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[feynoob]

Before we go anywhere, I want to say something.

Anyone who thinks MS will/should leave the UK Incase the CMA blocks the deal, needs to check reality.

MS will lose more than what they spent on Activision, if they decide to do that. Their stock will crash, and other countries might sanction MS because of their behavior.

Then you have the EU which will try and break up MS. They will also have to deal with FTC in the US.

To put it simply, that decision will harm MS compared to UK.

People need to learn the consequences of actions like these.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Ah, yes. I forgot that if Activision isn't bought by Microsoft, it will be shut down because of how much they struggle financially.

Before we go anywhere, I want to say something.

Anyone who thinks MS will/should leave the UK Incase the CMA blocks the deal, needs to check reality.

MS will lose more than what they spent on Activision, if they decide to do that. Their stock will crash, and other countries might sanction MS because of their behavior.

Then you have the EU which will try and break up MS. They will also have to deal with FTC in the US.

To put it simply, that decision will harm MS compared to UK.

People need to learn the consequences of actions like these.

Also why I believe the rumor of Microsoft threatening the CMA is false. The CMA knows that Microsoft won't abandon the UK and threats like that would be empty.

Microsoft will just have to make concessions the CMA wants.

 

[Topher]

The only difference is MS buys Ferraris and Sony buys electric scooters.

And that's the crux of it. Console warrior rhetoric is at the core.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I already explained how I, a gamer, benefit from this. And of course I care about Xbox as a business, it’s more than games. It’s their hardware, their services, their vision. And most importantly, their games.

But hey, have fun living under a rock where studios are going to be built from the ground up and all of these studios wanting to be bought are forced to close down and funnel out into other jobs.

did you get the additional $3?

 

[Three]

The point is that saying "I have no incentive to do X" is not the same thing as saying "I will not do X". It's a very basic distinction.

Obviously, these regulatory boards are better at discerning vague legalese than Gafers.

I could say "I have no incentive to buy a PS5", I could totally still do it tomorrow though. There were no legal declarations that Zenimax games would remain multi-plat, either from MS or in requests by the regulators.

I know the difference but it doesn't mean you didn't make that statement or that it wasn't misleading.
Which goes back to what I said and you replied to

"The fact that no remedies were made I think made MS' decision change and they would have maintained that assurance if they faced any pushback."

If you told your wife you're taking $500 from the joint account and have no interest in a PS5. If your wife said you can take money out because she doesn't care, would that statement not be misleading if straight after you took the money out you went out and spent it on a PS5? you didn't make a declaration that you won't get a PS5, just that you have no interest in it.

2 days after the deal went through they made the games exclusive despite saying they have no incentive to. Legally there is nothing wrong with that because they had the OK anyway but that doesn’t mean you didn't say something misleading there to get a feel for how your wife would respond while alleviating a reason she might object to the withdrawal.

If your wife said take the money out but "don't buy a PS5" (concessions on your spending) you probably would have maintained the idea that's not what your intention was for the money anyway because you have no interest in a PS5.

 

[SportsFan581]

its a cost and it still might work out, the maths would be back of the notepad stuff but i very much doubt it really works out,

Quick maths; correct my numbers and calculations.
- 5 billion lost revenue from all of MS in UK + 0.8bn lost revenue from ABK in the UK (lets say 6b); was it 5bn MS total revenue in the UK?
- ABK makes ~8 billion globally so in terns of net revenue they (MS) maybe slightly up $2 billion annually off a 70billion purchase (~9billion one-off win fall) so roughly ~3% ROI (minus the lost in value of the asset over the length that MS has ABK as an asset) on the purchase
- the question is whether you are going to be able to find much better opportunities than 3%? IMO yes.

I think the bigger issue would the fall-out with the CMA and other regulators.

It's such an over-the-top scenario to begin with, but if something like that were to happen it would probably be more from the position of thinking that the ban/block wouldn't hold. Making the lost revenue from the UK operations temporary, while the revenue gained from ABK would be ongoing indefinitely. Plus, there would have to be some legal angle to it, for them to even consider it. Either some shift in leverage that they thought they could maximize or a change in the court or proceeding or something that they were hedging their bets on. Otherwise you'd just challenge the result via the standard means. Total cost would then be loss of revenue over the time period in question and the cost of the fines, etc.

 

[SportsFan581]

I know the difference but it doesn't mean you didn't make that statement or that it wasn't misleading.
Which goes back to what I said and you replied to

"The fact that no remedies were made I think made MS' decision change and they would have maintained that assurance if they faced any pushback."

If you told your wife you're taking $500 from the joint account and have no interest in a PS5. If your wife said you can take money out because she doesn't care, would that statement not be misleading if straight after you took the money out you went out and spent it on a PS5? you didn't make a declaration that you won't get a PS5, just that you have no interest in it.

2 days after the deal went through they made the games exclusive despite saying they have no incentive to. Legally there is nothing wrong with that because they had the OK anyway but that doesn’t mean you didn't say something misleading there to get a feel for how your wife would respond while alleviating a reason she might object to the withdrawal.

If your wife said take the money out but "don't buy a PS5" (concessions on your spending) you probably would have maintained the idea that's not what your intention was for the money anyway because you have no interest in a PS5.

They never mislead the parties in question though, everyone there understood what was being said. MS apparently mislead some gafers, but that isn't very consequential to anything.

My point was that they never reneged on promises to a regulatory body, however they choose to formulate their legalese for good PR spin doesn't change that.

 

[ChiefDada]

Ultimately it wont get to that, because MS has them by the balls. MS can survive without the UK, but the UK cant without MS. How would it look if MS says we're pulling Windows, Office,Azure, COD from the UK. They dont have to do it, just say it. Brad Smith said they're currently using the nice guy strategy, but be prepared for fireworks if the CMA continues with this theatre.

 

[SportsFan581]

I know the difference but it doesn't mean you didn't make that statement or that it wasn't misleading.
Which goes back to what I said and you replied to

"The fact that no remedies were made I think made MS' decision change and they would have maintained that assurance if they faced any pushback."

If you told your wife you're taking $500 from the joint account and have no interest in a PS5. If your wife said you can take money out because she doesn't care, would that statement not be misleading if straight after you took the money out you went out and spent it on a PS5? you didn't make a declaration that you won't get a PS5, just that you have no interest in it.

2 days after the deal went through they made the games exclusive despite saying they have no incentive to. Legally there is nothing wrong with that because they had the OK anyway but that doesn’t mean you didn't say something misleading there to get a feel for how your wife would respond while alleviating a reason she might object to the withdrawal.

If your wife said take the money out but "don't buy a PS5" (concessions on your spending) you probably would have maintained the idea that's not what your intention was for the money anyway because you have no interest in a PS5.

My bigger hangup here is why she cares whether or not I purchased a PS5 with $500 that was viewed as disposable. Leash would be a little too tight I think.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Ultimately it wont get to that, because MS has them by the balls. MS can survive without the UK, but the UK cant without MS. How would it look if MS says we're pulling Windows, Office,Azure, COD from the UK. They dont have to do it, just say it. Brad Smith said they're currently using the nice guy strategy, but be prepared for fireworks if the CMA continues with this theatre.

Jezz?...is this you?

 

[BeardGawd]

And that's the crux of it. Console warrior rhetoric is at the core.

Projection at it's finest.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

And that's the crux of it. Console warrior rhetoric is at the core.

Has nothing to do with warrior rhetoric, it’s just the fact of the matter thus far. Hell, it’s the same excuse PS gamers here use when excusing Sonys recent acquisitions. “but Sony buys such smaller studios!!!” Hell, if I cared enough to go through your post history I’d probably find you saying it

Though I am forgetting about Bungie, another studio Sony grew from the ground up organically. That was a huge grab.

Edit, and MS has certainly acquired a couple smaller studios. So I guess they aren’t all Ferraris. But the only ones people care about are Zeni and ABK, PS gamers throwing fits about those. Meanwhile Sony buys Bungie and a majority of Xbox users here are just like

 

[MasterCornholio]

Projection at it's finest.

He did say Sony buys electric scooters. Which I don't agree with given what some of their devs are producing.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Projection at it's finest.

Exactly.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I know the difference but it doesn't mean you didn't make that statement or that it wasn't misleading.
Which goes back to what I said and you replied to

"The fact that no remedies were made I think made MS' decision change and they would have maintained that assurance if they faced any pushback."

If you told your wife you're taking $500 from the joint account and have no interest in a PS5. If your wife said you can take money out because she doesn't care, would that statement not be misleading if straight after you took the money out you went out and spent it on a PS5? you didn't make a declaration that you won't get a PS5, just that you have no interest in it.

2 days after the deal went through they made the games exclusive despite saying they have no incentive to. Legally there is nothing wrong with that because they had the OK anyway but that doesn’t mean you didn't say something misleading there to get a feel for how your wife would respond while alleviating a reason she might object to the withdrawal.

If your wife said take the money out but "don't buy a PS5" (concessions on your spending) you probably would have maintained the idea that's not what your intention was for the money anyway because you have no interest in a PS5.

As far as I understood it and is the part that "the EU didn't care " brigade keep missing is that the FTC were influenced by that public statement to the EU. So despite the EU not being bothered, the FTC retrospectively do care that the games like Starfield went from being multi-plat development with no incentive to be exclusive, to being exclusive Xbox immediately after the deal closed.

The difference is very subtle, but it is one that will hamper this deal closing IMO - with the CMA and FTC.

 

[BeardGawd]

He did say Sony buys electric scooters. Which I don't agree with given what some of their devs are producing.

He's talking about the price of the vehicle. Not the quality of output.

 

[gothmog]

So we've upped the power fantasy from Microsoft will be vengeful and buy the gaming world to now Microsoft is toppling whole countries? Do some of you understand how stupid you sound? This thread has had it's ups and downs but fucking take a big sip of reality juice. Microsoft is not leaving the UK over Call of Duty. Azure's growth alone in the UK will probably eclipse any money Xbox can even dream of over the next ten years. There's no way the larger business would even risk that.

 

[MasterCornholio]

He's talking about the price of the vehicle. Not the quality of output.

Price and quality usually go together. It's why I interpreted the Ferrari as being an example of an expensive high quality vehicle and the scooter as being a much cheaper and lower quality one.

 

[feynoob]

So we've upped the power fantasy from Microsoft will be vengeful and buy the gaming world to now Microsoft is toppling whole countries? Do some of you understand how stupid you sound? This thread has had it's ups and downs but fucking take a big sip of reality juice. Microsoft is not leaving the UK over Call of Duty. Azure's growth alone in the UK will probably eclipse any money Xbox can even dream of over the next ten years. There's no way the larger business would even risk that.

What you are seeing is people who are out of touch from reality.
Even MS isn't that stupid.

 

[harry mason 1989]

What's with this xbox will leave uk talk
Did the cma block the deal?

 

[MasterCornholio]

What's with this xbox will leave uk talk
Did the cma block the deal?

Someone spread a rumor stating that Microsoft is threatening the CMA by saying they will leave the UK if they don't get COD. After that all this talk came up.

I've seen some comments online that they have leaked a kind of potential threat to the CMA that they would consider pulling out of the UK market if they don't pass it. I have no idea if that's true or crazy rumours again.

But I think it might have been the Sage guy that brought it up first. I have him on ignore so I didn't see the comment only the replies.

 

[SportsFan581]

What's with this xbox will leave uk talk
Did the cma block the deal?

Someone made a YT video.

Not to say that merging companies haven't flat out ignored rulings in the past, but I have no idea how that became a serious theory here.

 

[Heisenberg007]

So we've upped the power fantasy from Microsoft will be vengeful and buy the gaming world to now Microsoft is toppling whole countries? Do some of you understand how stupid you sound? This thread has had it's ups and downs but fucking take a big sip of reality juice. Microsoft is not leaving the UK over Call of Duty. Azure's growth alone in the UK will probably eclipse any money Xbox can even dream of over the next ten years. There's no way the larger business would even risk that.

In before the fantasies become even crazier.

Sony kidnaps the CMA leaders and Lina Khan from FTC and forces them to block the acquisition, and Microsoft sends an elite in-house special forces team to fight the Sony terrorists and save the hostages. Lina Khan falls in love with Phil Spencer for his swift and tactical action and, consequently, approves the acquisition along with the CMA.

In the end, Microsoft sends special officers Matt Booty, Aaron Greenburg, and Phil Spencer to Sony headquarters to blow up the building. And the gaming industry lives happily ever after.

 

[Varteras]

What's with this xbox will leave uk talk
Did the cma block the deal?

Insecure fanboy revenge fantasy over the possibility that the CMA kills the deal. Because in their head, Microsoft is fully willing to drop all business in one of the most important markets in the world over a division that has done little more than cost them money for two decades. A market which, by the way, is pretty much one of only two in which Xbox has any decent presence in.

 

[abacab driver]

Yes, I absolutely want Microsoft to spend tons of money making games rather than buy companies already making games. That means they are actually creating games rather than buying games that were going to be made regardless.

1st party studios make games with Sony/Microsoft's money regardless if the studios were recently bought or have been with Sony/Microsoft for 20 years.

I remember when the narrative was "lol @ Microsoft just buying struggling devs on a downslope"...as if they were wasting money on these acquisitions instead of prolonging the careers of these talented devs by providing sufficient funding.

My how times have changed.

 

[Varteras]

1st party studios make games with Sony/Microsoft's money regardless if the studios were recently bought or have been with Sony/Microsoft for 20 years.

I remember when the narrative was "lol @ Microsoft just buying struggling devs on a downslope"...as if they were wasting money on these acquisitions instead of prolonging the careers of these talented devs by providing sufficient funding.

My how times have changed.

I also remember the counter narrative being that all those studios were going to be gamechangers. Now apparently Microsoft needs to buy big publishers just to have a chance to compete.

How the times change.

Except they don't because fanboys never change and it's the same idiocy on repeat with no self-awareness.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

Its time for me to take a break from this topic cous its going out of hand, ore better its getting ridicoulus now, its the pinacle of a consolewar and the virtual atomic bombs are ready to be released.
So back to gamingnews again...for a while till the CMA and the EU and the FTC has publiced theyr verdict and the dust has setteld.
When all is said and done whe can make a book of it who knows 900? pages long. Ore dump the whole stuff on Wikepedia for future generations.

 

[Banjo64]

its a cost and it still might work out, the maths would be back of the notepad stuff but i very much doubt it really works out,

Quick maths; correct my numbers and calculations.
- 5 billion lost revenue from all of MS in UK + 0.8bn lost revenue from ABK in the UK (lets say 6b); was it 5bn MS total revenue in the UK?
- ABK makes ~8 billion globally so in terns of net revenue they (MS) maybe slightly up $2 billion annually off a 70billion purchase (~9billion one-off win fall) so roughly ~3% ROI (minus the lost in value of the asset over the length that MS has ABK as an asset) on the purchase
- the question is whether you are going to be able to find much better opportunities than 3%? IMO yes.

I think the bigger issue would the fall-out with the CMA and other regulators.

The reputational damage MS would be subject to worldwide for pulling a stunt like this would literally negatively impact all aspects of the business for decades.

There’s a reason why the biggest companies don’t tend to act like cowboys and instead cooperate with the governments of where they operate.

I can’t believe we’re here yet again talking about this when

A. It won’t happen.
B. The suggestion it could is infantile in the extreme.

 

[Three]

its a cost and it still might work out, the maths would be back of the notepad stuff but i very much doubt it really works out,

Quick maths; correct my numbers and calculations.
- 5 billion lost revenue from all of MS in UK + 0.8bn lost revenue from ABK in the UK (lets say 6b); was it 5bn MS total revenue in the UK?
- ABK makes ~8 billion globally so in terns of net revenue they (MS) maybe slightly up $2 billion annually off a 70billion purchase (~9billion one-off win fall) so roughly ~3% ROI (minus the lost in value of the asset over the length that MS has ABK as an asset) on the purchase
- the question is whether you are going to be able to find much better opportunities than 3%? IMO yes.

I think the bigger issue would the fall-out with the CMA and other regulators.

Your numbers are OK but you've used two different ABK revenue values. The $0.9B would be against $7.2B in revenue. If the ABK revenue you're using is from a different year that's $8B then the $0.9B would probably be higher.
The £5B is what that random user is stating as the UK revenue for MS, no idea what year it's from or if it's even reliable but I kept that as the only unreliable value in the calculations. To me £5B on £126B seems low for the UK. You would need to convert that into dollars so it's $6B. That investment would not be looking good.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The only difference is MS buys Ferraris and Sony buys electric scooters.

Such a dumb analogy that doesn’t work at all. Says it all about your views.

 

[Topher]

Has nothing to do with warrior rhetoric, it’s just the fact of the matter thus far. Hell, it’s the same excuse PS gamers here use when excusing Sonys recent acquisitions. “but Sony buys such smaller studios!!!” Hell, if I cared enough to go through your post history I’d probably find you saying it

Though I am forgetting about Bungie, another studio Sony grew from the ground up organically. That was a huge grab.

Edit, and MS has certainly acquired a couple smaller studios. So I guess they aren’t all Ferraris. But the only ones people care about are Zeni and ABK, PS gamers throwing fits about those. Meanwhile Sony buys Bungie and a majority of Xbox users here are just like

I mean....all you are doing is regurgitating warrior arguments so you are making my case for me. And no, I haven't differentiated Sony/MS based on size acquisitions at all. I see no more benefit to gamers with the Bungie acquisition than I do ABK.

Projection at it's finest.

 

[MasterCornholio]

HELP MEEEE!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pelta88]

Ultimately it wont get to that, because MS has them by the balls. MS can survive without the UK, but the UK cant without MS. How would it look if MS says we're pulling Windows, Office,Azure, COD from the UK. They dont have to do it, just say it. Brad Smith said they're currently using the nice guy strategy, but be prepared for fireworks if the CMA continues with this theatre.

 

[intheinbetween]

Ah, yes. I forgot that ABK is the only acquisition they have made. I also forgot that if MS didn’t buy ABK, who were actively looking for acquisition, ABK would have just went on as normal and not went to someone else to be bought.

Again, when Sony spends money, “it takes two to tango!!! blame the publisher, not Sony!!”

When those publishers come to MS wanting to be bought:

Aka, organic growth

 

[Hendrick's]

Such a dumb analogy that doesn’t work at all. Says it all about your views.

If the analogy is about acquisition size in dollars then it makes perfect sense.

 

[Varteras]

Ultimately it wont get to that, because MS has them by the balls. MS can survive without the UK, but the UK cant without MS. How would it look if MS says we're pulling Windows, Office,Azure, COD from the UK. They dont have to do it, just say it. Brad Smith said they're currently using the nice guy strategy, but be prepared for fireworks if the CMA continues with this theatre.

You hear that, Brits?! Get on your Limey knees before these flags!

 

[knocksky]

Ultimately it wont get to that, because MS has them by the balls. MS can survive without the UK, but the UK cant without MS. How would it look if MS says we're pulling Windows, Office,Azure, COD from the UK. They dont have to do it, just say it. Brad Smith said they're currently using the nice guy strategy, but be prepared for fireworks if the CMA continues with this theatre.

Yeah, this is a bad post.

 

[Hendrick's]

Yeah, this is a bad post.

Maybe I should put out a PSA for my fellow rats. This argument stinks and not like a good Limburger.

 

[intheinbetween]

Before we go anywhere, I want to say something.

Anyone who thinks MS will/should leave the UK Incase the CMA blocks the deal, needs to check reality.

MS will lose more than what they spent on Activision, if they decide to do that. Their stock will crash, and other countries might sanction MS because of their behavior.

Then you have the EU which will try and break up MS. They will also have to deal with FTC in the US.

To put it simply, that decision will harm MS compared to UK.

People need to learn the consequences of actions like these.

Again, it seems people are not aware how important is MS as a whole to most countries, neither MS is interested nor those countries in any way of a negative impact in the relationship among them.

Microsoft software, cloud infrastructure ans services are fundamental to not only private but public sector, from standard IT environments, to OT and specially ICS environments.

If you’re talking only about gaming then it would leave the gaming market up to two console platform owners, which would end up as a duopoly

 

[fred420170]

Insecure fanboy revenge fantasy over the possibility that the CMA kills the deal. Because in their head, Microsoft is fully willing to drop all business in one of the most important markets in the world over a division that has done little more than cost them money for two decades. A market which, by the way, is pretty much one of only two in which Xbox has any decent presence in.

Doubt they would do that but they could just pull the xbox division out of the UK and not break a sweat.

 

[Topher]

Doubt they would do that but they could just pull the xbox division out of the UK and not break a sweat.

Ok......this thread has officially shit the bed.

 

[Varteras]

Doubt they would do that but they could just pull the xbox division out of the UK and not break a sweat.

Even then you're leaving Xbox in just one effective market and gambling that never changes. Outside of North America and the UK, it's getting crushed and has been. You would make it even easier for competitors to squeeze you out of the market.

Sony already leverages its market share to get deals. Now imagine them being able to tell a third-party that if they want their game to sell in the UK, PlayStation is their only option for a high performance console. It would ultimately lead to a much greater number of exclusivity deals.

Sony's global market share would instantly jump. This would also free Sony up to heavily focus on marketing and deals in North America. Because when you're so far ahead everywhere else, or even the only one around, you don't need to convince people to buy PlayStation. They already are.

It would very likely be the deathblow to Xbox and it would be by Microsoft's own doing.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Doubt they would do that but they could just pull the xbox division out of the UK and not break a sweat.

Are you serious?


Some wild takes in this thread

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Hey thanks to whoever got me gold for that post. Idk how to tell who it was, maybe it was anonymous. We gotta fight the cretinism.

 

[wolffy71]

Before we go anywhere, I want to say something.

Anyone who thinks MS will/should leave the UK Incase the CMA blocks the deal, needs to check reality.

MS will lose more than what they spent on Activision, if they decide to do that. Their stock will crash, and other countries might sanction MS because of their behavior.

Then you have the EU which will try and break up MS. They will also have to deal with FTC in the US.

To put it simply, that decision will harm MS compared to UK.

People need to learn the consequences of actions like these.

But would the UK ever call their bluff? Doubtful

 

[BeardGawd]

I mean....all you are doing is regurgitating warrior arguments so you are making my case for me. And no, I haven't differentiated Sony/MS based on size acquisitions at all. I see no more benefit to gamers with the Bungie acquisition than I do ABK.

Pretending to be above the fray while being one of the biggest console warriors on here is the real yawn inducer.

 

[Topher]

being one of the biggest console warriors on here is the real yawn inducer.

 

[Astray]

Before we go anywhere, I want to say something.

Anyone who thinks MS will/should leave the UK Incase the CMA blocks the deal, needs to check reality.

MS will lose more than what they spent on Activision, if they decide to do that. Their stock will crash, and other countries might sanction MS because of their behavior.

Then you have the EU which will try and break up MS. They will also have to deal with FTC in the US.

To put it simply, that decision will harm MS compared to UK.

People need to learn the consequences of actions like these.

They have subsidiaries in the UK as well, like Ninja Theory, Playground Games and Rare. Also God knows how many Azure customers..

Only the delusional think that an adverse CMA decision would lead to MSFT leaving the UK.

 

[Varteras]

"Microsoft would just leave the UK. The UK wouldn't dare defy them on that threat".

I'll take <Giving The FTC All The Ammo They Need> for $1,000 , Alex!

 

[wolffy71]

I think the idea isn't so much that they would leave the UK.

It's more the UK blocks it and Microsoft says we'll we're still doing the deal.

Then what happens? Does MS get banned from the UK? That would be a tough call.

MS reported profit from the UK is a bit under $150 mil last year.

If MS can't close doesn't it cost them a pretty sizable amount? At what point does the risk of losing that $150M yearly make sense. IDK but I'm fairly certain it's just math at some point. It adds up or it doesnt.