they want to do. Half the lines are either awkward or aren't needed at all.

 

[-viper-]

Big Boss is awesome.

I also liked his voice artist. If they make a MGS5 featuring Big Boss, they should use him.

As much as I like David Hayter, I thought it was weird having Big Boss and Snake with the exact same voices.

 

[Mr. Spinnington]

As much as I like David Hayter, I thought it was weird having Big Boss and Snake with the exact same voices.

you just don't like him enough

you need to LOVE him

 

[Pop On Arrival]

I actually liked that design decision by the art team. Meryl is after all a soldier and a muscular squad leader type at that. So it only makes sense she looks a bit buff.

Agreed, her E3 2006 design was atrocious.

 

[McBradders]

I would preferred the end if Snake had topped himself.

I am no annoyed by the actual ending, but I think it impacted heavily on the emotional impact of it, and if Kojima had killed off Snake it would have really, really, put him on another level entirely as a game designer/director/auter in this medium.

OH WELL.

Roll on Metal Gear: Whatever.

 

[Yagharek]

Snake is going to die in 3-4 months, anyway.

Exactly.

 

[beelulzebub]

I am no annoyed by the actual ending, but I think it impacted heavily on the emotional impact of it, and if Kojima had killed off Snake it would have really, really, put him on another level entirely as a game designer/director/auter in this medium.

Lots of folks seem to be under the impression that the darker something is, the deeper the meaning that can be derived from it, and the more enlightened the auteur/creator/director is. MGS4 was an exceedingly sad, dark game. If the ending deviates from this only somewhat (Snake is still fucked, after all), this is by no stretch of the imagination a cop out, nor is it necessarily a weaker ending.

And if you want to view Kojima as an auteur, you best not forget things like his fourth wall breaking antics and the level of interactivity inherent in these design choices. Few other games incorporate elements like this and even fewer game designers actually make something like this one of their well-known design trademarks.

 

[Jenga]

I love these MGS plot threads, such a fucking circlejerk :lol Get over yourselves.

Was anyone else kinda let down hoping that the Liquid possession was real? Mostly because I thought it would've been neat to hear Cam Clarke do Ocelot's voice for shits and giggles.

 

[JB1981]

I agree the ending-ending was excruciatingly long-winded and self-indulgent.

 

[Klone.K]

Wow this is getting pretty desperate. You don't even try to clarify how it was a good ending, but go straight to insulting peoples intelligence and comprehension. You're fighting a lost cause dude.

Listen to Bigg Boss' dialogue again. It was basically a monologue touching upon many of the philosophical issues the MGS series has been tackling since 98. It reminded me of the brilliant ending of MGS2.

People obsessed with experiencing emotions through stories completely fail to appreciate the much more valuable asset MGS provides us; True knowledge.

 

[dark10x]

I really do think the game needed some serious editing. The cutscenes were just too long for their own good.

After starting a new game yesterday, I really felt as if they had it just right in the beginning and ended up losing focus on how a game should be directed later on. The way the cinemas were handled at the beginning was perfect.

 

[psycho_snake]

this x 100.

you have summarized down to the last word how mgs4 made me feel.

i feel terrible for the team of kojima slaves who had to actually make sense of the MGS universe after MGS2.

To be fair, they did an ok job. What needed to be explained was why vamp didnt die, who are the patriots and what the hell is going on with Liquid and Ocelot.

The explained why vamp didnt die and in the MGS world it seemed like a pretty logical explanation.

They explained who the patriots were, how they were founded and why Big Boss wanted to fight a war against them. They also explained that bit at the end of MGS2 where otacon said they've been dead for 100 years. Now they explained that by saying the info they got about then being dead all that time was a load of crap. It makes sense, but its not a great explanation. Its like they said it because there was no other way to eplain that cliffhanger at the end of MGS2.

Liquid taking over ocelots conscious was explained too. They said that Ocelot allowed liquid to take over his body so he could help destroy the patriots. It seemed like he was a good guy all along, but I highly doubt Kojima had that in mind when he first introduced ocelot in MGS1.

It must have been pretty difficult to carry on from MGS2's story, but in the end they did manage to explain what needed to be explained. The problem with the story telling was that there were things that didnt need to be there and the cutscenes were too long for their own good.

 

[psycho_snake]

Most of you peoples replies just show how intellectually shallow you are. You all cry for an emotional ending (what is with Americans obsession with emotion) yet are disappointed with an intellectual ending where Big Boss relates several of the games themes/philosophy to the player. Just like MGS2's ending MGS4's was meant to teach us and inspire us intellectually. All you shallow people are simply afraid of thinking and live by your emotions you so expect story's to deliver.

Intellecual ending? There's nothing intellectual about Big Boss going on and on and on about taking things back to zero. If it was meant to teach us and inspire us, then it didnt do the job. I learned nothing and wasnt inspired.

Its not about being obsessed with emotions, its about wanting a better ending. What would be more memorable, that boring big boss monologue or seeing snake shoot himself?

 

[Cmagus]

Spoiler

Snake had to die for the ending to be epic seriously I wish some game developers would stop being pussies and do it.I would have had far more of an emotional impact having the player start the story as Snake and finish it as Snake.Not this you have not to long to live go have fun at the waterpark while you can

 

[sechsterangriff]

* enters the thread *

* reads *

* facepalm.gif *

* leaves *

 

[zoukka]

* enters the thread *

* reads *

* facepalm.gif

* spams*

* leaves *

Fixed it for ya. Too bad you can't see it.

 

[DAVIDHUXLEY]

Listen to Bigg Boss' dialogue again. It was basically a monologue touching upon many of the philosophical issues the MGS series has been tackling since 98. It reminded me of the brilliant ending of MGS2.

People obsessed with experiencing emotions through stories completely fail to appreciate the much more valuable asset MGS provides us; True knowledge.

flogging dead horses with expository diarrhea=brilliance
I think not.

 

[sca2511]

When the first credits started to roll, I felt unsatisfied from the end, simply because nothing totally unexpected had happened until that point. Ironically, I felt the EXACT same thing when Naked Snake was banging Eva in MGS3, only to be blown away minutes later.

The scene with Big Boss serves as
a) the big plot twist of the game and of everything that had happened until this point,
b) further explaining the motives of the Patriots and the people who founded the organisation,
c) the death of Zero -the man who started it all- and
d) the final peacemaking between the two protagonists of the series, Big Boss and Snake, father and son, and between Big Boss and his dead mentor, the Boss; giving each character the peace he deserves.
If the game ended with the cliche "happy end when the main hero dies" would be a massive dissappointment for me. This is the easiest way to evoke emotion but it has been used so many times in films and anime nowadays that I've grown to dislike it. The way Kojima ended the game, Snake finally escapes from being a prisoner of fate (both from the Patriots and the Foxdie), receives recognition from his father and achieves peace until he dies.

Essentially, the final scene not only does not downgrade everything that happened in the MGS series, but on the contrary serves as the catharsis of the story.

AMEN TO THAT

 

[NinjaFridge]

I liked the ending. Maybe i will make a thread everytime i don't agree with an ending, be it in a movie, game or book.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I actually love the end the more I think about it.
I thought it wrapped everything up nicely. The one thing that does bother me is the Liquid/Ocelot hypnosis thing. I always
thought they were going to explain the reason for his powerful alter ego was due to the nanotech's in liquids arm and that
anytime he was around foxdie they went berserk hence why he was always Liquid not ocelot around Snake.

Like someone said though if you play MGS3 very close to 4 you realize how great 4 is. It really is a story of redemption and
finally something the series has promised this old veteran but never given him.

A chance to have a life.

ALSO
The end fight with liquid and snake is absolute brilliance.

 

[zoukka]

Where is he given this "chance of a life"? And he had a life in the middle of Metal Gears and Metal Gear Solid.

The end fight with liquid and snake is absolute brilliance.

It was nice, but I didn't like the unique fighting mechanics given only to this one fight. Also I didn't like how silently Liquid died. I honestly thought some outer force would disrupt their fight or the scene after it.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Where is he given this "chance of a life"? And he had a life in the middle of Metal Gears and Metal Gear Solid.



It was nice, but I didn't like the unique fighting mechanics given only to this one fight. Also I didn't like how silently Liquid died. I honestly thought some outer force would disrupt their fight or the scene after it.

Ahh man It just brought back so many memories for me.
The unbelievable graphics coupled with the ferociousness of some of the hits and the
absolute worn out expressions on their faces. It was just done perfect for me.
The final fight.

 

[neojubei]

Where is he given this "chance of a life"? And he had a life in the middle of Metal Gears and Metal Gear Solid.



It was nice, but I didn't like the unique fighting mechanics given only to this one fight. Also I didn't like how silently Liquid died. I honestly thought some outer force would disrupt their fight or the scene after it.

what? the final fight didn't need some external influence, this is what both of these men wanted.

When the first credits started to roll, I felt unsatisfied from the end, simply because nothing totally unexpected had happened until that point. Ironically, I felt the EXACT same thing when Naked Snake was banging Eva in MGS3, only to be blown away minutes later.

The scene with Big Boss serves as
a) the big plot twist of the game and of everything that had happened until this point,
b) further explaining the motives of the Patriots and the people who founded the organisation,
c) the death of Zero -the man who started it all- and
d) the final peacemaking between the two protagonists of the series, Big Boss and Snake, father and son, and between Big Boss and his dead mentor, the Boss; giving each character the peace he deserves.
If the game ended with the cliche "happy end when the main hero dies" would be a massive dissappointment for me. This is the easiest way to evoke emotion but it has been used so many times in films and anime nowadays that I've grown to dislike it. The way Kojima ended the game, Snake finally escapes from being a prisoner of fate (both from the Patriots and the Foxdie), receives recognition from his father and achieves peace until he dies.

Essentially, the final scene not only does not downgrade everything that happened in the MGS series, but on the contrary serves as the catharsis of the story.

So true. I think most people are too used to the idea of the hero killing themselves these days.

 

[FabCam]

Wow this is getting pretty desperate. You don't even try to clarify how it was a good ending, but go straight to insulting peoples intelligence and comprehension. You're fighting a lost cause dude.

Don't you think it's a really clever ending when the story ends how it began? I would prefer a twist where it ends with those whom it began with. It's basically a circle. It began with Zero and Big Boss so it ended with Zero and Big Boss. It was a clever ending. I don't see this obsession about "Snake must die for it to be emotional!". I thought it was pretty emotional seeing how the Patriots were ruling the world and you were fighting against them the whole time yet in the end, you see that the remainder of the Patriots are two old men.

Plus, Snake is going to die soon anyway.

 

[Totz]

I actually love the end the more I think about it.
The one thing that does bother me is the Liquid/Ocelot hypnosis thing. I always thought they were going to explain the reason for his powerful alter ego was due to the nanotech's in liquids arm and that anytime he was around foxdie they went berserk hence why he was always Liquid not ocelot around Snake.

I thought the explanation would be that since Ocelot is the son of The Sorrow, he inherited some of his father's abilities. Thus, a dead Liquid was able to possess him.

MGS4's explanation was sad... so sad...