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[Heisenberg007]

Three stooges. Send a link where the contradiction/lie is from Microsoft's acquisitions.

Even if I link it, your biases won't let you see it or accept it. Or, worse, you'll twist it to fit your narrative. So what's even the point.

 

[GHG]

Uh? Starfield is not withheld from rival consoles. It was never announced for ps.

Serious question, what do you think you're gaining in being intellectually dishonest to this degree?

 

[Gobjuduck]

Even if I link it, your biases won't let you see it or accept it. Or, worse, you'll twist it to fit your narrative. So what's even the point.

because it's already been rebuked, and you just want that falsehood to be real. Because Xbox bad

 

[Heisenberg007]

because it's already been rebuked, and you just want that falsehood to be real. Because Xbox bad

How was it debunked? Please explain. Did Microsoft not misrepresent their intention to EC about not making Zenimax games exclusive after the acquisition? And made them exclusives after the acquisition anyway?

And instead of twisting the words, just say "Yes - they misrepresented" or "No - they did not say that at all."

 

[Banjo64]

So, ZeniMax said it? Not Microsoft?

No. 'Their Zenimax EU submission' is referring to Microsoft

Uh? Starfield is not withheld from rival consoles. It was never announced for ps.

They used the term 'Zenimax titles' - not 'past Zenimax titles' or 'future Zenimax title' - they were talking about all Zenimax titles.

Plus

The EU agency found that even if Microsoft were to restrict access to ZeniMax titles, it wouldn't have a significant impact on competition because rivals wouldn't be denied access to an "essential input," and other consoles would still have a "large array" of attractive content.

Seems like the EU is cool with Xbox and doesn't agreee they were lied to.

They've made no comment as to whether they were lied to or not, they've just said they didn't care if they were or weren't withheld and it wouldn't have effected their verdict

I know reading is hard but bloody hell

 

[Banjo64]

Serious question, what do you think you're gaining in being intellectually dishonest to this degree?

Either money or a learning need is the only 2 causes IMO - and I don't mean that in a flippant or insulting way.

 

[Gobjuduck]

too many bad faith actors

Xbox didn't lie to get the deal through or to deceive the EU. I will die on this hill lol.

You guys are just latching on the same vague statement that Sony is. It can be interpreted in multiple different ways.

Even if Microsoft meant what you think it means, its weak.

 

[Heisenberg007]

too many bad faith actors

Xbox didn't lie to get the deal through or to deceive the EU. I will die on this hill lol.

You guys are just latching on the same vague statement that Sony is. It can be interpreted in multiple different ways.

Even if Microsoft meant what you think it means, its weak.

Again, so many words without saying actually anything -- just to derail the conversation. Pick one:

- Microsoft misrepresented their intention to EU about not foreclosing Zenimax games (MS said they do not have any intention to make Zenimax games exclusive)
- Microsoft did not misrepresent their intention to EU about not foreclosing Zenimax games (MS said they have intentions to make Zenimax games exclusive).

 

[Banjo64]

too many bad faith actors

Xbox didn't lie to get the deal through or to deceive the EU. I will die on this hill lol.

No one has said they lied to get the deal through. But they lied.

You guys are just latching on the same vague statement that Sony is. It can be interpreted in multiple different ways.

Even if Microsoft meant what you think it means, its weak.

Saying 'we have no incentive to withhold Zenimax titles from rival consoles' isn't a vague statement. It's actually crystal clear.

 

[laynelane]

Again, so many words without saying actually anything -- just to derail the conversation. Pick one:

- Microsoft misrepresented their intention to EU about not foreclosing Zenimax games (MS said they do not have any intention to make Zenimax games exclusive)
- Microsoft did not misrepresent their intention to EU about not foreclosing Zenimax games (MS said they have intentions to make Zenimax games exclusive).

I pick number 1.

In a complaint issued today, the FTC pointed to Microsoft's record of acquiring and using valuable gaming content to suppress competition from rival consoles, including its acquisition of ZeniMax, parent company of Bethesda Softworks (a well-known game developer). Microsoft decided to make several of Bethesda's titles including Starfield and Redfall Microsoft exclusives despite assurances it had given to European antitrust authorities that it had no incentive to withhold games from rival consoles.

"Microsoft has already shown that it can and will withhold content from its gaming rivals," said Holly Vedova, Director of the FTC's Bureau of Competition. "Today we seek to stop Microsoft from gaining control over a leading independent game studio and using it to harm competition in multiple dynamic and fast-growing gaming markets."

Source.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Some types of cheese are absolutely wank

Blue cheese, american cheese, smoked gouda, that shit in a spray, C Cheezewizz etc

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

Microsoft was intentionally vague when talking to the EU, but if I remember correctly, they said multiple things.

One thing they said was that they wouldn't have the incentive to foreclose it's rivals of Zenimax/Bethesda games. That can be read 2 ways, do they mean partial foreclosure, or entire foreclosure? Partial is so murky and vague and could mean any number of things. Where as entire foreclosure is definitive; taking all past/present/future games off competing rivals storefronts.

Microsoft said they had no incentive to do that. I can't find the document, but I don't think they specified, again, they were intentionally vague.

When asked what incentive they would need to engage in partial or complete foreclosure, Microsoft gave an answer along the lines of, a significant percentage of new users coming into the Xbox ecosystem as a result of the foreclosure would need to occur for it to make sense.

I think later on when asked about their business strategy in regards to the acquistion, Microsoft said they'd evaluate on a case by case basis what to do with future titles, but I can't remember the document all that well.

(If someone could link me the actual document where all this information is, that'd be cool, not a news story about the EU being misled)

All this to say, I get why people are bringing up the incentive thing, but it was vague and wasn't 100% clear that they weren't going to go for a selective exclusivity strategy going forward.

 

[Gobjuduck]

Saying 'we have no incentive to withhold Zenimax titles from rival consoles' isn't a vague statement. It's actually crystal clear.

Zenimax titles is vague, yea. Plus it has no timeframe. Of course they have longterm incentive. Interpret that as zenimax games that were already planned for the rival consoles AKA Skyrim 10 year, ESO, deathloop, and ghost wire Tokyo.

Starfield and redfall are not being withheld from PS, in the same way Spider-Man isn't being withheld from Xbox. They were never officially planned for the rival consoles.

The fact that the FTC and Sony are latching to such a vague sentence, shows they got shit.

 

[Banjo64]

Zenimax titles is vague, yea. Plus it has no timeframe. Of course they have longterm incentive. Interpret that as zenimax games that were already planned for the rival consoles AKA Skyrim 10 year, ESO, deathloop, and ghost wire Tokyo.

Yeah, that's the logical interpretation of course. Silly me.

 

[Clintizzle]

 

[Cheezewizz]

Surely you're not this dense. I'm just going to give you the benefit of the doubt, assume you're drunk. Because your arguments are becoming more of a rambling the more you post.

Microsoft? But you were talking as if they were not in the equation as if Bethesda didn't announced or promised the next iterations.

I was talking as if "Bethesda didn't announce or promise the next iterations" because... wait for it...

Bethesda didn't announce or promise the next iterations."

I never said anything about MS not being in the equation.

Did you forget what you were replying to already? Not so smart now are ya.

No, I clearly remember what I was talking about. I just think my comments must've went over your head. My apologies. I'll aim lower next time.

Oh that's right I remember now, you messed up your tv trying to swat a fly. NOT SMART pal.

This we can agree on. It was beyond stupid, and I feel none too smart for doing it. However, it's not relevant to our discussion here. And to be honest. I would think that after having our discussion here, that you'd feel worse than I did. I mean, I'm obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, yet I still managed to dismantle you here really says something. Especially if you weren't able to even grasp much of the conversation.

 

[Gobjuduck]

Yeah, that's the logical interpretation of course. Silly me.

If Xbox said "there is no incentive for all current and future zenimax/Bethesda titles to be withheld from PlayStation."

That would just be wrong and stupid for Xbox to claim that. But that isn't what they said. They were vague.

I interpret it as current zenimax games planned for rival consoles, because that's what they acted on.

EU refused to comment on if it was a lie or not, probably because it is so vague.

 

[Banjo64]

Microsoft was intentionally vague when talking to the EU, but if I remember correctly, they said multiple things.

One thing they said was that they wouldn't have the incentive to foreclose it's rivals of Zenimax/Bethesda games. That can be read 2 ways, do they mean partial foreclosure, or entire foreclosure? Partial is so murky and vague and could mean any number of things. Where as entire foreclosure is definitive; taking all past/present/future games off competing rivals storefronts.

Microsoft said they had no incentive to do that. I can't find the document, but I don't think they specified, again, they were intentionally vague.

When asked what incentive they would need to engage in partial or complete foreclosure, Microsoft gave an answer along the lines of, a significant percentage of new users coming into the Xbox ecosystem as a result of the foreclosure would need to occur for it to make sense.

I think later on when asked about their business strategy in regards to the acquistion, Microsoft said they'd evaluate on a case by case basis what to do with future titles, but I can't remember the document all that well.

(If someone could link me the actual document where all this information is, that'd be cool, not a news story about the EU being misled)

All this to say, I get why people are bringing up the incentive thing, but it was vague and wasn't 100% clear that they weren't going to go for a selective exclusivity strategy going forward.

Appreciate the well thought out reply.

As you point out there is nuance because Microsoft made contradictory statements within their own submissions and have left things vague in certain spots.

That being said, that's a choice by Microsoft's legal team who would have poured over the wording of every element of the submission. So it's still intentional in my opinion, and with the aim of obfuscating and misleading the regulators.

Which takes me back to the 'akshually that's technically not a lie' meme that I posted earlier, because it is still a lie.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

If Xbox said "there is no incentive for all current and future zenimax/Bethesda titles to be withheld from PlayStation."

That would just be wrong and stupid for Xbox to claim that. But that isn't what they said. They were vague.

I interpret it as current zenimax games, because that's what they acted on.

EU refused to comment on if it was a lie or not, probably because it is so vague.

EU: "Do you have incentive to engage in a forclosure strategy

MS: "No"

Where are you interpreting current zenimax games here?

 

[Cheezewizz]

Some types of cheese are absolutely wank

Blue cheese, american cheese, smoked gouda, that shit in a spray, C Cheezewizz etc

This coming from someone who's first name here is ass.

You should focus more on making an actual point, and less on trolling.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This coming from someone who's first name here is ass.

You should focus more on making an actual point, and less on trolling.

My ass smells sublime

Bad cheese will forever smell rank

 

[Banjo64]

This coming from someone who's first name here is ass.

You should focus more on making an actual point, and less on trolling.

You don't like ass? Are you a monk or just repressed?

 

[Heisenberg007]

EU: "Do you have incentive to engage in a forclosure strategy

MS: "No"

Where are you interpreting current zenimax games here?

He is arguing in bad faith and just plain trolling. Let him be.

I asked him to be more specific and pick a line so I can respond accordingly and even surface receipts.

Again, so many words without saying actually anything -- just to derail the conversation. Pick one:

- Microsoft misrepresented their intention to EU about not foreclosing Zenimax games (MS said they do not have any intention to make Zenimax games exclusive)
- Microsoft did not misrepresent their intention to EU about not foreclosing Zenimax games (MS said they have intentions to make Zenimax games exclusive).

He ignores that (because that'll actually lead to a meaningful conversation) and continues trolling on the side. Ignore him.

 

[Cheezewizz]

My ass smells sublime

Bad cheese will forever smell rank

I have no idea what your ass smells like. Let me ask Banjo64...

 

[Banjo64]

I have no idea what your ass smells like. Let me ask Banjo64...

Smells great mate, like fresh bread.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I have no idea what your ass smells like. Let me ask Banjo64...

Feel free to give it a whif. I don't allow monopolies when it comes to gifts from god

 

[Cheezewizz]

You don't like ass? Are you a monk or just repressed?

You like his ass then I take it? Good for you, though I doubt he's going to give you a reach around for defending him here.

 

[Pelta88]

You know what's amazing? We've been having a constructive debate. Largely constructive

But since the CMA rumour broke I'm seeing a lot of new faces who seem to be here to troll. Coincidence?

 

[Gobjuduck]

Where are you interpreting current zenimax games here?

I'm interpreting Xbox's actions/choices after the acquisition. All current planned titles still came to rival consoles.

Starfield and redfall were far off enough to not make Xbox's statement false.

It's too vague to judge on words alone.

 

[Banjo64]

You like his ass then I take it? Good for you, though I doubt he's going to give you a reach around for defending him here.

Ass is actually a woman - the more you know.

And I've gotten a reach around for much less so never rule it out.

 

[Cheezewizz]

Feel free to give it a whif. I don't allow monopolies when it comes to gifts from god

Just because demigod gives you a shot to the throat, while Banjo is taking you from the back... Doesn't mean he's an actual god, or it's an actual gift.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'm interpreting Xbox's actions/choices after the acquisition. All current planned titles still came to rival consoles.

Starfield and redfall were far off enough to not make Xbox's statement false.

It's too vague to judge on words alone.

Almost like what they said and what they're doing don't match up

 

[Gobjuduck]

He is arguing in bad faith and just plain trolling. Let him be.

I should find a chick licking an Xbox controller for my profile. So I can match your level.

 

[Cheezewizz]

Ass is actually a woman - the more you know.

So you've been told. There's probably a very phallic reason why "she" insists you keep it to the ass.

And I've gotten a reach around for much less so never rule it out.

Duly noted.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

So you've been told. There's probably a very phallic reason why "she" insists you keep it to the ass.

Duly noted.

Please don't assume my pronouns stinky cheese

 

[Gobjuduck]

Almost like what they said and what they're doing don't match up

They are doing what they said they would be doing lol.

The "lie" you guys are scrutinizing is an unimportant statement about incentives.

They fucking spent billions and have zero incentives? Like what? Of course they have incentives to turn future Bethesda games console exclusive. No one believed they wouldn't except delusional blue boys.

 

[Banjo64]

I should find a chick licking an Xbox controller for my profile. So I can match your level.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

They are doing what they said they would be doing lol

And where did they say they'd be making the games exclusive before it closed?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Again, so many words without saying actually anything -- just to derail the conversation. Pick one:

- Microsoft misrepresented their intention to EU about not foreclosing Zenimax games (MS said they do not have any intention to make Zenimax games exclusive)
- Microsoft did not misrepresent their intention to EU about not foreclosing Zenimax games (MS said they have intentions to make Zenimax games exclusive).

Microsoft played a poor hand.

They made zenimax games exclusive, because they didn't have anything else, but the also had the opportunity to get COD.

They should have announced the day they announced the acquisition that starfield and elders scrolls were coming to PS5.

They walked themselves into a corner. Something that Sony didn't do with bungie by giving them full autonomy, allowing them to make an even larger purchase at a later date without heat coming down on them from regulators.

Sony still has 10 billion dollars for M&A (though not all of it may end up going to SIE) but that means they could buy basically any publisher out there without additional financing except for the bigs (Nintendo, EA, T2). So you have to ask yourself, what company gives sony something that they don't have right now and would have trouble getting? What company would it be easy to integrate into SIE or PlayStation Studios (close relationship already)? What company has significant transmedia IP opportunities?


I think Kadokawa/FromSoftware checks a lot of those boxes. I think Capcom also checks a lot of those boxes. Sega less so.

 

[Cheezewizz]

You know what's amazing? We've been having a constructive debate. Largely constructive

But since the CMA rumour broke I'm seeing a lot of new faces who seem to be here to troll. Coincidence?

Coincidence? Not likely.
Your memory being compromised due to some long forgotten head injury? Possible.

 

[Gobjuduck]

And where did they say they'd be making the games exclusive before it closed?

Don't think they did. I remember them being very vague then, that's where this confusion comes from.

You don't spend billions to acquire studios to make games for your competitor forever, unless you state verbatim that you will and sign agreements.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

They are doing what they said they would be doing lol.

Don't think they did.

Which is it? Did they say what they'd be doing or didn't they?

 

[Cheezewizz]

And where did they say they'd be making the games exclusive before it closed?

The part where they said something like "a significant percentage of new users coming into the Xbox ecosystem as a result of the foreclosure would need to occur for it to make sense." when asked what kind of incentive would be needed in order to make them exclusive.

 

[Gobjuduck]

Sony still has 10 billion dollars for M&A (though not all of it may end up going to SIE) but that means they could buy basically any publisher out there without additional financing except for the bigs

Sonys complaints towards xbox's big acquisitions would just be directed back at sony if they tried acquiring anything big.

If Sony wants to make some acquisitions they should sign the 10 year deal and pull back.

Which is it? Did they say what they'd be doing or didn't they?

Those statements arnt contradictory dude. Xbox is doing what they said right after the acquisition, you brought it to before. We've established that Xbox was vague before.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

"a significant percentage of new users coming into the Xbox ecosystem as a result of the foreclosure would need to occur for it to make sense." when asked what kind of incentive would be needed in order to make them exclusive.

Oh, you mean the incentive that they concluded would be highly improbable

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Those statements arnt contradictory dude.

Yes, they are lmao.

 

[MasterCornholio]

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sonys complaints towards xbox's big acquisitions would just be directed back at sony if they tried acquiring anything big.

If Sony wants to make some acquisitions they should sign the 10 year deal and pull back.


Those statements arnt contradictory dude. Xbox is doing what they said right after the acquisition, you brought it to before. We've established that Xbox was vague before.

Big difference between buying a publisher for 70 billion and one for under 10.

They won't need any remedies to do so. I think they could even buy T2 without remedies, but that would be up in the air. I'm sure Microsoft and EA would complain.

But please don't act like trying to buy the biggest publisher in gaming is equivalent to anything else... The only thing Sony could do other than trying to buy Activision (for less) after this deal falls through would be trying to buy/merge with Nintendo. Which would be rightfully blocked as well.

 

[Cheezewizz]

Oh, you mean the incentive that they concluded would be highly improbable

Improbable? Surely they didn't use that word. That would make your argument weaker than it already is. But no. I believe they were referring to the current incentives at that time.

If it'll make you feel better, I can just agree with you. Whether they lied, misconstrued, spoke vaguely, etc... or not doesn't matter to me. Whatever it is, it was 100% worth it for all the whining, bitching, and pitiful port begging that's happened as a result.

You think big bad scary MS mislead regulators? Sure, fine, whatever. Cry more.

 

[Gobjuduck]

Yes, they are lmao.

When I said "they are doing what they said they would be doing" I meant after the closure when they had that round table talk.

You brought it back to before, which was a vague time for legal reasons. You made it contradictory out of confusion.

Big difference between buying a publisher for 70 billion and one for under 10.

The Bethesda/zenimax acquisition was below 10 BILLION and that faced scrutiny. Sony would seem very hypocritical.