Support NeoGAF

[Mibu no ookami]

Not on Xbox console.

Those are not competition to gamepass.
PS+ extra or premium is. Same as how GeForce and PS now are competitor to xcloud.


You are grasping for things at this point.


Dumb statement. It's 70$ which gets hit, not cheap entry with tons of games. If anything, services like gamepass thrive on this environment.


Don't know if you are serious at this point.


Another dumb argument.

Just say you don't know what you are talking about. It will save you some face.

All forms of entertainment to a degree compete with each other. You sound pretty ignorant if you don't realize that. There's only so much time in the day for individuals. Anything in gaming especially competes with each other.

If someone is playing Genshin Impact for 5 hours a day, they're not playing God of War Ragnarok.

Something doesn't have to be a subscription service to compete with the headspace of GamePass.

Cable companies are losing to subscription services not other cable services despite them not being the same thing. That you don't realize that these products are all competing for time, means you don't understand business or gaming.

In a recession, people look to cut costs. A subscription service is a fixed cost every month. You can choose not to buy a game day 1 and buy older/cheaper games. You can't reduce your GamePass cost, it is what it is no matter what. You can only decide whether you are going to subscribe or not. You can play God of War Ragnarok for 30 bucks if you wait long enough for it. There was a time where you could buy Cyberpunk for 10 dollars from Best Buy. Consumers during a recession will become more cost aware.

 

[Ozriel]

In Other words: they (Starfield, Redfall) are not First party games.

Wut?

The irony is that Microsoft is saying exactly the same talking that people use against Microsoft on the internet and in the media - "Xbox has no games", "Game Pass is failing" and so on.

"We need more first party to compete" as in that quote in the tweet is nowhere near the same thing as "xbox has no games" or "Gamepass is failing"

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Can you tell me any of the studios who could consistently put out a game that would sell at least 5 million copies? Hard to say I know with GamePass, but let me know what you can put together.

So you're shifting the goalposts from good games to "games that sell 5 million+" and even admitting while doing so that it's a waste of time because of GamePass. Off the top of my head they have numerous Bethesda studios who can do that, plus 343, plus Coalition, plus Playground, plus Turn10. Not that sales matter. Good games can sell poorly and bad games can sell well. By your logic, CoD is the best game released every year.

You're asking this in a thread where XBOX Execs have gone on record stating that their competition makes better games than they do?

You can't be serious, right? XBOX's legally binding admission is that their barometer of a good game, is PS... And by that measure, let me ask you this. When was the last time XBOX put out a game that entered the mainstream consciousness. No. It's not Psychonauts or Bleeding edge. It's not Flight Sim or any of the releases currently sitting in GP.

It was Halo 2 and Gears 2 back in 2004/8 And I'm not saying that any of the other games I mentioned are terrible. Just that they did not move the needle outside of the core audience. That's not hate. That's XBOX exec regulatory admissions and argument as to why they need COD.

The barometer for a good game is not Sony. Not even going to bother reading the rest after that nonsense.

 

[Pelta88]

The barometer for a good game is not Sony. Not even going to bother reading the rest after that nonsense.

Because you're more comfortable in your own narrative than the admission to regulators. It's shocking for me to read also but that doesn't make the admission by Microsoft that Sony makes better games than they do any less real.

Personally, I was shocked by this admission too. But again it's a statement Microsoft made.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Not sure I agree on that. Indie games can be pretty low cost (hundreds of thousands) to make if you have a group of talented developers. Indie movies are still going to cost you millions just on staffing alone.

Microsoft just isn't a creative company so I feel like they will not be successful no matter how many companies they acquire. They're just not built like that. This deal is about control which is why I'm against it. The best Microsoft is a hungry Microsoft that has to compete via investment versus acquisition.

All about ROI. Everything eveywhere all at once made 4x its budget of 25 million dollars. It's definitely more money than Hades made, even if its budget was 0 dollars.

 

[adamsapple]

Personally, I was shocked by this admission too. But again it's a statement Microsoft made.

Hopefully our shock also subsides quickly into acceptance for other statements MS makes as well.

 

[feynoob]

All forms of entertainment to a degree compete with each other. You sound pretty ignorant if you don't realize that. There's only so much time in the day for individuals. Anything in gaming especially competes with each other.

Gamepass exist mainly on Xbox untouched, and windows store. It doesn't exist on steam or on PS.
Steam and PS aren't a service but a platform.

If someone is playing Genshin Impact for 5 hours a day, they're not playing God of War Ragnarok.

Something doesn't have to be a subscription service to compete with the headspace of GamePass.

You either buy the game, or Sub to a subscription service to play said game.

Cable companies are losing to subscription services not other cable services despite them not being the same thing. That you don't realize that these products are all competing for time, means you don't understand business or gaming.

Content. Streaming services offer those same contents in a cheaper way.
I don't have to watch TV cable, if black list is on Netflix.

In a recession, people look to cut costs. A subscription service is a fixed cost every month. You can choose not to buy a game day 1 and buy older/cheaper games. You can't reduce your GamePass cost, it is what it is no matter what. You can only decide whether you are going to subscribe or not. You can play God of War Ragnarok for 30 bucks if you wait long enough for it. There was a time where you could buy Cyberpunk for 10 dollars from Best Buy. Consumers during a recession will become more cost aware.

If Sony or MS is offering me their games on Sub services, then I won't pay full money for their games.
People search for cheaper alternative.

 

[akimbo009]

Because you're more comfortable in your own narrative than the admission to regulators. It's shocking for me to read also but that doesn't make the admission by Microsoft that Sony makes better games than they do any less real.

Personally, I was shocked by this admission too. But again it's a statement Microsoft made.

Is it really that controversial (yet so brave) to say Sony has a leading 1st party set of studios? Truly a shocking admission.

 

[Banjo64]

Is it really that controversial (yet so brave) to say Sony has a leading 1st party set of studios? Truly a shocking admission.

No.

ND, SM & Insomniac are definitely a leading set of studios.

In my opinion though, Bethesda, Obsidian, Playground and id Software are equally as good (Bethesda exceed all listed in my opinion).

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Gamepass exist mainly on Xbox untouched, and windows store. It doesn't exist on steam or on PS.
Steam and PS aren't a service but a platform.





You either buy the game, or Sub to a subscription service to play said game.


Content. Streaming services offer those same contents in a cheaper way.
I don't have to watch TV cable, if black list is on Netflix.


If Sony or MS is offering me their games on Sub services, then I won't pay full money for their games.
People search for cheaper alternative.

That's like saying Apple Maps doesn't compete with Google Maps because Apple Maps isn't on Android, yet the quality of the navigation goes directly to people's purchasing decisions on the platforms in the first place...

Think I'm done with you... People go to the movies and they subscribe to netflix and disney plus. All of these things happen in parallel, HOWEVER, many people will decide to wait for movies to come out on streaming rather than see them in the theater and they'll also decide to watch something at home rather than go to the theater at all. They aren't the same product, but they do compete with each other.

When the cheaper option is to buy games that you really want when they're cheaper than full price and cheaper than sustaining a subscription service... what then?

 

[KingT731]

Could be true of literally any exclusive deals, the issue is that there is a greyness to the impact of marketing/exclusive deals that we as consumers will never know.

Since there is no good way to figure out what impact it was, these conversations (especially around the validity of exclusive deals) are generally a bit of an non-topic to me.

There are also examples of games where Xbox had the marketing/exclusivity and the game still sold better on PS like Tomb Raider(360/PS3 as well as the definitive edition on XB1/PS4)/Rise of The Tomb Raider.

 

[feynoob]

That's like saying Apple Maps doesn't compete with Google Maps because Apple Maps isn't on Android, yet the quality of the navigation goes directly to people's purchasing decisions on the platforms in the first place...

Apple maps is the same as Google maps in term of what offer. So both compete with each other. Apple/Google map doesn't compete against android/apple.
That is what I am telling you. Steam, Nintendo/switch, PS, Xbox, and epic are all platforms. Not a subscription service.

Gamepass competes with PS+ premium/extra, ea play, Uplay+.

Think I'm done with you... People go to the movies and they subscribe to netflix and disney plus. All of these things happen in parallel, HOWEVER, many people will decide to wait for movies to come out on streaming rather than see them in the theater and they'll also decide to watch something at home rather than go to the theater at all. They aren't the same product, but they do compete with each other.

Gz on describing why people want to Sub to subscription service.
It's all about spending money on a product, or using Sub services to get that product.
People who subscribes to Sub services are those who are unable to spend money on a lot of products, or can't afford to, or don't want to waste their money.

Unlike movies, games are expensive. People can't afford to get 5-6 games a month, unless you are loaded. So both model can coexist with each other. Buy what you want and Sub for those games, which you can't afford.

When the cheaper option is to buy games that you really want when they're cheaper than full price and cheaper than sustaining a subscription service... what then?

Buying the game isn't cheaper. People need to stop with that argument.
Unless you are someone who only plays 1 or 2 games a month, you will always spend more money on games.

For example, you need to spend 60$-70$ buying the game day1. 30$ for sale on that year, or 10$-20$ after 2-4 years sale.

Subscription service are cheaper on monthly, and how many games you want to play.

For consumers the 2nd options saves the money, depending on how games they play.


Lets not derail the topic anymore.

Subscription services like gamepass compete with each other. Some of those services are exclusive to certain platforms. Subscription services aren't a competition to platforms. They are extra revenue to the platform owner, where it exist.
Unlike streaming entertainment, game subscription offer better value and viewed as better option during recession.

 

[Ozriel]

You're asking this in a thread where XBOX Execs have gone on record stating that their competition makes better games than they do?

You can't be serious, right? XBOX's legally binding admission is that their barometer of a good game, is PS... And by that measure, let me ask you this. When was the last time XBOX put out a game that entered the mainstream consciousness? No. It's not Psychonauts or Bleeding edge. It's not Flight Sim or any of the releases currently sitting in GP.

It was Halo 2 and Gears 2 back in 2004/8 And I'm not saying that any of the other games I mentioned are terrible. Just that they did not move the needle outside of the core audience. That's not hate. That's XBOX exec regulatory admissions and argument as to why they need COD.

Yes, Xbox execs are on record saying that Sony's first party is putting out content that's overall better received than MS current output, but his point stands that none of that means Xbox games are 'bad or mediocre'.

You're being disingenuous here.

It's not going to fail but it is going to go through Netflix levels of quality differences. There was a point in Netflix's history where all of those early streaming content deals either expired or got a huge bump in cost through renewal negotiations. I think I basically stopped subbing for almost 2 years at some point. I'm pretty close again to dropping it because most of the content is basically clickbait in video form via shitty reality shows and discovery channel level drivel.It's not going to fail but it is going to go through Netflix levels of quality differences. There was a point in Netflix's history where all of those early streaming content deals either expired or got a huge bump in cost through renewal negotiations. I think I basically stopped subbing for almost 2 years at some point. I'm pretty close again to dropping it because most of the content is basically clickbait in video form via shitty reality shows and discovery channel level drivel.I imagine we will see similar things when developers start realizing how much others are charging for their games to be on GP.

Not sure how likely that Is as a scenario since an increasing amount of GP AAA content will come from MS first party.

 

[akimbo009]

No.

ND, SM & Insomniac are definitely a leading set of studios.

In my opinion though, Bethesda, Obsidian, Playground and id Software are equally as good (Bethesda exceed all listed in my opinion).

Yep, and at their best they are rivaling the best but it's no secret that Sony has nurtured an amazing set of studios - and don't think it's news that MS has praised them now or in the past.

One way or the other, MS is attempting to bring value and quality to it's customers but they aren't dellusional in recognizing the landscape or what their competition is up to.

 

[Ozriel]

Again, you're failing to realize or ignoring that the content on GamePass is going to get more expensive and the more expensive it is, the more expensive the service will be or the less content the service will have, either will drive away consumers, new and old.

It's a question of value, not just cost. If the service is providing much more value for consumers in the future than it is today, I'm not sure I see any mass exodus if prices are raised.

I'm not saying GamePass is going to fail, but it's certainly in its infancy right now and we have no idea how it will shake out when Microsoft starts to demand consistent profitability.

as far as we know, the service as it stands is already consistently profitable.

 

[pasterpl]

23 studios but only published 5 games in 2022 one of which was DLC and one was a deluxe edition. It's almost hilarious that Spencer wasn't fired as a result...

How many games Sony studios publish a year? They have got 19+ studios but I can see only 1-2 big releases a year, and lots of these nowadays are remakes, remasters and sequels. Some of which should be DLC's to be honest.

23 studios and only a couple rank with Sony's top studios, which means you're going to put out A LOT of trash with the name Xbox Game Studio attached. That's something that Sony MOSTLY avoids. They don't have many misses either. When they buy studios, they don't usually shutter them often and when they do cut ties with a company they rarely show promise afterward.

Microsoft bought Ninja Theory after Sony worked with them. Why didn't Sony buy them? Because Heavenly Sword was a disappointment and that game saved the company from going bankrupt earlier. It was a bad studio and they'll continue to make bad games. 23 Studios the majority of which making bad or average games will sully the brand and divert from resources that could have gone towards making some over their better games more polished.

You might not like their games but this is pure fanboyism calling likes of coalition, obsidian, arcane, Bethesda, inexile, double fine, rare, machine games, Id, tango etc. shit studios. Btw. Who was publisher of the year in 2021?

I have for example didn't like most of the Sony output on PS4 that's why it was my last Sony console, their games don't appeal to me at all and their studios in my opinion lack innovation in their games. I liked GoW 2018 (never finished because got bored) but have zero interest Ragnarok, horizon game on ps4 got me bored after 4h, my girlfriend had same experience. I have bought most of Sony exclusives, and played them on ps4 pro, and felt cheated by all the hype around these. Sorry I had more fun with psychonauts 2 and grounded compared to ghosts of Tsushima etc.

Yeah, Sony got more exclusives but for me all are borefests and I lose interest in them very fast each time.

 

[gothmog]

All about ROI. Everything eveywhere all at once made 4x its budget of 25 million dollars. It's definitely more money than Hades made, even if its budget was 0 dollars.

If it is about ROI your example proves it. Just do the math and you will see that Hades made more than 4x it's budget.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Because you're more comfortable in your own narrative than the admission to regulators. It's shocking for me to read also but that doesn't make the admission by Microsoft that Sony makes better games than they do any less real.

Personally, I was shocked by this admission too. But again it's a statement Microsoft made.

This "admission" you're going on and on about, isn't relevant to the reply I made to the other user. Talk about narrative. Move along, warrior.

 

[gothmog]

as far as we know, the service as it stands is already consistently profitable.

That means little. Companies are going to be vague about this because there's so many ways to shift the numbers around with subscription services. I'm sure MS could offer GP as a free to play model and still call it profitable. And for all we know it probably would be profitable.

 

[DForce]

I know there are a lot of console warriors on here,

You hang out with the biggest ones on Twitter.

but Halo Infinite hasn't failed. 20 million players after a month isn't a failure. It has remained one of the most played games on Xbox Game Pass and across Xbox consoles period since its release. Many other titles have come and gone and Halo Infinite is still regularly present in the most played list above other successful games.

The game also reviewed incredibly. Reviews for the campaign were fantastic. It is literally one of the best playing Halo campaigns ever made. Halo Infinite is quite literally a better game than Modern Warfare 2 and any recent COD... just not a better live service.

Seems to me the main people saying Halo failed are people who don't play Halo at all, and don't want to see new Halo titles. Halo Infinite MP is still in the top 20 (#19) in the USA right now. It's top 3 on Game Pass in the USA. Halo Infinite has consistently been among the most played game amongst not just Game Pass subscribers (which is kind of the point...) and also amongst all Xbox gamers.

In the latest list from newzoo, Halo Infinite is the #10 most played xbox game worldwide on Xbox Series X|S consoles. It jumped up 10 spaces (I wonder what changed recently?) Destiny 2 remains unchanged from before at #17. This was just with the winter update, new match xp beta and the other recent changes and additions like campaign co-op, forge, and a multitude of other changes and enhancements.

How has Halo failed if its top 10 most played across the latest Xbox consoles? And this was just with the winter update... Not even a whole traditional season.

https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-xbox-games-series-s-x-global

20 million players within the first month, but the majority of those players dropped.
The all-time leak for Halo Infinite on PC is 276k and now it's averaging around 6K throughout this entire year.

That's a massive dropoff.

Brad Sams claims the game hasn't met financial expectations.

Halo Infinite Didn't Meet Microsoft's Financial Expectations

It is also stated that the game's underperformance was the reason for the 343 Industries restructuring.

80.lv

You also have people leaving 343 studios. It's no surprise that many people were disappointed with Halo Infinite and were happy that Bonnie Ross left 343 studios.

GameInformer - The Final Level

Halo has been hovering around the 20 mark for the most played Xbox games throughout the year.

Shifting in development. Canceling and delaying the development of features.

Halo Infinite Dev Reveals More Info on Why Split-Screen Co-Op Was Canceled

A Halo Infinite developer reveals details about why 343 Industries canceled the split-screen co-op that some fans were anticipating.

gamerant.com

So is it a failure?

I think it's safe to say that they were not happy with the performance of Halo Infinite.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You hang out with the biggest ones on Twitter.




20 million players within the first month, but the majority of those players dropped.
The all-time leak for Halo Infinite on PC is 276k and now it's averaging around 6K throughout this entire year.

That's a massive dropoff.

Brad Sams claims the game hasn't met financial expectations.

http://[URL]https://80.lv/articles/...ft-s-financial-expectations-brad-sams-claims/

[/URL]

You also have people leaving 343 studios. It's no surprise that many people were disappointed with Halo Infinite and were happy that Bonnie Ross left 343 studios.

http://[URL]https://www.gameinformer.com/343-industries-head-bonnie-ross-leaving-studio

[/URL]


Halo has been hovering around the 20 mark for the most played Xbox games throughout the year.

Shifting in development. Canceling and delaying the development of features.

http://[URL]https://gamerant.com/halo-infinite-split-screen-co-op-canceled-why

[/URL]


So is it a failure?

I think it's safe to say that they were not happy with the performance of Halo Infinite.

Yeah, I enjoyed Halo Infinite. It wasn't a GOTY caliber title or anything, but it had awesome mechanics and was fun to play.

The real problem is their SP games simply aren't wrapped in an interesting narrative or design package, and their MP games lack progression, longevity, and content.

They need to separate Halo the GaaS title from Halo the single player game.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If it is about ROI your example proves it. Just do the math and you will see that Hades made more than 4x it's budget.

It might have made more than 4x its budget, but it didn't make more money. That's the rub when indie games even the most successful ones TEND to have a much lower ceiling.

 

[The_Mike]

293 pages in and now we're back at list wars for whoever the fuck released most games or none at all in 2022.

If I read the first page today and wanted to keep up by just reading the last, I would have thought that I mistakingly had clicked on another thread under "similar threads"

 

[feynoob]

You hang out with the biggest ones on Twitter.




20 million players within the first month, but the majority of those players dropped.
The all-time leak for Halo Infinite on PC is 276k and now it's averaging around 6K throughout this entire year.

That's a massive dropoff.

Brad Sams claims the game hasn't met financial expectations.

http://[URL][URL]https://80.lv/arti...ft-s-financial-expectations-brad-sams-claims/

[/URL][/URL]

You also have people leaving 343 studios. It's no surprise that many people were disappointed with Halo Infinite and were happy that Bonnie Ross left 343 studios.

http://[URL][URL]https://www.gameinformer.com/343-industries-head-bonnie-ross-leaving-studio

[/URL][/URL]


Halo has been hovering around the 20 mark for the most played Xbox games throughout the year.

Shifting in development. Canceling and delaying the development of features.

http://[URL][URL]https://gamerant.com/halo-infinite-split-screen-co-op-canceled-why

[/URL][/URL]


So is it a failure?

I think it's safe to say that they were not happy with the performance of Halo Infinite.

The MP can be fixed, as it takes time for them to rise again.
Fallout 76 was shit, same with no man's sky. But both are successful now, with tons of content and updates.

Halo at this point needs enough content, and those players would be back again.

If MS can support halo for longer, they would get tons of players.

One more thing, concurrent players means shit for over all player count. Sea of thieves sold 5m, yet you don't do see 100k+ players play now.

https://steamcharts.com/app/1172620

It could change very well, depending on how they handle future updates. Right now halo infinite MP is live service game.

 

[feynoob]

Yeah, I enjoyed Halo Infinite. It wasn't a GOTY caliber title or anything, but it had awesome mechanics and was fun to play.

The real problem is their SP games simply aren't wrapped in an interesting narrative or design package, and their MP games lack progression, longevity, and content.

They need to separate Halo the GaaS title from Halo the single player game.

Issue is they made 10 year plan. MS was stupid to agree with that idea. Thnx to that halo is suffering a lot.

 

[DForce]

The MP can be fixed, as it takes time for them to rise again.
Fallout 76 was shit, same with no man's sky. But both are successful now, with tons of content and updates.

Halo at this point needs enough content, and those players would be back again.

If MS can support halo for longer, they would get tons of players.

One more thing, concurrent players means shit for over all player count. Sea of thieves sold 5m, yet you don't do see 100k+ players play now.

https://steamcharts.com/app/1172620

It could change very well, depending on how they handle future updates. Right now halo infinite MP is live service game.

Sure things can change, but to portray it as a success is just being dishonest.

Concurrent players are important.

6K for Halo on PC (one of Microsoft's biggest games) is not good. This is where a good portion of the 20+ million players came from.

Sea of Thieves achieved success outside of Game Pass. This means they were able to get sales when they moved to steam AND maintain a good concurrent player count. You also have to take into consideration that it's a game with a lower budget.

Sea of Thieves
24-Hour Peak - 17k
All-Time Leak - 66k
Xbox Most played - #47

Halo Infinite
24-Hour Peak - 6.7k
All-Time Peak - 272k
Xbox Most Played - #19


So far it seems Sea of Thieves performed MUCH better than Halo Infinite.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Microsoft isn't asking people to feel sorry for them. They are trying to get an acquisition approved


Well, you're wrong. Sony has not replaced Killzone and Resistance. They left the FPS shooter genre altogether. Same with the platformer genre after Crash, Spyro, Jak and Daxter and Sly Cooper got shelved. Same with vehicle combat genre after Twisted Metal got shelved

I think something to understand is that FPS have a limited fanbase. Outside of COD, what FPS are real big hit games? Horizon Forbidden West outsold all Killzone games combined. Spider-Man outsold all Resistance Games combined times probably 5.

Specific studios moved on from making specific games, but I wouldn't say Sony left the genres. Platformers: Knack and Astrobot and most recently Sackboy adventure.

They just did a vehicle combat-type game with Destruction All-Stars.

 

[feynoob]

Sure things can change, but to portray it as a success is just being dishonest.

It was never a successful. That is something only halo players knows about it, as they were complaining about lack of content alot.

Concurrent players are important.

Nope. It really doesn't. As that stats doesn't tell you about the daily players, but only those who logged in at once.

You need to see overalls logs in for that day. Concurrent system doesn't have that info.

The relevant data we have now is sea of theives 5m steam sales.

On Steam, 5 million copies have been sold as of December 21, 2021

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Are the rate of new subscribers (paying full price) in line with or greater than the increase in cost due to 3rd party and internal development?

That's the only question that really matters.

Microsoft hasn't changed the price because they understand price elasticity, but they're already talking about increasing prices next year.

You said even if GamePass goes up, because you know it will. 5 dollar a month might be a deal breaker for many. Especially if the content doesn't get better.

The 3rd party deals don't cost what many think they do, and neither does first-party game development. How many of Xbox's first-party games do you think are costing them over $300 million to make? Probably few reach that high. If I had to guess one that would, it would probably be Starfield or possibly even Halo Infinite, and I again have doubts both are truly, truly that high.

Game Pass on consoles alone brought in $2.9 billion just last year. Game Pass this year is easily set to bring in over $3 billion (possibly $4 billion) in revenue. People can think whatever they want, but Microsoft will never have THAT many games in development without counter-balancing videogame revenue to cancel it out that the costs of that development (including paying employees) exceeds $3 to $4 billion in a single calendar year.

And don't forget that upon activision deal close, Game Pass becomes MORE sustainable thanks to the cash cows of King with Candy Crush and the kind of money Call of Duty as a whole brings in between premium releases, warzone, and mobile releases. And then Blizzard has a nice chunk of content dropping also. Game Pass when the Activision deal closes because easier to maintain due to the influx of revenue.

 

[freefornow]

Microsoft just isn't a creative company so I feel like they will not be successful no matter how many companies they acquire. They're just not built like that.

As a card carrying green rat who also partakes of the blue and red, it is really hard to argue against this. Will it change going forward? We'll see.
There is "something" about Sony first party that makes me buy their consoles (well played Sony, well played). And Nintendo has always been special! A league of their own I would argue.

 

[DForce]

It was never a successful. That is something only halo players knows about it, as they were complaining about lack of content alot.

And my comment was about his claim.

Nope. It really doesn't. As that stats doesn't tell you about the daily players, but only those who logged in at once.

We don't have the player count and that's why we go by concurrent numbers.

Over 20 million was the first major number that was given. It didn't tell us how many players stayed.

If we go by the 6k number, then we know the Player count is low for a major game.

You need to see overalls logs in for that day. Concurrent system doesn't have that info.

The relevant data we have now is sea of theives 5m steam sales.

We go by concurrent because that's what we have. The total player count MS has given us doesn't mean anything because people can lay it for an hour and never return.

 

[Pelta88]

When you move from celebrating 20 million "Players" to your community, especially here in Europe, ranting online because you can't find a multiplayer match. All in just a few short months... Along with many elevated insiders within the XBOX community saying the game was a flop financially... But here in this thread people are trying to change the narrative?

I don't usually block unless someone openly states that their interactions are designed to troll. But if you're here trying to create a narrative where Halo isn't a heavily diminished, ridiculed in the mainstream, and disregarded by it's own community, imma block the ish outta you

I'm not here to fuel your fantasy that's playing out in the multiverse somewhere. Some people when it comes to the state of Halo be like

 

[feynoob]

And my comment was about his claim.

He was wrong about his statement. Unless he plays halo, he shouldn't boost about that.

We don't have the player count and that's why we go by concurrent numbers.

And that is where issues lies.
Concurrent numbers gives false data, which people make a claim about how a product is a failure.

Over 20 million was the first major number that was given. It didn't tell us how many players stayed.

People who played once are counted on this data. It doesn't tell us about long term players.
That statement could be true, if we go by how many people launched the game.

If we go by the 6k number, then we know the Player count is low for a major game.

It would be 6k people logged in at once.
Low for a major game, but that is not the only platform.
Check out ff14. It has 4x of halo, but it's not a flop too.
https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

We go by concurrent because that's what we have. The total player count MS has given us doesn't mean anything because people can lay it for an hour and never return.

For MS it's total of players that played the game since launch.
Remember, the game isn't only on steam. It's top 12 played on Xbox dec 14, it's also on windows store.
That is a lot of places to play. So steam isn't any indication for total players.

 

[Ozriel]

When you move from celebrating 20 million "Players" to your community, especially here in Europe, ranting online because you can't find a multiplayer match. All in just a few short months... Along with many elevated insiders within the XBOX community saying the game was a flop financially... But here in this thread people are trying to change the narrative?

I don't usually block unless someone openly states that their interactions are designed to troll. But if you're here trying to create a narrative where Halo isn't a heavily diminished, ridiculed in the mainstream, and disregarded by it's own community, imma block the ish outta you

I'm not here to fuel your fantasy that's playing out in the multiverse somewhere. Some people when it comes to the state of Halo be like

Yes, we hear your cries of outrage, but what the hell does this have to do with "Microsoft/Activision Deal Approval Watch"?

 

[Iced Arcade]

When you move from celebrating 20 million "Players" to your community, especially here in Europe, ranting online because you can't find a multiplayer match. All in just a few short months... Along with many elevated insiders within the XBOX community saying the game was a flop financially... But here in this thread people are trying to change the narrative?

I don't usually block unless someone openly states that their interactions are designed to troll. But if you're here trying to create a narrative where Halo isn't a heavily diminished, ridiculed in the mainstream, and disregarded by it's own community, imma block the ish outta you

I'm not here to fuel your fantasy that's playing out in the multiverse somewhere. Some people when it comes to the state of Halo be like

Did you run out of relevant things to regurgitate?

 

[Pelta88]

Yes, we hear your cries of outrage, but what the hell does this have to do with "Microsoft/Activision Deal Approval Watch"?

If outrage means you're not prepared to engage with people openly trying to distort facts then so be it.

That aside, the conversation stems from me saying XBOX would diminish COD by forcing it to align with Microsoft's strategy which is what they've been notorious for in the past. Some took exception, and tried to imply Halo is/was greatness with a vibrant community and was successful.

Iced Arcade Where 14K posts in. If you can find.... Lets say 5... era regurgitated posts from me, I'll adorn whatever avi you see fit for 24 hours.

 

[DForce]

He was wrong about his statement. Unless he plays halo, he shouldn't boost about that.

And that is where issues lies.
Concurrent numbers gives false data, which people make a claim about how a product is a failure.

If it's a major title like Halo Infinite and it has 6k concurrent players on PC, then that's a good indicator that the player base is low. Concurrent

People who played once are counted on this data. It doesn't tell us about long term players.
That statement could be true, if we go by how many people launched the game.

You can't ignore the concurrent and 24 active player count and treat it as irrelevant. It's sufficient data and it's been used for years to determine how active a player base is.

It would be 6k people logged in at once.
Low for a major game, but that is not the only platform.
Check out ff14. It has 4x of halo, but it's not a flop too.
https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

You can't say it's low for a major game and then tell me that we can't rely on this stat. lol.

For MS it's total of players that played the game since launch.
Remember, the game isn't only on steam. It's top 12 played on Xbox dec 14, it's also on windows store.
That is a lot of places to play. So steam isn't any indication for total players.

This is why I gave standings on both Steam and Xbox.

Yes, 20 million total players in the first month. If the peak was almost 200k in the first month on PC, then that means around half of those players came from PC. The active numbers have declined ever since.

An update for Halo Infinite was released not too long ago and it was expected to receive a small boost. This is also hoping that MS store is somehow going to have a much larger player base.

 

[gothmog]

It might have made more than 4x its budget, but it didn't make more money. That's the rub when indie games even the most successful ones TEND to have a much lower ceiling.

In a world where you want to offer hundreds of titles a month you probably want to have the actual higher ROI titles with a sprinkling of big budget items in there. You could neither afford nor sustain a constant stream of AAA.

Also it's probably more about budget, ROI, and sustainability than making money because it's a volume subscription play here. So you go with smaller, safer bets and save the big stuff for your best hardware sales times like holidays and graduation times.

 

[feynoob]

If it's a major title like Halo Infinite and it has 6k concurrent players on PC, then that's a good indicator that the player base is low. Concurrent


You can't ignore the concurrent and 24 active player count and treat it as irrelevant. It's sufficient data and it's been used for years to determine how active a player base is.


You can't say it's low for a major game and then tell me that we can't rely on this stat. lol.


This is why I gave standings on both Steam and Xbox.

Yes, 20 million total players in the first month. If the peak was almost 200k in the first month on PC, then that means around half of those players came from PC. The active numbers have declined ever since.

An update for Halo Infinite was released not too long ago and it was expected to receive a small boost. This is also hoping that MS store is somehow going to have a much larger player base.

I think its better to do the math for you to see total numbers.

As far as we know this is how steam chart works.

This website is facilitated by a web frontend service and a data collector service that queries the Steam Web API. The collector queries the number of concurrent players on an hourly interval for every single game in the Steam catalog, and has been collecting data since July of 2012. The services are written in Go and the data is stored and managed with PostgreSQL.

If steam refreshes every hour, that means it does 24 refresh every hour.
Average player playtime is 2 hour.
If halo is played 2 hour, that means there is 12 refresh (24/2=12).
By calculating this data, we can estimate the number of players that are playing the game.

I decided to make a chart from 1 hour playtime to 6 hour without any logout. That means, there are no 10min run to 45min run. So my data is not that accurate due to that variable.
Anyway, here is my result.

Playtime	Refresh	Average players	Total players	Average players	Total on launch players
1 hour	24	3861	92,664	102,732	2,465,568
2 hour	12	3861	46,332	102,732	1,232,784
3 hour	8	3861	30,888	102,732	821,856
4 hour	6	3861	23,166	102,732	616,392
5 hour	4.8	3861	18,532.8	102,732	493,113.6
6 hour	4	3861	15,444	102,732	410,928

If everyone played 1 hour on launch month, we can estimate 2.46m of halo players during november, and 92k 30 days until now.

Here is the average players on steam for my data. From month to peak time.
https://steamcharts.com/app/1240440#1m

Last 30 Days

3,861.5

-203.5

-5.01%

7,922

November 2021

102,732.3

256,619

 

[adamsapple]

If it's a major title like Halo Infinite and it has 6k concurrent players on PC, then that's a good indicator that the player base is low.

You can't ignore the concurrent and 24 active player count and treat it as irrelevant. It's sufficient data and it's been used for years to determine how active a player base is.

You can't say it's low for a major game and then tell me that we can't rely on this stat. lol.

This is why I gave standings on both Steam and Xbox.

Yes, 20 million total players in the first month. If the peak was almost 200k in the first month on PC, then that means around half of those players came from PC. The active numbers have declined ever since.

An update for Halo Infinite was released not too long ago and it was expected to receive a small boost. This is also hoping that MS store is somehow going to have a much larger player base.

I don't know when people on this forum will stop passing judgment on activity for Xbox centric games based solely on Steam users.

Infinite has been in the top 3/5 most played games on game pass pretty much consistently since it came out.

 

[gothmog]

If it's a major title like Halo Infinite and it has 6k concurrent players on PC, then that's a good indicator that the player base is low. Concurrent


You can't ignore the concurrent and 24 active player count and treat it as irrelevant. It's sufficient data and it's been used for years to determine how active a player base is.


You can't say it's low for a major game and then tell me that we can't rely on this stat. lol.


This is why I gave standings on both Steam and Xbox.

Yes, 20 million total players in the first month. If the peak was almost 200k in the first month on PC, then that means around half of those players came from PC. The active numbers have declined ever since.

An update for Halo Infinite was released not too long ago and it was expected to receive a small boost. This is also hoping that MS store is somehow going to have a much larger player base.

A bit off topic but did that Halo update or the BF2042 going EA Play move the needle at all on either game? Genuinely curious if either pulled out of the dive. After Anthem I think people got tired of giving games a second chance.

 

[feynoob]

Idas
NEXT IMPORTANT DATES

- Late December 2022: response from MS to the FTC administrative complaint.

- Early January 2023: provisional findings and remedies (if required) from the CMA.

- January 18th 2023: original outside date (when the parties expected the merger to be done). If MS quits before that date they have to pay a termination fee of $2,000,000,000; if they don't, the outside date gets extended until April 18th 2023.

- Late January 2023: Statement of objections from the EC (unless MS can offer a convincing remedy package to avoid it).

- February 3rd 2023: decision from New Zealand.

- March 1st 2023: final report and remedies (if required) from the CMA.

- April 11th 2023: final decision from the EC (if MS didn't close the deal in January in Europe).

- April 18th 2023: second extension of the original outside date. If MS quits before that date they have to pay a termination fee of $2,500,000,000; if they don't, the outside date gets extended until July 18th 2023.

- April - May 2023: decision from the SAMR in China.

- July 18th 2023: The end of the second extension and final outside date in the merger agreement. If MS quits before that date they have to pay a termination fee of $3,000,000,000; if they don't, they'll have to renegotiate the outside date with ABK.

- August 2nd 2023: beginning of the FTC in-house trial.

- Early 2024: decision from the FTC administrative law judge.

- Anything beyond that: unknown

As you can see, the next 3-4 weeks are going to be intense :s I expect lots of lawyers working until very late, including weekends and holidays

 

[Banjo64]

I don't know when people on this forum will stop passing judgment on activity for Xbox centric games based solely on Steam users.

Infinite has been in the top 3/5 most played games on game pass pretty much consistently since it came out.

If Sea of Thieves consistently has 30k peak Steam players per week, why can't we say that Halo Infinite @ 6k is comparatively a failure?

There's no evidence to suggest that Halo Infinite would scale differently across PC/Xbox compared to Grounded/SoT considering FPS games are probably the most popular genre on PC.

Microsoft themselves said it's not met expectations, which is corporate speak for 'this is fucking shit'. The MP fanbase hates it. Why deny the truth?

 

[feynoob]

If anyone wants to see PS vs Nintendo vs Xbox consoles sales for each month, here is an interesting video.


Mods this is part of this acquisition, as the deal can affect those console sale numbers in the future.

 

[adamsapple]

If Sea of Thieves consistently has 30k peak Steam players per week, why can't we say that Halo Infinite @ 6k is comparatively a failure?

There's no evidence to suggest that Halo Infinite would scale differently across PC/Xbox compared to Grounded/SoT considering FPS games are probably the most popular genre on PC.

Microsoft themselves said it's not met expectations, which is corporate speak for 'this is fucking shot'. The MP fanbase hates it. Why deny the truth?

Sea of Thieves having more concurrent users on one platform is in no way an indication that Y game has absolutely tanked elsewhere.

Microsoft can say the game didn't meet expectations, that's fine. They had different higher expectations from it. That's another topic altogether.

But the fact is that going by their own most played metrics, Halo Infinite is actively being played a lot more on game pass right now than Sea of Thieves.

Relying solely on Steam metrics is wrong here, that's all I'm saying. The current most played GP games listing shows that.

 

[feynoob]

Sea of Thieves having more concurrent users on one platform is in no way an indication that Y game has absolutely tanked elsewhere.

Microsoft can say the game didn't meet expectations, that's fine. They had different higher expectations from it. That's another topic altogether.

But the fact is that going by their own most played metrics, Halo Infinite is actively being played a lot more on game pass right now than Sea of Thieves.

Relying solely on Steam metrics is wrong here, that's all I'm saying. The current most played GP games listing shows that.

You need this data.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/most-played/games/xbox
That covers non gamepass users too, and entire xbox games.

 

[adamsapple]

You need this data.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/most-played/games/xbox
That covers non gamepass users too, and entire xbox games.

Yeah, I used the GP one deliberately. Both SoT and Halo are available there. But in both links you can see a lot more people are actively played Halo on the MS store / Xbox eco system than Sea of Thieves in this recorded period. To say the game is dead because of low numbers on Steam is wholly inaccurate.

 

[Banjo64]

But the fact is that going by their own most played metrics, Halo Infinite is actively being played a lot more on game pass right now than Sea of Thieves.

Relying solely on Steam metrics is wrong here, that's all I'm saying. The current most played GP games listing shows that.

A lot more? I mean, in the UK Xbox most played charts right now Sea of Thieves is a few games behind Infinite but they're both behind quite a lot of pretty shit games that won't have tens of thousand of people playing them.

It's not like there's 100k concurrent Xbox users on Halo but only 40 on Sea of Thieves or anything daft like that.

 

[feynoob]

Yeah, I used the GP one deliberately. Both SoT and Halo are available there. But in both links you can see a lot more people are actively played Halo on the MS store / Xbox eco system than Sea of Thieves in this recorded period. To say the game is dead because of low numbers on Steam is wholly inaccurate.

Issue is people only concurrent players, which is 1 hourly refresh of logged players.
You cant determine total players that way, as people dont play the game for 24 hour straight.

 

[adamsapple]

A lot more? I mean, in the UK Xbox most played charts right now Sea of Thieves is a few games behind Infinite but they're both behind quite a lot of pretty shit games that won't have tens of thousand of people playing them.

It's not like there's 100k concurrent Xbox users on Halo but only 40 on Sea of Thieves or anything daft like that.

Well they don't reveal numbers so we can't say for sure either way.

But Infinite is 12 ranks ahead of SoT. That does account for a big gap and likely a big number of users. Not 200K vs 40. But you get the idea.

Issue is people only concurrent players, which is 1 hourly refresh of logged players.
You cant determine total players that way, as people dont play the game for 24 hour straight.

Are you talking about the MS store rank or the Steam numbers people are using ? I have no idea how frequently or what time gaps the MS store updates.