Support NeoGAF

[HeisenbergFX4]

I wanna make it clear - if you're rooting for this deal to go through cause it means all of ATVI's back-catalog and future releases now becomes GP day 1, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You're a consumer - trying to get an outcome that works best for you is exactly what you should be doing. Could there be long-term consequences? Absolutely, but its not like long-term consequences has ever stopped anyone from doing anything really.

The only reasonI want it to go through just to replay some of the old COD campaigns via GP

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Yeah I’m fully aware of the sales consequences. I’m living proof of that. Goes for Xbox and Netflix and Spotify etc.
But I like it, saves me money and makes me give new experiences a try.
I’ve easily played 3x as many games on XSX as I’ve played on PS5 and I’ve payed $0 for the games on Xbox and maybe $400 for the games on PS5.

I keep seeing this stuff...and I just don't get it.

The GP model, while having its benefits, is not the only way to do something like that. And there is proof of that, its called the PS+ model. The ony difference between the two models are day1 releases.

Thats it.

With PS+, if you decide to spend as little money as possible, you wi still end up having access to a great vast number f games, spanning first-party and third-party. And I dare say it would be even easier for third-party games to end up there because they have already gone through a 1-2yr period where they were only available to buy. Absolutely nothing stops MS from adopting a similar system. Games get their usual run-in on the market, and when sales slow down, they end up as rentals on the services. Everybody wins.

But that is not what MS wants, MS wants the priority to be GP, wants that people don't even need to buy games at all, but instead, just pay for GP and that's it. Why do you think that is? And the byproduct of that is that they have to make GP something you have to be stupid to not have. That's where Activision comes in, but I don't even have a problem with Activision and COD, my problem, is that I know if this deal goes through, it would just be the start. Technically not even the start cause its is the second major such purchase they have done.

And I rue the day or the period where MS is the biggest payer or the authority in the gaming market. And the people saying this is all ok now and is good for them now.... are basically skipping and singing their way into such a future. And I don't understand why anyone would willingly want to give that much power to anyone company... especially when that company is MS.

I really don't get it, is it that people really don't see just how bad GP will ultimately be for the industry as a whole? Or is it they don't just care, are cheap or short-sighted or a combination of any and or all of that three?

 

[Yoboman]

And all the anime stuff

Yeah that falls under licensed stuff

Kind of strange to have that sort of valuation without owning the properties

 

[Thirty7ven]

Just out of interest, who is getting screwed over here?

Nintendo gets cod, nvidia get all xbox games and Sony get cod for ten years or 15 I saw someone say? We will be at the start of ps7 before cod is potentially lost to anyone. Will cod still be around in 15 years and be as important or big as it is now?

So who gets screwed over?

As it is right now? Yeah it just sounds like a bunch of revenue switching hands. without the ability to go out there and make COD exclusive what can happen?Maybe MS sells a few extra million consoles because of COD on gamepass. GP on PC gets a good boost because of Blizzard.

Hopefully it lights a fire under Sony too and that’s about it.

 

[DenchDeckard]

The only reasonI want it to go through just to replay some of the old COD campaigns via GP

Yup, me too. And other games like diablo IV. I haven't played the new cod campaign either as I thought I'd just wait.

Always enjoy a good cod campaign.

 

[Yoboman]

The only reasonI want it to go through just to replay some of the old COD campaigns via GP

Various COD games have been on PS Plus for years

 

[DenchDeckard]

As it is right now? Yeah it just sounds like a bunch of revenue switching hands. without the ability to go out there and make COD exclusive what can happen?Maybe MS sells a few extra million consoles because of COD on gamepass. GP on PC gets a good boost because of Blizzard.

Hopefully it lights a fire under Sony too and that’s about it.

It almost sounds like the deal will actually increase competitiveness within the market, allowing more people to access cod and more games on nvidia and Nintendo platforms.

Plus it will make Sony hungrier to develop a cod beater or some different games.

I get more games on game pass and that's all I care about but I genuinely don't see how it is bad for anyone?

All the games launch on even more platforms for at least 10 to 15 years. I can't see a negative right now?

 

[adamsapple]

Just out of interest, who is getting screwed over here?

Nintendo gets cod, nvidia get all xbox games and Sony get cod for ten years or 15 I saw someone say? We will be at the start of ps7 before cod is potentially lost to anyone. Will cod still be around in 15 years and be as important or big as it is now?

So who gets screwed over?

No one gets screwed, and potentially more people get access to the CoD franchise than have it right now.

 

[Varteras]

Thats great - as a consumer, you should always be looking out for your own best interests. The industry and the costs it takes to produce the games that they do is not your responsibility. If the bulk of consumers opt and say "We only want games delivered via GP (or some service like it)" thats got nothing to do with you.

There are loads of fiscal consequences and reshuffling of budget, development priorities, and even design direction that comes with taking on a subscription model like GP has, but again, that isn't something you should ever concern yourself with. There are others who do concern themselves with this stuff because its a distribution model that impacts the type of experiences we do get to make, and by extension, that consumers will get to enjoy. And thats perfectly okay.

I wanna make it clear - if you're rooting for this deal to go through cause it means all of ATVI's back-catalog and future releases now becomes GP day 1, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You're a consumer - trying to get an outcome that works best for you is exactly what you should be doing. Could there be long-term consequences? Absolutely, but its not like long-term consequences has ever stopped anyone from doing anything really.

Absolutely. No one should be attacked or downplayed for the stance they take on this matter. If your only concern is short-term and the value you get from the money you're currently spending, that is no less valid than someone not wanting to participate in that market because they're afraid of future consequences. This is how a market evolves and figures itself out. Gaming probably won't look the same in 20 years, but then few things ever do stay the same that long. Gaming today certainly isn't what it was 20 years ago. Depending on who you ask it's better or worse. Just how things go.

 

[Gone]

The GP model, while having its benefits, is not the only way to do something like that. And there is proof of that, its called the PS+ model. The ony difference between the two models are day1 releases.

Thats it.

Yeah, the 70$ day one games, nothing big about that. You can spend 280$ for 4 games or you can get those games with 200+ more for half that price.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Yeah, the 70$ day one games, nothing big about that. You can spend 280$ for 4 games or you can get those games with 200+ more for half that price.

Or you can wait one year and get them anyways at half the price on the service? Did you read at all?

oooooh.... sorry my bad, I get it now.... Ok... carry on.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It almost sounds like the deal will actually increase competitiveness within the market, allowing more people to access cod and more games on nvidia and Nintendo platforms.

Plus it will make Sony hungrier to develop a cod beater or some different games.

I get more games on game pass and that's all I care about but I genuinely don't see how it is bad for anyone?

All the games launch on even more platforms for at least 10 to 15 years. I can't see a negative right now?

I don’t know about increasing competition, it increases MS’s revenue sure. Makes competing sub services on PC doa, nobody will be able to come up with one on the level. Imo Steam will medium term be under pressure, MS is coming for the PC market imo

Console wise we will see how it changes consumers habits and if it pushes for further consolidation. You don’t know how good you had it until you look around and it’s just a bunch of trash being made to feed subscription services. Nobody knows.

It can be as unpredictable as a bunch of money is reinvested in opening new studios that create the next big IPs. Maybe it’s even bad for MS, as managing all those studios working on completely different tech leads to delays and further mismanagement.

 

[Hendrick's]

I have no idea at this point. But maybe I'm retarded.

 

[sainraja]

Yeah, the 70$ day one games, nothing big about that. You can spend 280$ for 4 games or you can get those games with 200+ more for half that price.

You say games as if they are all the same and you can easily swap them between the two systems lol. The day 1 games promised on Game Pass aren't going to include Sony games or Nintendo games. You are only getting first-party Xbox games guaranteed and anything MS is willing to pay money for launching on GS, which also applies to Sony. They can and I believe have paid for games to launch on PS+.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

It almost sounds like the deal will actually increase competitiveness within the market, allowing more people to access cod and more games on nvidia and Nintendo platforms.

Plus it will make Sony hungrier to develop a cod beater or some different games.

I get more games on game pass and that's all I care about but I genuinely don't see how it is bad for anyone?

All the games launch on even more platforms for at least 10 to 15 years. I can't see a negative right now?

Do you really think so?

ike you ready don't see how its bad for everyone?

 

[DenchDeckard]

Do you really think so?

ike you ready don't see how its bad for everyone?

How is it bad for everyone?

You mean in 10 to 15 years?

 

[Nothing1234]

It’s fascinating how Microsoft have convinced people that buying Bethesda and Activision Blizzard King is perfectly fine and better for competitiveness of the industry. Why not EA and Capcom next?

 

[Gone]

Or you can wait one year and get them anyways at half the price on the service? Did you read at all?

oooooh.... sorry my bad, I get it now.... Ok... carry on.

Or you can get them day one without waiting.

 

[Gone]

You say games as if they are all the same and you can easily swap them between the two systems lol. The day 1 games promised on Game Pass aren't going to include Sony games or Nintendo games. You are only getting first-party Xbox games guaranteed and anything MS is willing to pay money for launching on GS, which also applies to Sony. They can and I believe have paid for games to launch on PS+.

He was comparing Gamepass with PS Plus.
I didn't say anything about swapping anything.

 

[HoofHearted]

34 pages in a day and a half... fucking hell..

 

[Astray]

Am I tripping or has 15 pages passed already? Since yesterday?

Anything new?

We've been approaching warp speed since the CMA provisional findings lmao.

 

[ChiefDada]

It almost sounds like the deal will actually increase competitiveness within the market, allowing more people to access cod and more games on nvidia and Nintendo platforms.

Plus it will make Sony hungrier to develop a cod beater or some different games.

I get more games on game pass and that's all I care about but I genuinely don't see how it is bad for anyone?

All the games launch on even more platforms for at least 10 to 15 years. I can't see a negative right now?

From a consumer perspective, my only negative would be Microsoft's long history of mismanaging it's current studios. If they struggle to produce with the immense financial resources, great talent, and IPs they currently have, why should we believe they'll do any better with Activision/Blizzard?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

How is it bad for everyone?

You mean in 10 to 15 years?

ok.....

This is a classic case of a bait and switch.

Do you see that 10-15yrs? That's the bait. You see that, make games accessible/cheap for everyone? that's the bait.

 

[Fess]

I keep seeing this stuff...and I just don't get it.

The GP model, while having its benefits, is not the only way to do something like that. And there is proof of that, its called the PS+ model. The ony difference between the two models are day1 releases.

Thats it.

With PS+, if you decide to spend as little money as possible, you wi still end up having access to a great vast number f games, spanning first-party and third-party. And I dare say it would be even easier for third-party games to end up there because they have already gone through a 1-2yr period where they were only available to buy. Absolutely nothing stops MS from adopting a similar system. Games get their usual run-in on the market, and when sales slow down, they end up as rentals on the services. Everybody wins.

But that is not what MS wants, MS wants the priority to be GP, wants that people don't even need to buy games at all, but instead, just pay for GP and that's it. Why do you think that is? And the byproduct of that is that they have to make GP something you have to be stupid to not have. That's where Activision comes in, but I don't even have a problem with Activision and COD, my problem, is that I know if this deal goes through, it would just be the start. Technically not even the start cause its is the second major such purchase they have done.

And I rue the day or the period where MS is the biggest payer or the authority in the gaming market. And the people saying this is all ok now and is good for them now.... are basically skipping and singing their way into such a future. And I don't understand why anyone would willingly want to give that much power to anyone company... especially when that company is MS.

I really don't get it, is it that people really don't see just how bad GP will ultimately be for the industry as a whole? Or is it they don't just care, are cheap or short-sighted or a combination of any and or all of that three?

I subscribe to PS+ Premium too and I use it the same way, played lots of games I would never have played if I had to buy them. It’s great.

Difference is, as you say, that Sony don’t do day 1 releases yet, which means I’ve usually already played their big 1st party PS+ releases, like HFW this month. And they don’t have save and license syncing with PC, which means I have to choose where to play if I don’t want to double dip and juggle multiple saves.

And I’ve seen the industry correct itself from bad ideas in the past. No concern here.

 

[PaintTinJr]

It almost sounds like the deal will actually increase competitiveness within the market, allowing more people to access cod and more games on nvidia and Nintendo platforms.

Plus it will make Sony hungrier to develop a cod beater or some different games.

I get more games on game pass and that's all I care about but I genuinely don't see how it is bad for anyone?

All the games launch on even more platforms for at least 10 to 15 years. I can't see a negative right now?

Sony is a tiny value company compared to PC OS monopolist Microsoft, and Microsoft have now shown from their own numbers that gamepass damages game sales. PlayStation is a big money maker for Sony by selling the game, and CoD/DLC/MTX and PS+ related subs is a big money maker from game sales for PlayStation.

MSFT's proposed acquisition of ATVI and putting CoD on gamepass in 3year's time erodes Sony's future income and profit margin for PlayStation heavily. It is not like Sony can throw away $3billion for a maybe acquisition like it is chump change, when they are earning less than half that from CoD each year and that's big money for them. Foreclosing the gaming company 70-80% of Europe/UK is choosing - for high-tech gaming - isn't good for gaming or competition,

 

[Baki]

Yeah, the 70$ day one games, nothing big about that. You can spend 280$ for 4 games or you can get those games with 200+ more for half that price.

GP is a rental system, you don't get perpetual access to the games, and MS only gives you a 4 weeks heads up for when a game is leaving GP. That's quite different from game ownership.

 

[demigod]

I’m surprised phil spencer didn’t tweet feeling good about the closed hearing.

 

[SneakersSO]

And I’ve seen the industry correct itself from bad ideas in the past. No concern here.

I do wanna add to this, with the caveat that everything I said about consumer self-interest still holds true.

The reality of this situation is that MS isn't pursuing their current business direction with GP because its healthier for the industry in the short or long-term; they are doing this to displace the market first and foremost. Due to the financial resources MS has at their disposal, they can essentially keep burning cash at the pyre for as long as it takes to achieve the displacement result they are seeking, primarily to erode the value proposition of full priced games, which is one of the chief value propositions of their primary competitor within the console space.

They can do this because unlike dumping, it isn't actually illegal to undermine a market this heavily with financial resources if they choose to do so. Its completely illegal for MS to just buy 100 million Xbox Series devices and hand them out, but its perfectly fine if they just give out any and all games for free within their ecosystem.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Looking at the various regulator positions, you have to wonder if they are working in tandem to aid each other's potential legal fights with MSFT. The CMA extracting that MSFT want CoD and won't divest it massively strength's the FTC's position to expose false narratives MSFT have floated through the process.

And you have to wonder if the CMA's demands of MSFT to approve the deal - without actually blocking -, mean that they don't need to move forward - until MSFT proposes something to meet their demands - effectively eliminating any scenario where they have to block the deal at this stage and then have MSFT use legal means to try and appeal the blocked deal. Failing to appease the CMA's demands before using UK courts to overturn an effective block seems like an even smaller strategy of success in the UK (IMHO). I very much doubt any UK court will be interested approving the deal if MSFT haven't first been able to show they were prepared to comply with the regulatory body's stipulations, first, to move the conversation to be about the regulatory decision.

 

[demigod]

Dang what did i miss, another warrior Punished Miku having a meltdown? When the deal gets blocked i can see them doing seppuku.

 

[vj27]

Considering there are only 4 million active Xbox console users per month (plus 3 million on PC) in the EU, there would be a lot of customers that get screwed over if this deal were to go through as Microsoft originally envisaged.



See above. My statement was from the perspective of if there weren't any regulatory intervention, because some people seem to think they shouldn't (and don't need to) get involved in this case.

… but there is… or at least will be, so who?

It’s starting to seem like a win win for everyone involved. I don’t doubt they won’t make stuff like idk Diablo 5 or something exclusive (simply because the FTC and CMA genuinely don’t care about those games which is weird to me) but regarding COD it’s seeming like a win win scenario so far.

 

[SneakersSO]

It almost sounds like the deal will actually increase competitiveness within the market, allowing more people to access cod and more games on nvidia and Nintendo platforms.

Plus it will make Sony hungrier to develop a cod beater or some different games.

I get more games on game pass and that's all I care about but I genuinely don't see how it is bad for anyone?

All the games launch on even more platforms for at least 10 to 15 years. I can't see a negative right now?

1) Sony was already in full development of games that are near or within the wheelhouse of CoD, and this occurred before this deal ever came to light.

2) The growth of GP can be seen to directly affect the types of games that can be developed in the future should GP grow to become a market-leading service, much like Netflix has irreversibly changed the types of shows that are produced, their release cadence, their respective budgets, etc.

3) Again, there is nothing stopping any of CoD or MS from releasing onto the platforms that are currently slated to get their releases should this deal go through. None.

You don't have to care about any of these things, honestly, but lets not sit here and pretend that this deal does not have far reaching implications for the industry as a whole, because it does.

 

[RickMasters]

The only reasonI want it to go through just to replay some of the old COD campaigns via GP

This..... And Tony hawks....

 

[ChiefDada]

I’m surprised phil spencer didn’t tweet feeling good about the closed hearing.

Holy shit, I guess that means the deal is going through!

 

[Gone]

GP is a rental system, you don't get perpetual access to the games, and MS only gives you a 4 weeks heads up for when a game is leaving GP. That's quite different from game ownership.

You have the option to buy and "own" those games at any given time, tho.

Again, he was comparing Gamepass with PS Plus.

 

[The_Mike]

I have to press the power button on my xbox which is emotionally painful for me

When Ass of Can Whooping sees the Xbox logo to play cod

 

[demigod]

Yeah, the 70$ day one games, nothing big about that. You can spend 280$ for 4 games or you can get those games with 200+ more for half that price.

More like spending $360 and only getting halo infinite and forza horizon 5. And the best thing is you don’t get to keep those games.

 

[adamsapple]

More like spending $360 and only getting halo infinite and forza horizon 5. And the best thing is you don’t get to keep those games.

Why stop at $360, why not $594 and you only get Flight Sim and don't keep it

 

[The_Mike]

More like spending $360 and only getting halo infinite and forza horizon 5. And the best thing is you don’t get to keep those games.

Can someone explain what's being referred to here?

 

[JLB]

Wait, what? So MS should allow ps plus on xbox?

yup.

 

[JLB]

So I guess the smart virgins around here, so worried, so concerned about monopolies might propose a solution for the 96/4 distributionon the Japanese market. Cant sleep at night thinking how worried and concerned you should be suffering every day of your existence.

 

[Pollux]

The only reasonI want it to go through just to replay some of the old COD campaigns via GP

Same here - I've really wanted to replay Advanced Warfare and Infinite Warfare but not enough to go buy them on Steam. Throw them on GP and I'll be thrilled.

 

[JLB]

More like spending $360 and only getting halo infinite and forza horizon 5. And the best thing is you don’t get to keep those games.

Jesus, I have spent thousands of dollars on cheese burgers for a lifetime and what I have? NOTHING!!!! I got rubbed all this time.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[HoofHearted]

<…>

And you have to wonder if the CMA's demands of MSFT to approve the deal - ...

 

[ZehDon]

... Do you see that 10-15yrs? That's the bait. You see that, make games accessible/cheap for everyone? that's the bait.

At some point, it's no longer a multi-decade long global corporate conspiracy with nefarious end goals, and it's just... the business model. We're getting pretty close to this.

 

[The_Mike]

Nothing new under the sun.
We all know that Sony has exclusive rights to call of duty, and it would end soon.

 

[Topher]

Nothing new under the sun.
We all know that Sony has exclusive rights to call of duty, and it would end soon.

Marketing rights

 

[ManaByte]

Nothing new under the sun.
We all know that Sony has exclusive rights to call of duty, and it would end soon.

People weee trying to say that no one knew when the marketing deal ended and people claiming it was 2024 were just making that up. MS confirmed it now.

 

[gothmog]

Based on this high pressure sales tactic and the fact that we've heard nothing about the actual hearings I'm assuming yesterday didn't go so well for Brad.