Sosokrates
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Microsoft Admits Its Handling of Lionhead Studios Was a ‘Misstep’
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Game Dev
Iced Arcade
Member
They helped design Kinect, created and designed the avatar system, helped with the NXE interface etc. Kinect adventures sold 25 million copies and sea of theives is massive.
But yes, yes we haven't had a new banjo
Papacheeks
Banned
They also put out Lost legacy? A remaster, AS WELL before that?
And Naughty Dog's games were for the most part in what they were advertised as feature complete. My entire point was Microsofts handling of RARE after the purchase. Only when they pitched a MMO style game did they get longer development time for their said project. Most of the staff from days of Kameo, Nutts and Bolts are long since gone.
Sea of theieves is a great financial success. But its in reality so far from xbox one era their only title they put out in an entire gen? ANd wont have anything new for a while. Though I would agree when it comes to ND you are right in their bloat as a studio. But I would also counter that with the amount of increase in mo-cap cutscenes, and larger scope that has balooned their production.
Almost all of SOny studios barring a few like Polydigital, bend have multiple titles under their belts within the same gen and a lot of it bled into PS4 gen from PS3.
Like: their last full production title was Kinect sports before sea of thieves?
They facilitated Killer Instinct but most of it was Iron Galaxy from my understanding.
Utherellus
Member
Was it tho?
I mean Playground is way more leant towards quality than Lionhead could ever be, their engine is amazing, studio efficiency is great and track record speaks for itself.
While I adore Fable, it must be said that through each sequel it really didn't get evolved into something more ambitious and deep.
Entire franchise looked like it wasn't given neither AAA budget nor treatment.
I hope Playground will deliver ambitious, fully open world, quality oriented interpretation of Fable.
I mean Playground is way more leant towards quality than Lionhead could ever be, their engine is amazing, studio efficiency is great and track record speaks for itself.
While I adore Fable, it must be said that through each sequel it really didn't get evolved into something more ambitious and deep.
Entire franchise looked like it wasn't given neither AAA budget nor treatment.
I hope Playground will deliver ambitious, fully open world, quality oriented interpretation of Fable.
DangerDiabolik
Member
But it's more than simply a financial success. A game can be a financial success but have no lasting popularity. But with Sea of Thieves, its popularity and player base continues to grow.
I think Last of Us Part II pales in comparison to the legacy and library of that studio, but I'd be a deluded idiot to talk about "the downfall of Naughty Dog" because their popularity has never been higher.
You talk about them only putting out one game since 2018, but SoT is a live service game that requires regular large content updates. You can't compare it to a studio that puts out single player games than don't require continuous development.
MDSLKTR
Member
No matter what you write, Sea of Thieves will forever be a more successful project than anything Media Molecule will ever do.
sainraja
Member
^^ that number has mostly gone down. It's standing at around 15 million players on avg. Does not take anything away from the game but it's not 25 million players. Based on this anyway: https://activeplayer.io/sea-of-thieves/
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Papacheeks
Banned
I don';t disagree with anything both of you said. But my point stands that RARE use to be more active in terms of studio output. ND though they are bloated at the moment have multiple Projects in the works. One is a remake, one is a new IP and one is the multiplayer component to Last of us part 2. Santa monic has a game releasing next year and a new IP they will show us sometime next year as well.
I hope everwild is a passion project for RARE and not a service game where they need to constantly have a good amount of people working on it all the time. I guess in terms of keeping the studio flush and in the black it is a good thing. But as someone who owns a Copy of Kameo, NUTTS and bolts, it's just sad when you look at what they use to be.
The fact another studio is making Perfect dark kind of blows my mind a little. But then again like I said people who made those games back then have long since left the studio.
We are talking about handling of studios. And honestly SOT seemed like it was RARE's last shot at being relevant.
Kinect sports though solid titles were just that solid kinnect games.
This falls under MS in how they pulled projects and had some really bad management practices with rare which from what I read is what caused a big divide in original people after viva-pinata, and kinect sports.
Pretty good read on what happened to RARE and how like many of you pointed out SOT kind of saved them or was their last chance to be honest.
Who saved Rare?
Eight years ago, Eurogamer printed the article 'Who killed Rare?'
www.gamesindustry.biz
ManaByte
Member
It wasn't their last chance. It was a prototype they were working on that Spencer saw the potential in and greenlit. It absolutely paid off.
Papacheeks
Banned
Honestly it totally did. Im not a fan of it, but I do see the spirit of old RARE in that game everytime I see it. But they literally needed that game to impress people within Xbox. That article touches a little on how dire it was pre- SOT pitch.
AMSCD
Member
It took them two decades before they made a hit again after Microsoft bought them.
kingfey
Banned
The entire xbox studio were like that, due to Don mattrick.
The focus on kinetics, and not focusing on 1st party studio took a heavy toll on xbox 1st party studio.
Most likely they are pretending to have concern while inwardly hoping they fail.
That’s just a guess though.
Little Mac
Gold Member
Rare? Downfall? What?
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AMSCD
Member
I'm not concern trolling. I grew up on SNES and the N64 and loved their games. I wish they would return to their glory days, but one good game in two decades is indicative of a downfall.
Papacheeks
Banned
Literally not even a game yet. Literally started over a year ago.
ManaByte
Member
You literally don’t have proof of those claims.
Justin9mm
Member
WitchHunter
Banned
Stay clear of the meatgrinder.
Microsoft Admits Its Handling of Lionhead Studios Was a ‘Misstep’ - IGN
Microsoft has said that its handling of Lionhead Studios, which was shut down in 2016, was a “mistake” that helped shape the way Microsoft now works with its acquired developers.www.ign.com
Dr Bass
Member
This was reported on quite a bit recently.
Xbox Exclusive Everwild Development Has Reportedly Been 'Rebooted'
A new report claims that not only had Rare's newest game Everwild replaced its creative director, but it has been rebooted 'from scratch.'
gamerant.com
Everwild was reportedly an action-adventure with god game elements, but it’s been rebooted
Don't expect Rare's gorgeous new IP to launch anytime soon
www.pcgamesn.com
Clam Reports
Clam Reports is a dedicated team of international reporters, journalists, and developers. We translate and compile local news sources from various languages into comprehensive English reports, delivering accurate and swift information to our users.
www.tellerreport.com
(there are a lot more available links)
Is there anything to suggest this reporting is false?
Papacheeks
Banned
google.
Everwild has reportedly been rebooted and won't release until 2023
Rare's follow-up to Sea of Thieves hasn’t seen the light of day since 2020
Why wasn’t Everwild at E3? It’s been ‘completely rebooted’ | VGC
Sources suggest Rare is ‘starting from scratch’; studio confirms new creative director…
www.videogameschronicle.com
Not trying to be a dick manabyte but I wouldn't comment on these things if I Didn't know wtf I was talking about.
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Rykan
Member
Kinect Adventures was designed by Good Science studios, not Rare. So since it's acquisition they've made some UI adjustments and one GAAS that they salvaged after launch.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
I just don't get why it took them literally decades and a shift to a Netflix-for-games subscription service to understand the importance of giving the creatives the creative freedom they need to do their jobs.
Papacheeks
Banned
I said this years ago, their internal culture around xbox for years even in it's inception was all wrong. The only people who knew what they had were the early people like J.allard, shamous blackley.
Batiman
Banned
SOT was huge and one of the best games last gen. Also Kinect was successful as fuck whether we liked them or not
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Iced Arcade
Member
Oh my bad, I meant Kinect sports not Kinect adventures.
And you might want to brush up on your reading if that's all you think they made since acquisition.
Rykan
Member
Thats not all they've made, but its the only thing that even begins to cover a fraction of the costs it took to acquire this studio.
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bentanchorbolt
Banned
The top guys from Rare left before MS ever purchased them. The writing was on the wall. However, SoT was a massive return to form for them and Avowed looks super promising.
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TheGodfather07
Member
isnt avowed from obsidian? rare are doing everwild.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
Yeah Everwild, good catch.
kingfey
Banned
JoeBudden
Member
This guy was the problem.
Isn't he responsible for the 360 era and classics like Halo 1-3, Fable, etc?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not responsible, but he was in a VP position at that time. He was given a promotion and is basically one of the key people behind the Xbox's push/focus on Kinect and the always-online mentality. The Xbox One's original reveal and launch stuff is mostly credited to him, including the focus on media and the always online connectivity which almost ended up tanking the entire Xbox division as a whole.
And the irony is that originally he didn't even want to entertain the thoughts of a Microsoft console:
And let's not forget this gem which almost destroyed the entire Xbox One launch single handed:
Ghost of Caelid
Banned
Everybody used to be more active in studio output. It's a useless argument. Games are far more complex and difficult to make these days. You need huge teams, huge budgets and a lot of time to create AAA games now. Back when Rare was with Nintendo, they would have been able to churn out ten games per year with the amount of staff they have now.I don';t disagree with anything both of you said. But my point stands that RARE use to be more active in terms of studio output. ND though they are bloated at the moment have multiple Projects in the works. One is a remake, one is a new IP and one is the multiplayer component to Last of us part 2. Santa monic has a game releasing next year and a new IP they will show us sometime next year as well.
I hope everwild is a passion project for RARE and not a service game where they need to constantly have a good amount of people working on it all the time. I guess in terms of keeping the studio flush and in the black it is a good thing. But as someone who owns a Copy of Kameo, NUTTS and bolts, it's just sad when you look at what they use to be.
The fact another studio is making Perfect dark kind of blows my mind a little. But then again like I said people who made those games back then have long since left the studio.
We are talking about handling of studios. And honestly SOT seemed like it was RARE's last shot at being relevant.
Kinect sports though solid titles were just that solid kinnect games.
This falls under MS in how they pulled projects and had some really bad management practices with rare which from what I read is what caused a big divide in original people after viva-pinata, and kinect sports.
Pretty good read on what happened to RARE and how like many of you pointed out SOT kind of saved them or was their last chance to be honest.
Who saved Rare?
Eight years ago, Eurogamer printed the article 'Who killed Rare?'
Papacheeks
Banned
Avowed is a obsidian game?
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Due left MS years ago (what? 2013/14)...:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/assets/2865309/05-21Mattrick_Web.jpg)
Don Mattrick Xbox Microsoft
Our TVguy
It's 2021 now, and MS is only just realising this new focus on quality first-party software. Clearly, Mattrick wasn't the only problem.
kingfey
Banned
Rare released sea of thieves in 2017. Before that, they did kinetic. Don mattrick left 2014. So the issue is clearly Don's fault.
Because after Don left, Spencer took over. And rare released that game.
Kacho
Gold Member
I thought this was common knowledge? I'm still not convinced this is anything but vaporware and I have very little faith in today's Rare to deliver something great. I'd love the proven wrong though.google.
Everwild has reportedly been rebooted and won't release until 2023
Rare's follow-up to Sea of Thieves hasn’t seen the light of day since 2020www.gamesradar.com
Why wasn’t Everwild at E3? It’s been ‘completely rebooted’ | VGC
Sources suggest Rare is ‘starting from scratch’; studio confirms new creative director…
Not trying to be a dick manabyte but I wouldn't comment on these things if I Didn't know wtf I was talking about.
SportsFan581
Member
I don't know. Seems like they've released a bit more since 2002 than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_developed_by_Rare
It's a very beautiful, flowing art style. Hopefully they take their time and create an engaging game to go along with it.
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TheDreadLord
Member
Still, keeping a studio just because of its name or legacy does not make sense. It is not like these 100s of people will all be laid off. The professionals worth keeping are definitely used somewhere else.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
I'll just never understand how companies don't make games the Nintendo way. Get a fully functioning gameplay build in black and white with no emphasis on graphics. Make it fun. Then build a game from that, knowing that it works. Seems like tons of studios just make movies and artwork in their head and then try to figure out how to make their artwork playable.
ProgenitorCastle
Banned
Good guy Microsoft feeling dat remorse
I like it though, shows that they're a different company now than when they made those original moves
I like it though, shows that they're a different company now than when they made those original moves
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I agree, but I dont think that would be the case with studios aquired by Microsoft in the first place.
kanjobazooie
Mouse Ball Fetishist
You're talking about the Free Radical guys? They were just a few folk from the Goldeneye team.
The Stampers, Chris Seavor, Steve Mayles, etc all left Rare in the late 00s.
Gregg Mayles (lead designer/director of Donkey Kong Country and Banjo-Kazooie) is still at Rare today. There are also a few other N64-era guys still at the studio.
BbMajor7th
Member
I think this entered pre-production back in around 2017, I only know because the studio were looking for writers at the time and someone put me forward for it. I never applied because I didn't want to relocate (their offices are based in the Midlands in the UK) but the pitch I was sent at the time is a fair match.
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I don';t disagree with anything both of you said. But my point stands that RARE use to be more active in terms of studio output. ND though they are bloated at the moment have multiple Projects in the works. One is a remake, one is a new IP and one is the multiplayer component to Last of us part 2. Santa monic has a game releasing next year and a new IP they will show us sometime next year as well.
I hope everwild is a passion project for RARE and not a service game where they need to constantly have a good amount of people working on it all the time. I guess in terms of keeping the studio flush and in the black it is a good thing. But as someone who owns a Copy of Kameo, NUTTS and bolts, it's just sad when you look at what they use to be.
The fact another studio is making Perfect dark kind of blows my mind a little. But then again like I said people who made those games back then have long since left the studio.
We are talking about handling of studios. And honestly SOT seemed like it was RARE's last shot at being relevant.
Kinect sports though solid titles were just that solid kinnect games.
This falls under MS in how they pulled projects and had some really bad management practices with rare which from what I read is what caused a big divide in original people after viva-pinata, and kinect sports.
Pretty good read on what happened to RARE and how like many of you pointed out SOT kind of saved them or was their last chance to be honest.
Who saved Rare?
Eight years ago, Eurogamer printed the article 'Who killed Rare?'
When a studio is making what they want and love to make, and repeatedly reiterated that, it’s weird of you to say it’s ‘sad’ simply because they don’t make their old mascot platformers anymore.
In a thread about MS learning to let studios do what they want and what they’re good at, you seem to want MS to force them to make more platformers. Why?
Papacheeks
Banned
Perfect dark is not a platformer.
And they had a lot of cool Projects back in the day that were not even platformers and shooters that were canned and never saw the light of day.
When Microsoft got them, I think a lot of them were already deflated by Nintendo's grip on controlling what projects got made. But MS did something similar back in the day, and gave incentives if you were making a game for Kinect.